Forum Post: What Does the 1% Own?
Posted 13 years ago on Dec. 17, 2011, 7:47 p.m. EST by fansmiles
(24)
from New York, NY
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This net worth method of calculating who has wealth leaves out a critical factor that is largely self determined. You can have negative wealth just by having a mortgage. Most of middle class America has chosen loans as a way to get things now and pay over time. Mortgage, auto loans, credit card debt, if these are greater then your savings you most likely have a negative net worth.
A family with an income of $100,000 a year, with a mortgage, two cars, a kid in school, all the adult electronic accessories is not poor, but will probably have a negative net worth. It's not some rich guy's fault and he hasn't stolen anything from anyone. It may very well be that money someone else put in a bank that has financed that home, schooling, car, or overindulgent purchases.
This gives a false sense of how many people are actually poor. If you could convince government to take all the wealth form the 1%, it wouldn't be enough to pay for what government does and it wouldn't significantly change the negative net worth for all the homeowners in the middle class.
Ha! Well it works in Monopoly! LoL. Don't mind me I'm taking the piss, I spent part of this Sunday mortgaging property almost broke and won over the computer anyway. Bankrupt he went! Yes sir! He was OUT!
goobogly-gook
JPB950 thanks for the post, I agree for the most part.
Negative net worth is not a death blow, it is also not a good position to be in but people can live in that position as long as some outside actions come into play (cut in pay, loss of job, decisions to get out while the getting is good, etc).
I agree with you, most people in these positions got themselves into the positions without any help from anyone - then all of a sudden, they cannot get out of the positions without HELP from someone or some government program to bail them out - most of which end up failing them anyway.
It's not necessarily a bad position, I've never carried credit card debt, but my mortgage would have shown me with a negative net worth for probably three quarters of it's life. I always earned enough to make the payments and a drop in the housing market wouldn't have hurt in my case either. In spite of an income of around $55000, I had a negative net worth. I was never in poverty. It doesn't really even measure poverty so much as cash on hand.
In the case of many of the middle class we're using the money of the rich to finance our life. I willing enter into that agreement, I wanted the house and yard while my kids were young enough to enjoy it. If it makes someone more wealthy fine, it also helped me when I wanted the help.
That is the very point that needs to be made. This country has progressed to the point where it is today because we had the freedom to accumulate capital. Without that freedom, we would have long ago cut down every tree on the continent to build our individual log cabins. And plowed up every acre to raise our years' supply of food (if we were lucky enough to have land that would grow that food). And in rough times, we would have eaten every wild thing that we could have caught including all the spotted owls.
At the core of it, you do not understand fractional reserve banking.
This idea that you have borrowed money from "the rich" is foolish. The most of the money that recycles into CDO MBA bonds and thus to these residential loans comes from pension funds. 99%er pension funds.
It's not a take on the Monopoly game.
A simple community S&L is perfectly capable of making thousands of mortgage loans without involving a "The 1%" financier.
And if you really want to understand the mechanics of broad systemic recessions/depressions, read Richard Koo's book and have a go at his presentations of balance sheet macroeconomics to the bankers. This is brain work, not Randian Hollywoodesque fantasy.
I honestly don't care where the money comes from. Your 1% may be guilty of having an immoral level of greed. I've managed to live my own life and don't wish to be guilty of having an immoral level of envy. From what I see here neither side has much of a claim to the high ground.
I'm in favor of fixing the tax codes, removing deductions, taxing everyone enough to pay for what we, through government, want to do. The nations with the greatest economic equality also tax everyone more, even the poor.
If in the end the rich still have a lot of money, I just don't care, it isn't mine and never was. I refuse to join the greedy mob reaching for someone else's money.
"From each according to his ability...." That's simple social justice. The churches have been teaching versions of that for centuries, first applied to charity. Those who benefit from civilization the most really should contribute more than most.
Btw: the operation of companies changed, too. They pay less in dividends, more to pay off artificial debts from M&A actions. Free money from The Fed to the big banks was the engine behind those disasters.
Bad macroeconomic statistics. JPB950 needs an acquaintance with the real numbers. In fact, the whole country books at $55-trillion direct asset value.
In fact, our current economic morass - a.k.a. the Depression of 2008 - was not caused by "The 1%," per se, but by a tiny fraction who constitute a criminal class within "The 1%." These criminals stand to the whole of "The 1%" as the Murdoch Gang stand to the whole of top level journalism.
