Forum Post: Troll Tactic For Today - Blame Obama
Posted 12 years ago on March 18, 2012, 3:23 p.m. EST by GypsyKing
(8708)
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These guys are so transparent with the "on message" themes given to them by their handlers. They move from one to another all at the same time like a bunch of sheep being driven by a dog. The minute you expose them, they get another user name and start all over again hammering away on the same bullshit divide and conquer theme, in one form or another. They've got a dozen or so of these themes and they just rotate from one to another in mindless unison.
"The minute you expose them, they get another user name and start all over again hammering away on the same bullshit divide and conquer theme, in one form or another."
You hit the nail on the head with this statement GypsyKing. They seem quite clever and more of the baiting type. This is a big clue that they are always new and have few posts next to their name. They can catch us by surprise by clever baiting tactics which actually is one their clever tricks. This I think is likely just a few real people taking on many names and switching names as their big "double-secret" strategy they thought we could never figure out. Their cleverness is riddled with holes and be easily once we realize how it's happening. The overall purpose they seek is confusion and sucking us into wasted diatribes. Dividing our goals and lowering us into an exchange of insults and belittlement. Eventually, unchecked, we would all look like a bunch of clowns with no relevancy expect to entertain. They would cheer their victory over rational discourse.
Problem is, this only makes us stronger and more convicted so in a dualistic turn they embolden us. I am fighter for every that is right, and one of those is respect for others and disdain for who violate these rights in others.
But, as usual, we can out them. If they have less than a hundred posts, and in the current, they are trolls. So, open your eyes, and soon as they go onto their divide and conquer with insult strategy it will become strongly evident they are trolling.
I suggest throwing the troll label at them with the next post and all of the veterans here will know the signal, we know each other, and we have each others back. Unfortunately, we have to push back sometimes to just acknowledge what we're seeing here sometimes. I's been an on-going problem. But the cause is way bigger than them which obviously they are deluded from. We have our eye on the prize. Never stopped.
Good Luck!
The Puzzler
Thanks, some of us have put some effort into getting this under control again and I think the results will be showing:)
The Good Ideas will eventually become realized, these things have always been possible, it's a matter of how long. How long until Justice and Truth will rule over this world instead where love is the guiding principle. We've had the idea for thousands expressed through many writings including the big Rs. We just have get this idea into reality. Reality has, always and forever, started with an Idea. We just wish we knew all them, or everything, and maybe we do, but we don't, not now.
Good Ideas Never Die
Amen.
Gypsy king - Obama is beating the corporate drum as loudly as any Republican (do you read the bills put forth?) He talks one way and does another. For instance in the jobs bill he is requiring people to do volunteer work for companies in order to collect unemployment...huh? Does that seem right especially when unemployment is insurance paid for by the tax payers?
Obama also continually voted in favor of unconstitutional bullshit like the patriot act that to this day has lead to the NSA collecting over 1.7 billion texts and emails every day in complete violation of the 4th amendment.
http://www.aclu.org/files/pages/fisainfographic3.pdf
"I'm not disgusted at President Obama personally. It's President Obama's policies on civil liberties and national security issues I'm disgusted by." - ACLU Executive Director Anthony Romero
http://www.politico.com/blogs/joshgerstein/0610/ACLU_chief_disgusted_with_Obama.html
If the ACLU is filing lawsuits against you for war crimes... you might be a bad president.
Obama has stayed neutral as far as this movement is concerned, and has said, "I sypathize with their frustration." Romney and Santorum have both called this movement "terrorists." If the implications of THAT aren't enough to tell us who we need to back in the upcoming pre-selected election, than we have rocks in our heads.
He sympathized as he did nothing about the police brutality and swat teams continual attack on people using their first amendment right.
He sympathized as he continually supported bailouts for the fraudulent banks stealing people's homes instead of his administration taking legal action to arrest these frauds and produce legislation to actually stop the problem. Perhaps reversing the Financial Modernization Act of 1999 which has created a lot of these financial problems. At least TRY and come up with a real solution.
I don't need someone to fucking sympathize with me. I need a president to take action on that sympathy instead of bombing foreign countries and continuing the Bush war legacy..
OBAMA IS NOT INFALLIBLE
Did I say Obama is infallible? You simply keep repeating yourself without putting together any viable plan of ACTION to make the changes we seek. Simply saying over and over again that Obama has backed some pretty nasty legislation does not take into account who wrote that legislation, who paid them to write it, and most importantly what we shoud actually DO about it.
I think I said once before, since this is all you seem capable of doing that I won't respond to anymore of your comments. This time I mean it.
Don't support pro-war candidates. That is my plan of action. I've stated this to you many times. Obama and OWS have 2 completely different goals.
I've also told you that people need to focus locally and get the liars and frauds out of congress. Considering how much power congress has that's a great place to have good candidates. And it's easier to focus on your district than it is to organize the entire USA to vote for a president. Organize locally and rally people to support congressmen that will uphold the law and impeach war criminals like Bush and Obama when they violate laws.
