Forum Post: What Is MISSING? In The Gun Debate?
Posted 11 years ago on Jan. 20, 2013, 3:30 a.m. EST by KevinPotts
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What Is MISSING? In The Gun Debate?
"Okay, so (Obama) is finally trying to ban assault rifles and high-capacity-ammo clips (Good. I‘m glad. That needs to happen.), but this totally ignores and overshadows the fact that rifles only account for 3 percent of annual gun-related-deaths in America, while it is actually Hand-Guns that should be the main issue (47 percent of all murders in the U.S. are committed with handguns) and the fact that almost-every-irresponsible-dumb-ass-and-their-momma-in-the-entire-country can purchase and own guns without any required training or psychological evaluation whatsoever."
-KevinPotts
Concerning The 2nd Amendment:
“The amendment seems to have been written to allow the states to check the power of the federal government by maintaining their militias. Given the changes that have occurred in our military, and even in our politics, the idea that a few pistols and an AR 15 in every home constitutes a necessary bulwark against totalitarianism is fairly ridiculous. If you believe that the armed forces of the United States might one day come for you—and you think your cache of small arms will suffice to defend you if they do—I’ve got a black helicopter to sell you.” -Sam Harris
http://www.samharris.org/blog/item/the-riddle-of-the-gun
I also found this article to be quite interesting concerning the 2nd Amendment and have never even heard of this issue brought up before: ‘The Second Amendment was Ratified to Preserve Slavery’ http://truth-out.org/news/item/13890-the-second-amendment-was-ratified-to-preserve-slavery
to answer your question in the title - logic
None of the proposals will result in lower gun crime because none of the key factors are mentioned in the debate on how to reduce gun crimes.
Poverty is never mentioned.
Creating forms of opportunity are not mentioned.
Hand guns are not mentioned even though they are involved in the overwhelming majority of gun crimes because they can easily be hidden.
Legalizing and regulating drugs is never mentioned.
Since this debate doesn't address real contributing factors to gun violence, it is obvious it is nothing more than a distraction from real issues. It riles up republicans and gun advocates who love to be riled up, and satisfies democrats who feel like they finally might a have a legislative victory, even if it's really just a farce that will not reduce gun crime.
Fuck the System. thank you for posting this.,..
Modern globalization, Coupled with condemnations, Unnecessary death, Matador corporations, Puppeting your frustrations, With the blinded flag!
Manufacturing consent is the name of the game, The bottom line is money, Nobody gives a fuck.
4000 hungry children leave us per hour, From starvation, While billions are spent on bombs, Creating death showers.
Boom, boom, boom, boom, Every time you drop the bomb, You kill the God your child has born
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7l60b6LqfLk
Agreed.
One thing that's missing is a true understanding of what the Second Amendment was about: Slavery, So, let's cut the crap about the second amendment.http://pleasedontvomitinthetaxi.blogspot.com/2012/12/lets-cut-crap-about-second-amendment.html
Urgency?
I mean gun violence is only a symptom of the ills of society after all.
Such as :
1 - Influenced government
2 - CorpoRAT goal
Their image of the future
3 - Consider the facts around the country around the world - you should then agree.
4 - if left as is - Wash-up time for breakfast - aw ma do I have ta?
Since the same-sex "debate", and the right-to-life "debate" are failing to raise any eyebrows these days, there comes a time for more divisive measures to keep the plebs occupied on fabricated dramas, so that the real machinations of the one percenters don't get so much attention.
Next question?
Good point. In the US the Creel Commision was set up to manipulate the public in to WWI so that corporations wouldn't lose their investments according to Chris Hedges. The mechanism was to control people through emotions, since people react out of emotions not reason. ...And as you say, nothing ever seems to get done in public for the public. They are doing things under the radar. I guess we should be checking the Congressional Record as David Cay Johnston says. It is out there.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Committee_on_Public_Information
http://www.senate.gov/pagelayout/legislative/d_three_sections_with_teasers/congrecord.htm
http://thomas.loc.gov/home/r111query.html
http://memory.loc.gov/ammem/amlaw/lwcr.html
http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/browse/collection.action?collectionCode=CRED http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c113:H.J.+Res.+18: (Balance Budget Amendment to Constitution)
The use of propaganda in the media is widely known.