This criminal class stole a total of $7.3-trillion. They are thieves.
The numbers work out to $2.1-trillion in mortgage frauds, $1.6-TT in subprimes and 0.5-TT in primes. You can read the Martha Coakley civil filing against the five banks for the gist of it. One added bankster trick is pervasive entry of forged/inaccurate ARM text into MERS, which enabled dishonest claims for increased monthly payments from home buyers despite falling interest rates.
Another $5.2-trillion is tallied from scamming pension funds and investment pools. This is where no more than 200 investment professionals ran through the many hundreds of multi-billion dollar CDO scam-paper bribery-driven-"AAA" frauds and the "synthetic ownership" frauds covering what were in reality unsecured CDS insurance policies (a.k.a. "casino bets.")
Indeed a 27th Amendment to the Constitution enabling a small Wealth Tax would not pay for everything. Start at $10,000,000 net worth @ 0.1% tax and scale up to 2% above a billion net worth. Include all "family trusts" and other such scams. This still looks to bring in something on the order of $400-billion a year. That's $4-trillion a decade.
$4-trillion a decade would not solve everything.
At the least, however, a Wealth Tax militates against formation of massive hereditary anti-democracy holdings. That part matters.
why do you care?
We care because we are sick and tired of the ultra-rich people running the show and not giving a damn about the poor and middle-class folk!
"we" cant you speak for yourself?
So you want to take their money and give it to you?
Give me several good reasons why they (the ultra-rich) should care about the poor and middle-class folk when YOU evidently do not care about them.
If a CEO gets fired, or the company closes up, are YOU going to give a damn about that CEO. How many sympathy cards to you send to the Solar Plant CEO's big money guys in California?? Bet you threw a party when they lost their jobs. RIGHT??
because the suffering of this worlds children has gone on long enough- ows will end it.
OWS isn't going to help anything. It can't decide what it wants to do, wish they could.
You will end it with someone else's money and claim that you did it all by ourselves - this is the very evidence of greed that you think is so bad.
So you fed the homeless and yourselves for one day in November. How have you helped them since then.
You do not have the resources, the guts, or the intelligence to even discuss the world's suffering much less that of its' children. If you were all that concerned, you would be residing in a tent in Africa not in NYC.
For the total sum of $400.00 you can build (have built) a home in Africa for a family. HOW MANY have you built or had built in your name. Those children are still waiting, what is holding you up from doing what you preach in our post.
If it has not been at least ONE, rbubba, you need to quit bragging and get to work today - not at some future point. Just one home for one family - forget about ending anything - just one home for one family.
If you were really a person of your convictions - can you even imagine how many homes $500,000 of OWS donations could have built. But then that turkey dinner was probably more important to you guys. The publicity did leave a lasting impression (at least for the day and at the very least your belly was full.
The Federal Reserve "System" & Jewish Bankers
We all need to know the facts about who's behind the New World Order and who's responsible for the intentional destruction of the American Republic and the enslavement of its citizens. However, it's a mistake to react with anger towards Jews collectively. It's only the Illumiated boys at the top of the NWO pyramid who bear responsibility for the takeover agenda, and not everyone who call themselves a Jew. The Federal Reserve "System" & Jewish Bankers (Mar. 28, 2009)
http://www.rense.com/general85/feddrec.htm
The Federal Reserve - Jewish Private Bankers
JEWS CONTROL THE MONEY IN AMERICA. Period. End of story.
Jews own and run the Federal Reserve Bank that the US government continually borrows from...and is in debt to.
Napoleon said: When a government is dependent for money upon the bankers, they and not the government leaders control the nation. This is because the hand that gives is above the hand that takes. Financiers are without patriotism and without decency.
The Federal Reserve Bank is a consortium of 9 Jewish-owned & associated banks with the Rothschilds at the head:
$1. Rothschild Banks of London and Berlin.
$2. Lazard Brothers Banks of Paris.
$3. Israel Moses Seif Banks of Italy.
$4. Warburg Bank of Hamburg and Amsterdam.
$5. Lehman Brothers of NY.
$6. Kuhn, Loeb Bank of NY (Now Shearson American Express).
$7. Goldman, Sachs of NY.
$8. National Bank of Commerce NY/Morgan Guaranty Trust (J. P. Morgan Bank - Equitable Life - Levi P. Morton are principal shareholders).
