Forum Post: Ultimate Answer to America's Problems
Posted 12 years ago on Feb. 6, 2012, 10:22 p.m. EST by caughtya
(32)
from Elmer, NJ
This content is user submitted and not an official statement
Look through history. Every time America fell off Morally. We declined................. Slavery,we had war: Roaring 20's -Depression: Late 60's(drugs) 70's-ROE VS WADE, no prayers in school-recession: 80's greed, sex, self glorification (gold chains ,clothing), church attendance falls -drug gangs explode: 90's condoms in schools, President caught with pants down- Again recession 2000-now: Greed,self gratification,legal but unmoral laws Gay marriages businesses step on everyone to get to the top: -Today's problems!!!!!!! Get back to our founding core values!!On any dollar bill-In...GOD we trust... National Anthem 1 nation under GOD...We forgot the whole reason this nation this was created....Get back to GOD!--We will see how HE straightens this whole problem out. If you don"t Believe here is your call,the door is open If you refuse to believe it .......You are the problem!!!
"Not enough bullshit" isn't our problem, "too much bullshit" IS our problem :)
I agree. expose the truth. Not just for them us to. If you have nothing to hide you have nothing to worry about. Full disclosure would stop and embarrass Those who make their money in less then savory,and ethical ways. Decency would prevail. Greed is the one thing that drove us to be here, and will be our demise if we don't keep it in check. Morals,Values and Decency would have done that from the start
I believe in sex before marriage, contraception, and abortions. Oh wait, I don't believe in Jesus either. Quite trying to push your religion on anyone you prick.
This is about being decent, dummy, stop trying to portray your point of view as valid
Most of your points come from your religious views. Come up with something a little more credible and then we can talk.
It is difficult if not impossible to disagree with the merit of any of the simple core ideas exemplified in Jesus's life or his specific teachings, because from what I can tell they are mostly encompassed by the ideals of hard work, self-sacrifice, looking out for those around you and lending a hand where needed, and doing your best not to judge those around you for the way they live their lives. I agree with all of those teachings, and even though I am not Christian I strive to uphold those ideals in my daily life.
The catch comes when all the trappings and all the dogma applied to any one sect of Christianity simply becomes hand-waved in as part of the "teachings of Jesus" when in reality it's merely a reflection of the personal norms and beliefs of whoever happens to be reading or interpreting the Bible at any given moment. As far as I'm concerned, organized religion is often more trouble than it's worth, and often far better at dividing people than it is at uniting them. I don't agree with the teachings of Jesus because I believe in God, the afterlife, or anything else; I agree with them because as far as I'm concerned they're profoundly useful and positive ideas to live by and by doing so I make this life better for myself and those around me.
Also, I don't like the idea of giving my life and my fate over to some sort of higher power, because I personally see it as a form of intellectual and moral laziness. If God will provide for me, and God will fix the world for me, and God's plan is inevitable, then what impetus do I have to do my part to make this world a better place? Where's my responsibility to strive for myself and for my fellow man, if some other entity (whom I conveniently can't see or hear or communicate with) is going to do all the striving for me, and setbacks and defeats can just be handwaved as God working in mysterious ways?
While I'm at it, what's the point of morality at all if it's simply a matter of obedience to some other magical being (whom again, I can't see or hear or communicate with and therefore must rely on myself or someone else to determine what He is or is not saying). The point of morality is that it is almost always based on certain general absolute principles, but then you have to determine for yourself how best to apply those principles to any given situation, and a lot of those situations are messy and murky and complicated and people can start in the same place and come to radically different conclusions about what's right for them on particular issues. If you're going to go through the process of coming to grips with who you are and what you value I don't really see the use of signing God's name to what is in the end your personal struggle, and often organized religion can become an exercise in control for church leaders and a road to easy answers where none exist for followers (which as far as I'm concerned is just bad news all around).
I just want to note that I don't believe that all organized religion is or must be this, or that all religious people are morally lazy or narrow-minded and rigid, or that all church leaders are power-hungry or hypocritical, and if the preceding rant was offensive to anyone I sincerely apologize. My point is that there are many valid reasons for intelligent, honorable people to look somewhere besides God for guidance, and talking about how we all need to get on God's train or whatever the new colloquialism for conversion is if we want the country to succeed is flat-out offensive and demeaning and needs to stop.
