Forum Post: We deserve more money
Posted 13 years ago on Oct. 7, 2011, 10:15 p.m. EST by OccupyDetroit
(22)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement
It's about time that we finally stand united to take back what belongs to us, the real people. Does wasting your youth working 100 hours per week or risking your life savings to start a business make someone more deserving of owning a mansion and driving nice cars? I don't think so.
American was based on the abolition of classes and promoting equality. If rich people are having a taste of the nice life while we aren't, then they should be poor until we also get the chance to enjoy it. If they can make so much money for themselves, there is no reason why they can't work for us too.
It is time to get money out of politics. It is not because successful businessmen know how to run corporation and organize resources to make themselves millionaires that they would have any better idea of how to run a country.
Occupy until we get what we want and deserve!
You just don't get it, you don't deserve anything except what you earn. I really hope you are being sarcastic, otherwise you are just dangerous.
I knows someone who works so hard
yer never see him at all
he's crawling on his hands and knees
to keep me pumping gasoline
I knows someone whose always struggling
reaching for squandering share
I knows someone who earned it all
but has none to spare
Great poem. Love it! Keep them coming!
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You're a loser! Get a job and pay your bills. Pay your taxes. Pay back your student loans!
We need to establish a society that has less concern for money. Demanding MORE money or equal money is just a cut on the surface of a substantial life.
Spending one's life earning money (for no better purpose) is a wasted life.
Living like a potato on welfare is also a wasted life.
One's life is wasted worrying about money, whether you have a lot or not so much.
You are right let's stop thinking about money. Let's also stop this occupy wall street thing, just stop thinking about the way we think about money.
If you think you deserve more money, then go earn it.
In other words, you "deserve" to steal the money from a man who didn't spend his time aimlessly wondering the streets, ipod on side, driving a car he couldn't afford but instead built a business that provides JOBS (foreign term I know to most of the OWS crowd)...pathetic.
Are you talking about "rich" people like ....oh say, hollywood celebrities or maybe sports stars or how about george sorros or maybe john kerry, nancy pelosi, the kennedys, the clintons, I mean you all decide you know who's stealing your money, but seriously.....
nobody deserves anything
You keep what you earn. But you have to demand for what you deserve. Counter-intuitive.
But we all do deserve at least the treatment and respect of a certain amount of human dignity.
Keep in mind... it only takes one desperate person to walk into a building with nothing to lose but their life and start taking their frustrations out on the lives of random people...
Desperate people to desperate and irresponsible things.
So if nothing else... the exorbantly wealthy have a right to fear those that they have struck fear and suffering into.
A living wage is complex to be sure but the reality is if staple areas, food, shelter, medicine etc were under sound / sane cost control than wages would go allot further. Its always complicated, finding a job, people are passed over because of all sorts of reasons some fair some unfair. I think the question we have to ask is should it take 3 or more incomes to achieve the American dream? Should one of the richest countries in the world have mass homelessness and people dieing in the streets because of issues like access to basic food, shelter and medicine? The extreme right claims more than not to be people of the bible yet they don't aspire to follow in the path of their messiah (Jesus if you will). Did he starve the starving? did he leave the lame lame? No.. he helped them, he tried to lift them out of their poverty. He cared for all of us yet those who claim to believe in him care for no one but them selves.
Wow, now I'm not religious but I ask.. What would Jesus do??
What is the root cause of your protest? I want to understand.
Is it lack of a job? Is it lack of money? Is it lack of a cause? I saw one protester proclaim that they wanted more money for the 99%. Isn't that counter productive? I don't understand why you are protesting Wall Street. The unions have billions of dollars, and they are your supporters. Why not have the unions create thousands of jobs for you, and give you some of their money?
OccupyDetroit, please give me an answer!
The truth is that I'm lazy, am a bad employee and don't accept authority in the work place, and I have a small penis. It makes me really angry to see successful people and I want their money or at least stop seeing them so I will feel better about myself.
What if the government made it so that everyone had exactly the same stuff. Clothes, cars, house, boat, food...everything. What if no one had the right to make any choices at all for themselves and never had to take any personal responsibility. Wow. That would be so great. But we'd probably find some other reason to hate each other. Maybe we'd divide ourselves by height. Then all the short people could riot in the streets and demand that tall people crouch a little.
USSR! Fuck Yeah!