$9. Hanover Trust of NY (William and David Rockefeller & Chase National Bank NY are principal shareholders).
TIME LINE OF THE JEW-OWNED FEDERAL RESERVE BANK
1791-1811: Rothschilds' First Bank of the United States.
1816-1836: Rothschilds' Second Bank of the United States.
1837-1862: Free Banking Era - no formal Central Bank through the efforts of President Andrew Jackson.
1862-1913: System of National Banks through the efforts of President Andrew Jackson.
1913-Current: Federal Reserve Act effects a consortium of privately held Jewish & associated banks called the Federal Reserve Bank. The largest shareholders of the Federal Reserve Bank are the Rothschilds of London holding 57% of the stock which is not available for public trading.
On May 23 1933, Congressman Louis T. McFadden brought impeachment charges against the members of the Federal Reserve Bank. A smear campaign against McFadden ensued and he was poisoned 3 years later.
JEWS RUN THE BOARD OF GOVERNORS OF THE FEDERAL RESERVE BANK
Here are the Jews that control the government of America:
1) Ben Shalom Bernanke: Chairman of the Board of Governors of Federal Reserve. Term ends 2020.
2) Donald L. Kohn: Vice Chairman of the Board of Governors of Federal Reserve. Term ends 2016.
3) Randall S. Kroszner: Member of Board of Governors of Federal Reserve.
4) Frederic S. Mishkin: Member of Board of Governors of Federal Reserve. Term ends 2014.
5) Alan Greenspan: Advisor to Board of Governors of Federal Reserve. Recent Chairman.
HOW THE FEDERAL RESERVE BANK WORKS
JEWISH BANKERS PRINT MONEY at heavily-armed & guarded Federal Reserve Bank buildings throughout the US. Then these Jewish bankers of the Federal Reserve Bank loan the money to the US government at interest.
Since the Federal Reserve Bank is privately owned, the Federal Reserve Bank of New York (and all the others) is listed in Dun & Bradstreet. But according to Article I, Section 8 of the U. S. Constitution, only Congress has the right to issue money and regulate its value.
Thus it is illegal for private interests to issue US money. But because influential Jews like Paul Warburg and Jacob Schiff bribed into enactment the Federal Reserve Act of 1913, the stockholders of the Federal Reserve Bank were to be kept a secret. Only recently have the Jewish stockholders of the Federal Reserve Bank come to light.
International cooperation with the Jew-owned Federal Reserve Bank has been intense to coordinate currency. In 1985, officials from the JP Morgan Bank of NY met with the Credit Lyonnais Bank of France. They established the European Currency Unit Banking Association (ECUBA) to get world cooperation for a unified currency.
In October 1987, the Association for the Monetary Union of Europe (AMUE), secretly met and recommended that the ECU (European Currency Unit) replace existing national currencies and that all European Central Banks be combined into one and issue the ECU as the official unified currency. This occurred in 1999 with the issuing of the Euro.
The plan of the international Jewish banking cabal is to have only 3 central banks in the world: The Federal Reserve Bank, the European Central Bank, and the Central Bank of Japan. All of these banks are headed by the Rothschilds.
And Next To Come Will Be The One World Government Run By Anti-Christian Jews.
Read the source article from Real Jew News with links here. http://www.realjewnews.com/?p=177
Related Articles
Pick-Pocketing the People: The ruling elite planned the global economic downturn. They timed the implementation and orchestration while controlling media coverage of it. http://thomaspainereturns.blogspot.com/2009/03/pick-pocketing-people.html
The Takeover of America, Republic Becomes Oligarchy: America has become an oligarchy (a government ruled by a powerful few) versus a Republic (a government limited by law) as the banking and Wall Street Masters of the Universe continue their tyranny. http://blogs.salon.com/0002255/2009/03/23.html
P.S. Hey, we have to be slaves and not complain about it. Otherwise we'd be "anti-Semitic." It's "anti-Semitic" to notice what's happening and who's in charge, and it's "anti-Semitic" to complain about it. The FEMA camps will be full of "anti-Semites" otherwise known as "terrorists."
The Talmud scripture Understand the way they think and you realize that the FEDERAL RESERVE HAS NO PROBLEM WITH LIEING, CHEATING AND STEALING FROM THE CITIZENS OF THE WORLD. "To communicate anything to a non-Jew about our religious relations would be equal to the killing of all Jews, for if the non-Jew knew what we teach about them they would kill us openly." -Libbre David 37
DroppinScience
Thanks for the post. I will not react at this time. Since this is an open post, I have copied it and sent it to a couple of connections that I have in DC and other areas and once I get their reactions, I will be better capable of a reply. A lot of information to dissect first.
