Forum Post: What if we had PURE DEMOCRACY? Public referendum on all major issues.
Posted 12 years ago on Nov. 22, 2011, 10:36 p.m. EST by sunbird1
(10)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement
It seems to me that with the present state of computer technology and public internet access that it should be possible to move much closer to PURE Democracy (as opposed to Representative Democracy) than ever before. I believe historically representatives have been chosen/elected to represent the population because it was impractical or physically impossible to have everyone (millions of people ) show up at congress or town halls and voice their opinion on so many issues. However, with computer technology a safe, verifiable system could certainly be developed to allow the majority of the population to "vote from home" on all major issues. We could still have elected representatives (publicly financed) to work out details on legislation but they would have to answer to the public vote/referendum on the issues (which would be clear and legally binding unlike the opinion polls). We now have the technological means to take Democracy to a new level making everyone's voice count, why not utilize it?
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A pure democracy would still be rather slow, even given the current internet technology. It may surprise some, but there are still a lot of people in the United States that are not computer literate. Also, there would be no protection against the "tyranny of the majority." Aka, mob justice. Our representative democracy could work, but we need exert heavy control over how money is given to political candidates. My suggestion? Any donations to a political campaign are instead redirected into a public "pot" that will be evenly distributed among candidates that meet moral, intellectual, and work-related criteria.
Pure democracy? God forbid. How many dumb citizens who never read a bill would vote anyway because of what little they'd heard about it. Rather, I prefer our system of electing leaders to make all the laws so that every law can be carefully considered from many sides by the people who vote on them. This does not happen as well as it should, but it happens a lot better than it would if I had to read the entire tax code, vote on amending it or accepting it, etc.
--Knave Dave http://TheGreatRecession.info/blog
How would pure democracy have looked to Muslims around the time of 911? Not a good idea, I don't think.
Computer technology is neither safe nor verifiable. Security is not really one the Internet's outstanding achievements! And to add to that, there is no paper, so ultimately nothing is verifiable since it can easily be changed. Internet voting - or any electronic voting - is really not much different from writing up a contract in erasable ink.
All that being said, I think the Internet could be used for more public consultation. It's obvious the political parties don't reflect the public will in their election platforms, let alone their legislation and legislative debates. I see no reason why you couldn't have sessions of Congress streamed online with a comment section, and have the comment section on a gigantic screen dominating the floor, so it could never be ignored. Stuff like that.
Majority rules, fvck the minorities!! Whatever. You do not know what democracy truly is, our Founders did, and that's why we are a Constitutional Republic, not a democracy. They understood what Plato meant when he said, "Democracy passes into despotism".
http://occupywallst.org/forum/democracy-passes-into-despotism-plato/
These people are computer geeks and engineers that started an idea called Revolution 2.0 back in 2006 - Their idea restructures the government to where the people oversee the actions of the government – even overturn governments’ decisions when the majority deem it necessary – oversight is conducted through the V2 (internet version 2). They also create 2 new branches of government - The technology branch and the executive branch (the peoples' branch). The executive branch conducts oversight over ALL branches.
V2 - http://www.osixs.org/V2_Menu_V2.aspx.
It’s called a Direct Democracy. - http://www.osixs.org/Rev2_menu_commonsense.aspx
Overview:
Welcome to the beginning of the second American Revolution. The purpose is to educate and to move the United States and the rest of the world forward. We all know that something is terribly wrong with our country but we don't have a clue what to do about it. But we do know we cannot continue to sit around and do nothing. We are so confused, we don't realize how dangerous it is to continue voting for democrats and republicans. We've become mentally crippled and dependent on two parties and our current form of government. They can't help you. The best people to help the people are the people. Until you figure that out, you will remain lost. Welcome to the Revolution.
Revolution 2.0 is a revolution in ideas and technology along with a vision to move this country forward. Read common sense 3.1 and the rest of the pages on the menu. This will give you a clear understanding of what the problems are, what we need to do about them and most important, how to proceed by taking real action. Our government didn't create itself and it can't fix itself. Problems never solve themselves…
Common sense 3.1 is a call to action to address the problems of the nation. http://www.osixs.org/Rev2_menu_commonsense.aspx
The second bill of rights are the baseline expectations and goals for Revolution 2.0 http://www.osixs.org/Rev2_menu_billofrights.aspx
The Declaration of Dissolution and Termination (DDT) is a formal and legal declaration of grievances prepared by the people of the United States to be served to the government of the Untied States. The declaration is also a formal and legal order by the people to the government of the United States to cease and desist specific government operations in accordance with instructions laid down by the Execution of Dissolution and Termination. http://www.osixs.org/Rev2_menu_Intro_DT.aspx
The Execution of Dissolution and Termination (EDT) is the formal process and rules for dissolving parts or all of the old government and then terminating the old government after the new government has been fully implemented. http://www.osixs.org/Rev2_menu_Execution.aspx
What I do like about this movement, is that it gets the job done without violence. If violence breaks out; the government can and will impose martial law and the rest of your rights will be stripped from you. With your rights gone; your vote; your signature; and your opinion are irrelevant. With the frustration that is building in America; I can envision this possibility. Revolution 2.0 sidesteps this pitfall.
