Forum Post: We do need a leader, and I suggest David Korten!
Posted 13 years ago on Oct. 12, 2011, 1:40 a.m. EST by mike232
(2)
from San Francisco, CA
This content is user submitted and not an official statement
I really think David Korten is the perfect person to lead our movement. Founder of Yes Magazine, former Harvard business professor, author of "Agenda for a New Economy," "The Great Turning," "When Corporations Rule the World." What is playing out now is exactly what his life's work has been about, and we would have specific actionable ideas of exactly what needs to be done to replace our broken system.
Most importantly, he is utterly normal in appearance and demeanor, well spoken, has the chops to be taken seriously by a large number of people, and will give credibility the movement. He will be able to catch the attention of the average American who either doesn't have an opinion about this, or just thinks we're a bunch of crazies. Watch the video below, and if you have some time, read a few of his articles. I think it's pretty hard to paint him a radical lazy hippy marxist freeloader yadayada.
http://www.pbs.org/now/fixing-the-future/picture.html http://www.yesmagazine.org/blogs/david-korten
ed schultz
You don't remember th Howard Dean "scream," do you? They (the media) destroyed him with a soundbite, about nothing.
Well can we at least have a few learned spokespeople then?
Absolutely, as far as I'm concerened! All I'm warning against is the very thing that has destroyed so many well-intentioned people advocating for change; the message is subsumed by the personality, and soon its not about the issues anymore it's about Joe, or Jane, Smith, or Jones, or whoever. This happens over and over again.
Ok cool.
i suggest no leader. there is no systemic or game reason why to have one and in fact a leader is not only a liability but a systemic bottle neck.
http://www.oligarchyusa.com/
http://www.istockanalyst.com/finance/story/5390832/some-fascinating-stats-about-our-corporate-oligarchy
http://foreignpolicyblogs.com/category/21st-century-challenges/ethicsandeconomics/
According to a 2008 article by David Rothkopf, the world’s 1,100 richest people have almost twice the assets of the poorest 2.5 billion (Rothkopf, 2008). Aside from the obvious problem – that this global elite has their hands in everything from politics to financial institutions – …
http://theprogressiveplaybook.com/2011/09/occupywallstreet-an-american-tahrir/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ght22PnCXy0
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/miles-mogulescu/wisconsin-is-ground-zero_b_825321.html
http://last-lost-empire.com/blog/?tag=global-corporate-oligarchy
To the extent that we, the people, are removed from control over our lands, marketplaces, central banks, and media we are no longer empowered. In practice, those few who do control the land, central bank, media and "free market" are the real rulers of our corrupt and declining "democracy."
Due to propaganda from a corporate-owned and edited media we are kept from knowing, much less debating, the nature of our system. Due to a central bank owned by bankers, media owned by a few global concerns, and trade regime controlled by global corporations (i.e., one designed to remove the people from control over their markets and environments) the vast majority have become little more than latter-day serfs and neo-slaves upon a corporate latifundia.
To restore a semblance of effective democracy and true freedom Americans, and people around the world, need to re-educate themselves as to the true nature of their political and economic systems. Toward this end, OligarchyUSA.com is dedicated to providing old and new information, books, links, reform ideas and debates not easily found or accessed today in establishment media.
OligarchyUSA.com is but one more site and sign of the times as ground-up counter-revolutions arise around the world... all in response to a forced and freedomless globalization courtesy of a ruling global elite perfecting their top-down plutocracy and revolutions of the rich against the poor. In short, democracy is no longer effective today. For this reason, it is toward a restoration of truly effective and representative democracies, and natural freedom, that this site is dedicated.
We do not need a leader. We are forming democratic structures, and these democratic structures will not only revolutionalize society, but will also revolutionalize ourselves.
I don't agree(that we don't need a leader). Forget about who it is specifically. It's easier to target us and label us now, when we're just a jumbled mass of people. We need to sharpen the message. And I know it's early, and we will. But we can't just have all these random grievances floating about. We need a coherant vision, and specific goals, and specific means of achieving them.