[Removed]
Consumable wealth for living expenditures must be limited. The richest person can consume only 20 times the poorest. Wealth which is spend for consumption should be redistributed. Bill Gates, Obama can only consume 20X when a janitor consumes 2X, safety net is 1X which is enough for shelter, food, health, education. If you want more than that, want a car, and travelling, you should be working to earn more than 1X, anybody who can work should get at least 2X which can lead to home ownership if spend wisely. Safety net, 1X, should allow people to grow intellectually so they can still give back to society however they like. Everybody owes to society all the time. Personal consumption can not go over 20X, because if you build a mansion, you rule, and we are no longer equal politically. Your wealth and economic power will give you connections and political power. Society invests in social, economic, politic infrastructure, create more social and humane contract for society. Bill Gates can spend 20X a year, and can have as much investment money as possible. Nobody can have a chunk of this world, the world is holly and precious. The most productive, talented and hard worker can earn 20X max, when a burger guy earns 2X, and unfortunate can have safety net of X. People do science and contribute to society based on love for humanity, justice, truth, knowledge. The system is same because Bill Gates can have unlimited resources but can only consume 20X, so his home is maximum 20 times larger than a burger guy's home. We owe our lives to every living creature who existed, suffered through time through existence, we owe ourselves to other human being who creates the gene pool, the society and the possibility of existence of us. We owe our lives to all other people around the world. We can not become kings and queens through corrupt organizations such as states. States are for to level the field, to bring justice and equality. State can not become center of power. It will be corrupted. One simple legislation can bring you this new world which will transform your lives and the world. Economic system will be more productive. What do you say?
Literally about half the wealth of the nation,
50% of wealth, you, your mom and dad, your house, the world, your girlfriend, your boyfriend.
What do the 5% own?
If you have time, please take a look at my link about Toshiba and Enterprise Rent-A-Car. I think they actually deserve occupation, but you can be the judge.
http://occupywallst.org/forum/make-a-stand-join-the-clan/
A brief list:
The President of the United States The US Senate The US Congress The US House of Representatives
Obviously the list goes on, but there's a start...
Sociologist William Domhoff illustrates this wealth disparity using 2007 figures where the top 1 percent owned 42 percent of the country’s financial wealth (total net worth minus the value of one’s home). How much does the bottom 80 percent own? Only 7 percent.
not only do they own 42% of the wealth- they also own all of us.
Of course they own us. We insist of living like the government, way beyond our means. Borrowing to get things and then owing more then we earn.
Very good point JenLynn
They, whom ever that may be, did not buy us, we sold ourselves to them.
And I very much expect that they would want to get rid of us just as we want to get rid of them. The proof is in the pudding - why else do you see robots in the workplace self checkout lines, and why are jobs outsourced overseas - they are getting rid of us and all the baggage that we bring into the workplace. Now they get the work done, do not have to put up with an employee not showing up, being drunk or drugged up, cutting work corners, having to be supervised and policed, they don't steel from the company, etc etc.
Man - they got it going on AND all we do is complain because they figured it out and we didn't (and for the most part still have no clue).
Those jobs are not being outsourced merely because the Chinese work cheaper per hour than the equivalent American worker. If you have ever supervised even one worker - you know that the real reasons for outsourcing are many and cannot be boiled down to salary alone. I would love to run a 1M$ per year company with NO EMPLOYEES at all. I would franchise that sucker all over the country and make WalMart look like a real sucker for having their millions of employees.
Perhaps this would be the appropriate time for us to take a deep breath, take a step back and face the fact that companies may "own us" but realize that they are getting rid of us (selling us off, if you will) like falling stock as fast as they can.
The hidden costs of having one employee now are almost equivalent in one form or another, to 50% of the wages actually paid to that employee. You would outsource too if you have to make that choice. Why give your son or daughter an allowance of 150% of what you said you would give them. Why bet on the next football game if the loser has to pay 150% of the bet to the winner.
Well said - if we don't get political influence back into the hands of the average American, our children will become the 21st century equivalent to the medieval "landless peasant."
I'm all in favor of getting political influence back. I just haven't been able to convince anyone that occupy should run candidates for office to do that.