Your plan of action is Obama 2012 and then democratic nominee 2016. This will only get us continual wars and horrible foreign policy and the theft of our rights like we have seen since 2000.
If every democrat supported anti-war candidates.... maybe just fucking maybe... the wars would end.
I've told you this several times and you still come at me on different posts claiming some nonsense about myself not having a plan whenever I disapprove of Obama.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MuNvxH5kSKU
Ahh so then - you believe everything the news tells you and don't bother to dig any deeper - like reading the actual bills? You're talking to a person who voted for Obama by the way - but someone doesn't get a free ride on mere promises - they need follow through and a give me a whole hell of a lot more than talk. I want action..and I don't want to read bills that grant Wall Street gifts put forth by the administration I elected to do the opposite.
Agreed. I seem to have a very hard time getting people to see the difference between recognizing the problem, and putting together a workable solution.
The fact is, we will either get Obama or a Republican in the next election. There are no other choices. The major Republican candidates have called this movement "terrorist." The implications of that should be pretty sobering. So, we avoid that pitfall by creating a Democratic landslide, if possible, and then we will have a political climate in which we can make change, either through pressure, or through forming a third party.
I don't see any other realistic way forward given where we actually are now. Just wishing things were different, without having an actual plan of action is not going to solve the problem.
the enemy who hides the true intentions or the one who states them loud - not sure which is worse?
So the candidate's support of this movement is what we should base our support on? Paul said he supports this movement, while Obama has stayed neutral. Does that mean we should support Paul?
Ron Paul has been completely exposed as a fraud, and essentially a closet Nazi. That's why. Please see my post "A bitter-Sweet Victory."
I did not say Paul was a good person, or worthy of our vote. I am pointing out how silly it is for us to support a candidate based on their support of this movement. See how I phrased that? "So the candidate's support of this movement is what we should base our support on?"
Actually, I think Obama proposed merely removing the restriction "against" doing volunteer work while collecting unemployment (but there's no affirmative requirement to do volunteer work that I'm aware of, although some republicans endorse this requirement). This flexibility is helpful to the unemployed, because it's much better to remain active in your profession (even if you're not getting paid for it), as opposed to a long period of total inactivity (leaving a giant gap in your resume). An unemployed carpenter or healthcare worker or lawyer or social worker or computer programmer, could easily find volunteer work that would be both fulfilling, and provide valuable experience (and really, someone can easily volunteer on a part time basis, while still having plenty of time to search for work, and maybe even taking some classes to improve their skills).
I think the blueprint for this idea came from a pilot program Georgia had in place (that was successful, and the unemployed liked it). Obviously, republicans now want to take this idea to a new level, and impose it as a requirement (but I'm pretty sure the President opposes this)??
I think it would be great for people who want to change careers. They could voulenteer in an area that they think they might like or where jobs are.
It would at least give them the basic experience to start in the field and eventually move up.
I often wondered why they don't do that with prisoners - those who are in for 10, 15, 20 years who are young when they went in should be taught some kind of skill so that when they return to society they will be able to get a decent job.
The question you should be asking, is who lobbied for that?
You can safely bet, somebody did.
yes and who went right along with it?!!!!!! Obama - who's side is he really on ? I'll admit when I hear what the right wants i shiver with fear but what kind of little bitch just goes on talking to the public like he's hard at work fighting it meanwhile writing the shit into law for them?
They all do, silly. They have for many years.
You need to find out who did the lobbying.
I know in my state it's ALEC, writing new law for the (R)epelican'ts.
Find out who lobbied.
Again - if I'm president lobby me all you want - I'll take the money and donate it to charity - but I'm not going to make laws for you (read the jobs bill) corporate gifting abounds - like they ever pay it forward they take the money and run overseas with it. $10,000 tax credit to hire someone who collected unemployment hmmm - I'll hire you temporarily or part time collect my check - then lay you off - might even re-hire you and get paid again (Is there anyone even checking on this stuff?) Meanwhile poor joe-schmoe laid off worker gets to volunteer their time to a corporation in order to collect the funds their tax dollars actually paid for? - makes sense huh (well if you're a corporation - they don't mind free labor) and 10,000 to boot when they hire you before they lay you off again so you can voluntarily work for them in order to maybe get re-hired? It's the circle of life make that money oh I'm sorry make that the circle of government and corporations jerking off in your face.
You are right of course, but I hope you can visualize how much WORSE it could be under a 1% member of the corporate oligarchy like Romney of Santorum.
"Fascism should really be called Corporatism, because it is the blending of the corporation with the government." - Mousallini
Get out a history book, re-read the events of just 65 years ago, and you will get some conception of how much worse it can get. We are three years into the Obama administration and I have yet to see one tank in the streets, or one door bashed in because someone was envolved in Occupy.
Hitler put his political enemies in concentration camps, so when Romney and Santorum call us terrorists, and you look at what being defined as a "terrorist" now means in America, you better damned well prick up your ears and listen!
So don't look it up.
If you run? let me know, I'll vote for you, or at least support you.
