Forum Post: what brought you here?
Posted 12 years ago on Nov. 29, 2011, 12:10 p.m. EST by theos32
(17)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement
I'm just curious as to what happened in your life to make you come here and join OWS... what makes you think you've been wronged by "the 1%"? We all have different stories, and we all want different things.... which is part of the beauty of OWS and also its challenge
I wanted to learn more about this movement. I see it as a great platform to quickly share ideas -- on all levels. Those that resonate with us, will succeed, and those that do not, will pass. I do not feel wronged by anyone. Neither the 1% or the 99%. I see my brothers and sisters joined because they perceive a relative imbalance with our way of life. This is as much a group movement as it is an individual one. I am here to help go beyond the old view.
Education opened my eyes. I then saw how corporate interests had burrowed into every aspect of our government. I watched a president send our people to a war that was fabricated, and change his story as often as a newborns diaper gets changed in order to maintain it. I saw so many of our people cheer the loss of our freedoms for a sense of false security, while calling those who disagreed traitors. I saw the list of foreclosures grow to pages in the legal notices while the banks received more money than we could afford to give them. I saw a significant portion of the middle class wage their own war on the poor, at the behest of the wealthy and the government taking help from the poor just to turn it over to those who have more than they need for many lifetimes.
I felt like i was alone in my perspective of the wrongs. Then I saw a group of brave young souls gather together in a park...
That sounds about right though I lump the lower middle class and the poor together. You can work for a slave wage and have every last nicked and dime out of you or you can be unemployed and hope you are eligible for some social assistance. Either way you end up broke. Whether or not one believes in OWS, I hope it has at least brought the problems to their attention and made them consider what actions they must take.
I said in anothr thread that I came here because I felt it is a place where people can exchange ideas without the nastiness of the "outside" world. That's certainly one reason. I consider myself a part of OWS for the most obvious reason -- I feel that the "proprietors" and investors have far, far too much power and the common person has none. It's time we take back the power of the common person in peaceful, democratic ways before it turns to violence.
The wrongs of the One Percent, in my eyes, are not against me, per se, they are against the good of the people. Greed, elistism, self-srving classism -- all those and more are, in my mind, crimes against the common person. When you ahve 15% unemployment (as we do in my state) becaue someone (or someones) crave more profit and bigger bonuses, that, to me, is a crime against humanity as well.
As to what I want -- that is, as you say, far different than probably anyone else here. I am (as I all it) a Social Monarchist. I beleive that the Celtic version of monarchy (rather than the Medieval form) is the better form of government (to be explained later). I also beleive that socialism -- NOT to be confused with communism as the rightist propaganda would have one believe -- is the fairest form of society.
The Celtic tribes had Chieftans - kings, if you will -- which served for life (served being the operative word here) OR until the tribe (clan) lost confidence in him or her. At that time, a council of elders -- all those who had attained adulthood -- would be convened and, if they so declared, the Chieftan would be required to abdicate and a new one chosen by various means, depending on the Clan, and, yes, combat was one of the ways (but it doesn't have to be). The chieftan had a council and what amounted to a Prime Minister (Druid) who advised him or her and to whom she or he was directly responsible.
The reason I feel this is a better form of government is because it is stable. When you change governments every two-eight years, depending on which election you choose, there is no stability, as we have seen over the past 20 or so years. One thing we need if we are going to pull ourselves out of the economic mess we're in is someone who is going to be in place for a long period of time to oversee the changes to be made. And it will take longer than eight years to get it done.
I'm here because I believe OWS has the chance to do great things but I see it falling apart at the seams because it has no direction and no real goal. I wanted to help by getting people to focus on a single issue... but it seems like everyone has their own agenda and can't agree. If this continues nothing will come of OWS and we'll be forgotten.
whoes the bigger fool? The fool or the one that argues with the fool ?
I first was a member of tea party because change is important and came to Occupy when I saw it had many of the same objectives as Tea Party. In the beginning, Occupy had one message that was very peaceful. I went to our local camp and was there for 5 weeks, believing in Occupy's purpose. Until we ourselves closed our own local occupy camp down when occupy's messages and actions got too violent with 1st Oakland. But I remained officially in Occupy to keep espousing peace. Not just 'non-violence' and no bloodshed, but truly peaceful protests, as in protests that do not disrupt the peace.