Let us say spirituality, and throw out religion, and there will be agreement between you and me. People, of course, have a right to religion, but we must remember that religion can be divisive as well as ennobling. There was a good reason for the separation of church and state. Too many wars have been fought in the name of religion, and what we need is to come together.
Every religion feels that they are the sole conveyor of God's word. After awhile they get to believing that religion IS God! And so the conflict continues. If God was a great believer in religion, per se, don't you think He/It would have allowed only one? You see, ALL religions believe HE would have the ability to do just that.
Isanity. Sheer insanity. Why must humanity just go on doing the same things, century after century, reap nothing but mysery and go right on doing it anyway? I think Jesus on the cross really is a good metaphor for what we do to ourselves.
I hesitate to argue any religion. Not for fear of stepping on some toes but because their diversity welcomes contradiction. I believe there is a God. I just don't believe in religion. It seems to have little relationship to God at all, else we would not have these contradictions.
We are in complete agreement. I have nothing against religion, and much that is great has come out of religion, but I think the question of "God" is a matter that inevitably falls to the individual. Many who have called themselves pious have been the most evil of men, while many who have not believed in God have been the best of men. (I hate that word "men" by the way, as if women didn't exist. We need a new word that doesn't have three syllables.)
Anyway, my point is that procliming one's piety does not necessarily make one spiritual. That is between "God" and the individual, and deeds speak louder than words. Many people use piety as a pretext to abuse other people, just as many who admit they have found no evidence for the existance of God are lead by the highest of motives.
And so, in a way, I see religion as not necessarily having anything to do with spitituality, or the question od transcendent being. Yet I also see these things as what humanity must embrace to come together.
[Removed]
I never quite understood the concept of "spirituality" as distinguished from religiosity. It is still rooted in the same thing, our disposition to find patterns and causal relationships between disparate events (even where there's no actual relationship). In the modern context, there's no empirical reason why anyone should be inclined towards spirituality or religion or whatever one wants to call it. This is simply denying the obvious, intellectual laziness, wishful thinking, lack of training in "real" science, childishness, herd mentality, etc. Moreover, there's no reason why we should insist that our morality be rooted in bullshit.
That was what I thought until I was in my early thirties. I was a "strident agnostic!"
But one must finally come to grips with the totality of one's self. We were brought up in a scientific age, and we were told that science had all the solutions. Yet we must now face the fact that science does not have all the solutions. If we go down that road exclusively, we will never achieve an integrated spirit.
We are more than simply the sum of our reason. Reason is just a tool of the soul, and as such will be used towards the ends of the soul, whether for good or evil.
The truth is that we are so much more that this! Perhaps we are just stardust, but we are also the sum of our dreams and the wrath of our dreams denied. We are the totality of our memories, which are also just so much dust, and which at the same time are everything our existance is comprized of. We are both the beneficiaries and the victims of the illusion of time.
In short, we are a mystery; and out of this mystery we must cobble together something more than just the mechanisms of the physical world that we currently inhabit in order to realize ourselves. The question of existance cannot be explained by science , and even modern science recognizes that fact.
The Newtonian age is over. Partical physics tells us that matter winks in and out of existance. We have come full circle. Socrates told us this in 450 BC. The study of the interactions of matter, and the question of whether it does or does not exist, are largely irrelevent to the meaning of existance.
Once we understand this, then the really exciting journey can begin anew.
That is what I feel - make of it what you may. I have no illusions about having the ultimate answers. That is a journey we must take together.
Nice.
It's kind of like why am I hungry I just ate.
Your still hungry because you forgot to feed your spirit.
Why do you think that people with all the money they could ever spend, are not happy?
They can't buy spirit fulfillment.
EXACTLY!!!
Hey GK hope your having a good day.
Looks like you are in good form tonight.
I have had a great day! I took a long overdue trip to the foundation of creation. Well, it was actually just a day trip to restore my saniy, but I'll take what I can get.
That is a good attitude. I would expect no less from you.
Particle physics describes an understood process, of virtual particle pairs that (yes) flash in/out of existence (matter/anti-matter), but it obeys Heisenberg's uncertainty principle, and it actually doesn't violate conservation of energy (and in fact it's been replicated in experiments, look up the Casimir effect). When you said "and even modern science recognizes that fact" ... I wonder which "modern scientists" you've been talking to?