Until then, I have to deal with what we have. Perhaps if you were more supportive of the drive to get the money out, it would be changing by now, but it isn't.
If you would look more closely you would find that it's a drive towards libe(R)tarianism that is killing us, and this one fits "right" in.
Lobby's are one way they've been pushing their agenda.
Who lobbied for this?
It's worse then the temp. to hire full time scam. The company pays nothing out of pocket for labor ( free Labor ) they don't need to hire you and if there is a time on the job requirement for mandatory full time hire - no problem they let you go before that time is reached. All this "FREE" labor - Hold it on the "PUBLIC DIME " there is no free lunch. Meantime these workers ( unemployed workers ) are taken away from a full time job search. What a fan-fuckin-tastic idea.
And the company is paid to do this?
Fuckin-a where do I go to begin using volunteer labor?
Obama who renewed the Patriot Act; who signed the NDAA; and soon the HR 347; now an executive order for complete military takeover; and led the attacks on multiple non threatening nations; although he is commander in chief; has nothing to do with any of these things ? Fortunately I'm clear that many Obama supporters; have a mental affliction wherein they cannot acknowledge reality; before their very eyes. One clinical psychologist defined it as dissociation; a condition that is not aided by giving these people even more, evidence, data, and facts; indeed more evidence makes their condition worse because their coping mechanism is to separate from reality; which is hardly a indication of mental health.
Coup2012, what a revealing username, got here just today, interestingly, to go on beating the same drum with another username after you already got whipped - alias Thrasymaque, etc., etc.?
Planning a right-wing coup de' ta? If you think we already can't remember who got us in this mess and had more contempt for law and the Constitution than any president in history, and I'm talking GWB here of course, than you think Americans are pretty damned stupid. If fact I think guy's like you are counting on it.
Yes, I lost my password and couldn't use Rosewood...but yes this username is very timely; and appropriate. So how did you know...do you have my ip adress or area ? Seems you are quite the operator lol Actually I remembe standing on frozen corners, trying to get GWB impeached; and I couldn't get one democrat to help with the effort; as a matter of fact; they told me not to bother; because soon he would be out of office.
As you can see, nothing about all that unconstitutional legislation being signed in by Obama alters your position.
Plan please. Give us a strategy to get from where we are to where we want to be, and then maybe their will be something to discuss.
Okay, your responses are bazarre; and it's either intentional or not. In either case, you're not able to respond normally to this discussion; so it would be foolish of me to continue to engage you. You're not even in sync with what I wrote several times..so let's not continue. I'm content believing you to be a paid op, because how did you know who I was ? Bye
You both accusing each other of being paid ops... lulz!!!!
Yeah, but I'm the one who's right.
hahahaha I'm sure you're both wrong. You've told me I'm a paid op several times. Believe me... if I got paid to speak my opinions online, I'd be bragging about it all day long.
Well, I don't think you are anymore anyway. There are so many who push certain points of view in sycronicity that I often assume those who are doing so at a given time are part of slytherin. In you're case I made a mistake. Sorry.
Did you happen to get to see that bumper sticker, or the new fake birth certificate? I did not vote for Obama but really???
Well, you heard it folks, the news from Hicksville!
Honest people make honest mistakes....it's all about what they do when they learn a mistake has been made....just sayin"
Yes, I agree. There are plenty of very valid reasons to be disillusioned with Obama, and voicing that is fine, but in a way, if it discourages people from voting it could be catistrophic for this movement. That is why I oppose that point of view, and frankly, I find it abhorent to defend Obama at this point; and in fact I'm not defending him, but rather the necessity of preventing yet another disasterous Republican Presidency. I honestly don't think America would survive that.
The Obama bashing, no matter how justified just feeds into the hands of our opponents.
Logic, Captain, Logic - You must know that lemmings cannot understand logic
Sigh . . . I've repeated myself about as much here as I'm willing to.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/125123428
but thanks for the shout out for Hicksville Long Island NY I guess....
http://www.democraticunderground.com/101476610
Huh? What do you mean?
Yeah, I don't get that one either. Hicksville ain't exactly the Hamptons but it's not full of "hicks," if that's what he meant. It is, however, full of Long Islanders. ;-)
PS - My hometown is Fair Harbor, Fire Island, and my nephew is graduating from Bay Shore HS this spring. All in neighborly fun.
By the way I'm disabled and my family and I do not get any help, Hamptons here I come!
Oh yeah, you're a natural for the beach! No help for the disabled but you probably get free beluga caviar while you're there. You know how those effete Maserati-driving liberals are with their socialist programs. ;-)
Yep first I head off to Uncle Giuseppe's of course, they have a great selection of Seafood pre oiled from the Gulf!!! Afterwords I like to do some wine tasting before heading back to Hicksville and listen to the LIRR roar by ;)
Kind of like real train-spotting only much louder.
I knew what he/she meant but of course running away from your mistakes is the norm these days. I stated that I did not vote for Obama because I was sticking up for him and did not want to be accused of being an Obama cultist. And for the record I never voted for Bush either. Just more Partisan BS while corruption in boardrooms and union halls run wild.
