Forum Post: Twinkle Stinkle
Posted 11 years ago on Feb. 28, 2013, 12:02 p.m. EST by alterorabolish1
(569)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement
I posted recently and enjoyed the discussion. BeautifulWorld posted and I watched as she got 4 twinkles very soon. Then, in a short time her posts had been down voted to 0. Other posts she made, (all concerning loving others), were voted down as well. Who is against Love?
I often check the site with little time to read, and look at the Best Comments Today to see how much interest there is on a topic. Instead of one number that is a combination of twinkles/stinkles, which can be easily be manipulated, have both the number of stinkles, and the number of twinkles listed.
This would more accurately show posts that are the most interesting.
Perhaps we need two columns , one for the most up votes and the other for the most down votes..
Best Comments of the Day:
Worst Comments of the Day:
I was actually thinking that recently too. But maybe there is no need to see the worst comments, or any value in it. Maybe it could do more bad than good. Again, something debatable.
Correct there are some vile comments..But my initial thought .. was to have the opposite views on an idea .. of discussion .. .. one group will favor one side of the idea while another will favor the other side .. but only one side makes it to the best comments list.. that aint right..
Opposing views are not necessarily wrong views .. With this system of the best comments .. only one side of the view reaches the top ..
well .. I am not trying to complain about the forum .. and not to offend anyone.. Though I do believe there may be some room for improvement .. after nearly a year or so working with this .. ideas will begin to emerge .. and improvements will be implemented .. I would like the ability to delete comments I do not like .. not just a down vote .. but that isn't too likely . haha
Perhaps we do, I'm not sure. I really enjoy reading good thoughtful posts and would be interested in which topics posters find most interesting.
If, for example, BW makes a good post about how Love is good for the world, but only has one or two points for the post. I would like to know how many Twinkles she received, (perhaps 20), and would realize the Stinkles were simply to keep her post from becoming one of the Best Comments. That wouldn't solve everything but it would be better than the current set-up.
It's a good discussion. I am glad you brought it up.
BW is always in the best comments section .. She is the "Queen BEE" ...and she was right .. Love is way more powerful than money ..
Love is an emotion ..
Money is ..an addiction .. we like to satisfy our addiction .. but the satisfaction never lasts and we want more..
Where as Love lasts Forever.
Love is the Most Powerful Force in the Universe.
As I had learned from all of the plants and pets that I have ever taken care of, love largely determined how well they realized the Vulcan salute, "Live long and prosper!" Love sustains life.
I think I need to make a correction-
In the Garden of Eden , when Adam and Eve fell from Grace , Love was lost.. to all mankind.
Will we ever get it back ? remains to be seen.
Yes, love can be lost but Adam and Eve did NOT lose love even after they had sinned -- Gen. 3:21 described clothes of skin made for them, an improvement from their fig leaves. It was only an apparent loss of love to all mankind (in the same sense that nakedness became disturbing to Adam and Eve after they had sinned). Since it was never lost in Eden, we do not need to get it back -- we only need to scrounge for it in the pockets of our ragged furs.
Believe that if you want.
We will not know Love until we return to the Garden of Eden.
There is no need to return to the Garden of Eden (I do not even know where it may be and I strongly suspect that it has already been ruined by salt and the disappearance of ground water) if we make this place the New Eden. Changing our minds opens up the possibility of changing our realities. Naive believers of 'fairy tales' and the optimists are the ones who can renew and improve our realities.
Let's use the most powerful force in the universe to unite the world!
The Revolution is Love! Love is the answer.
Opponents of this forum have long controlled the up and down votes, and sadly they also control a lot more than that. They create and userp usernames, they build up "characters" that we may come to trust, they use intimidation and sophisticated psych-op techiques - some of them have a mastery of logic, and use every conceivable logical falacy to confuse, they shift in and out of various personas.
Be aware that little here is as it seems.
So simply speak your truth, and realize nothing may be what it appears to be.
Thanks. That's good advice. I googled alterorabolish1 yesterday and saw many of my posts, but there were some posts listed where I hadn't even participated.
Run it by the site - I think it a dandy idea to have both the positive and negative votes on a comment shown. And the positive votes could still place it on the best comment board. The number of negative votes showing on a best comment might make a reader wonder why all of the negative votes on the comment or after having read the comment wonder about all of the positive votes the comment got.