And when I say leader, I'm not talking about leader as we know it today- some posturing politician. I'm talking about a real leader, who actually does have the interests of people at heart, who would gladly step aside if the situation calls for it. Any leader of our movement would be well aware of our collective awareness, and that we wouldn't tolerate any of the usual nonsense. If someone like Korten was just in it for ego gratification there are far easier paths to that destination.
None of us knows what the future holds. I guess at this moment, I just feel that we need to be careful not to be too idealistic in how we go about this. The system is too deeply entrenched. We may need to step sideways for a while until we truly reach the destination.
You want a leader? Look in the mirror.
Just to make a quick point: there is a difference between ideological leadership and executive leadership. What this movement needs is executive leadership.
Have you ever wondered what the difference is between the President's role and Congress' role? I'll make the salient distinction here - but keep in mind I am simplifying it to make the point. Congress is theoretically supposed to be the ideological leadership. They are supposed to set the policy. The President is theoretically supposed to be the executive leadership. He is supposed to enforce the policy.
In other words, Congress decides what to do. The President does it.
What Occupy needs is an organization that can make decisions about how to progress. The ideological leadership is still the people. That's how our United States government is supposed to work; that's also what Occupy happens to need right now.
No. This movement represents more than the vision of a single man or single faction. It needs no central leader, nor any central ideology to guide it. It rose up and gained prominence through its organic, grassroots, multifaceted nature and will succeed in its goals of reforming government into a clean, transparent, democratic system without the aid or need of a single speaker.
This is not about one man, nor one vision, but simply the popular rage at the broken nature and sham politics of the system we're presented with.
Just I just say that one of the reasons I find this movement so appealing is that it doesn't seem to have a leader? America was not made by Washington and Adams alone. "We are the 99%" is so much more appealing than some pontificating individual who is clearly a smarty pants.
Mike232, we don't need a leader. The moment you name someone a leader, you provide a reason for people to leave the movement due to disagreeing with your choice. We're forming communication networks as we speak. Leaders/spokespeople will come forward when their message is embraced by the majority, to be replaced as other people are selected later.
Give it time. Right now, the corporate media and political parties are getting nervous. They want a target. They want someone they can attack and cause the movement to splinter.
Leaderless works.
It isn't a leader of idea that we need but a good community organizer...lol...I meant that seriously however. We need one person who can hear all ideas - and commits to no idea. Someone who can sort out which ideas are related to each other and eventually those ideas will boil down leaving the ultimate underlying idea.
we're having protests all over America. How about each protest group select two representatives to meet the ones that other groups select? We'd have our own little Constitutional Congress... but with livestream so we can hear them as they discuss and debate?
(thumb up if you like this idea)
Thumbs up!
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I think we are doing great without a leader. We are effective, we are organized. We are everything the government should be ....but without the government or leaders.
Congress should be on Wall St taking notes on how to work together without mommy and daddy telling them to play nice.
No, we're not effective, and we're barely organized. It's been a month, and just tonight the kids down at the park were still working out how to greet newcomers, how to tell people what the group is about. They haven't figured out what to tell people the group is about, yet.
I agree they are playing nice. That much is indisputable. The vibe there is incredible. But there is no forward motion. It's a hangout, not a movement. This can't last much longer.
For having only been a month, you have what I would say are rather high expectations. As a member of a budding chapter of an International Association, I have had the chance to watch a self-organized group of people who had a LOT of things in common, but couldn't do so much as follow the standards they had agreed upon for conducting business (bearing in mind that the founders of the International office advised that it is normal to expect that the chapter would likely experience little ability to accomplish much until their second year, simply as a matter of getting their feet under them). For strangers to get along nicely and behave in a civil manner in less than a year is monumental all by itself. Give them some credit, and some more time, and you're going to see a lot more productive activity in short order.
On the one hand, you are preaching to the choir. I've made the point myself that one month is an incredibly tiny amount of time, and I have faith. I believe the people will awaken.
