Forum Post: Understanding the Mondragon Worker Cooperative Corporation in Spain’s Basque Country (Democracy Now)
Posted 11 years ago on March 29, 2013, 2:41 p.m. EST by struggleforfreedom80
(6584)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement
With Amy Goodman and Mikel Lezamiz.
http://www.democracynow.org/blog/2013/3/25/video_understanding_the_mondragon
Mondragon has it's flaws it has become just another oppressive corporation.. Exploitation of workers, running sweat shops, heavily state subsidized and protected from competition.
In theory it all sounds so perfect, but the reality is we are competitive by nature and will exploit and abuse others to succeed. Mondragon doesn't permit foreign workers to join and is perfectly willing to mistreat non-members.
http://www.cooperativeconsult.com/blog/?p=490
http://trustcurrency.blogspot.com/2011/01/mondragon-cooperative-built-on.html
http://www.solhaam.org/articles/mondra.html
I knew I could count on you. The minute someone posts something about existing worker-owed or worker managed enterprises, you’re always there to let everybody know all the defects. Mondragon is not perfect, I’ve said that many times, but there are some good things happening in these communities as well.
What’s good about Mondragon, in your opinion? And what did you think about the video? Do you have anything to say about what was said in the interview?
"we are competitive by nature and will exploit and abuse others to succeed."
I've countered that nonsense here: http://struggleforfreedom.blogg.no/1323868733_human_nature_and_libe.html
Michael Albert counters that nonsense here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_PWZGyRW5rw
Are you like that? Do you abuse and exploit others?
Not always, I haven't had the time to drop by here in a long time.
Mondragon's basic philosophy for people to combine their resources and build a business is great. Unfortunately it's not successful on its own, it requires government help and protection.
I have no problem with any individual or group buying a business and running it as they see fit, within established laws. I have a problem with government propping up businesses that are unable to compete on their own. I do find fault with presentations that present only one side to an issue. Mondragon's philosophy is great, in practice it's not much different from any other corporation and needs to be monitored and held accountable.
I can't accept Albert's suggestion that capitalism shapes human nature. People developed capitalism and it is our nature that shaped it. It is in the nature of all life to get the most value for the least effort. Humans do tend to take care of ourself as well as our family or tribe. Tribes have always been willing to take advantage of those outside the family group.
Do I exploit others? Not in my day to day occupation or as a matter of habit. I would have to admit that in the full meaning of the word I would be willing, under certain circumstances, to exploit someone.
Well, when I post something on these topics, you show up almost every time.
You have a problem with government propping up businesses? Really? So you're against the enormous subsidies that private enterprise gets all the time?
Albert did not suggest that capitalism shapes human nature.
“It is in the nature of all life to get the most value for the least effort.”
This is not true at all. You see altruism and cooperation in nature all the time – and that certainly goes for humans as well. People help out, give, share and so on, all the time – including with people outside our “tribe” and family.
Yes I'm against subsidies.
There is certainly some altruism. You will even occasionally see it when it comes at a great cost to the giver. Unfortunately that is and has always been the exception not the rule.
“Yes I'm against subsidies.”
Ok. Subsidies, bailouts and so on is a huge part of the economy, so then you are for implementing something very different from today’s system. What do you propose?
“There is certainly some altruism. You will even occasionally see it when it comes at a great cost to the giver. Unfortunately that is and has always been the exception not the rule.”
Things like solidarity, altruism, cooperation and so on are natural human feelings. Unfortunately we have a system that encourages us, and in many cases forces us, to be greedy and cynical.
Subsidies reflect a level of self interest that people in the effected business have. I'd like to see them stopped in all cases. Unfortunately in private business or cooperatives, people vote benefits for themselves, so subsidies are not likely to end, no matter what system you have.
I make no specific proposal for a new economic system. I favor personal ownership and a profit motive. I would like better regulation of what we have, but see regulated capitalism as a better fit for us and our nature then socialism.
We may or may not have the level of altruism you would like to ascribe to human beings. However laying the fault on an economic system for human greed and cynicism people seems backwards. Trade, commerce, free enterprise all were developed and modified by man over the centuries. If it is a corrupt system we made it so. It's our creation it didn't corrupt us we corrupted it.
Governments continually prop up business since beginning -- the colonies were founded on that. Boeing gets huge tax breaks, as do many businesses. Is that not propping up business. Many businesses get propped up.
If you want to stop that and other waste http://www.InitiativesAmendment.org/ give power back to citizens
You have the people's backing http://www.debate.org/opinions/should-the-government-intervene-with-the-free-market-and-save-failing-businesses according to this