Exactly...err how do i run it by the site, use the email address listed at the bottom of the page?
It might be very revealing in other ways also.
Send it in to the e-mail contact address - but perhaps also send a PM to jart. There are more e-mail addresses on the about page. Copy the permalinks from our short exchange on the idea as a help in presenting the idea - if you want.
Thanks, I have to leave now but will try later. Please feel free to run it by the site yourself if you want, it might even have more effect coming from you.
Done deal - sent in your idea for consideration.
Thx. Perhaps I will and just copy the link to the post. Like I said - I like your idea. positive and negative votes - yep why the hell not?
There may be some reason for not doing it, but I can't think of any. Thanks for sending the idea.
Why the hell not?
While your at it why not suggest the votes be attached to the comment and not the poster? Makes more sense and from what I've seen that's the way most comment sections are on the net.
But you're probably wasting your time unfortunately. I sent them a similar suggestion over a year ago. Got no reply back.
No reply. Bummer.
Do you mean no reply to me was a bummer? Or that you got no reply?
Probably both, eh?
No reply to you was a bummer. That's a bad reflection of the site itself. I had to log off and asked DKA to send in the idea, he said that he did.
Well, hopefully he has some luck.
As much as apolitical-lity and "non-partisanship" is decried and feigned ad nauseam here, the "T" and "S" Best/Worst status is all politics (and not the left/right, right/wrong kind). So, you have to actually read to find interesting, poignant or informative posts. Sorry.
Thanks, I have a better understanding now.
Who is against love?
Those posters who employ puppets and bots.
Without assuring that those things are impossible, it's pointless to change the current system. Any changes would make it even easier to manipulate.
Just vote. It's your right. Exercise it.
Maybe this has been discussed before and it was decided it's best to leave it as originally designed. It could still be manipulated, I also understand that.
The total number of Twinkles, AND the total number of Stinkles would be very interesting to me. Ideally it would reveal our interest on an issue, and how many feel strongly enough to either like or dislike the post.
I thought at one time it would be good to see how many twinkles and stinkles each person has dished out in total.
I've thought of that. Such a statistic would show who the haters are and who enjoys reading a good thought.
That would be interesting. I'm now curious how many of each I've done. It would change the forum though because it would change perceptions of individual posters. I'm not sure I want that.
Which is why I thought (but didn't mention) that if this happened, it should start the total from when it's implemented rather than from the beginning.
Also it would change how we behave in the future as people's perceptions of us would change, along with our perceptions of others.
Change for the better? Debatable.
I agree that it may or may not be a change for the better. Good point about it starting at implementation instead of from the beginning.
Why? So that people who were mean, nasty, little people in the past wouldn't be revealed for their behavior? People who have nothing to hide are the kind of people you want to work with. Right?
It's very true that i want to work with good, passionate people with nothing to hide. My goal is to become the 99%, and that will sometimes involve helping mean, nasty, little people transform their behaviors. Then their past matters no longer. Love is the answer.
People who want to transform their behaviors will. Those whose behavior is different depending on whether or not it can be seen by others, are not transformed individuals. And love can't change someone who doesn't want to change, no matter how much you love them.
While Love doesn't always change someone who doesn't want to change, it happens every day. Think Liam Neeson in Les Mes after the couple that took him in and fed him. He left during the night, stealing their silver and was caught. Brought back to the couple, the man Loved him and told the police that he had given the silver to him. He didn't want to change, but Love was powerful enough to change him.
Le Mes is based on a novel. It's a story. Not an biography.
I thought it was the best example of the power of Love.
I didn't say it wasn't a great example of the power of Love. I just said it isn't a real example.
Thrashy, what do you know about Love ?
This comment makes no sense....
Define Love .. in your own words.
"Define Love .. in your own words."
Can't reply. No more room.
What I know about Love doesn't matter one iota in the grand scheme of things.
What's a "Thrashy"?
Helen Keller? Corrie Ten Boom? Mother Teresa?
Yes. All of them examples of loving human beings. That's not my point. I agree that people demonstrate love every day all over the world.