If you like what you see at this site; please vote here and let them know of your support: http://www.osixs.org/Vote.aspx
"We the people are the rightful masters of both Congress & the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution, but overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution." ~ Abraham Lincoln ~
the problem is with that is people outside the US can vote. Second, Bush had ties to Diebold voting machines, which led to beliefs in voter fraud. I personally think fraud is possible, and has been committed in various elections at local, state and federal levels. LBJ, maybe the best example, but the Florida decision of Gore and Bush changed the history of America.
True. Fraud would be an issue that would have to be overcome. The other option is have an "election day" once a month and vote on all the major issues with the existing voting system. Somehow the idea is to make public referendums a more central element of our Democracy.
You do know that involves people taking time off from work and waiting in long lines for those that live in large cities. Even if you could vote from your cell phone, it could still be compromised by hackers. Maybe biometrics would make a safe voting option, but what about those who think this is the mark of the beast
True democracy is not allowed with OWS in any shape or form, how could it work on a larger scale, when its not even allowed in a microcosm.
Just like the USA 'democracy' is just another urban-myth, just like OWS saying that "This is what democracy looks like", I think I'll quote the French, "NO what OWS is doing, is what USA's version of democracy looks like",
The french have another name for USA Democracy, they call it 'fascism'.
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If we had a pure democracy, every move the government makes would require them to stop and take a vote. I would get crazier than it is now. it is all our responsibility to know the candidate before voting. in today's politics though a few well placed Lobbiest with a hand full of dollars can take our reps out in an instant. I am by far not well versed on this but I hope I'm close.
Pure Democracy would not work for me. I would not like to live in a country where my fellow citizens could vote for things like "no Irish need apply".
But I do understand where you are coming from. With technology as advanced as it is, do we really need Congress as we know them to represent us any longer? And since their approval rating is only 9% perhaps it is time to phase them out.
IMO the completely useless and meaningless 2012 elections should be canceled and replaced by a NATION-WIDE REFERENDUM to overhaul the present, corrupt-to-the-core political system.
Such a referendum would IMO be VERY useful and meaningful. And the reason for demanding such a referendum would be that THE NATION IS IN A STATE OF CRISIS that threatens its very survival.
To me, that is THE DEMAND that OWS should focus on, and I think that the American people are so SICK of the two main parties that they would actually WELCOME the possibility of overhauling the whole corrupt system in order to start anew.
I have a feeling that a strong majority of Americans would vote "YES" in a "REFERENDUM FOR A NEW AMERICA".
Thomas Jefferson, our 3rd President, recommended "a revolution every twenty years" in order to adapt to changing times. I think we are more than a few revolutions behind...!
I am not voting in 2012, unless, by some miracle a real candidate comes forward.
TJ said:
When the representative body have lost the confidence of their constituents, when they have notoriously made sale of their most valuable rights, when they have assumed to themselves powers which the people never put into their hands, then indeed their continuing in office becomes dangerous to the State, and calls for an exercise of the power of dissolution. What country before ever existed a century and a half without a rebellion? And what country can preserve its liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance? Let them take arms. The remedy is to set them right as to facts, pardon and pacify them. What signify a few lives lost in a century or two? The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants. It is its natural manure.
I agree with most of what Jefferson says in that particular quote, especially the first sentence - considering that a recent poll suggests that only 9% of Americans still trust Congress.
But I doubt that in 2011 he would still recommend "Let them take arms". We have learned a lot over the past 200 years and realized that violent revolutions often end up changing nothing of substance.
And in 2011, there are an estimated 270,000,000 firearms in the U.S. It's very easy to start shooting - the tricky part is knowing HOW TO STOP.
That is why I for one am totally opposed to a violent overthrow but vigorously advocate a COMPLETE OVERHAUL, which should IMO be decided directly by "WE THE PEOPLE" in a nation-wide referendum. It would be an mazing exercise in direct democracy that would re-energize the nation.
Our deceitful Prez obviously CAN'T - or WON'T - but WE THE PEOPLE CAN!!!
I don't advocate violence and I don't think TJ did either. I do however feel that he thought freedom and the peoples' voice were worth fighting or even dieing for. There's also the idea that you must stress your point vehemently, to be taken seriously. If martial law is enacted against the people at some time in the future; and their rights are stripped from them; you may see widespread violence break out. At the point we're at now, non-violent actions, that still preserve the spirit of resistance, that constantly keep the attention on our cause and the discussion alive, will awaken more people.
The last time I posted that quote; I addressed the "Let them take arms" part. I suggested to replace it with " Let them take pens to paper" and vote here:
http://www.osixs.org/Vote.aspx
If the majority of the people want the change that would empower them to make decisions that affect their own destiny, the process could begin. Trusting our "rulers" to make the right decisions on our behalf anymore, is unrealistic. It will only get worse until we fix it.
Insist on a Direct Democracy
http://www.osixs.org/Rev2_menu_commonsense.aspx
“The issue today is the same as it has been throughout all history - whether man shall be allowed to govern himself or be ruled by the small elite."
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2011/08/01/1001662/-Icelands-On-going-Revolution