Forum Post: We need to seperate ourselves from conservative nutjobs and Ron Paul supporters
Posted 13 years ago on Oct. 20, 2011, 1:50 a.m. EST by ArrestAllCEOS
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They are truly ruining this movement and we need to separate ourselves from them. We're doing a good job so far but we need to step it up. There is no way that we can help get Obama re-elected if these racist, crazy Ron Paul conservatives are around
"help get Obama re-elected"? You're kidding. He's Brzezinki's protege and carries water for the banksters.
Ron Paul does want to stop the wars and end the Fed, if he lives that long. The voting game is always compromise. I've detested every presidential runner except Jesse Jackson and, getting better, Kucinich and Gravel.
RPers spout fundamental constitutionalism rhetoric, but it only joins the cacophony of other rhetoric on forums.
Peace starts with our neighbors. Give it a chance.
If your goal is to get the Goldman Sachs tool aka Obama re-elected, you are not OWS.
Our President lost my vote when he signed three "Free" Trade Agreements. Precisely the opposite of what needs to be done. That he also sent "advisors" to Africa, and defunded the CLASS part of the already flawed Health Care reform act, (that he signed, and could not legally, unilaterally unsign, though he was allowed to) possibly to pay for the start of another Viet Nam in Africa, was strike one and two for him IMHO. (Yes, it's a run-on sentence, but so what.) My guess, is that at least two of these actions can be accounted for in our President's recent increase in campaign funds.
ArrestAllCEOS you're a deluded tosser and you're crap above is not even worth a counter argument.
You're playing right in to the establishments hands. Divide and conquor is what they do and as you can see they are very good at it.
The best way to get something done is to look at issues, not candidates. Make a list of issues and postions and ask candidates to commit to them. I have five proposals for five of the America's most pressing problems that are simple, fair, and workable solutions for: Taxation, Social Security, Healthcare, Home Mortgages, and Jobs.
Workable Flat Tax--A two percent federal flat tax on every financial transaction, wholesale or retail. No federal income tax.
Social Security. A two percent deduction for social security for worker retirement only. Congress should not have access to the new social security fund.
Universal Healthcare. A two percent deduction for each individual to provide for basic universal healthcare and an annual healthcare checkup for every person in the country, rich or poor. Prices for services are based on the amount of money available and then negotiated with the medical industry.
Home Mortgage Loan Reform. With front end loaded home loans a problem arises if you have to sell your home within the first five years or so. You will still owe about the same as the original loan amount because the first years you pay almost all interest. Banks can make good money by making home loans where at least fifty percent of monthly payment goes toward the principle and each month you only owe for the outstanding balance, like with credit cards.
Two-tier Jobs Plan for 100 Percent Employment. Rather than revitalization of the infrastructure in which too much money would be consumed with material costs, offer to pay half the hourly wages for new hires of unemployed blue-collar workers for six months and then go to twenty-five percent for six months. With the remainder on unemployment insurance and welfare offer to pay $10.00 per hour for roadside, public parks, etc clean up as in the Roosevelt WPA programs. Ask some of the rich and famous and executives’ etc. to volunteer a day a month to work along aside them so it won’t appear undignified to do the manual labor. In this approach, all money goes to workers, not materials.
The best way to get something done is to look at issues, not candidates. Make a list of issues and postions and ask candidates to commit to them. I have five proposals for five of the America's most pressing problems that are simple, fair, and workable solutions for: Taxation, Social Security, Healthcare, Home Mortgages, and Jobs.
Workable Flat Tax--A two percent federal flat tax on every financial transaction, wholesale or retail. No federal income tax.
Social Security. A two percent deduction for social security for worker retirement only. Congress should not have access to the new social security fund.
Universal Healthcare. A two percent deduction for each individual to provide for basic universal healthcare and an annual healthcare checkup for every person in the country, rich or poor. Prices for services are based on the amount of money available and then negotiated with the medical industry.
Home Mortgage Loan Reform. With front end loaded home loans a problem arises if you have to sell your home within the first five years or so. You will still owe about the same as the original loan amount because the first years you pay almost all interest. Banks can make good money by making home loans where at least fifty percent of monthly payment goes toward the principle and each month you only owe for the outstanding balance, like with credit cards.