I knew exactly what you meant in your first comment. I don't know why Gypsy reacted the way he did. I think you were making a valid and supportive comment and I agree about the birthers. I did vote for Obama and I won't be ashamed to vote for him again and I'm under no illusion that he's any sort of messiah. I've been jaded about his administration since before he was elected but I still voted for him. I would very much like to see a third party emerge and a congress forced to rule by coalition but we're nowhere near there and I'd rather have the lesser of the two evils I'm presented with every four years. How much "lesser" is arguable but at least lesser, that much I know. ;-)
By the way thanks for your reply.
It stems from calling out corruption....union and non union. Living on Long Island I'm sure you understand my point on corruption.
I voted for Nader since I have lost all faith in this two party system to do the right thing for ALL the people not a select few.
I understand we have to start somewhere and I like Nader in general but he was never a viable candidate, imho. Perot was as close as we've seen in a while but he was nuts. And really, it's not going to start with a third party presidency, it's going to start with a regional third party emerging in congress.
Ironically, the tea party may wind up being a big help in the final analysis. The GOP is being pulled apart right now. If the extremist tea party faction succeeds in taking over the party completely, it will be even more extreme than it is now. A large contingent of fiscal conservatives may be forced to abandon ship but won't want to go to the Democratic party. The third party that emerges next could be the moderate and fiscal conservative outcasts from the GOP, which would ultimately grow larger than the GOP, leaving the extremists as back-benchers in just a few election cycles. With the conservative coalition divided, Dems would have a progressive mandate and no excuses. This election is going to be very interesting.
you really stirred 'em up GypsyKing! good thing i'm wearing my waders, the shit is really deep on this post.
Once more to the top, because this is THE MESSAGE for today!
lauryn hill i get out http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DE1IdhzkxvQ&feature=player_embedded
great vilification
i know. the song actually is not against politics but about insightful spiritual fight with invisible orb. this is not my video. shalom to the president!
Good song, and I liked the video. It's the whole system we need to change. Obama isn't the system, he's just the current figurehead. He really has very little power.
Yep.
That is pretty funny, GypsyKing. They are silly, aren't they?
Well, unfortunately I think we have two kinds of people making these anti-Obama posts - the ones genuinely, and rightly in my opinion, who don't like his domestic surveilance crap, or his foreign policy, and find them scary. I do too, but I don't find him a quarter as scary as GWB was.
The others are probably paid trolls who are working for the Republicans, or directly for their masters, and you can see that by the way they are always pushing the same message at the same time. That was a tactic perfected by Karl Rove. When evertbody seems to be saying the same thing, people will usually believe it, because most people just aren't cynical enough to understand this kind of mass manipulation of opinion.
I had the experience of trying to mobilize people to push for GWB impeachment; and it was democrats who always said don't waste your time; he'll be out soon. Now when I criticize Obama for renewing the Patriot Act, signing the NDAA, HR 347 and now peace time martial law executive orders, the attacking of Libya, resulting in the destruction of that society; with black Libyans and foreign workers now being exterminated; I'm called a Bush lover. Seems unfair. I guess I have different values; at the point where a president gives the military the power to pick people up and disappear them, with no due process, perhaps torture them; suspends the constitution; makes protest a federal offense;puts us under military dictatorship and martial law; well that's just about my worse nightmare. I'm unconcerned as to what political label or party they belong to...it's their deeds that define them...guess that's seen as crazy talk to some. People say so...repubs would be worse, or the president isn't responsible...oh really...when did that happen. I don't understand continued loyalty to this president; this congress; or these two parties.
I don't think what you're saying is crazy at all. I'm just trying to help hammer out an agenda that will work in the real world, so that we can get where we want to be. Please see my forum post, "Forum Recommendations for change." It is a compilation of the actual actions people can take to reach our goals, and this it seems to me is what we on this forum have to contribute
The problems are legion, the methods to solve them complicated.
Yes. Agreed. I actually don't mind the people who are true dissenters. I don't mind arguing with them at all. The others are, well, pretty silly and obvious.
You said it. I don't mind debating those who are serious, in fact I share many of their concerns. The trolls are just pathetic, really, you're right.
I don't question your credentials as a true OWSer -- I believe you want a society designed to respond to human needs, not untrammeled corporate greed.
However, you are here 24/7. It seems likely someone is paying you, perhaps the DNC.
Your attacks on people who disagree with you on Obama are over the top. They are not trolls. I am fast losing respect for you.
[Removed]
Can you put forward a plan by which this movement can succeed if the Republicans regain the only branch of power they don't now control, or how we could possibly move even an inch forward in that event? You see I actually want this movement to succeed, and no I'm not here 24/7 and nobodies paying me a goddamned dime, and I'm totally disillusioned with Obama. I am talking TACTICS, and I have asked that question to many people here, and have yet to recieve an answer from even one of them.
And finally, I don't give a damn if you lose respect for me.