My point is about how we determine that "love" or compassion has truly changed another person. The reason that the story you first posted is so powerful, is because we, the audience, are SHOWN the back-story. "Liam Neeson" is shown to have been a thief and a liar of the worst sort...the kind that would take advantage of even those who opened up their home to him. When even THAT doesn't turn them against him, he actually CHANGES, INSIDE, into a different kind of person.
The reason this example is so powerful is because of the degree of forgiveness the couple demonstrated towards someone who tried to hurt them. That expression of pure, unconditional love, is what moves us, and moves the man to change.
That said, if that kind of true change comes when people KNOW the worst about you and your past and love you and treat you with respect despite it, then what is your fear here?
I really enjoy your writing skills.
I am passionate about feeling the pure unconditional love that moves us, and moves the man to change. I want to feel it over and over again. I want to personally be a part of it and share the feeling together with others. I guess my fear here are the distractions in my life that hinder my passion.
You seem to be suggesting that it's better to "hide" the kind of person you really are so that people get a positive perception of us (even if we're nasty little people behind the scenes) than being honest and open and obvious about who we are.
Didn't you just say the other day that our twinkle/stinkle scores indicated how much integrity we really have? Seems like you know that mean, nasty little people can affect those scores and change how we are perceived (make us look bad even if we aren't) and you don't want to change that.
see comment above, it might be a good response to your comment too.
"People won't pull dick moves for days and weeks on end."
Really? Isn't this a site BUILT ON the premise that there are people controlling things in our country that do exactly that?
You only like them now because you think your positive score is proof that you have integrity. Yet you're willing to admit that it's only a "perception" created by others. I told you before that someone could take that positive score away from you without changing your actual integrity at all.
If you lose points today, it wasn't me, though it's tempting.
And people who pull dick moves don't last long, then they start a new account, but they get busted again and again.
I love watching the team of people with integrity screw the trolls and verbally abuse them. They deserve it.
My perception serves me well. I don't think everyone with -10 has low integrity, but I watch and learn. Silly to jump to conclusions.
If I lose points today, even from you, all it proves is that you disagree with me. Or hate me. It says nothing about my integrity.
Here's the thing...if someone pulls a "dick move" and gets busted for it, their dick moves remain behind even if they get booted. Those negative points don't vanish with them.
And people with real integrity don't screw other people or verbally abuse them, no matter how much they deserve it. Integrity comes from within, and doesn't change just because circumstances aren't the ones you want.
Of course, my "integrity" meter has gone from close to -80 to just -10 in a matter of days....I must be exhibiting so much more integrity these days.
It's a long-term thing. Sometimes I want to beat the living shit out of people here for the things they say and do (I'm not referring to you). Maybe that's a hit to my real integrity, whatever.
BTW, I haven't decided on my perception of you yet. It's a thing in development. You need to take Organizational Behavior a few times to be aware of the perceptual errors you might be making. If our education system should focus on anything, it's concepts in OB.
You need to take Human Behavior a few times to become aware of the perceptual errors you might be making.
And if there's anything our education system needs to focus on, it's critical thinking skills.
Hahaha. I like you. Highly intelligent obviously.
It would absolutely be a change for the better. For example, last year I had one single poster spend hours of his spare time going thru old threads downvoting every comment of mine he could find, regardless of whether the comments were good or not. Simply because we had a disagreement the Friday night before. It was a personal attack. I think this idea would make someone think twice about doing something like that in the future. As it stands now the 'twinkle-stinkle' are used largely to attack someone they don't like and have nothing to do with the quality of the comment. In other words, for the exact opposite purpose for which they were originally meant.
As it stands, they're useless.
There is probably a better option for detecting/flagging people who fuck around like that.
Maybe an hourly or daily count of twinkle/stinkles.
I personally like them now, even though they have weaknesses. For example, over the long term, you can see who has integrity or not. Maybe you should have 5 or 6 thousand or more points there but it's obvious you have integrity. People won't pull dick moves for days and weeks on end.
Thanks for that. There's probably a middle road approach that would work. Unfortunately, I've seen a number of good ideas proposed that the admins essentially ignore. Apparently they like things the way they are. Personally, if they insist on a points system, I've always thought the points should be attached to the comment, not the poster.
I like it even if it's not great because of the integrity and also because scoring points like a video game is motivating.
At least you're willing to admit that "scoring points like a video game" is what motivates you.