No mystery, just science, and even its "yet to be discovered" science, bullshit is still bullshit for all the same reasons it's always been bullshit (and nothing about modern science helps your argument, not even a little bit). The only thing that's become more "mysterious," is the arguments of "woo woo" artists ... narrowed over time (as we discovered evolution, the earth is round, geocentrism was debunked, etc. etc.), and now it's the stuff of flaky idiocy.
No, there's no mystery here. Everything's perfectly accounted for. Ha, ha, ha.
Sir, there is practically nothing but mystery here. Those who don't see that are either self-delluded, or simply have no imagination at all.
I remember in calculus, there's this series of formulas (from different parts of mathematics, trig, calc, and I think exponential growth equations) that all converge (and equal) each other, mathematicians like to jokingly say, it's mathematical proof of god. Well, okay ... now we have string theory (for anyone who likes super-weirdness ... although, extremely plausible super-weirdness), there's philosophers who put together a well framed argument that we're avatars inside of a computer.
Okay, well maybe a little more interesting than the old man alone on a mountaintop, who claimed to have a meaningful conversation with a burning bush, or the guy in the cave story who spoke with an angel, or (insert mythic legend of choice here) .... :)
All I can say to you in this very brief space and time is this:
Many have said, I think accurately, that philosophy began and ended with Plato. Plato saw one profound truth: that the physical world is mutable - is nothing but change and uncertainty - it is really, when we look at it in the most serious light, insubstancial and transitory.
But, strangely, we can see in things that are apparently insubstantial -a real permanence. Among these apparently insubstancial things that are permanent are truth, love, justice, asthetic beauty and harmony. This is what he meant when he said most people are in a cave, looking at insubstantial flickerings on the wall and seeing those things as reality, when there is a higher reality that we can step into which is permanent - and is an immortal joy.
Upon this realization he founded the idea of the immortality of the soul, rooted not simply in faith, but in reason, and the importance of holding to these higher truths in the face of the challenge of the lower, material order. The implications could not have been more profound then than they are today.
There is no "realization" here ... this is just poetry (and no, the implications of Plato's metaphysics are not more profound today). Same old argument, the "apparent(ness)" of god. Well, there is no apparentness of god. Truth, justice, harmony, and whatever other soothing words you bring to the argument, are humbled by real science.
Science is a tool that can be used for good, or evil. It has made great achievments in both area's and left the real questions unanswered. I come from a long line of scientists, and rank most of them among the clueless. But each to their own; everyone seems to need a god to bow down to, even those without religion. I don't really have a problem with that, but you night read Frankenstein's monster.
Anyway, this is all getting pretty far afield of the point, which is hopefully to unite, rather then divide. We won't solve that question here.
Religion is a tool that can be used for good or evil (my shoe can be used for good or evil if I'm creative enough), but the distinction between science and religion is ... science "tests" hypothesis. Anyway, I agree, uniting is better than dividing (and religion will have to wear itself out over time, this question certainly won't be settled here).
Yes, and I am not advocating religion anyway. So, we'll just have to let that question drop, I guess, because it could burn up a lot of pixels.
exponential growth equations do not converge (and equal) each other
I wasn't implying they converge (as in convergence), as obviously exponential growth goes to infinity (and the limit does not converge to a finite number), nonetheless, it's been a while since I seen this mathematical proof (I don't have time at the moment, but I'll look it up & provide a link later).
Depends on how you understand spirituality. Myself, I've always understood it as the self-aware and rational approach to a certain set of human emotional needs to which religion is the "naïve" answer. It's pointless to deny that we long for aesthetic structure in our lives, for rituals and such, but we don't have to extrapolate fairy tales from that desire to satisfy it : we can recognize it for what it is, a human need, which is dignity enough for anything, and attempt to fulfill it with those human tools we used to build religions : art.
We simply need to be clear about the place of things. It's science's role to tell us how stuff, and the world at large, works. It's methods and processes are geared to that end and terrifically good at it. It was religion's place to give an emotionally relatable account of human experience. And, piggybacking on that, to cosmologically validate the social order and authority. We could do away with that part, but not addressing the first just invites assholes to exploit it again for power, which is happening right now. Same goes for morality : let's not kid ourselves, it ends and starts with the human good.