Excuse the comparison here but:
Based on my personal observations, OWS has about as much to pick from as does the Republican Party.
They don't even try though that's the sad part. All this talk about change they ant someone to do, but they don't seem to want to even try to do anything constructive themselves.
JenLynn - good morning.
May I explain where I see this issue:
A good example of this would be the recent "farmers" movement. The way I understand the plans, there were to be thousands of farmers there, with speeches by noted people from all over the world, and it would be a movement to end all movements providing food to the world. I cannot even locate one person that attended or one article about this unparalled event. Did the MOMENT pass and I missed the outcome of the whole thing. I spent 19 years on a farm, I really wanted to know what happened - how the farmers are thinking today - sadly, I guess I missed the MOMENT.
Oh well, maybe there will be an Occupy-Plumbers and I can learn how to install a toilet - if I don't miss that MOMENT too.
So the demonstration du jour thing I see on here is sort of everyone trying to grab a little bit of fame for themselves? I guess that's why there is no real progress, some lady on a post called it herding cats, everyone going in different directions. Too bad, it's such a waste of effort.
Who can live for the MOMENT and not waste their time? These people are not unique - if you have teenagers at home or in your family - you see this exercised daily - look at a baby and you see it perfected by the MOMENT - the baby cries-he gets food, the baby cries-he gets his diaper changed.
Think how this applies to everyone. Do you remember being a baby? At what age did you start remembering things that were not of the MOMENT. Even you DO NOT remember the most critical event and the most tramatic MOMENT of time of your entire life to this very time - your birth.
It is unfortunate. But it looks like this is what this leaderless group is all about - their chosen approach to problems is like herding cats, and the greater threat is that without leadership - a group such as this is wide open to get leaders and that is NOT going to be the type of leaders that they WANT or in their case DO NOT WANT.
If this movement does continue and it does become more aggressive or even violent , it will be because of their leaders whether the LEAD will recognize them or not - since the LEAD are only involved in the MOMENT and are therefore as gullible as any human on the planet can be.
I am in my 60's - can you imagine how out of place I would look as a protester at one of these OCCUPY sites. Yes, there are some people of age in attendance - but what is your real opinion of them. In all honesty, I would expect that you would say they really look very out of place and are in fact, trying to merely create or RECREATE their MOMENT.
We own them with our own hands. If we're made to believe they own everything, say they have all the titles to prove it in the future, then we could turn the guns we rent on them. Say paper money loses its value and they own all the gold. We could choose not to believe in some shiny metal, but instead the currency we believe, print and exchange.
The sheer enormity in that possible future confines the outnumbered to actions that don't bring it to fruition.
Hey orz - good morning.
Looks like you are getting a little excited about something but I cannot quite get your point. I think that a referece there might help you clarify your points but you will have to do the research on it.
There is a country in Africa - Zim...... something of other that followed your very plan - you can actually get a 100 million dollar paper bill there now, think about it - you would be a millionaire instantly and you could carry it all in your shirt pocket. It would only be good for 90 days however, because that is how often they have to reprint their currency to keep it up to date with its actual value.
Not easy reading - but you need to look it up - it will explain the entire point you are trying to make.
It's a realist thought experiment.
Hyperinflation isn't demonstrably necessary.
nite
Hey jrbubba - could you help us out here a little. Please explain what "financial wealth" consists of. What are we talking about (gold bars, cash, stocks, wool suits, furniture, piles of rocks, what the h__ is this thing that Mr Domhoff identifies the 42 as having).
These posts waste a whole lot of everyone's time by beating around the bush all the time. For all I know that financial wealth may be something that I want no part of and I could only wish that the 42% had it all.
I grew up on a farm. A load of chicken manure was financial wealth to us. At least we didn't have to purchase commercial fertilizer for that field that year.
The word "wealth" somehow has become the buzz word around here and it looks like you might be playing the buzz game on all of us.
Do you want to explain??
Good post - thanks! One things for sure - they have our politicians bought and paid for on both the right and the left. We need to GET THE MONEY OUT! Support the Campaign Finance Reform and ending Corporate Person-hood initiatives! They are the key to getting our country back!
Thank you LSN45 for your thoughtful post. I think we need to get the money out also - and we need for our government to put their hands back into their own pockets - not hold them out to be filled by the corporations, and not putting them into someone else's pocket (taxpayers).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EewGMBOB4Gg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Z9WVZddH9w