Forum Post: We are being co-opted by Adbusters and supporters of the Robin Hood tax!
Posted 13 years ago on Oct. 31, 2011, 3:10 a.m. EST by sudoname
(1001)
from Berkeley, CA
This content is user submitted and not an official statement
Not good!
Adbusters is advertising the robin hood tax ( http://www.adbusters.org/ ). Mainstream media is reporting that we are behind it. But NOBODY here is talking about it. Many people say this tax is dangerous, especially if it's being done by a central authority, and used to fund whatever they want. This nonsense must be stopped.
http://www.adbusters.org/blogs/adbusters-blog/hey-g20-here-comes-robinhood.html <- can comment here w/o registering
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/10/24/occupy-wall-street-g20_n_1028843.html <- actually reporting correctly
I have a big concern that Ron Lawl, the biggest Libertarian of them all, is trying very hard to co-opt ows - he is very much trying to capitalize on those who are "down with the FED" problem is, is exactly what this article talks about, catch them on those few little wish list items and a "sure let's legalize pot" and, bam! sparkly, sparkly - it seems like the Utopian world ahead... problem is no one paints that picture of what the world will be like after they're done deconstructing 150 years of social and legal progress in this country. You can just throw that word equality right out the window, there will be the differing level of have nots, those few with jobs, and those dying in the shanty towns in the streets. Anyway, I keep finding links, particularly on Youtube, where Ron Lawl supporters (inside men?) are utilizing clips and the "99%" to elude to a connection to OWS. An example in point http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XB7PwcC9qzw&feature=share, watch this video then click on the link of the guy who uploaded it and you will find a pretty interesting page that also make an allusion to media blackouts... think it's about OWS, but then you find out it is a Ron Lawl snake hole... I don't know how we deal with this kind of stuff but there definitely needs to be some communication. I am with #occupyiowacity (IA) and we do not have the resources that you do in terms of think-tanking how to keep Ron Lawl and others who want to co-opt (or send in campaign recruiters). I don't want our movement to turn into a Ron Lawl rally. He is the only Republitarian who has not bashed the OWS, but says he supports them: see his message to OWS on Youtube as well. I think this guy is a snake and he thinks he's found the garden of Eden (with reportedly 1/2 mil in the bank)... see where I am going with this... 1. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0UNlSY1LNEY 2. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ieJmrxV1Hk4 3.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vqau48Wz4O0 4. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=33dKgKc1SrM and well, they go on and on and on... I don't want us to wake up one morning and find out we've all been sleeping again. Ron Lawl gets in here, most of us are out of here. (forum won't let me spell out Mr Ron P's last name correctly?)
I worry about unprincipled academic anarchic activists like David Graeber making occupy communities some sort of experiment in anarchist anthropology. Paranoid? Change, protest, in this country and most other Western nations, always involves the Reds, the Blacks and shades in between. Have to find some common goals people would die for...really. Simple, easily understood goals, Arrived at by consensus. I've participated in these creations and it takes time. People I think had a better understanding of political theory and practice back in the Sixties. Many OWS participants seem to be political virgins. One must give these people something to focus all that energy on before it freezes up: a specific, actionable "cause." When I hear concepts like "we are the change, we don't need demands or goals" on an OWS General Assembly forum I freak out, and this becomes more evidence in my mind that the occupy tent cities are ends in themselves. Platforms for a social and political experiment in being. Wild, huh? Intentional communities have been around for a long time, too, but this one is not another commune -- this community promises to change the world. Hopeless people latched onto this. I think OWS has a moral obligation to the commonweal to target in a big way an actual action item:)
The fear on all sides, I think, is that old, and extremely well-developed American talent for co-option. There are many powerful interests in play here and they will all try with their unlimited resources to move OWS in their direction or neutralize or destroy it. This is to be expected. The Obama campaign has operatives everywhere, and so does Ron Lawl. Dr. Paul is a little more universal with his outreach: his people even show up on /b/. Some of the police are bought by financial interests. Police have infiltrated all Occupy groups, and if martyrs are "created" half of them are the result of police provocateurs.