It surprises me that most people still fall for it.
And then there's this one; "If you are going to lie, make it such a huge lie, that most people would doubt that it could be untrue."
Yeah, I think that what we saw in the theater after 9-11. Actually it is still going on...
obama is their big lie.
We've come to accept that the prez is just for the press.
The real story happens behind closed doors.
Exactly
No closed door is a good plan to be truly transparent meetings should be seen and heard by all those interested.
bush was attacked by the press day after day for 8 years.obama has never been vetted,............ the msm covers for him. valjar is the real president.
Bush was too obvious in his criminality and connections.
All hat no cattle.
obama & co are a criminal organization.
An inheritance from shrub. Continuance with Rino/Dino/corpoRAtist help ummm roadblocks.
barry & co. are a criminal organization unto themselves.
The Drone war - I can't argue with that. Thank shrub for putting us there though.
You do know bush was a fraud and a puppet, right?
and your assesment of barry is?
Answering a question with a question? You first.
to answer your question, i dont think that bush was either a puppet or a fraud,............your turn............what is your assesment of barry?
if you truly believe that, then you should do some research.
Have you ever heard of TARP?
Did you know monetary policy is used to just print money for banks? 16 trillion in bailouts in 2007-2008. GAO Audit exposed it.
Have you heard about the massive levels of civilians being killed in these wars based on lies?
Have you heard David Petraeus on Meet the Press explain why we're actually in Afghanistan?
The corporate and banking coup fully took control of the presidency with Reagan. And they've continued ever since. That's what I think of Reagan, Bush, Clinton, Bush jr, Obama. The corporations and banks had a great pull and a lot of control since the early 1900's, but they mastered the craft in the 80's and wealth has been accelerated to the top at the expense of workers at an accelerating rate.
Have you heard of Manufacturing Consent?
May I suggest a book to you - American Fascists: The Christian Right and the War on America
the american fascist is obama
Capitalism is the real culprit actually.
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the only way for congress to stop the epa is to defund it. and they should.
False.
the epa is a rogue agency and should be dissolved.
Thanks for the public service announcement from fossil fuel. F'n idiot.
The EPA is under full control of the Congress. Your comment is 100% false.
Congress created the EPA. That is constitutional. The EPA is not beyond the powers of congress.
I think you're on the wrong website.
under the constitution, the epa is not allowed to make law, yet they do by calling them regulations.
That's like saying the post office can't determine rates on package sizes and stamps.
Congress created the EPA. That is constitutional. Also they are not beyond the powers of congress.
capitalism is a great system if allowed to work. the govt has screwed it up with laws ( epa regulations that are really law which they are not empowered to do so by the constitution)
Your suggestion is to just allow infinite pollution and that will save the economy?
Good one lol "Next question?" umm...How do we survive without jobs and food? I've been trying to figure that one out lately...and the only answer I keep coming up with is fairly simple but depressing: "We don't" lol
Good point. I'm more conversant with surviving in the wild than most people I know, and while it is possible to exist for weeks without sustenance, other than water, most people would panic without their daily fix of junk food.
Would there be looting and violence and murder? For sure. It doesn't take much for the thin veneer of civility to revert to barbarity, when hunger and provision for one's own family come to the fore.
Hence - violence in poverty.
Are Goanna good eating?
Yes, we call them Barneys.
I've been looking into the Primal diet, and giving that a go.
Also experimenting with Zeer refrigeration, which is still used in Africa, where there is no power.
Barneys? are the kids ok with that? I mean I am - ever catch part of a show? (shudder)
Looks like they carry a good load of meat.
City kids would rarely see a goanna these days.
The introduction of the cane toad wiped out most of the really large goanna species (the ones worth eating) and it is only in our remote northwest, and drier desert regions where the big barneys still get hunted as a food source.
The best "bush tucker" I've tried was a banded sea snake.
There's so many feral donkeys, goats, horses, camels, and buffalo in our tropics and deserts that starving to death would be difficult.
Careful harvesting that one.
Yeah and when they started logging in Mn - they thought that they would be able to do so forever. Amazing how fast things can disappear.