Um, No. This shouldn't be about vilifying the rich. This should be about exposing the villains wearing the Emperor's Clothes. It is like a MUCH needed conversation about the difference between a lie and the truth. Independence. Democracy. Time to grow up and learn from our ignorant ways. "This American government — what is it but a tradition, though a recent one, endeavoring to transmit itself unimpaired to posterity, but each instant losing some of its integrity? It has not the vitality and force of a single living man; for a single man can bend it to his will. It is a sort of wooden gun to the people themselves."
we dont want money we want haromony. big difference. the choice at its core is whether people want money or freedom cause you cant have both. POWER TO THE PEOPLE!
how exactly do we not have freedom right now? we can even occupy the streets without getting arrested, unlike in the middle east where we would get shot. What liberty do you feel that you don't have right now?
We are free to do what we want, but what we want is not free. That's why we need more money
lol. more money is the last thing this world needs.
Wow you are free to stand ouside, our forefathers would be proud.
you are not free despite what the system has convinced you is freedom.
by saying we need more money is just ignorant and that statement alone says alot about your state of mind. cant you see how programmed you are? (sarcastic-) money money money, money buys happiness more money, the things i want cost money, we need more money so we can buy total junk that is produced by poor starving people halfway around the world so your junk that you crave is manufactured to the lowest possible world standards and you can get it as cheap as possible just so you can throw it away the whole process polluting and wasting just so you can give debt papers to corporations. MONETARY SYSTEM = WHITE COLLAR SLAVERY!! WAKE UP!!
Ok, you might be right. But what is it that you would like to be free to do?
What freedom do you think I am missing here?
the freedom to get a quality education as a human right not as a socially censored crap we are taught now.
there are entire regions that dont even have clean drinking water while we flush and waste billions of gallons of cleaner water.
the ability to live and go anywhere in the world. they dont want to build intercontinental travel because we will become cultured and wiser as a collective people
just a few.. but it is really subjected to respective regions of the world. you personally are missing out on your life because you are forced to work for money and not pursue a truly fulfilling life for youself.
are you able to go to any world you want and live there free of the monetary system?
are you able to travel the world at all?
are you able to get the highest quality education at will?
are you able to eat the best foods and drive the most efficient cars or live in whatever kind of house you want?
What you are talking about here is unlimited resources. There is no way that everyone in the world can travel, live in giant houses and eat the best food.
You are talking about the freedom to do everything you want. Pretty much live like a millionaire without the money right? Travel the world, have a nice car and a huge house. But if you want something, you have to give something in return, provide a service that someone is willing to pay for.
yes i am talking about a tapping into all of the unlimited resources on the planet and in space, and within the planet. no we would all be living way better than millionaires.
and all you have to give is half the amount of time or less than you do right now working for chicken scratch and instead you would volunteering yourself, your time, your unique mind to your community and in return your community will reward you with everything you could need and make accessible the things you could want.
with mag lev trains, anti-gravity magnetically propelled personal vehicles, both of which we have the resources to make available to everyone could get you from here to china in less than an hour in a sealed frictionless tube through the scenic oceans.
so you are comparing it to the life of a millionaire which is all you can envision, but it is truly a unique and individualized lives for everyone. it will blow your mind. trust me. and its all feasable, logical, and in many minds are around the world already developing.
imagine what we could create with unlimited resources, individual courage and a collective faith in the human spirit. i can guarantee that we could create a fully sustainable planet without the use of fossil fuels in less than 20yrs. the the universe is 13.7billion yrs old supposedly, the earth is 4.6 billion yrs old supposedly, human beings on earth are around 120,000yrs old. thousands of years of peace in early civiliations (which had no money system or military), then hundreds of years of war, death, disease and suffering and revolutions to bring us to this place, this point in history to make a choice to alter the downward spiral of humanity into an opportunity for the people of the world to live and enjoy the world our ancestors died protecting and now are children are still dying but not to protect our freedom, to protect the business interests of corporations.
where is the progress in that? stand up for your right to co-exist as an individual free from all forms of slavery.
i wrote this a few months ago: "this a journey that not only enlightens the individual but countless people worldwide who are on similar journeys through their mind and spirit. which will culminate with the largest movement in human history, millions of feet enlightened to the follies and errors of this materialistic superficial existence. I believe the one man, one mind can make this difference. you make think this to be naive however history proves that it is not. History tells us that one man with the right motives, the purest intentions for his fellow man can create a rippling domino effect into the population of the world amassing millions of like-minded individuals under one cause because it is right, it is pure and because it speaks truth."