If McCain had won (or been installed) he wouldn't have gotten away with half of what Obama has. The anti-war movement would be incredibly strong. Unconstitutional laws and executive orders wouldn't even have been attempted. Obama has gutted and filleted the left.
I believe NDAA was a military coup. We don't have a functioning democracy, we have a psyopped version -- with fake candidates, fake differences, fake voting machines (Stalin: it's not who wins that counts, it's who counts the vote).
They count on us to play along with the charade. Wise up.
Please offer a workable plan for this movement for the next year so that people can know what they need to do to support it. That is why we are here. Repeating the state of things is not offering a plan.
You offer a plan. Let me guess... is it Obama 2012? After that will it be democratic nominee 2016? Is your plan just the 2 party system that we already have? Where the media chooses the top nominees for people to vote for.
Obama 2012, 99%ers take over Congress in 2014, 99%er/Rocky/Green Party/someone decent for President in 2016.
You got it, my friend! It's the only method that will WORK!
There was plenty of time to boost support for Rocky or the green party from the start of OWS. Just look at Kony 2012 and how fast that picked up.
Obama 2012 will not lead to a Rocky/Green party in 2016. Support for the Rocky/Green party is how you lead to a Rocky/Green Party.
I partly agree. I don't really want to keep Obama in office, but the grim reality is that there is not enough time for a successful Rocky campaign. I'd rather see the Rocky team save their money and start planning for 2016.
Remember that for someone like Rocky to win he has to get enough people to break ranks from the 2-party brainwashing, get enough outreach so that everyone in America knows he exists, AND somehow beats virtually infinite money from Super PAC bullshit. That is a very tough challenge and one that I feel should not be hastily accepted.
If you look at the senators, over 90 who signed the NDAA, that can place Americans, anyone, under indefinite military detainment; upon a "suspicion" of terrorism, without due process; no judge, jury or charge or trial; you'll see that these senators were from both parties. The NDAA is high treason; so logically if both parties are attacking the American people; as well as the congress and president; All engaged in high treason; whom in their right mind, who understands that this is a coup; would still place faith in one party over another. The saying..the definition of insanity; is doing the same thing again and again; and expecting a different outcome or result.
The coup d'etat that is ocurring as we speak is being supported by BOTH PARTIES; congress, and the president. Now clearly this is a reality that you cannot grasp; nor can you grasp that there is a president who is engaged in treason as is the congress. So our first concern; is how to confront reality and truth. The situation is beyond parties; it's like being underwater pulled down by the titanic, and 20 feet under you're looking for a life boat....duh..it's too late for that.
You advocate no plan, no way forward, but simply try to instill impotent fear. We all know these things, the question is how do we change it?
So when I mentioned the states rallying to assert their constituitonal rights, to contain or try to contain the fed; or using the marshall's; asking the military to keep it's oath to the constitution; using the impeachment process...that isn't a plan...it's instilling fear ?
Are you okay...sane...functioning...of right mind ?
You are assuming a lot here, and the first thing you are assuming, incorrectly I think, is that the States will rally to assert their Constitutional rights. By States, do you mean State Government, or the people of the States?
State governments aren't likely to do it, because most of them are as deep in the ill-gotten gains as the Feds. Furthermore, every State would have a different conception of what needs to be done, inducing a laughable fiasco at best and a downright government meltdown at worst. If you are talking about the people of the states, well that would be great, but I don't see even a fraction of that level of political activism thus far, for that we can still hope, but I don't think we can count upon it. You go on to say "using federal marshalls," but there is a simple problem there - federal marshals are exactly that, federal. It is unlikely that if you or I, or even 10,000 people together, asked them to arrest their own superiors that they would do so. I can't off hand think of any historical precident for that, and as far as the military is concerned, they aren't likely to get involved one way or another unless it comes to truely massive demonstrations, and there is no telling how they would react under such circumstances. And finally, the impeachment process. That takes place in Congress, and If you think I'd back a Republican Congress, who wrote those damn bills, to impeach a Democratic president it's you that aren't in your right mind.
Any other rediculous, impractical, or counter-productive ideas? I'm all ears.
You know, I'm not the enemy ....so why all the attitude ? Listen, I'm done with this...the people get the government they deserve. How's that ? Live with it...I hope I can expatriate. Is that a better answer lol
"Are you okay . . . sane . . . functioning . . . in your right mind?"
Just thought I'd remind you of what you just said 5 minutes ago, in case you've already forgotton.
There are strategies that could be advanced using the states to assert the power granted to them by the constitution; and the full mobilization of law marshalls; to contain the fed, but truthfully this requires an aware; intelligent and courageous population willing to fight on all fronts...and truthfully the American public are just about the dumbest people, who will sell out and snitch on their mom's if they were paid...so it's not looking good.
Obama needs to be impeached along with every senator that signed the NDAA, but getting that requires a populace with the temperment and scrappiness of a honey badger. We need the military to be loyal to their constitutional oath; and stand by the people and the constitution. Some of the military will be loyal to their oath; others will obey WHATEVER order is given them, including to shoot their fellow Americans; so it's going to be a horror.