On the other hand, there still needs to be urgency. We can all believe, but it won't happen if we don't work. That's my point. If the movement taps the breaks to celebrate what they've done so far, they risk everything. Because there is no binding ideology. The only thing that is binding everyone right now is frustration and novelty. But frustration vents, and novelty dissipates - and something needs to be ready to fill that space.
We arent effective? You might want to break out google and start searching. I literally spend 12-16 hours a days for the last several days all over the net on this very topic #OWS.
Dont think you are not being effective because you are. The problem i see many in the movement having is they are feeling rushed. Dont rush it. Let it happen. Let democracy work. They didnt build Rome in a day and we arent going to change the US or the world in a couple of months.
You are letting "outsiders" as we will collectively call them provoke you into rushing it. They want you to hurry up so you are more likely to make mistakes. Then they can rip us apart with the mistakes.
The people in power and pulling the strings in the world are very good at this game of chess they are playing with you. Hell they invented it and had decades to perfect it.
DO NOT LET THEM GET TO YOU. You are all doing wonderfully. I see the feeds, i see the videos and read ....man i dont think i read this much in my entire school life.
You guys are running a community, a protest... no a lot of protest at once....WITHOUT leaders. Without a chain of command. Do you even know how impressive this is? You have them scared **less ( pardon my language but it really is suiting). They cant figure out how your doing this without leaders. It is beyond their comprehension, out of their realm of possibly. They rely on leadership structure and your doing all this on the very thing they rely on for their power. They are trying their best to undermine you without actually making it known they are doing it.
And i am telling you guys you are making progress. You are making advances everyday. The multicity protest was just pure genius because not everyone can make it to NY to show support. But going local is much easier, thus more support showing.
Do this on your schedule. If you pick a leader and you mess up, your going to lose support. I can almost guarantee picking a leader will lose some of your following. Because you now became a representative republic and everyone wants that representative to represent their interest. How much you lose depends on your choice and it is possible to pick some back up later.
Also a leader makes it easier to focus on killing( not literally) one person and fraction the group. If you really feel the need for leadership. Do a council. Where right wing, middle, left wing is represented by multiple people. It is harder to pick apart and the council , when picked properly , will represent everyone equally, you will lose the least amount of support this way. I suggest a 9 person council, 3 from each position.
You dont need to turn it into how they do things. Remember we been doing things their way for decades, look how well that worked out for us.
My statement is not about Us vs. Them. I am talking about my personal observation, on the ground, at Zuccotti park. It is a hangout, not a movement. I am talking about strolling around the financial district and seeing more people on the streets completely oblivious to the movement than there were people at the protest itself, not to mention the tiny number of curious bystanders. There were more police than curious onlookers.
Don't get me wrong: what Occupy has done so far is pretty amazing. Even getting this far is an accomplishment - but it is still ineffective. I don't think people really understand how difficult it is to move a monolith like government, and what kind of effort, discipline, and suffering needs to go into it.
Occupy is making noise, but it is the novelty of it right now that is garnering attention. If the movement wants to move, it will need organization. It will need executive leadership. Yes, if they pick the wrong one, it will be terrible. Well, the road is fraught with peril. But no one told you this was going to be easy and risk-free. Life is hard; they still need to get with it.
Just because you do not see us, does not mean we arent watching. We are watching. The WHOLE WORLD is watching and cheering( well a good portion anyway). We see you, even though you do not see us. We see you take the Millionaire March. We see you drive off Fox News with " Fox News Lies" ( which was awesome btw). We are behind you. Do not think for one minute we are not because you do not see us. Politicians only dream of the support you have.
"Although a republican government is slow to move, yet when once in motion, its momentum becomes irresistible." - Thomas Jefferson.
You are moving, have patience. It takes time to move such a large mass and you are making more noise than you think i think. OCS is one the most talked about if not the most talked subject on the web. It takes a long time to move that many voices.
Leftist asshole? Whoa those are some strong words. I don't get that impression at all from him. If he's misguided, so be it, but I do think he's genuinely interested in doing what's best for most people. But to each's own. I respect your opinion. Take care!
You do need a leader.
But you DO NOT need a leftist asshole as a leader. Your movement will be marginalized and destroyed with leftist leaders.