Under Integrity-Wikipedia-
Subjective interpretations
"One can also speak of "integrity" outside of its prescriptive meaning, in reference to a person or group of people of which the speaker subjectively approves or disapproves. Thus a favored person can be described as "having integrity", while an enemy can be regarded as "completely lacking in integrity". Such labeling, in the absence of measures of independent testing, renders the accusation itself baseless and (ironically) others may call the integrity of the assertion into question."
You're awfully defensive ATM!
A cloud or a ship's hull can be described as having integrity, which can be compromised, bringing the thing down. That's what can happen here. If you have -200 and falling fast, you're pretty much worthless as far as your ability to persuade goes.
Your "perception" that I am "awfully defensive ATM", is an incorrect perception. Maybe you need to take OB again.
I don't come here to prove I have the ability to persuade. I come here to give another point of view and present facts and logical arguments that others can then use or discard as they see fit.
Propaganda is used to persuade. If persuasion is what you value, then someone well versed in employing it must be highly worthwhile to you.
"Scoring points like a video game." heheheh
Just wait until you get on someone's bad side. Rarely do I even bother voting.
By the way, here's a good example. I haven't been posting much lately (been distracted by other things) and I think I've been polite these last couple weeks, but, a few weeks ago I was up around 4500 points or so. Go figure.
Ya, I haven't been screwed yet so I guess I'm lucky. And I do get really honest with assholes at times. Knock on wood!
Well, if you ever do get attacked, point-wise, don't let it get you down. It's irrelevant. It's what you do here, or on the ground, that's important.
I hear that. The only thing that might drive me away in the future is if no one takes interest in the 99% Conglomerate. It's what I'm mainly here for, other than the interesting news and other goodies posted. Also, starting to get to know people in this community is rewarding.
There are some good people here worth knowing. And a lot of good things posted/linked. So I suggest hanging around awhile. Who knows, your 99 Conglomerate may eventually take hold. You put a lot of work into it.
It's actually taken on some new direction/dimensions since I've been watching this forum. Someone said it's the best website on the Internet. I might just agree.
Excellent. I'm sincerely glad to hear that.
Maybe those perceptions need to change to more accurately reflect not just what people say, but how they act as well. Why would you not want that?
It might ruin the site. I'm not sure.
It would only ruin the site if it revealed that the vast majority of posters were haters or against rational, fact based thoughts. Wouldn't it be in the best interests of everyone-especially the movement itself-to know what kind of people you're dealing with?
Now, that idea I like.
Hey, not fair! How did you get (edited, had to give one too) 5 twinkles by saying you like my idea?!
Is it the bold that?
Hehe, well played!
Heheh, yeah, bold always gets 'em. I see you have a sense of humor. That's good.
Now maybe you're starting to see to utter uselessness of the points system. Many times you'll see something like "Yeah" make it into 'best comments.' I don't understand. And what's going on now is fraudulent use of the system as the comments in 'best comments' have no right to be there. Unfortunately, someone is using a bot, I assume, when they expressly said they wouldn't.
I still find a use for the points though. Like Vapospray (or however you spell it)... it seems to have received a ton of points in the last few hours, but on this thread I'm pretty sure it's a net loss or close to even. Suspicious, I'll have to keep an eye on it, or not waste my time... I'm curious to know which set of its posts actually turned people on.
Yeah, Vaporspray has a couple people (like GF) that will automatically downvote all her comments, even though she's said a few things that make sense.
If you're here long enough, eventually you'll find out those points are pretty much meaningless since they're not being used as they were originally intended.
That would be very funny to see.
Lets put total hours spent hear as well, just trolling and inkling.
I totally agree!!!
also I like your suggestion.
partisan hacks downvote BW because BW is not a partisan hack.
they follow her posts too.
I'm surprised I have a top comment today. More recently when I get to the top comments, it instantly gets downvoted.
It is what it is, I guess. I usually get downvoted because I criticize the president.
I think listing both totals might help us understand when the partisans, (or some other group), attack. While manipulations could still occur, there may be groups that do not want certain topics listed on the Best Comments Today. All that would be necessary would be to make sure no one in the thread has more than 2 or 3 points.
This reason alone makes me hope for the change, it should be simple to do.
i do like the suggestion