As Occupy's official messages and literature and slogans have gotten more and more violent and the protests more and more confrontational and antagonistic, I now find myself trying to remember Occupy at its beginnings. Because it has changed and not for the better. Livestreams show hate and anger, there are unseen leaders who post calls to action that hurt the little guy (call to block all california ports on 12/12, the nazi-like occupy of museums etc) and Occupy rationalizes its ok to the hurt little guy, the real 99 because a) big corporations hurt the little people more so its ok if Occupy does b) the rest of america can't think for itself, so Occupy has to hurt them to get them thinking. Both are disturbing. Now Occupy's official tagline reads 'The Only Solution is World Revolution' a violent and bloody message posted on its front page. Even while Occupy whispers peace, it screams for blood. And as time passed, it now openly declares it wants to destroy. So I couldn't be part of that agenda. Im still here as an experienced participant and was a proud member of occupy when it was peaceful, but no longer a supporter. Im just trying to mitigate the violent side and lobby for a peaceful change. Change doesn't have to include destruction. It just has to be change for the better.
Toshiba!
http://occupywallst.org/forum/make-a-stand-join-the-clan/
The Revolution starts here!
I want to understand EXACTLY what Occupy Wall Street is trying to do. The only thing I have seen, because I'm too busy to pay attention, is the vague sense that 1% of America's population owns an overwhelming majority of America's wealth, and that this was gotten immorally.
I have a few links to a few statements, but what I REALLY want is to know what is the absolutely most perfect embodiment of the feelings and desires that the Occupiers all share.
I get the general sense that Occupy is such a new movement that no one really knows what exactly every one shares in common, except for the vague sense that something is wrong.
I wanted to see how losers collectively think. You all didn't fail me. Thanks for the entertainment! I'm sorry to see your bowel movement is over.
I believe that those who are in positions of power and great wealth also have a mental dis-ease. Their path will always lead us all toward great depressions and great wars for their own need for greed.
I think that there is a form of insanity connected to the people who are driven toward a quest for excessive wealth or power. It takes them a generation or two to regroup after the last time they brought the world down but they continue to do it and it seems like a pattern repeated throughout history.
So, I support the 99% because the 1% needs an intervention before they drag us all into a world war, again.
You are correct, randart, in your assumption of the wealthy leading us into more depression and war. Recession and depression are great opportunities for the rich -- many of the smaller, weaker competitors fold or sell out and the rich, like predators, await that demise eagerly. At the same time, people become so desperate for work that they are willing to suffer any indignity and poverty just to be able to put food on the table -- which, by the way, is the same reason the wealthy hate social safety nets -- it deprives them of the chance to sweep up desperate people as wage slaves.
There seems to be a kind of cult mentality there. Any activity that would be considered unacceptable on an individual basis is justified when it is a part of the larger "cult".
" wronged by "the 1%"? excuse me? America has been wronged by the corporations and reaganomics. with corporate greed. with the complete control of our government and our economy by corporations. that's what we've been wronged by. what kind of stupid question is that? I think you are just a troll baiting. hit the road pal...
And who do you really think truly owns the corporations? Certainly not the 99%. Those who own the corporations own the country.
right on! exactly.
If you hate the corporations why do you still buy their things? And second how has the corporations scared you? They didn't cause your debt or make you drop out of High School.
really? you know all about me? I don't have debt and I didn't drop out of high school. should I just take a bath and go get a job? oh, wait, I have a job finally. you are BUSTED. you are a troll.
you never answered his question. what did corporations do to you?
It may be hard for those who are self-engrossed to understand, but not everyone needs to have a wrong done direectly to them in order to oppose the wrongdoer.
Last I checked they create jobs. They work 24/7 to keep their business going and some even commit suicide (suicide is high in the rich and especially CEO and CFO). Last i checked they are what keeps china from totally owning some industries,(although I am not anti-China)
where have you been? its not about me. its what they've done to America. really... where the fuck have you been? where? no, I mean really... WHERE? what planet? what alternate parallel universe? your question suggests that you are insulated and isolated to the suffering around you and that you really don't give a fuck.
tulcak, don't let people like this wind you up -- it's what they want, in too many cases. State your point and, if the receiver chooses not to understand, it's really that person's problem -- not ours.
I am a patriot and want to preserve the values upon which this nation was founded. To do this, I must openly and actively oppose policies that breed the paradigm of socialism for the rich and capitalism for the poor.
I find your classification interesting. Could you explain further -- perhaps in a message to me if not ehre -- how you define socialism for the rich? capitalism for the poor is pretty self-explanatory, but I am interested in knowing why you feel the rich have socialism.
OWS is just one small branch of a, much larger tree- where the human family of the whole world, has decided to stand up - against their oppressors. -- first we wnet after the dictators that the usa and other western powers - put there to control us- now we are going after the dragon herself-
training web page http://url2it.com/jsne thrasymaque
me? I've been waiting a long time for this day . . . .