It looks like you know how to run the world. But what are you doing about it? Are you a scientist actually pushing the world forward, creating something, or just some dude doing nothing but telling others how they should run the country for him?
Once again, there is a limited number of scientist who can work on those things. Brillant mind are far from an unlimited ressources.
wrong again. have you ever heard of Education? once money is gone we could TEACH a 5 yr olds to be scientists if we wanted to.
Secondly, about me, i am the ultimate product of modern america, a poster boy, if you will, of the 99%. my parents were hyper religious and my father was military, i am the middle of 3 boys who grew up in the military, which if you dont know is below poverty level wages for enlisted. parents didnt care if i got an education so they pulled me out of school at 15 to get a job but instead i moved out set out to make something of myself. well when i was 18 i was still couch surfing, struggling to eat everyday i got locked up for stealing from corporations, not money but clothes, food, etc. they threw the book at me 3 felonies 1yr inside 6yrs probation, 1yr of house arrest $12K in fines and restitution and a 1000hrs of community service. plus i have the felonies for life with any way to clear my record.
cant get a decent job, the best job i have had was right at the peak of the 2008 economic crash and i got downsized out, lost the job, lost the truck, lost my house. my pregnant fiance left me for some guy she met online and married him before she had the baby and put his name on the birth cert so i am forced to fight her in court and her parents are millionaires. tell me how that will turn out....but im not even stable enough to take care of me.
im 30,000 in debt and i have never owned a credit card. i have no credit and can barely even get a bank account. im living in a basement in the middle of nowhere on someones couch trying to scrape up enough cash to get a car and go live in it somewhere.
so yes i do know how to run the world, let the people run the world thats how. but im not a scientist or any even remotely reputable socially accepted citizen. i am self educated, collectively aware, and anti-materialialistic. I AM THE 99%. AND I WILL DIE FOR THIS CAUSE. WILL YOU?
Right now, the 1% control the resources through use of money. If you take away all money, someone will get direct control of the resources. If you do this on a global scale, you will have someone--some group--controlling all resources globally. You may propose a system that will ensure 'fairness' in distribution, but ALL systems are susceptible to corruption. In all of human history, there has never existed a system free of and immune form corruption. This is the biggest problem I see with TZM/TVP/Resource Based Economy theory. When such a system becomes corrupt, how do the 99% regain control when the corrupt control all the food, water, and energy resources of the entire planet?
you are not understanding how this works apparently. the resources that are controlled right now by money are all resources we dont want to use. no money = no fossil feuls. secondly nobody will ultimate control of any resources. the resources will start locally each community will be in charge of making sure everyone has wireless electricity, clean water, housing, and food for their communities. where does this power your talking about come from? nobody will have the ablity to flip a switch or control the worlds resources like they are right now through money. how can control resources in Brazil if you live in England? fly over and turn off everyones lights and hold the food hostage? come on man. seriously that doesnt even make sense.
even the people creating and building the wireless power plants and cutivating the food and digging the wells for their communities decide to get greedy or demand something, they will literally be threatening the lives of that community and i dont know about you but i dont know too many people that would stand for that.
Every necessary resource cannot be produced locally, so you are going to need trade between communities. What happens when the communities in the food producing regions and the communities with fresh water sources realize that the communities in the desert really have nothing that they need, so they just trade between themselves and let the desert-dwellers starve?
You don't need to provide a specific answer to this questions--I'm just trying to get you to think this trough a little more and see the potential problems.
what necessary resources cannot be produced locally?
Ask the people in Alaska why they can't grow wheat. Ask the people in Benin why they don't 'source their own water locally'.
Benin is a tropical, sub-Saharan nation, highly dependent on agriculture, with substantial employment and income arising from subsistence farming.-wiki
sounds like they will be an asset to africa not a hinderance. not a good idea to let the people who make the food go thirsty, lol.. or anyone for that matter.
wow you cant figure this out for youself. is Alaska on a different planet? No its connected to an continent. only about 750k peope live there. can we not grow wheat in all of north america? does canada grow wheat? does America? your thinking too small. think bigger. these are easily solved issues. Benin is one of the smallest provinces of Africa you really think there people will deprive them of clean water the way America and the coporatocracy has done to several nations even with money. come on. i know you can do better than this....