Two-tier Jobs Plan for 100 Percent Employment. Rather than revitalization of the infrastructure in which too much money would be consumed with material costs, offer to pay half the hourly wages for new hires of unemployed blue-collar workers for six months and then go to twenty-five percent for six months. With the remainder on unemployment insurance and welfare offer to pay $10.00 per hour for roadside, public parks, etc clean up as in the Roosevelt WPA programs. Ask some of the rich and famous and executives’ etc. to volunteer a day a month to work along aside them so it won’t appear undignified to do the manual labor. In this approach, all money goes to workers, not materials.
So, the point IS to get Obama reelected then, right? Aha! This guy is writing about the part played by Ron Paul people at OWS, and I think he's basically right, although it bodes poorly for the future of OWS:
http://selectingstones.com/2011/10/23/why-are-there-so-many-ron-paul-supporters-at-occupy-wall-street/
To hell with the left/right rhetoric that divides us.
Insofar as the Ron Paul Revolution is a campaign for liberty--a campaign of individuals trying to re-establish democratic accountability, end imperialism, and reign in and prosecute corporate crime--then they are essential allies. IMO the main rhetorical device of OWS ought to be that this struggle is about freedom. We should be provoking dialougue on what consitutes a free republic composed of free citizens.
There are broad areas of agreement between OWS and Paul supporters.
-Opposition to corporate welfare, corporate bailouts, corporate crime -Opposition to aggressive wars and strong commitment to slashing the military budget -Commitment to renewal of civil liberties and habeus corpus, along with the rule of law with regards to fighting terrorism. -Opposition to drug war oppression
I think these are among the most important issues and they are also issues that are relevant to the POTUS and the POTUS campaign.
In order for a social movement to have a lasting impact, it has to be able to appeal to conservatives. Rather than following the mass media line of petty partisan bickering, we requires a "united front" among sincere citizens to accomplish the goals above. The Paul presidential campaign could be one of many vehicles to popularize these views and educate the people.
What I'm saying is nothing new: Ralph Nader has reached the same conclusions.
http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2011/01/22/ron-paul-ralph-nader-agree-on-progressive-libertarian-alliance/
Note how Paul has adopted Nader phrase "corporatism" to describe crony capitalism---the vocabulary of OWS and the Paul Revolution is converging.
To hell with the left/right rhetoric that divides us.
Insofar as the Ron Paul Revolution is a campaign for liberty--a campaign of individuals trying to re-establish democratic accountability, end imperialism, and reign in and prosecute corporate crime--then they are essential allies. IMO the main rhetorical device of OWS ought to be that this struggle is about freedom. We should be provoking dialougue on what consitutes a free republic composed of free citizens.
There are broad areas of agreement between OWS and Paul supporters.
-Opposition to corporate welfare, corporate bailouts, corporate crime -Opposition to aggressive wars and strong commitment to slashing the military budget -Commitment to renewal of civil liberties and habeus corpus, along with the rule of law with regards to fighting terrorism. -Opposition to drug war oppression
I think these are among the most important issues and they are also issues that are relevant to the POTUS and the POTUS campaign.
In order for a social movement to have a lasting impact, it has to be able to appeal to conservatives. Rather than following the mass media line of petty partisan bickering, we requires a "united front" among sincere citizens to accomplish the goals above. The Paul presidential campaign could be one of many vehicles to popularize these views and educate the people.
What I'm saying is nothing new: Ralph Nader has reached the same conclusions.
http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2011/01/22/ron-paul-ralph-nader-agree-on-progressive-libertarian-alliance/
Note how Paul has adopted Nader phrase "corporatism" to describe crony capitalism---the vocabulary of OWS and the Paul Revolution is converging.
Who wants to reelect that misrable failure Obama? For what so he can sell us down the river with more trade deals that ship jobs over seas and expand the military industrial complex? Not that I am a RP supporter either but this miserable degenerate corporate whore isnt going to make difference for any good.
Well said my friend. I am a RP supporter but I share your sentiments when it comes to the Liar-in-Chief.