I don't think there's anything in your statement I disagree with!
If you can't understand that . How can I even talk to you about Morals,decency values. Come on this in kindergarten stuff. Democracy rules here in America We are the majority don't like it leave !! Just don't push your twisted idea's on the 75% of Americans that believe
Of course 75% of people believe in what amounts to Santa Claus for grown ups (although I have a hard time believing such a large percentage of people are that idiotic ... I suspect many people just "go with the flow" like the good sheeple they are).
Are you equating belief in God with Santa Claus for grownups? If so, I would say that you must not be aware of the various views people hold of God. Santa Claus is not part of my conception of God.
I really enjoy so many of your comments francismjenkins. I am rather taken aback by what feels like contempt for people who believe in God. What's that about?
Not contempt for "people" who believe in god, just an overall feeling that we can do better than believing in the goblins and ghosts of our primitive ancestors, and thinking we have an invisible friend who will rescue us from ourselves. So I guess it just seems childish to me.
I'm glad to hear that you don't have contempt for people with beliefs which my seem silly to you. I hope you can understand why it may come across that way when you use terms like intellectual laziness, wishful thinking, bullshit, idiotic, Santa, childish, sheeple, and invisible friend.
I acknowledge religion probably has evolutionary roots, and for that reason I don't necessarily blame people for going along with it ... but it is a sort of "herd" mentality, it does not hold up against critical scrutiny, and in any other context, we would call such claims ridiculous (and I simply see no reason why something deserves a special pleading by caveat of being contained in an ancient book).
I will acknowledge that there is a 'herd' aspect for some people. Yet, there are many who still hold spiritual beliefs after consideration of what they have been taught. I was raised in the mormon church but left it while I was still a teen. I kept a belief in God however. I don't believe everything in Christianity, but the church I attend is cool with that. A few years back I read a survey about religious beliefs of Americans and it found that the third largest group was people who believed in God but did not follow any particular denomination. We are far more diverse than caricatures of fundamentalists.
I agree with you completely about giving anything credence simply because it is in some ancient book. I have evaluated the core teachings of Jesus and have concluded that it is a good way to live. I just try to love my neighbor and spiritual practice helps me do that.
No, religious belief doesn't hold up to critical scrutiny or scientific validation. It is non-rational - some of the best things in life are.
I agree, the core teachings of Jesus are good, and as far as I'm concerned, even if Jesus never existed, the teachings wouldn't lose a drop of its value.
My thoughts exactly.
This nation was built on Christian values that,s a fact look it up. We let all others enter with open arms. But don't try to change us the US to their ways We didn't tell Mexico speak English We don't tell Europe to observe 4th of July You live In My nation we believe in GOD as Christians since DAY1. You don't have to believe, But you can not stop it...We separate church and state so no RELIGION has the right to force a point of view. We chose to be a nation of Christians. You don't have to share this point of view, but in America majority rules, we are the majority
I have no argument with that. I am somewhat puzzled though by why a certain rather large segment of American Christians seem to be enveloped more in the Old Testement than in the New Testement. It seems to me that many Christians in this country today have either apathy or contempt for many of the most trenchant points made by Jesus Christ. Points such as "Love thy neighbour - points such as "A rich man can no more go to Heaven than a camel can pass through the eye of a needle," and instead tend to rely more upon the Old Testament.
I don't know, these are just my thoughts on the matter.
Modern American Christianity seems to me to bare less and less resemblance to the teachings of Christ as time goes on, and more and more resemblance to the values of Ancient Rome - the worship of might, and the notion that the gods bestow favor upon the strong.
Who cares what people believed two or three hundred years ago, go back a little further, and you'll find a world that believed the earth was flat. This appeal to history is, quite frankly, a ridiculous argument (and not an argument any intelligent person should seriously entertain).
You assume then the world is flat? With no beginning; therefore without end?
The cultural mindset is not a static thing; the here and now is but the product of a rather decisive past.
It is not an a appeal to history but a history that appeals; why, because we seek to know ourselves.
What are you talking about? I assume nothing, nor do I need to in order to identify bullshit when I smell it.
Home on the farm we never did have any steer; so tell me, does bullshit smell anything like horseshit? Or how 'bout bull-pussy?
I really, really, like history and philosophy... and evolution - they are all branches of the same discipline, intent on discovering ourselves.