Do you not have a deep seated yearning for truth? for Justice?
if not then you have not been paying attention . . .
I'd like to see OWS succeed and I have ideas on how they can do so, but every time I suggest anything people either react in a negative way by calling my idea stupid, or more often than not they simply start marketing their idea instead... it's like we can't get behind anything.
no you dont' and you are not one of "we". the idea of the Occupy movement is crystal clear. you don't get it because you aren't behind the movement. you have ulterior motives. you're a troll.
You keep right on suggesting -- those who matter will listen; those who discard them without consideration or intelligent discussion are probably too narrow minded to understand anyway.
As far as others offering their ideas, my suggestion is to take them as you would have them take yours -- as a learning experience and a way to improve upon what everyone is thinking.
There is no one person who has all the answers or can think of all the great ideas -- it takes everyone, the good, the bad, the stupid, the smart, the silly and the serious -- to come up with greatness. Accept as you would be accepted.
But whatever you do, do not let others intimidate you from speaking your mind.
Reason would tell us that some ideas are better than others. Here's one of the best I've seen. Please come back with a better one if you can.
https://sites.google.com/site/the99percentdeclaration/
The one problem I see is, we don't seem to be able to get 536 people in Congress (including the Senate and White House, to come to any sort of consensus. Judging from the diversity of comments and perspectives stated here, I don't see it happening with twice the number of delegates.
As far as forming a policitcal party, I see the same problem. There are conservatives as well as liberals and moderates who are staunch members of OWS. How will they be properly represented by a single political party?
I think, as other have suggested, our best and most effective action is economic activism; stop supporting the corporate machine; stop giving the one percent our money; Shop local, shop thrft, shop no more than we have to, become as self-sufficient as you can and kill consumerism to kill the giant corporation.
Before we affect change in society, we have to confront the changes we need to make in ourselves (to spin off of Gandhi). That is the major part of my solution to the problem. If we don't like the gamne being played, take our ball and start one of our own.
Occupying Wall Street instead of Washington has led many to think that large corporations that are to big to fail are the evil-doers so attacking them is the key to changing the world. Economic warfare, us vs them. Now, in the 2010's, in a highly individualistic society, with so many struggling for survival, any personal changes we make in our spending habits will never have a lot of global impact.
Rejecting the idea of affecting change by seizing control of the legislative powers, that we have given consent to rule us, is naive. As George Carlin said, the game is rigged. The corporate structures can do immense good and immense evil so when the laws allow them to privatize profits and socialize losses, the impacts in our everyday lives are immense. The culture that develops in this stressed environment is one of polarization, escapism, and violence. The mass media tells us "Life's good. Shut up. Have a Coke."
The beauty of the OWS/ We Are The 99% movement is that it poses a clear and present danger to TPTB. Everyone is starting to realize that greed and corruption have left 99% of the people in slavery of one type or another because we have to obey the laws. And now the law is undermining the constitution so that even speaking out makes you a terrorist. The slaves live impoverished lives in constant fear. The corporations have carte blanche as long as people accept the political status quo, believing as you do that what you see in congress and here is all there is to see.
You, my friend, have been hoodwinked, or worse.
"I still cling to Hope, and I believe in Love, and that's faith enough for me"
Well, while I understand your points and agree with many of them, I think you cannot say I have been "hoodwinked," especially since you do not know where my philosophy originates. To be hoodwinked, you must first be taken in by a confidence scammer and that is not the case here. My philosophy is mine and, while it is the result of all that I have observed and learned, it is not one that I have taken in toto from anyone else. so I object to the implication that I am somehow maive or gullible.
With taht said, you do ahve good points in your reply -- however, to "sieze power" as you put it, one must first determine where that power lies. You say yourself that the power lies with corporations. Corporations understand the language of profit and ROI. That is their Bible and their creed. Why do you think that, even though in every poll taken on the subject, the majority of those polled feel that WalMart engages in unfair and oppressive employment techniques -- illegal at times -- and yet, the company does nothing to change its ways? The simple fact of the matter is that, as long as a company is making money, it has no reason to change.
Ther is an old adage in show business -- Any publicity is good publicity." This is something actors remind themselves of when a scandal involving them occurs. It is important because it gets their name in front of the public and is, in effect, a tpe of advertisment. Corporations feel much the same. Scandals and problems blow over -- as long as the people keep coming in and spending their money, nothing else really matters.
So, if we are to sieze power from those who have it, we must first take aay what makes them powerful. If influence is their powerbase, that must be taken away. If money is their basse, then that must be removed.