How much are they paying you to post on here? Re-elect Obama? The same Obama who promised to bring our troops home, yet decides to attack another country? We're protesting WALL STREET for crying out loud, OBAMA IS BOUGHT BY AND PAID FOR BY WALL STREET, as is EVERY REPUBLICAN CANDIDATE EXCEPT FOR RON PAUL. To brand Ron Paul supporters is also insulting to me, who supports him. Maybe if you didn't go by what you hear about him on TV and read one of his books instead you'd see that he thinks that racism is one of the most toxic and freedom-inhibiting problems in the United States. Bring the troops home, shrinking the size of government, repealing the Patriot Act, no more wasteful spending, auditing the Federal Reserve? I don't understand how you can't like that. He's a hell of a better choice than Wall Street Puppet Obama and those Bush-like Republican candidates. Come on guys, be open-minded about him. Look him up, then make a decision about him before jumping to conclusions.
is the goal is to get obama re-elected? i certainly hope not... wtf is that going to accomplish?
Trying to drum up votes for Obama? FUCK OFF!!
Trying to drum up votes for Paul? FUCK OFF!!
The more you spam for those guys, the less likely I'll vote for them. Let THEM show some credibility, then I'll consider it. They don't own this movement, and this ain't their playground. The movement exists because THEY FUCKED UP, TOOK BRIBES, BAILED OUT CROOKS, AND SOLD US OUT.
No trust, no confidence. Sell those chumps to sheeple.
Ron Paul has never taken a bribe and has never been bought out and paid for by Wall Street like every other candidate has. Hell, he even returns part of his yearly salary to the U.S. Treasury every year and has said that if he is elected president, he would only want a salary of $39,000 a year, the average US income. I encourage you to do more research on him.
do they pay you well?
divide and conquor. This isnt about getting Obama re-elected or Ron Paul elected. No one person can fix our countries problems. We have to vote in local elections and know who we are voting for. It is congress that passes laws, it is the Supreme Court that decides if the laws are just. Who ever is president, all they do is set the agenda. If you want big change it has to start small, and it has to take sacrifice
Mostly agree with your statement, for what it's worth. Since Citizen's United decision, I refer to it as the un-supreme court. Way too much money dictating policy at this point. You do show insight in your expression that one person can't do all that much. I see the President as part of a flailing party in the Congress. he may mean well, but has noone to push for change. Those that might are probably bought and sold. And the other party does nothing, yet collects the same pay. Both parties are definitely owned by their large donors. It would be impossible for it to be otherwise. Keep up the good work!
agreed, i have tried to be kind to ronpaulians but they just refuse to get it that this is not about ron. hes for starters a global warming denialist
Global climate change my friend. Colder winters, hotter summers. It is mainly due to natural earth cycles, but mankind has not helped with their pollution. To blame it solely on pollution would be false.
natural cycles happen over thousand or millions of years, not 30. sorry no, this has nothing to do with natural cycles.
No we don't. We need to just keep standing here. they are ticked off too.
We should welcome everyone who has an open mind. If someone likes Ron Paul, it is a good bet that they have an open mind. The guy is pretty unique among conservative politicians. The best way to talk to Ron Paul supporters is to hear their suggestions, offer reasons for aspects you don't like, and offer your own suggestions. I have some issues with Ron Paul and honestly want Obama to get reelected (and maybe grow a pair). Nonetheless, there are several things Obama has done that Ron Paul and I both oppose. For example, continuing the Afghan War.
Tell you what. I've never joied a political party and have no intention to - ever. Libertarians are a rebranding of the (John Birch Society, founded by the Koch brother's father.) They inherited Koch Industries (oil barons) and were key players in founding the Libertarians. Since Libertarians failed as an influential political force, the Kochs started the Tea Party and remain key financers of it. If you love big oil, powers grabs, union busting and voter supression then you'll love the Tea Party (which isn't even a viable party, in that they run as RepugnantCONs.) The Koch brothers are the personification of the 1%. They use programmed pawns to spout their misguided ideology and believe what they say at your own risk. Just look at the states that are controlled by baggers (as I refer to them.) Take Scott Walker of WI - please. There's a corporate shill that is destined to be recalled if ever there was one, and the clock is ticking. No other explaination for Walker making speeches in other bagger contolled states. They (Koch brothers through Koch Indus.) and other oppressive multinationals formed ALEC. see also: ALECwatch.org These are the people that are sending US jobs to other countries - outsourcing labor for slave/subsistence wages. Tea baggers are a wholly-owned subsidiary of ALEC. The best party to belong to : none of the above. Once the money is out of political campaigns there will be no need for a party. And, if it's such a great party, then why doesn't anyone seem to be having any fun? :)
I don't see that many tea party supporters on this forum offering any solutions. Most of what has become the Tea Party platform is entirely Koch supported and is entirely diametrically opposed to everything OWS should and does represent. Therefore, they don't offer their plans but simply parrot some of their BS like the Communist allegation.