It's very important that we understand, on the evolutionary level, what spirituality and religion are... and how and why the cultural mindset developed over time. Because it brings us to an understanding of the here and now, which helps to explain, why we feel the the things we feel; why we think the way we think...
How's that for BS?
Okay, sure it's important to understand why this stuff developed, but not because it isn't "bullshit per se" (because it is), but rather, it's important as a matter of sociological and evolutionary research (but I wasn't disputing that).
Many of the things we hold so dear today, as part and parcel of our belief system, are actually the product of religious belief over time. Ok, so today we are more secularized but the skeletal structure of that belief system still remains. You would be absolutely amazed at how much of our cultural mindset is directly related to our history as the descendant of some former thought regarding events.
Bullshit? Everything in life is bullshit; bullshit makes the world go round. And round. And round.
Very well said!
Does that mean you're ready to join my church?
Such a wonderfully narrow view of our nation and the World.
How did you come by this degree of tunnel vision?
There have always been problems of one type or another, the good old days never existed. Certain values should certainly be encouraged but you can't legislate morality. Personally I don't want some version of god or god's law forced on me anyhow.
Actually you can, Support Moral laws. Prayers in school. If you don't believe don't participate, No gay marriage-Again if you believe and have children leave the pervert porn on. Come on wake up. This is about doing the right thing This country was founded on Morals. Where are yours. Look at the dollar bill It says In GOD we trust. If you don't believe it don.t use it!!!
My personal moral code has elements from both ends of the political spectrum. On marriage I believe it leads to social stability (I would include gay marriage and encourage it), I would want steps taken to make single parenthood and cohabitation unacceptable. It's not likely to happen.
As far as god goes, I don't care what others believe, if it helps you then fine, believe. You want to pray go ahead, I don't even care if you force kids in school to pray. The country was founded on morals that have changed and evolved. It doesn't matter what I want or what you want, there is no going back.
You don't force kids to prey in school. But don't force those who what to prey, not to either. And don't force my kids to watch gay anything.! I won't force you to believe in GOD Get the idea now????
I understand your position, yes, but to me the idea of prayer isn't relevant. I don't care if it's in school or not, I wouldn't demonstrate or bother with it either way. If your religion requires prayer I would support some location where that is allowed but if a school chooses to have prayer, a moment of silence, or nothing at all just isn't important to me. I suppose that's our problem there is no way to compromise on certain issues. I wouldn't want to be force to watch gay anything either, probably not heterosexual anything as well. I believe we're all born one way or the other and someone's sexuality is none of my business, just please get a room and keep it your private business.
You wrote: "You don't force kids to prey in school. But don't force those who what to prey, not to either."
If you had written it as "prey" just once, it could be viewed as a "keystroke error". Since you used it twice, it means that you actually think you are spelling the word correctly.
It is spelled "pray".
There is an "edit" button so you can correct that which is incorrect.
You are very good at seeing the brush strokes. I ask you step back and start looking at the whole picture. No one ever critiqued MONET'S dots they only saw the big picture the whole picture
You are incorrect, yet again.
You made the statement that "no one ever critiqued Monet's dots...".
I have personally heard at least two people express their criticism of Monet's approach. One of them was my professor in Art History class.
Please refrain from making untrue statements.
We did well before God was written on our money and mentioned in our pledge, and we will do well again, with or with out the blessings of the religious. Just because God allows you to feel superior does not mean all Americans need such crutches to feel proud and self confident. You should read "The Protestant Ethic and the Spirit of Capitalism," written by Max Weber, and you'll see that God is an opiate and those that use Him, use Him to their economic advantage. I believe most religious folk are so consumed with the there after that they believe this life has to continue to be despicable. As they bitch about the atrocities, they only pray for salvation for themselves. If it is a sin to mess with the natural world and her laws, then sign me up for a one way ticket to hell.
I'll pray you find and change your ways. On judgement day don't say you weren't told.
Like I said, do what makes you feel good. But I don't need your suggestions or pity. And as for judgment day, wasn't that twelve years ago. You can never keep up with those bible thumpers and their dates.
Yeah, founding principles like "In God we trust" which our founders kept secret from us until 1956. Oh yeah, and, "under God"" which they kept secret until 1954. Or, I guess they just forgot to tell us why HE created our nation. They said, "You can't handle the truth" Or was that Nicholson, well anyway the door swings both ways. So just remember, only I get to interpret the meaning of all of this. And if you don't listen to me, .....You are the problem!!!!!
