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Forum Post: We are being HIJACKED!....maybe....

Posted 13 years ago on Oct. 17, 2011, 1:10 p.m. EST by Halim (135)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

Everyone I know a lot of you support MoveOn's help, but we need to stop and think about a few things. When Obama was running I got an email everyday from MoveOn asking me to "mobilize" and donate to his campaign.

We cannot become Obama's reelection campaign or a "democratic party" movement. The 2 parties have betrayed us, and the only way for OWS to work is if we remain separate from them. Just remember Obama's top contributor was Goldman Sachs. Who's voice do you think is more important to Obama, ours or the big banks that funded him. We can't let ourselves get hijacked like other groups have (the actual original tea party is one movement that supposedly got hijacked).

The 1% have realized that we are not going anywhere, so they figure they can use their money to divert our path to something more helpful for them....

53 Comments

53 Comments


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[-] 9 points by antipolitics (127) 13 years ago

we have to unite, the people's movement, no mater your party... Get The Money Out Of Politics

[-] 4 points by Halim (135) 13 years ago

Exactly!

[-] 2 points by antipolitics (127) 13 years ago

Let's have a Mosh Pit with the Tea Party... maybe we can meet in DC...

[-] 2 points by BrainC (400) from Austin, TX 13 years ago

I'm good with that...

[-] 1 points by Halim (135) 13 years ago

Uhhhh....not the current tea party. Maybe the tea party of a few years ago. And that would still be a small maybe

[-] 2 points by antipolitics (127) 13 years ago

The Tea Party is made up of the People... I'm sure we can get the people involved, maybe even some of their leaders, but we both must rise-above

The establishment would like nothing more then to divide us, diluting both our messages.

[-] 0 points by Rob (881) 13 years ago

I would have joined OWS a month ago, but the OWS of today, no siree. You are now a left wing orginization taken over by soros and unions.

[-] 1 points by Halim (135) 13 years ago

Thats not true, we pretty much averted being hijacked. We don't like Obama or Soros....

[-] 1 points by ZombiesAteYourBrains (23) 13 years ago

As Karl Marx put it: Working men of the world, unite! 100 years later, the Soviet union that had made the same promises your want fell apart while America prospered under freedom and Capitalism.

[-] 1 points by antipolitics (127) 13 years ago

Capitalism is bailing out Multi-national Corporations and Billionaire Bankers?

[-] 6 points by bron020 (12) 13 years ago

i agree I don't want any party infiltrating our movement

[-] 5 points by marhuff55 (6) 13 years ago

Guys, please, whatever you do, do not, and I say again, do not let party liners from both sides take you over and dictate to you, what you should do. Both sides are working their way into your ranks, and it will only create violence against you in the end. They do not want you to succeed, not when big money is at the top of both of their agendas. You are nothing but a thorn in their side, and they will do whatever they can to see this protest taken down. Good luck to all of you, and bless you all for waking up, and seeing the garbage they have been feeding the people for so many years. marhuff55

[-] 4 points by Halim (135) 13 years ago

Now is the pivotal movement. If we make concessions like this we will fail. The 99% have to remain strong!

[-] 4 points by LetsGetReal (1420) from Grants, NM 13 years ago

Halim,

Unless and until OWS repudiates the organizational endorsements it has been publicizing, it will be seen as a Dem front group.

A great first step towards eliminating corporate personhood would be a movement which does not accept endorsements or membership from any organization, only real people.

[-] 2 points by e000 (371) 13 years ago

I agree - if all endorsements or donations or assistance are only allowed to come from "Some Guy", without any opportunity for "Some Guy" to tout his line in accordance with his donation, or from anonymous, with the same restrictions (no mentioning your line when donating, to prevent manipulation or unfair sway), then the movement can safely accept this assistance, but anything less rigorous is a serious risk.

That's not to say don't let "Some Guy" tout his line by voting, and debating, in the appropriate forum, eg. the local assembly, just that it should never be tied publicly or privately to his donations. No eyes should see the two together. In that sense, maybe making all donations and assistance anonymous might be safest, and only accepting that assistance which can be given in that fashion. That cuts the tie to the giver, and only genuine givers will use such a distancing method (since their purpose is really just to support the movement, and nothing more).

[-] 1 points by odiug (93) 13 years ago

What about transparency ? We do want to know who is giving money to what purpose!

[-] 1 points by e000 (371) 13 years ago

Why? As long as no one knows where a donation came from, it can't be used as a bribe. It can only be used as a donation, and therefore, only those who really just intend to give something away to benefit the whole (rather than use it to sway people, or as an ego boost) will donate.

[-] 1 points by freedomfighter777 (156) 13 years ago

agreed... But we also need a solid direction and and end game to achieve those directives I feel that we need some kind of loose knit structure of trusted advisers in each Occupy city to help solidify our message and keep the special interest from infiltrating our ranks.