The fact is that they have influence adn power because they have great wads of money to throw around -- especially during election time. This has gotten even worse with recent Supreme Court rulings.
But you miss another important point in my post and that is, if we beleive that whatever power structure we choose to indict is wrong and should not be allowed to continue, then why play the game? Whatever you decide to do is your responsibility. What I do is mine. If we both are passing by a house on fire and one of us decides it is too dangerous to try to rescue the baby in the second story window while the other decides to rush in and try, we both have to take responsibilty for the consequences of our decision. I' for one, choose not to play with those I do not trust, like or respect. I do not choose to be a "consumerist" as the great marketing/retail/services machine would have me be.
Do you think that the Civil Rights Movement in the 60s or the defeat of the anti-gay laws in Colorado were successful because of elections? No, they were not. In each case -- and many others, they were sucecssful because of economic activism. The Montgomery Bus Boycott ended the policy of African-Americans being relegated to riding in the back of the bus. A boycott of products made in Colorado and of tourism there directly caused a repeal of the anti-gay laws of that state.
I've been in many fights over my lifetime. The very first thing I want to know is "who, exactly, is my enemy?" I won't fight an underling. I go straight for the leader. Corporations control the government. I'm not going to waste mny time there when, with another election, the corporations will simply assert their influence and do the same thing that they had before.
"You say yourself that the power lies with corporations. "
Where?
That sounds incredibly complicated and will literally take years to accomplish. The whole think will likely break down with infighting before it goes anywhere. I am in favor of a simple approach.. Pick one demand, focus all of our energy on it and get it done. Then if that succeeds we'll have so much momentum we can try to do the other things...
http://endcorporatepersonhood.us/occupy-wall-street http://endcorporatepersonhood.us/
That could very well be the outcome of the National General Assembly; one item on the list of grievances. Let the delegates who were sent to the NGA figure it out. I'm good with that. The point of the NGA/List is that it is an actual, concrete, mapped, LEGAL way to 'get it done'
Suppose the NGA delivers the one item list. Should it be acted upon by the government, then we set a precedent for the NGA to continue. Should it be ignored, the American people would be able to see clearly that the government is not capable of any task the people demand. The outrage should spread like wildfire!!! Time to put the government between a rock and a hard place.
It's actually quite simple and will have something concrete to show for the effort in under a year.
One of my childhood friends who's going nuts for new-age Mayan prediction type stuff kept posting about Occupy on Facebook. Then I saw the movement was getting bigger and I wondered to myself - "Man, something the new-agers like is getting big. Not a good sign." Then I searched online for more information and came to this forum to learn what the movement was all about. Then I stumbled upon Graeber's works and read a few. Quite enjoyable. But, at this time, I do not agree with the movement's tactics.
I want legal prostitution.
No way. Having a culture run rampant with rape is way better! But if sex has to be illegal. I think it should be illegal in all forms (along with holding hands, and flirty glances as well).
My motto is go to extremes. If you can;t have it all you can't have any of it. Of course I'm being wildly unrealistic and sarcastic but whatever.
I don't see legalizing prostitution as being extreme at all. I agree it should be legal. Two consenting adults should be allowed to do whatever they want as long as it doesn't hurt external parties.
Agreed. I was being sarcastic. Did you read my other posts before that one?
I know you were being sarcastic. I just wanted to specify this to other readers. No, I haven't read many of your posts yet.
Alright well I actually agree with your reasoning as well. The body belongs t one person and its not fair that society can tell it what to do.
In a free country that would make sense. In fact, as long as it wasn't harming anyone else...it should be up to agreements by adults.
Exactly.
Then get married! After a few months you will be the one getting screwed for money.
Lol.
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I dont know Walking around in the blistering sun for 8 hours a day 3 months strait looking for a job eating one time a day wile the government gives a trillion dollars to evil banking cartels. I eventually found a job were my employer screwed with my hours and there was nothing I could do about it. You know things like that.
I came here to see what the enemy is thinking. But I will admit that I have found myself occasionally agreeing with some of the ideas floating around here.
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What brought me here? 13 beers, a line of blow and a hooker from Hong Kong named Mimi....
wow, you are so cool. someday, when I grow up, I really don't want to be anything like you.... one time, at band camp....
I'm here because I lost my job and instead of looking for a job I want the 1% to give me some of their money.
9/11 Truth is what brought me here.
I'm here to see what the 99% are whining about. It's pretty pathetic to think of a leaderless revolt as ever working. At least the arabs aren't behind this squatting freak show.
Leaders just end up with bullets in their brains.