Self serving prophet, sorry, that position is already filled.
Don't touch that Google.
The real trouble arguing with an idiot is that very soon the difference between the two has blurred.
The national anthem glorifies bombs and is not the pledge of allegiance which was written by a socialist. "One nation under god" was added in the 1950s. So was "in god we trust" on the dollar bill.
I got paid in gum
I posted facts on our Christian Nation and it's history. You have to PROVE me wrong using indisputable facts like I did
Forget god get back to virtue.
I think there might be a bit of chicken and egg here. Or a vicious circle. Or feedback loop, if we feel like modernizing our metaphors.
Anyway, what I'm saying is : it seems to me if people feel the game is rigged they are less likely to play by the rules. It works for the individual and it also works, somewhat more perversely, for parents. Take for example the "child-king" phenomenon. Suppose a great number of parents come to the conclusion that hard work, discipline and fairness to others are less important to success in society than the letters and numbers on diplomas, boundless arrogance and connections. Can we then blame them for preferring the future of their kids to their moral character? Perhaps, but it is an unfortunate choice. It's because of this inertia of the system, I think, that something radical like occupy is needed to jolt us back to morality.
Second, I deeply disagree with the notion that morality needs God. I think religion can be a fine expression of a feeling of general gratitude, to our fellow humans and for the bewildering fact of existence, but I also think it is dangerous to place the source of morals anywhere else than in human good. I think we've grown up enough to do that now. We've had our tumultuous rejection of all limitations to individual freedom and now that we have to find again some moral discipline I don't think we should go back to fanciful stories. Or maybe we should, I'm not sure, but at least let's be clear as to what they are : metaphors made by humans for human good.
I don't see, in particular, how gay marriage is even related to morality. I mean, I could see it, if, for example, gay couples were demonstrably bad for the children they raise, but all the efforts put into finding out have come out negative. All of the good things religion brings we can found, and much more solidly, by reflection on human happiness, while keeping the rest merely makes it more likely that people will get fed up with arbitrary restrictions and will again throw the baby with the bathwater in general rebellion. It's a fallacy to pretend such foundation can only end in self gratification and greed. I mean, I didn't for Aristotle and that was basically his process.
Edit. Also, your whole "In God we Trust" thing only dates back to 1956. Just a factoid.
We separate God and state because we don't want the church running America. Read the Preamble to the Constitution :all based on biblical morals and values: This has always been a Christian Nation from day one! We believe in freedom. So we let perverts and other religions in. Free to believe what you want. But know that is the truth. A gay couple moved into a 20 home community, by law it's OK. Keep it concealed, I saw them in an act of affection I called the cops. LEWD behavior. After protest and court they lost and moved. That's just being vulgar to prove a point. Decency is the point. I didn't move to their neighborhood They moved into mine!!
No it wasn't . Google the Treaty of Tripoli. It passed the Senate unanimously. signed at Tripoli on November 4, 1796, Article 11 reads:
Just suck a cock already and get it over with. We all know you dream about schlongs
You wrote: "Keep it concealed, I saw them in an act of affection I called the cops."
You did what? What a cowardly thing to do. And further, I do not believe you at just your words.
If that were true, then the police would also have to treat heterosexual couples that showed affection in public in the same manner.
If you care that I would believe you, you would need to provide the date, city, state and other details so that your story could be researched and substantiated. Otherwise, I consider it a "fantasy tale" that exists in your intolerant mind.
Twist your perverted views any way you want. The one word you keep evading decent , explain to a 9 yr old boy why that man was doing what he was doing! He see's mommy and daddy. Man and woman can make children this way. That's one not the only but the reason still exists. Explain to your kids the difference. Why one is perverted and one not!!!One is a choice.
You have not yet answered my question from above. Here it is again:
I'm curious, what is your level of education? High School graduate? College degree? Master's Degree? Doctorate?
Follow a path of love and understanding, for yourself, and for others. This is the message of Jesus Christ.
It is the most "decent" way to be.
I will not get on a religious soapbox, as the purpose of these discussions is economic, not religious.