[-] 2 points by e000 (371) 13 years ago

How about a rotating group, to ensure no one person can consistently steer events and opinion to their personal desires?

grin Boy is this starting to sound familiar, hehe...

[-] 1 points by Halim (135) 13 years ago

100% agreed.

[-] 2 points by JeffJ (8) 13 years ago

Absolutly right. Obama is part of the 1%. He is just a lot of talk. The two party system is broken. The only way to fix it is to get the money out of politics & I'm not smart enough to know how to do that. Vietnam Protesters said stop the War. OWS needs to say " Stop the Greed " nothing else is necessary.

[-] 2 points by metapolitik (1110) 13 years ago

Fuck MoveOn

Fuck Democrats

..and:

Fuck Obama!

Both parties are now owned by Wall St.

Which is why when you here politicians and Wall St. talk about "bi-partisanship", it's really just code for: "We win either way"

Chris Hedges explains succinctly:

http://metapolitik.org/blog/chris-hedges-explains-fascism-of-tea-party

MASS EXODUS!

Vote Green for once!

http://metapolitik.org/content/time-green-president-draft-jill-stein-us-president-2012

[-] 2 points by SanityScribe (452) 13 years ago

The group that organized this..Adbusters is from Canada. They are openly anti-capitalists. They started OWS.

http://www.adbusters.org/about/adbusters

http://activistcash.com/organization_overview.cfm/o/36-adbusters

However I see that the movement has attracted more then the anti-capitalists crowd. I'm not sure they counted on that. Now the people are taking notice of the movement. I am not surprised to see other political types try and step in. When they unleash the “real” agenda, I think most PEOPLE involved in this movement will recognize that. I have witnessed the awakening of many people, who came here for information.

[-] 2 points by nietzsche (34) 13 years ago

The longer this movement goes without a central theme ("we are mad" just wont cut it) the more open to manipulation by outside sources you will become. When people go home and turn on their TVs they see the same thing every day, anger and discontent...yet no clearly stated reason why. Person A will say they want people convicted. Person B wants student loans forgiven. Person C wants corporations split up. Person D wants to save the whales. Person E doesnt know why they are there, they are just doing what everyone around them is doing.

If you take to the streets out of anger and have no clear message you will be eaten by another group that does have a message...even if its not your message.

[-] 2 points by e000 (371) 13 years ago

I agree with this, as well - there has to be 1) a mechanism to measure the majority wishes of the movement organized by a central body but in complete, unprecedented transparency, and 2) there then has to be a similar organizing body (perhaps different from step 1 to prevent manipulation) to plan and develop action around the majority wishes. If there is no action, this entire movement will eventually dwindle out.

[-] 2 points by nodedog (16) from Santa Fe, NM 13 years ago

One of the reasons that I decided to become involved with Occupy was because of the lack of desire for our elected officials to communicate with us. All important communications come from our party's sparring with each other, or from important individuals who are likely part of the 1%.

I don't know what to do about the problem of voting. I guess that this is an individual decision about whether to support Obama or someone else. However, our voting system is broken, and Occupy addresses this problem.

So no, I don't want to see Occupy support Obama or anyone else. These will get us mired in these politics that are a distraction from speaking about the basic problems. It will frame Occupy in an entirely different light.

[-] 1 points by ZombiesAteYourBrains (23) 13 years ago

Maybe You Occupy Wall street Bull-Slingers should spend your time looking for jobs, not trying to ruin America. And by the way, I really hate to break it to you, but your not the 99%. Your the 1% of lazy greedy idiots who are partly the reason America is the mess that it is. Bummer.

[-] 1 points by Skippy2 (485) 13 years ago

I have a confession to make. This thread seems to be an appropriate place. I was active in the Original Tea Party. I went to town meetings,carried signs and enlisted family and friends to join. I woke up one day and found the Tea Party highjacked by the professional politicians of the Republican party. I bailed in disgust. Please heed my warning. Do not let any professional politician or established support organization for them near our movement. I support this movements original goals. Soon, I fear, this movement will be swallowed by those it was intended to fight. When that happens, I will bail again and wait for the dawn of a movement strong enough to resist the Corporations and Professional Politicians. May God save us all.

[-] 1 points by LetsGetReal (1420) from Grants, NM 13 years ago

In retrospect, were there warning signs that this was happening? What do you think might have prevented this Skippy?

[-] 1 points by Halim (135) 13 years ago

Comeon people!

[-] 1 points by debdaveandpets (34) from Ironwood, MI 13 years ago

Please use credit unions because one person one share in the credit union. Also try to buy from cooperatives like ocean spray. co-ops are good because one person can not control it again one person one share, the 1% could not be that if most all companies were cooperatives, start buying, working, and banking with cooperatives and credit unions, if most of us do the power of the 1% will shrink. Please pass this message on!