So you're not proposing a local system, you're proposing...a continental system? Global system? You've lost me a bit here. When you said "every necessary resource can be produced locally", I thought you meant, well, "locally". If you meant 'globally' then we need to start over, because that is an entirely different discussion.
yes there will be multiple networks in place from local to eventually intercontinental. but it starts locally and progresses from there. once the individual communities select representatives and establish infastructure then they can expand their network to local regions then local countries and yes eventually when the world democracy is established then the world network becomes a reality. all cultures working together exchanging information and ultimately goods and services. we are already on the world network. we have everything in place to communicte globally. we just need a plan. not random protests. im talking about a billion man march which culminates with the world simultaneously destroying all currency. after we all connect and the network has been established and a few people can speak for their local communities on a larger stage. this can all be done online. except for the march of course. that we actually have to get off our fat american asses and actually do. One single act of unity and collective solidarity will seal the deal. then we establish which laws are necessary and which are not and begin to rebuild this world to a much higher standard of living for everyone.
we shouldnt even be talking to the government. they have never had our best interests in mind. we should do this independantly of all centralized goverments via the internet.
your "what if scenarios" are fun to answer. lol. every community will have fresh water, i dont know if you are aware but fresh water comes from the ground. do you have the ground where you are? every region will be sustainable of eachother. every region will produce its own food for the people by the people. ive said this over and over. read and try to understand what i am saying. comprehend and imagine what im talking about instead of trying to find loop holes and what ifs. because i can answer all of them trust me. ive already had all theses questions many times. your just shooting yourself in the foot if you think you will find an air hole in my philosophy because its air tight friend.
and yes of course people are going to want to try other peoples foods and live in their houses and its as simple as getting on the train that will take you anywere in the world in 2hrs or less and you can eat indiginous food with the people who make it. and im sure if your nice they will give you more than you need to take home with you. or maybe you could do your trade and barter system with someone in the town. you bring some of your food or goods and trade for some of theirs. wow. what a concept. and as far a regions trading with eachother im sure that will happen too. but it will have nothing to do with a value system. im sure alot of regions will swap things and share with eachother. one person or organization will not have power to tell people they cant trade with eachother or even be able to control that. if you dont want to share you dont have to. but i can promise you will get 10 times what you give making you truly wealthy.
I live in an area with fertile soil and fresh ground water. My community is doing great with this self-sufficiency thing. But the people in the Sudan do not have ground water and do not have arable land to grow food. IN two hours, they have taken your high speed transportation and arrived in my community en masses, and they want--they need-- our food and water. We don't really want or need the goats they have brought to trade with us. Now what?
wake up man they dont want to live in your community. they will just move to an available water source. why do you think certain parts of the world are not inhabbited because us people only live in areas we can survive in. if they cant survive in Sudan then there are lots of places they can. the idea that people with goats show up on your doorstep is absurd. your that ego centric to think that an entire region of people will depend show up to a town of 5000 demanding to be taking care. you are in dreamland. these people will find a place to call their own they dont need you and your food and water. how old are you?
This is patently untrue. People live in lots of places that do not have the resources they need locally. You are aware that people live in Sudan now, right? How about Arizona? Why don't the people in Ethiopia just move to where there is food?
And please, for the sake of the movement, humanity and in the interest of society, try to refrain from insulting people. It really doesn't move the conversation forward.
if you took offense to that, that means its true which would be honesty. not insulting. truth hurts. Im from all over Arizona, and it is one of the most diversely constructed state. one of the only states that you can go to sand dunes, play in the snow up the mountains, and lay out at the lake in the same day. Arizona is not a good example because its not just all desert. now Nevada. thats a good example. all these places your knit picking about have resources available to them by the larger community they are networked with. and people dont move from ethiopia because the monetary system has enslaved many cultures not just ethiopia into poverty. they cant go anywhere under this type of system.
Anyone who takes offense at your insults is evidence that you are right, huh? Good luck with that.
how did i insult you?
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http://www.southparkstudios.com/clips/165188/im-stephen-abootman
I'm seeing some similarities here...
I wish more people would see that!