However, I will say this from a secular perspective. Being from an older generation, the decline of morals in this country during the last 50 years is undeniable to me, because I have personally witnessed it happen. I know, people will make the argument that there has always been immorality since the dawn of time. But to have personally observed the rapidity of that decline during my brief sojourn of 56 years, is more than a little frightening. If you look at history, all great civilizations that perished (if they did not perish through some type of great natural disaster) usually were preceded by moral decline and lack of will to be vigilant in the exercise of those actions necessary to preserve their empire(s). The most obvious and striking example that everyone thinks of is ancient Rome. I will not repeat their history here, but if you read up on them you will see striking parallels between their actions and ours.
What can be done? Perhaps nothing. Perhaps everything. It all starts with the individual and a commitment to live by the Golden Rule..."Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.". Too many people today live by that other golden rule..."He who has the gold makes the rules.". That is why Occupy has arisen..
I leave you to ponder this ancient proverb:
If there is righteousness in the heart, there will be beauty in the character.
If there is beauty in the character, there will be harmony in the home.
If there is harmony in the home, there will be order in the nation.
If there is order in the nation, there will be peace in the world.
At least someone gets it and is not afraid to admit it
"I come not for peace but with a sword. "
"But those enemies of mine who did not want me to be king over them--bring them here and kill them in front of me."
“If anyone comes to Me, and does not hate his own father and mother and wife and children and brothers and sisters, yes, and even his own life, he cannot be My disciple.”
Yup, seems like we're right on track.
Glad to see someone else see's this
See what? That Christ was a blood-thirty despot? Yup. At least in those passages.
This country was founded as a humanist, not Christian, nation. The founding father wrote the 1st amendment to keep viewpoints like yours from determining anything about its political life.
Hey listen, read history . We came here to start a new nation under GOD. It's in our national anthem and on every dollar bill printed then or since.That why our Military says For GOD and country .Get it straight moral decline and decency go hand in hand. Read what the passages before and after say don't try to manipulate it to your sick point of view. I give you full disclosure to truth!! History proves it Not bits and pieces used to forward some slack agenda
Do you know why the Declaration of Independence cites rights granted by "their Creator" instead of God? Because the founders did NOT want religion to be the foundation of a new country. They saw how it , especially Christianity, was used to keep the masses down in Europe and justify Monarchy.
Do you understand the reason for the first amendment? Do you understand that the United States, may not do a single thing to establish any religion in this land?
If you want to talk about history, have you read the letters between Adams and Jefferson, have you read about how high they wanted a wall separating church from state?
This country was founded by Christians, Jews, Muslims agnostics and atheists. The constitution itself was insired to a degree by that of the Iroquois Nation's constitution, written by - Oh my God! - "Pagan" Indians.
Your knowledge of history is lacking, and your view of America, and it's true greatness - diversity - is myopic.
You moved into my country. A Christian Nation. that's a fact. I have no excuse if I go to Iran,Iraq,or any other nation and try to change them. So don't do it here. Remember we allow others to come here and enjoy freedom. Not change our ways. As far as the letters from the founding fathers, correct! They did not want a church run nation(VATICAN) Just to be clear. Although our founding fathers were Christian. We have the right to choose.
Excuse me? This was an Iroquois and Sioux and Apache, and Arapaho, etc. nation before YOU moved in. It was not YOUR country: it was THEIRS. This was NEVER intended by the founders to be a Christian nation. It was intended to be utterly secular, leaving the nature of one's faith to individuals alone.
By the time the Constitution was written, this land was already inhabited by people of most major religious faiths in all of Europe. The earliest colonists consisted of Christians, Jews, and Muslims alike. They also had among them agnostics and atheists. You assertion that "your" country is Christian is nothing other than a myth.
"caughtya" = Living in a self-created "bubble of intolerance".
No I don't have to be subject to a minority point of view. In America Democracy rules. Unless 51% of Americans are gay We don't have to tolerate it Majority rules you loose. Get an education.
You wrote: "Majority rules you loose. Get an education."
How ironic and comical for someone who does not know how to spell the word "lose", but instead spells it as "loose" to say "get an education".
Understand?
I'm curious, what is your level of education? High School graduate? College degree? Master's Degree? Doctorate?
can you relate this relate to forensic accounting as stated from your profile because that made sense to me ...this is just blather not to discount you well ok - I am I am discounting you God doesn't make things happen people do.