[-] 1 points by mrbond (25) 13 years ago

This movement did start as an organic lobby against corporate greed. Being co-opted as a political machine, especially during an election race, is all to plausible. ’B’ list celebrities and this side/that side political parties could/will attempt to politicize and makes partisan even the most important of issues. “Sympathizing with OWS” does not mean ‘On their (OWS) side’. Once the issues of OWS become just another “conservative” thing, all hope of solid victory is lost.

[-] 1 points by grp8011 (7) 13 years ago

Republicrats ALL!

They learned to LIE in Poly-Sci!

American JUNTA!!!!

[-] 1 points by freedomfighter777 (156) 13 years ago

Vote libertarian there is only one candidate with integrity who hasn't flip flopped or changed his position in 30yrs. The same candidate who refuses to take a congressional pension wants to minimize government and give us the power we need to take our constitutional power back we are suppose to be running this country not these puppets they put in front of us.

[-] 0 points by Student (94) 13 years ago

Same candidate who wants to let the banks govern themselves and cut EVERY regulation that there is...

[-] 2 points by freedomfighter777 (156) 13 years ago

No that would be false again you might want to educate yourself. This would be the candidate who wants to remove banks from government by eliminating the federal reserve, which is a private bank that controls our currency. Aslo shrinking the power of the federal government dramatically by returning the power back to the people as stated in the constitution which is rarely fallowed. This is NOT the country our forefathers intended us to live in.

               "I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies. If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their currency, first by inflation, then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around [the banks] will deprive the people of all property until their children wake-up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered. The issuing power should be taken from the banks and restored to the people, to whom it properly belongs" ~Thomas Jefferson
[-] 0 points by Halim (135) 13 years ago

We need a whole new constitution. The constitution is not some holy sacred bible for the nation. It was written when we were small, had no technology, and were mostly agricultural.

[-] 1 points by freedomfighter777 (156) 13 years ago

If you understood the constitution its application is still relevant and effective. It is its practice that has fallen off the lack of constitutional use is whats costing us to loose our rights and freedoms.

[-] 1 points by tr289 (916) from Chicago, IL 13 years ago

You already have been hijacked... By yourself. You all couldn't put aside the petty differences and lost sight of the original message. The professionals are now moving in and you will be enslaved by the same people you think you are protesting against.

[-] 3 points by LetsGetReal (1420) from Grants, NM 13 years ago

I don't think it is too late to change course, but merely saying 'we are non-partisan' while accepting partisan endorsements and involvement is not enough.

[-] 2 points by e000 (371) 13 years ago

I agree. You can always change course, as long as you do so as a genuinely unaffiliated body of people, excluding none. I think individual and anonymous endorsements and donations are really the only "safe" support.

[-] 2 points by tr289 (916) from Chicago, IL 13 years ago

Maybe I'm wrong, maybe it's not to late... The problem is getting the message out and getting the stupid to stop fighting over fantasy land politics before the professionals take over completely. Just a generalized statement, Most of the OWS protesters are nothing more then children. What is the chance of them growing up and beating back the people who have been brain washing the heard for 20, 30, 50 years ?

[-] 1 points by LetsGetReal (1420) from Grants, NM 13 years ago

I understand your frustration and I share it. I do try to remember that calling them stupid or sheeple, etc probably won't win them over though.

[-] 2 points by tr289 (916) from Chicago, IL 13 years ago

But that's what they think of us and that's how they control us. If you really step back and look at the masses, they act exactly like a heard. When 1 runs they all run. When 1 is calm they are all calm. When 1 sleeps they all sleep. So far all the OWS protests have been is a growing heard locked in their pen going MOOOO. No one agrees on anything and very few even understands what it is they are doing or protesting for.

[-] 1 points by LetsGetReal (1420) from Grants, NM 13 years ago

I agree with you to a large degree. I'm just saying that approach matters a great deal. Are the protesters more likely to listen and respond to people who tell them they are cows who don't know what the hell they are doing, or to people who make them feel good and like they are doing something important?

[-] 1 points by tr289 (916) from Chicago, IL 13 years ago

I can be overly harsh at times. I would make a better Drill Sargent then motivational speaker. =)

The happy feel good party atmosphere doesn't seem to be working. This is a serious issue, this movement means a lot to a lot of people... Maybe it's time we take it seriously ?

[-] 1 points by LetsGetReal (1420) from Grants, NM 13 years ago

LOL Sargent.

I think it is serious. OWS may crash and burn, but the deep, pervasive current of anger at the corruption in government is very real and will be mobilizing.

[-] 1 points by number2 (914) 13 years ago

exactly

[-] 0 points by ChristopherABrownART5 (46) from Santa Barbara, CA 13 years ago

Yea, moveon. I really do not think they support the US constitution. In order to deal with the issues, we will need an Article 5 convention.

There is a skype conference effort starting.

http://www.articlevmeeting.info/

Article V conference, Mark Meckler Lawrence Lessig at harvard 9/25/11-video comments http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T-7ikbvu0Y8

Lessig power point on article V http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4gpbfY-atMk

Lots of facts here about Article V. http://algoxy.com/poly/article_v_convention.html