To compound things, Americans have been operating without community or meaning for at least twenty years now. The young have never known the passion that arises from embracing something outside their narrow personal pleasure and interests....until now. A Volatile situation that amoral, cynical interests can and will exploit unless strong countermeasures arise. The goal for everyone interested and involved should be to keep this energy on a productive and objective path to develop Occupy grievances into specific action items that are implemented quickly.
I certainly agree. Without ANY goals, or a spokesman group of individuals within the movement will begin to get frustrated, as I think many already are. They need to be reminded WHY they are here. The OWS rallys all over the world are all making desires (if not demands), that IMO, are loud and clear, primarily that of reformation through the cleansing of governmental corruption. This has been a global call to action... however, without action people will begin to lose steam and begin feeling aimless... a most vulnerable step in a movement's development. That moment of vulnerability is precisely when those with their own agenda can, fairly successfully, morph seamlessly into the movement grabbing one person's hope for outcome with a few well placed "carrots". A purely psychological takeover because these "memes" for lack of a better word, will grow from one mouth / mind to another. You are correct in that this generation are embarking on their first voyage into politics, that is what is so inspiring to me, a child of the 60's, to see. The sheer force and will of this maiden voyage, is tremendous in its global resonance, of the like never seen before. What politician wouldn't want to sneak into the (seemingly) unmanned helm of this and declare himself captain? The timing of this movement is pivotal in that it proceeds one of the most important campaigns for presidency in 100 years in that whatever happens now will set the sails for our country both sides claiming that the other will bring us to the same fate as the titanic. What better time for political action groups, utilizing the same stealthily orchestrated "buyout" tactics that silently took over the republicans, democrats and libertarian and tea parties.
Right now, this movement is at the most vulnerable point in its progression, the initial call has been globally heeded, people have taken to the streets in peaceful resistance, they have steadfast in the face of the initial reactionary tactics maintaining, mostly, peaceful. A badly timed winter is upon us which will, in time with wet, freezing conditions in combination with increase in efforts of the political and corporate machines via police brutality, litigation and media smearing / fear mongering campaigning and increased attempts at co-opting, will either make or break us.
The biggest danger we have as a movement at this point is co-opting. We have numbers, we have and will continue to receive, donations, so we have money. Combined, an irresistible scent to usurpers and enemies alike, who will spend money, to gain or destroy this collective power. There must be to be a plan of consensus in place, shared by all the differing locations, in how to watch out for and resist being dissolved, one individual at a time, into differing political and or social "action" groups, be it Dr, Paul, Moveon, move to action, adbusters, or others created for the purpose of luring us. We need to consider becoming our own organized action group with demands, or we must continue in the same vein as we have, with protective groups in place to negate attempts at media slandering, creating media of our own disclaiming that we support any group, party, candidate, We must maintain transparency, particularly financial, showing the world where our money comes from and where it is spent. Not buried amongst GA minutes, but with an open set of accounting books put where any member of the public can view it.
These are my concerns and my suggestions. I would very much like GA discussion in all locations of these larger matters as they are beginning to cause suspicion among us and the public who support us, planted no doubt by the opposition on our own forums, mainstream media and commentary to electronic media. We can't get caught up in just dealing with day to day survival issues and allowing these dissensions and vulnerabilities to grow.
I write this, straight from my head to this forum with no editing. Therefore, I may not be as articulate as I could be. I speak for myself as a staunch supporter, not for any group. However, I do not assume I am the first to have these concerns or the first to speak of them. I, as so many of us do, want to see us remain strong and cohesive throughout all of our stages of development and the vulnerabilities that inevitably come with them. Vulnerabilities which have the potential for becoming out of hand as a purely democratic group with no appointed leadership. As we grow we must be mindful of these issues as both individuals and as a whole.