Who made us? I said forensic account, To expose the wrong idea's, to show how we got here. Not to force an agenda How about search your self. Decency,Morals, Values, If we had GOD in there ;Occupy would not have happened.. Forensic accounting would not be necessary if we had good morals, were decent,and had good family values. Look at the whole picture. Don't pick out the brush marks. Forensic accounting is to expose the lack of values and poor behavior. Basically expose the truth . Democracy is our way! We believe in GOD: We are the majority: Don't like it MOVE or shut up
I can't believe you people gave this troll so many comments. Ignore stuff like this.
Ignore is the root word of ignorant. That's the problem: lazy I won't read this ! Ignorant-- uninformed no knowledge base. If your gunna post at least be intelligent!!
Why?
Poor choices lead to bad outcomes
God likes big dick.
Nice mouth, You probably don't know it but that,s how all of this started. People who think that kind of talk is OK....This is about MORAL decline and what happens when people like that take over!!! One word you need to learn Decency. We reap what we sow
It is ok. It's called Freedom of Speech.
If I don't like what Apercentage is saying, I can choose to not read it.
On top of that, what if Apercentage just changed the words being used, but used others, that had the same meaning, that you or someone else would fine more "acceptable"? Would that be ok?
I don't imagine you will actually answer this question. It's ok, just "ignore" it, right?
Freedom of speech is fine. Unintelligent blathering is OK too. You and the way you think are the problem. Decent people don't talk like that . People with any kind of self respect wouldn't speak like that either.(The President) You know a better quality of people. Who taught you better then that.
What if the speech is comedy?
What kind of movies do you watch, or have you watched?
I go into a movie with expectations based on a rating system. I don't approach people I don't know and just for kicks and effect start to use foul and inappropriate language. Decent remember that word?
You didn't answer my question. Here it is again:
What kind of movies do you watch, or have you watched?
Somebody ban this guy
You think like them!!! This is about Morals, obviously you don't want people to know this and it frightens you. Good!!! Look at the dollar bill. it says in GOD we trust. If you don't agree Don't use it
Legal Tender laws force "the people" to "use" the dollar.
Look it up, then report back to me on whether or not you concur.
I forgot we live an America. That's right it is the law. Don't believe it or like it leave. See how other country's entertain your views..You can't win.... you are unarmed in this battle of wits.
I just did win.
You had to admit you were wrong. You are engaging in the dissemination of false information.
Please refrain from making untrue statements.
I seek "Freedom From Ignorance".
Really?
Of course , Every time we vote for laws that are immoral , or let our values slide history has proven we decline. This is a FACT. History proves it
No, that isn't how it works.
Would you kill your kids?or let your 13-14 yr old daughter have condoms? These are immoral ways. You voted for them. Look what it got you..Once you start to slide it's really hard to stop. This opens the door for all HELL to brake loose. Just look around. this is what you get. Poor choices lead to bad outcomes.
This isn't the 14th century. Hell doesn't break loose because of immorality, which is subjective by the way. Enough with the Dominionist style thinking.
Don't be afraid of the truth. and don't pretend to be intelligent, you only expressed your pitiful point of view. Answer the question! So we really know how you are.Decent or not Moral or not
"Everytime I see a man proclaim that's he represents God, or that he's here to protect the women and children, ... I want to run and hide" - Jane Fonda
Yep, ... when you hear a guy talk about God, ... but its OK, this is just Thrassy initiating his every-minute troll fodder to engage rePuglican's & Mormon's, piss off Liberal's, ... 24-7 the KING-TROLL of OWS, King-Thrassy ( Thrasymaque )
Moral choice is the issue, If you are concerned about GOD being said you need to examine the dollar bill. Don't like it don't use it!!!!
crooks prefer to do their work in the name of God.
The US DOLLAR BILL don't have a fucking shit to do with God.
The US is a Godless country, it is a KLEPTOCRACY, a government of common criminals, a nation of spectators.
The so called 99% of the USA are the parasites of the planet.
God don't have anything to do with the fucking US Dollar.
Long ago it used to say "In GOLD we trust", ... but long ago the GOLD was stolen, so now there is nothing behind the DOLLAR, to politically cover their ass when the stole the GOLD, they put 'GOD' on the BILL for no other reason, than crooks prefer to do their work in the name of God.