Aren't you Mr. doom and gloom today.
Did you have a nice St. Paddy's day? I've often seen green the next day myself, back in my drinkin' days.
However, that being said, what you are calling for is armed revolution.
What you are calling for is civil war.
That is not the aim of this movement.
What part of peaceful revolution are you misunderstanding?
Okay so you don't want to use the legal constitutional process; given to us specificlly for the situation we find ourselves in today...Well that makes sense with a quart of booze in your veins. Don't use your constitution; don't punish high treason; let tyrants and political criminals roam free lol..and expect to survive ? You won't. Armed revolution isn't needed if we were to use the processes given to us within the constitution, which by the way does contain armed revolution.
Non-compliance; non-violent civil disobedience; economic boycotts; impeachment... demanded by all sectors of society would contain this coup; but the real problem is that the 99% will obey orders. Police will obey orders; much of the military; TSA, will obey; agents and ops will obey...that's the real problem. Violence wouldn't be needed if people would just stop following orders, and authority.
Yes I support non-violence; but some sectors of society won't...which is realistic to acknowledge. I would never consider bringing violence into Occupy..but this movement is not the whole of the society..and I was referring to society..sorry I didn't emphasize that.
There is a third alternativec we vote out all the republicans and sold out demovrats (if there is a better alternative) producing a government that won't shoot us down in the street. Then we pressure them through the political process, and if we don't get our grievances addressed, we form a third party. We keep up the protests on the streets, sign petitions and do everything else we can think of to add further pressure, and we eductate, educate, educate.
The is the path forward for bloodless revolution. It won't be easy and it probably won't be quick. Romney and Santorum have both declaired this movement terrorist, while Obama has stayed essentially nutral. The implications of this should be lost on no one. If you think it can't get a lot worse than it is under Obama you haven't learned much from the history of the 20th century..
Sounds awesome except that the voting system is totally compromised..so we have to get the diebold's out; and get transparency in. Obama's executive order for peacertime martial law takeover,adds a new dimension. I know it can get a lot worse.
Agreed completely about the integrity of the election. Odin advised that Occupy people volunteer as poll workers. That would be one of a number of things we could do to assure the election is sound. Getting rid of the Diebold machines is another, and demanding international observers would be a third.
Look at this .How Caucuses Are Stolen From Ron Paul Voters "By The Republican Party" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r_0xQZevaw8
The Constitution was duly destroyed back in 1800s, by a drunken judge and a clerk.
It was flushed down the toilet by the (R)epelican'ts back in the 70s, when they refused to prosecute Nixon, and wouldn't even secede power.
So please, stop acting like you, or any number of NRA gun nutters, have some kind of moral high ground based.on the Constitution.
You don't.
There's a reason the 1st amendment is first, and I have yet to see positive reaction to this movement from the NRA.
GypsyKing must be a disgruntled loser looking for an excuse to blame others for their shortcomings. Classic toxic person who will never amount to anything.
I take it you never actually read any of your own highly negative posts?
No I haven't The higher my negatives on this forum the more it validates I am right. Unfortunately it's not rubbing off on this forum of communist drones.
Let's see. Looking around this thread, you're big contributions are invectives.
There's "digruntled looser, toxic person, commie drones and brain dead".
Considering the depth of your analyses, I will have to consider it self diagnosis.
wow - I am flattered you are taking such an interest in me lol! I must be hitting a nerve : )
Not really, I noticed and checked your post from the list.
I just wondered why you insist on being so inane.
He already got you to comment on his post so he's amounted to a thorn in your side in under 30 seconds. That's something. ;-)
PS - Change your shirt. People are tired of looking at the Cheetos stains.
good point. - I dont know why the brain dead losers bother me so much. I just cant understand it.
I give you points for being a good sport.
[Removed]
Having failed in their race baiting strategy, and all the myriad other ways they have tried to divide us, the trolls have once again turned to this "Blame Obama" strategy to divide this movement. They have done so, because it get's traction with the young and naieve, who haven't seen that they have always resorted to this as their most effective tactic against the left.
Knowing that left-wingers are idealistic (or just plain stupid in their minds) they can play this "Both Parties are equally corrupt" strategy with real effectiveness. Don't believe it. This struggle will go on for years, and our first priority is to be sure that the Republicans are repudiated soundly in the next election.
Given the "on message" troll tactic for today, (Blame Obama) again, I just thought I'd bring this post to the fore once more as a way of countering that message.
Even worse, deliberate and mindful teaching and brainwashing.
http://www.alternet.org/story/154516/why_the_gop_campaign_for_the_presidency_is_about_guaranteeing_a_radical_conservative_future_for_america?page=entire
Swindlers and swindled: Republicons.
OWS is not an Obama 2012 rally. Blame congress, the supreme court, and Obama, Bush, Clinton, and old Bush.