We cannot ignore that the first, and largest OWS group is looked to as a natural model and serves, whether they wish it or not, the NYC GA is natural leader of this movement. Many of the decisions that are made and internal organization that is achieved is emulated. Many individuals and groups come here for advice and example. It is a burden to bear I have no doubt, but it is one that must be accepted.
This experiment in Direct Democracy by anarchists has been effective in attracting alot of attention. This movement has managed take advantage of every social/political/economic frustration to gain attention.
However, Direct Democracy in a park will not translate to the government of a country that is the greatest country on earth and leader of the free world.
Our Founding Fathers, in their wisdom, gave us a Representative Republic. No way is a group of anarchists going to improve on what our Founding Fathers gave to us.
I suppose the 98.99% should give proper credit to the anarchists for launching this experiment. It has helped us to discuss and speak out about many legitimate frustrations and problems in our country.
However, no OWS GA will ever take up the legitimate demands of the majority (ie: campaign finance reform, financial reform, corporate personhood) with the purpose of affecting change through government. Because this is not their goal. Their goal is to use the majorities legitimate frustration to gain support for one thing: Direct Democracy.
I believe that 99.99% of people will reject Direct Democracy beyond the park. It is up to the 98.99% to move our legitimate issues with government out of the park. To work with government and through government to enact the positive changes that we want for our country.
Hmm yeah. But this problem could be much bigger than who is the president of the US.
Nobody is talking about the tax here, but the media is reporting that it's "our" tax.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/kenrapoza/2011/10/27/occupy-wall-streets-robin-hood-tax-a-tough-sell-at-g20/
http://www.vancouversun.com/news/Occupy+Vancouver+marches+support+Robin+Hood/5628638/story.html
You are the movement. Make what you want of the movement.
Oh and sometimes endurance is the only truth that matters blah blah good luck
You guys have 9 demands that you were considering ? You might want to release them for public discussion - also it seems to me Occupy is more about community and direct democracy skills building - nice to see something happen that isn't materialism for a CHANGE - you can actually believe in - from Oz... have fun and does the media matter much anyway -they are the system, of course they are going to manipulate and misinterpret - the mini global community you have started is where an enduring political power can reside - allow off shoot groups to launch specific campaigns - stay an engine of democracy and never turn your new machine off. never forget never forgive - become part of the intellectual and political infrastructure of the 21st century
Some links to the truth about Obama and Romney and all OWS should know:
http://www.factcheck.org/barack-obama/
http://www.factcheck.org/tag/mitt-romney/
Top 20 recipients of Wall Street Funds: http://www.opensecrets.org/industries/summary.php?ind=F07&cycle=All&recipdetail=M&sortorder=U
Historically, which party receives more from Wall Street? http://www.opensecrets.org/industries/summary.php?ind=F07&cycle=All&recipdetail=A&sortorder=U
David Cameron ran on the Robin Hood Tax as his platform: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/banksandfinance/7487081/Conservatives-will-impose-tax-on-banks.html
Noam Chomsky on the State-Corporate Complex: http://chomsky.info/talks/20110407.htm
Noam Chomsky's Manufacturing Consent: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PQhEBCWMe44
How can you be co-opted by your FOUNDERS? Ad Busters CREATED Ocuppy Wall Street. Get it? You are a product of a corporation -- funny huh?
Yeah, pretty ironic. A few people were mentioning that Adbusters has all sorts of ties to big money, through this "tides" foundation in san francisco. But there were news articles denying this. ARR! Can't trust the news. Gotta consider the ideas of the "conspiracy theorists" sometimes.