However, I do not consider Ron Paul to be sold out by the Tea Party like Cain, Perry, Bachmann, etc. Romney is the Tea Parties least favorite but in my mind he would be easily as bad for the country as any of the others, including Ron Paul. I do not support any of them for President. I like Obama. But ideas are free and all I am saying is that some Ron Paul ideas are not crazy.
By finding common ground we become stronger. Do not dismiss out of hand anyone who offers a sincere proposal. I think this is an ideal that should be reached for in this movement, and an ideal for which this movement is known for.
Endeavor to convince the Ron Paul and Conservatives that take selective extremes, that the constitution can be used to defend itself. We only need to read it.----
Article. V.
The Congress, whenever two thirds of both Houses shall deem it necessary, shall propose Amendments to this Constitution, or, on the Application of the Legislatures of two thirds of the several States, shall call a Convention for proposing Amendments, which, in either Case, shall be valid to all Intents and Purposes, as Part of this Constitution, when ratified by the Legislatures of three fourths of the several States, or by Conventions in three fourths thereof, as the one or the other Mode of Ratification may be proposed by the Congress; Provided that no Amendment which may be made prior to the Year One thousand eight hundred and eight shall in any Manner affect the first and fourth Clauses in the Ninth Section of the first Article; and that no State, without its Consent, shall be deprived of its equal Suffrage in the Senate.
Thats the thing the douches in congress would rather play solitaire than do their jobs. If the Congress we let get elected by not showing up to the polls during mid-terms and ignoring our local politics decides they dont want to defend the constitution there isnt a darn thing the president can do about it.
There is at least one: vote them out. The other is to voice your opinion in public, en mass. Let's call it protesting, hhhmmm?
I see it as fortunate and in our favor that this knowledge of Article V directs us to work within our state governments, on the legislations to in turn go after Article V enforcement. This is easier and has the ultimate constitutional power. Congress basically has no say at all IF 3/4 of the states are ratifying:) -
It has to be congress that does the ratifying..."the Legislatures of two thirds of the several States" that means the house of representatives.
"shall be valid to all Intents and Purposes, as Part of this Constitution, when ratified by the Legislatures of three fourths of the several States, or by Conventions in three fourths thereof,"
The critical part is "or by Conventions in three fourths thereof," that is not federal. Preceded by "shall be valid to all Intents and Purposes", and what the passage above cites, the passage following the above in Article V does not have the strength with the word "may".
Article. V.
The Congress, whenever two thirds of both Houses shall deem it necessary, shall propose Amendments to this Constitution, or, on the Application of the Legislatures of two thirds of the several States, shall call a Convention for proposing Amendments, which, in either Case, shall be valid to all Intents and Purposes, as Part of this Constitution, when ratified by the Legislatures of three fourths of the several States, or by Conventions in three fourths thereof, as the one or the other Mode of Ratification may be proposed by the Congress; Provided that no Amendment which may be made prior to the Year One thousand eight hundred and eight shall in any Manner affect the first and fourth Clauses in the Ninth Section of the first Article; and that no State, without its Consent, shall be deprived of its equal Suffrage in the Senate.
What we have to do is never support any candidate ever because these partisan systems are all about co-opting our movement.
Stay strong and don't let anyone tell you to support anyone.
Why would you re-elect the poster boy for Wall St?
Obama received more Wall St donations than any other presidential candidate.
You must be on the wrong forum.
Try whatthefuckhasobamadone.com
And he leads the pack in donations from that sector again in this election
Don't worry about them. All those who are aware of what is truly going on will not be swayed by the non-sense and propaganda being spread. Rumors, lies, and speculations...nothing else. Just focus on the message.
Obama is the ultimate hypocrite, as is Hilary
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RGRXCgMdz9A&feature=player_embedded#!
Your obcession is telling. Do you like tea?