Peace not war. Here are some facts about Obama and his administration
Wall Street's takeover of the Obama administration is now complete. "The mega-banks and their corporate allies control every economic policy position of consequence. Mr. Obama has moved rapidly since the November debacle to install business people where it counts most. Mr.William Daley from JP Morgan Chase as White House Chief of Staff. Mr. Gene Sperling from the Goldman Sachs payroll to be director of the National Economic Council. Eileen Rominger from Goldman Sachs named director of the SEC's Investment Management division. Even the National Security Advisor, Thomas Donilon, was executive vice president for law and policy at the disgraced Fannie Mae after serving as a corporate lobbyist with O'Melveny & Roberts. The keystone of the business friendly team was put in place on Friday. General Electric Chairman and CEO Jeffrey Immelt will serve as chair of the president's Council on Jobs and Competitiveness."
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/michael-brenner/barack-obama-out-of-the-c_b_813027.html
He supported the bailouts of a fraudulent financial system that is extracting wealth from our country and stealing people's pensions and homes. The bailout money was used by the federal reserve to create 7.7 trillion dollars out of thin air for their own private interest, and Obama has yet to do anything about it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9BXPINPwp4w
ACLU files law suit against the Obama administration for war crimes... not the first time either.
http://www.aclu.org/national-security/al-aulaqi-v-obama
"I'm not disgusted at President Obama personally. It's President Obama's policies on civil liberties and national security issues I'm disgusted by." - ACLU Executive Director Anthony Romero
http://www.politico.com/blogs/joshgerstein/0610/ACLU_chief_disgusted_with_Obama.html
"The Obama administration’s adoption of the stonewalling tactics and opaque policies of the Bush administration flies in the face of the president’s stated desire to restore the rule of law. ... when these photos do see the light of day, the outrage will focus not only on the commission of torture by the Bush administration but on the Obama administration's complicity in covering them up." - ACLU
http://www.aclu.org/2009/05/13/obama-administration-reverses-promise-to-release-torture-photos
OBAMA Administration could grant criminal immunity to Wells Fargo, Bank of America, JPMorgan Chase, and Citibank, those responsible for fraudulent foreclosure practices that drove millions of Americans from their homes during the housing crisis. It's called a settlement.
http://www.thenation.com/blog/165806/obama-brink-settlement-big-banks-and-progressives-are-furious
Obama's new campaign guy is a Wall Street lobbyist
http://dailycaller.com/2011/10/25/obama-defies-base-hires-wall-street-lobbyist-for-re-election-campaign/#ixzz1cQ6oOt4U
"Is this the United States congress, or the board of directors of Goldman Sachs?"-Dennis Kucinich
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YimTs6Q_xD0
In 2009, Obama himself appointed Michael Taylor as a senior adviser for the FDA even though Taylor had formerly served as a vice president for Monsanto.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/blogpost/post/monsanto-petition-tells-obama-cease-fda-ties-to-monsanto/2012/01/30/gIQAA9dZcQ_blog.html
Obama signed this executive order - "The National Defense Resources Preparedness order gives the Executive Branch the power to control and allocate energy, production, transportation, food, and even water resources by decree under the auspices of national defense and national security. Additionally, each cabinet under the Executive Branch has been given specific powers when the order is executed, and include the absolute control over food, water, and other resource distributions." - Talk about big government overstepping it's bounds. Only time will tell how this new power will be used.
http://www.examiner.com/finance-examiner-in-national/president-obama-signs-executive-order-allowing-for-control-over-all-us-resources#ixzz1pPinMxfD
He's bombed more countries than Bush, all violating international laws as well. Countries like Libya, Pakistan, Yemen... etc
His administration is also selling arms to the regime in Bahrain that is killing protesters.
http://www.salon.com/2012/01/30/obama_quietly_sells_arms_to_human_rights_abuser_bahrain/More terrible foreign policy, Obama administration threatens India with sanctions for not obeying the Obama administration. Obviously just a rouse, but this is terrible international relations.http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-03-15/u-s-may-sanction-india-over-level-of-iran-oil-imports.html
Obama extended the Bush tax cuts after letting himself get bullied by republicans.
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-20026069-503544.html
Obama also supports ACTA which is essentially a global version of SOPA that applies to all goods.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/erikkain/2012/01/23/if-you-thought-sopa-was-bad-just-wait-until-you-meet-acta/
He never actually closed guantanamo bay.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/guantanamo-bay-how-the-white-house-lost-the-fight-to-close-it/2011/04/14/AFtxR5XE_story.html
He lied about ending the wars in Iraq and the current withdrawal was scheduled by the Bush administration. The departure from Iraq was required by the 2008 Iraq-U.S. Status of Forces Agreement signed by Iraq Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki and then-President George W. Bush and approved by the Iraqi parliament, giving it the status of law. Once the troops left Iraq, big oil stayed.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S.%E2%80%93Iraq_Status_of_Forces_Agreement
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/10/26/obama-iraq_n_1032507.html
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HUTYL8HfCGo
Obama also supported the patriot act, which essentially allows the federal government to delete the 4th amendment.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vqXmQYHV-1I
Obama signed for the indefinite detention of US citizens without trial into law under provisions of the NDAA and "designates the world as the battlefield and that includes the homeland." -quote senator Lindsey Graham who supported the bill and argued in it's favor.