Im sure all these videos on Youtube connecting OWS to the Robin hood tax doesn't help matters much... http://www.youtube.com/results?search=Search&resnum=0&oi=spell&search_query=ows+robin+hood+tax&spell=1&suggested_categories=25%2C29&sa=X
Yeah, that sure doesn't help. They all seem to be professionally made videos. These guys look like paid actors: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lG2udS-gKQc
The reason it looks professional is because this group is blantanly co-opting the movement to their own agenda... This is the sort of thing we need a group - or the media group, to respond to. Maybe a disclaimer on the website... Saying something to the effect of: We are not aligned with or endorse ANY presidential candidate, or grassroots organization. There may be those inspired by OWS 's call to attention of the serious issues this country has, however we are all the 99% but they are not OWS and OWS is not them... yada yada...
Here's the group behind the whole Robin hood Tax thing: http://www.youtube.com/user/movetoaction
It's all very true. A media group would be excellent for things like this. Or at least some sort of executive group that can act quickly without the need for a general assembly.
To me, this movement is partly about getting money out of politics, but mostly it's about getting people to talk about things and learn what is going on.
Yes, adbusters is co-opting the movement. The sentiment is nice, but if there is no control over where the tax is going, well, we know how that goes.-------
sudoname wrote: but mostly it's about getting people to talk about things and learn what is going on.END----
Free speech is SERIOUSLY abridged. That is -dynamic- abridgement to human existence in north America. A babylon effect, particuarly with the possibilities of media programming over a generation. Consider the daily general assemblies.----
I've been to such things when they were first concieved in the creation of indimedia. I saw a group, illogically aligned, block solid proposals and provide no reasoning for their position. Eventually they made the group decision up on their own and that was the end of it just ro retain control.-----
Now this protest is greatly escalated, so there perhaps are more people less subject to that social conditioning involved. In which case they should eventually realize that IF they had used a logical process justifying protest, their precense would be completely lawful and efforts to impede them could be directly attributed to empowerment of treason. If that clear line of reasoning is enabled, not many cops are going to want to be associated with supression and LARGE numbers of ordinary Americans would be getting involved.
I hope so. In the end, special interests can only hire so many people to represent their special interests at these sort of meetings. Eventually, it will be clear that the special interests are a minority and devote a lot of resources to manipulating opinion.
Sorry, you guys are whatever other groups want you to be now. Remember all of the crap that got thrown on the Tea Party? Well, welcome to the party. lol
hah, yeah, that's what happens. I just feel like this was adbusters' agenda the entire time.
and that is scary.
Of course. They helped start it, they're going to use it for their purposes just like everyone else will both pro and con.
&()_ this pisses me off 1) that glenn beck was right, adbusters using us for their agenda and 2) that the grass roots part of ows, the one that feels right, is right, is going to get lost in adbuster agenda
it's true, the conspiracy theorists called it completely days ago. all that said adbusters is not innocent called it.
http://citicommons.com i am a cook/web developer, florida boy. use my real name, have a non-partisan project in place. when you guys get tired of the cheesy spy novel bs, check it out. i have been dropping links on occupy an tea party facebooks all day.
This isn't cheesy spy novel BS, it's happening right now BS!
When you have no clear message, you become a sounding board for anyone's message.
"The Occupy Wall Street demonstrators are continuing their march toward globalism as they have now endorsed a global tax system, to be instituted and monitored by a new global government. With the G20 summit set to take place November 3 in France, the directors of the Wall Street protests are now setting their sights on the implementation of the “Robin Hood tax” on all transactions involving shares, bonds, and derivatives, and possibly other items as well."
http://www.thenewamerican.com/usnews/politics/9534-wall-st-protesters-push-qrobin-hoodq-tax
When did we "push this new tax" ? Who are these "directors" that pushed it?
holy f*ck. this is what glenn beck said they would do with our movement. take it over for globalization of the economy. we need a damn media group, a press agent, a media spokesperson! if we don't have a clear message, all the fringe groups, all the things like moveon.org and adbusters who have claimed us, will take over.
We do! People were saying for weeks we need demands or someone would write them for us. A media or executive sort of group could work wonders I think.
Ugh.. well i think the tax will fail anyway, unless we want our markets to move to Russia. I hope adbusters is exposed for this.