They used to cull the donkeys and camels, but I haven't heard of it happening for ages. There's also several species of deer, and most of our larger cattle stations are unfenced, so if TSHTF here, I'd be heading back to the Kimberley. Plentiful water, and lots of seafood as well.
Keep an eye on that desert region of yours - would not want to see that monster grow.
It's a harsh climate.
Not for everybody.
Remember boil dump the water on your fiddle-heads and then boil again.
People lets be careful out there.
THOSE WHO CAN – DO
THOSE WHO CAN’T - RANT
1►
learn as much as you can about the numbers that show the solutions
2►
demand a plan:
http://www.youtube.com/user/maigcoalition
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Za8SOVuGHs&list=UUu4Q7iE0z1Jw7yUjs56dvXA&index=1
alex jones – without his straight jacket!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_XZvMwcluEg&feature=endscreen&NR=1
3►
WRITE CONGRESS:
find your congresspeople
house:
http://www.house.gov/representatives/find/
senate:
http://www.senate.gov/reference/common/faq/How_to_contact_senators.htm
VP Joe Biden, Gun Panel, 1600 Pennsylvania Av, Washington DC 20006
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Dear ............................:
[ Y.O.U.R...I.N.T.R.O...H.E.R.E ]
While some people may want to confiscate guns, here is a much more feasible approach. It will not solve all gun problems, but it will
reduce the number of guns
and that will reduce the number of dangerous people who have access to guns - and isn't THAT our real goal?
My proposal - for a NATIONAL gun law for all guns & owners:
My four points are SIMPLY based on seeing a logical parallel between cars & guns.
Please consider advocating these four steps below to help America with our gun disasters:
1►
all gun owners must be licensed & tested with all guns they own and pass a written test.
2►
every year, you must prove that you have gun liability insurance &
be background checked and prove that your gun is properly locked when not used.
3►
as the owner of a gun, you are legally responsible for what is done with it.
4►
every gun must be registered and tested & a sample fired bullet stored by the police
additionally -
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Some real 2011 / 2012 gun statistics:
Americans own almost half of all civilian owned guns in the world.
Per 100,000: America: 88,880 guns owned ; 2.97 homicides Per 100,000
Per 100,000: England.…: 6,200 guns owned ; 0.07 homicides Per 100,000
Per 100,000: Austrailia: 15,000 guns owned ; 0.14 homicides Per 100,000
Per 100,000: Canada…: 30,800 guns owned ; 0.51 homicides Per 100,000
Per 100,000: France….: 31,000 guns owned ; 0.06 homicides Per 100,000
Per 100,000: Japan……..: 1,000 guns owned ; 0.08 homicides Per 100,000
Per 100,000: Israel……..: 7,300 guns owned ; 0.90 homicides Per 100,000
http://www.ons.gov.uk/ons/rel/crime-stats/crime-statistics/period-ending-march-2012/rft-annual-trend-and-demographic-tables-2011-12.xls
The above link is to England police statistics - see table D19
Is the nra & its trolls claiming that we will fail, where England & Australia succeeded in reducing gun deaths substantially by legislation?
Statistics clearly prove that the number of guns adds to the risk of homicides.
More complex is the effect of gun laws and restrictions.
When Australia had a massacre in 1996 when 35 people were killed, gun laws were substantially strengthened and a major buy-back was instituted.
There has not been an incident in Australia since then.
Of course, they did not have the benefit of the nra.
In 2011, there were 11,000+ gun homicides in America
In 2011, there were 35 gun deaths in England
For 2011, the average Murder Rate in Death Penalty States was 4.7,
while the average Murder Rate of States without the Death Penalty was 3.1
For 2011, the murder rates were highest in red state regions:
Per 100,000: South 5.5 Midwest 4.5 West 4.2 Northeast 3.9
VERY IMPORTANT:
The 1994 gun "ban" did NOT ban assault weapons.
It banned the MANUFACTURE of assault weapons.
Scalia - yes that Scalia - has ruled the AR15s are NOT “protected” by Article 2
LBJ proposed a gun plan similar to the above 4 point plan
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http://occupywallst.org/forum/anonymous-responds-to-obama-gun-control-policy/