http://www.hrw.org/news/2011/12/14/us-refusal-veto-detainee-bill-historic-tragedy-rights
http://www.salon.com/2011/12/15/obama_to_sign_indefinite_detention_bill_into_law/
“This bill [the NDAA] authorizes permanent warfare anywhere in the world. It gives the president unchecked power to pursue war. It diminishes the role of this Congress. The founders saw Article 1, Section 8 of the Constitution, which places in the hands of Congress the war power, as essential to a check and balance against the executive abuse of power. This legislation diminishes Congress' role in that regard.” - Dennis Kucinich
In reference to the passing of the new NDAA the Armed Services Committee released this,"the threats posed by al Qaeda cells in Yemen and Africa underscore the evolving and continuing nature of the terrorist threat to the United States. The Conference Report ensures the United States will have the ability to meet this threat and neutralize terrorists from these groups and conduct effective interrogations." More war for Obama!
http://armedservices.house.gov/index.cfm/files/serve?File_id=23d194d7-78c9-4c57-b2d9-31bc3bb7daeb
List of terrorist organizations our country could start war with and the countries they're in..
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_designated_terrorist_organizations
"This [the National Defense Authorization Act of 2011] designates the WORLD as the battlefield... and that includes the homeland." - Senator Lindsey Graham on video - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fzFygkHgi34
Next stop Africa and Yemen!!! Maybe Iran or Syria next? Who knows? It's the government. It's a threat to national security to tell you the truth all the time.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/obama-heads-to-asia-with-sharp-focus-on-chinas-growing-power/2011/11/10/gIQAOsQkBN_story.html
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/44/post/obama-us-to-send-250-marines-to-australia-in-2012/2011/11/16/gIQAO4AQQN_blog.html
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=01-2pNCZiNk
His administration has continually suppressed and refused to reveal information about the wars even years later.
Oh and don't forget about this Hour long presentation in congress about Al Qaeda members being involved with the Libyan rebels, as well as extremists, rapists, and murderers.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-G0pUEU603Q&list=FLEwSllwonAZBCc7W3e27_dQ&index=42&feature=plpp_video
In case any of you don't like the first video because it's a republican here is super Liberal Dennis Kucinich railing against Al Qaeda ties with the Libyan rebels as well.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pSUnluGSOdM&list=FLEwSllwonAZBCc7W3e27_dQ&index=43&feature=plpp_video
NATO commander admits that "flickers" of Al Qaeda and Hezbollah terrorists among the Libyan rebels. This should officially classify them as "associated forces" under the NDAA of 2012. - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rtGe6zk52Cw
Proof of inhumanity amongst the "libyan rebels" as they torture blacks on video - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L4icorYD_mE&list=FLEwSllwonAZBCc7W3e27_dQ&index=1&feature=plpp_video
Here's an article with Ralph Nader on the unconstitutional actions by Obama and his administration against Libya, "Why don’t we say what’s on the minds of many legal experts; that the Obama administration is committing war crimes and if Bush should have been impeached, Obama should be impeached."
http://www.salon.com/2011/03/21/ralph_nader_obama_impeachment/
Another good article on the topic.
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0311/51595.html
You really are a parrot I think. I didn't know they could teach parrots to type. Plus, you came up with that pretty darn quick to be working alone! I think I've had enough of this non-conversation, thanks anyway.
This list of links is a saved note on my facebook so I can share it easily.
I share it with people who aren't informed of the truth. The truth that both parties work for war and the 1%.
These are all facts here. You can't shoot down facts with name calling.
One last (tiresome) time. Do you have a plan for how this movement can progress for the next year? Naw, I think we dealt with that before. Over and OUT!
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Obama is just a passing player on the field, like the rest of them. He's not to blame; yet, like the rest of them, he cooperates with them.
Agreed, we need to form some sort of reform party to break this Republicrat monopoly on politics, but AFTER the next election please. Then we will have time to field real candidates and create a new party.
the koch payroll is growing
I hope it costs them millions!
whatever it costs them, it will cost us more
My math is a bit assumptive -
but I calculated that in the Article V convention they are
pushing for - they could buy enough delegates to get
a custom made constitution for less than $250,000,000
A little bit of historical trivia - America has never called for a constitutional convention. The 1787 Philadelphia Convention
was called under the Articles of Confederation - to amend it.
In stead, it threw it out and threw out the ratification process.
Can you imagine what soon to be unemployed politicians -
beam-me-up walker, professor newt, dingbat ron, mr. bain, and cotton mather could do at a constitutional convention?
Yeah, the thought has crossed my mind. We are in a very complicated battle here, and sometimes it's hard to know where to turn. I think that is to some degree predicated upon what they do, it's got to be flexible - we have to have a flexible response, rather that a fixed plan that isn't adaptable to their counter manouvers.
The very same can be said for your side.
The very same what?