Forum Post: What are your demands?
Posted 13 years ago on Nov. 4, 2011, 9:36 p.m. EST by KirkVanHouten
(123)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement
Is there any point to all of this other than self-indulgent fun and radical-chic fantasy? You are converting public spaces for your private use, taking parks and plazas away from ordinary citizens. I can't go for a walk in the park with my kids because it's been forcibly taken and turned into a hipster slum.
What will it take to persuade you to leave peaceably? The end of capitalism? The eradication of our constitutional system? Whatever your demands are, you're going to grow very old waiting for them to be fulfilled. This is a democratic republic of 310 million people, and we don't make decisions based on the demands of a few thousand layabouts in a park.
Getting the money out of our political system so we can reclaim our representative republic.
www.getmoneyout.com
Antithesis drives progress.... You should be proud to be near to where institutional entrepreneurs are in action. Where history is happening. Try to understand why people react the way they do and teach that to your children. It is more useful then just a walk to the park. You made the first step in entering the forum, now continue your knowledge journey. You never know you may even come up with some good ideas that can change the world. It won't happen by itself for sure. Activists change the world not … park walkers.
This post reminds me of another thing I don't like about OWS: its immense self regard and ridiculous grandiosity. You're not revolutionary heroes; you're play acting. You aren't risking life and limb like the Tahrir Square demonstrators. Camping in the park with your buddies doesn't change the world any more than my strolls in the park.
Assumption is the mother of all ....false conclusions. I am not one of the demonstrators but an scholar in institutional analysis and I actually live in Europe. If you would like to see part of my work please follow the link : http://gaianomy.wordpress.com. I would very much value your feedback. In reply to the Tahrir Square I can say to the defence of all... "there are many paths that lead to the same end".
Revolutions take years. Read any history book.
They are demanding nothing. They are occupying everything by direct democracy.
What are YOUR demands?
Why would you think I have demands? I'm not squatting in a city park.
Well your post complains about the park being turned in to a "hipster slum", yet you seem to have no concern for some pretty serious problems this country is experiencing. A park being unavailable for you and your children seems like a pretty small price to pay while people exercise their civil liberties. Seriously Kirk, come on. Your post indicates your complete surrender and acceptance of the futility to change the system (see the last two lines of your post), why should others be ridiculed for refusing to accept the status quo?
People are taking to the streets because, what they have accepted, is the futility of expecting our elected officials to be willing and/or able to run the country with the best interests of the majority. I adhere to a capitalistic philosophy, and thus ferociously oppose socialism. However, a system which has been politically manipulated to the unfair advantage of a select few is neither free nor capitalistic. Bailing out failed business models of your buddies, because you turned a blind eye to their abuse, is also not capitalism.
If keeping my son and me out of a public park would solve any of our country's problems, certainly that would be a small price to pay. But these campsites aren't solving anything. What I'm wondering is: what's the end game? When, really, does this stop?
We probably have more in common than you think. The manipulation of the system for the benefit of the politically powerful disgusts me as much as it does you. Enough with the socialization of losses and privatization of profits! I am sickened by crony capitalism and corporate welfare in all of its forms. I just think the way to get money out of politics isn't by eviscerating the First Amendment but by getting rid of corporate welfare, tax loopholes, and big-spending, hyperactive government. If we do that, corporations won't waste their money on politics because politics won't make them rich.
I really think that is what this movement is about. Maybe not for everybody but for many. I think people feel let down by the effectiveness of our politicians. People have discovered, or feel like anyhow, that it no longer matters if or who they vote for. The result will be more of the same. Our politicians play games bickering over matters that are insignificant in the grand scheme of things and choose to ignore the big issues. If they do take on a big issue, it stalls.
The big issues being discussed by this movement are the very ones you bring up. If our elected leaders won't respond, we are obligated to voice our displeasure. Contrary to media portrayals we are not a bunch of lazy, hippy socialists. We demand change and don't need to spell it out for those in power, they know full-well what is going on. We are simply saying "We do too".
You've certainly convinced me that this movement is more diverse than I had thought. But that's part of the problem. How can a movement with people like you as well as communists and anarchists get anything done? And what on earth would such a movement do?
Occupy wallstreet should start showing the 1% it's power, ask for people to boycott some product manufactured by a say GE and let this corporation feel its wrath. I think it should be a concentrated effort thus it should target only one product and one company - the idea here is to feel how many people believe in what everyone in every park in the world is doing, but for whatever reason can't physically be there. One company, one product, one week boycott - it would scare the crap out of them and really let them know how fragile they are. Money talks, so let's use it to show them we are really the ones in control.
OWS has already tried this with its boycott of hygiene products, but the stock prices of Gillette and Colgate-Palmolive don't seem to have noticed.
I've been telling every street person I see to consider going down to the park. At least it's a place they can find some food.
I have some dunkin donuts in the blue tent near the north, west corner of the park....Does anybody want a glazed chocolate one? I would love a visitor....I prefer men.
Have any cream filled?
I have custard donuts with sprinkles. Meet me at 11:00. You will like the donut. Can I put some sugar in your coffee?
Have you bathed recently?
Yes. I go home to Scarsdale every day for shower/clean clothes and $$$$.....and come back in the evening for fun in my tent in the park.
You are probably a dude. Lol
...you are wrong. Are you a dude? I don't want to be chatting with any stupid girls.
Troll Thread
I demand that there is change. And all incumbent politicians are voted out. And minimum wage is raised.
I've got news for you. There are 535 incumbent members of Congress, and they aren't all going to be voted out of office. Are you going to spend the rest of your life occupying the public's park?
Please pass this on if you agree. We are working on setting a date.
Force Change, Boycott Capitalism
We know what the problem is, let us fix it and move forward together.
When you look at a republican or democrat, congress or FDA official, Judges and Justice Department, you see criminals.
Our corruption dates back decades to when those, who in trying to preserve slavery, had to find new ways to preserve it and so created a scientific and advanced form of slavery.
Only two components were required -- the illusion of freedom & choice and the taking away of the freedom to live off the land.
How else would you get a person to submit themselves to mind numbing or degrading work unless you oppress them into it.
Our current system is rooted in corruption and every attempt in preserving it involves manipulating human thought and turning people against one another.
In America the population has been transformed into two major voting groups but they only have one choice.
They had been distracted up until now with television and American culture which prospered through the oppression of other nations.
Americans allowed themselves to be fooled into using their military and economic dominance to seize resources of other nations and create expanding markets for American profiteers.
Now that technology, competition and conscience have evolved Americans are realizing that our current system of government is damaging and unsustainable.
Our government officials have allowed private profits and personal benefits to influence decisions that affect the health and well-being of people all over the planet, not just in America... how much longer will we allow them to rule over us??
Occupy Washington and demand that government officials resign their posts.
We will setup new online elections with a verification system that will allow us to see our votes after we cast them, put our new officials in office and work toward rebuilding our country and our world.
Pass this message along to any and everyone, we already occupy the world, unite.
Occupy Washington, Boycott Capitalism, Force Change
http://wesower.org
Well when you are finally ready to present your "demands" to the world, for heaven's sake don't call it a manifesto.
You have some interesting points, but what you describe has nothing to do with capitalism. Capitalism keeps you from working that mind numbing job at the point of a gun. What we have now is an oligarchy, essentially capitalism turned on it's head.