Forum Post: Trickledown greed
Posted 13 years ago on Oct. 27, 2011, 7:33 a.m. EST by alternateu
(29)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement
I have noticed, in the past years, that the greed/corruption/deception & abuses visited on all of us by the largest corporate & gov't power structures has had the effect of emboldening & encouraging more of the lesser players who act @ more local & regional levels around me - where I live.
And in every town & state & village. I think MANY of you have noticed this effect. Some of this may be out of fear, & but much of it is a kind of trickled-down, go-ahead green light for any level of predatory capitalism, (or official scammery) be it national, state, or local. And in any enterprise where profit takes the lead over what should be a balancing empathy, understanding, or humanity.
buik, ETBass, jpu: U guys are basically talking economic theory - that's quite OK to do....I'm trying to locate the Darwinian roots of all this hierarchizing. The foundation problem/cause of all this mess is hierarchy itself. (!) Could be socalist, communist, capitalist, theocratic, cultistic, whatever - the hierarchic process ALWAYS ends up in the same way - i.e. 'who can beat up who, who can eat up who, who is the alpha, the double alpha, the triple alpha....who will rule by force, fear"... & (our species more recent addition): brainwashing.
I'm pondering the hominid, central fkup trait that intiates this appalling crap, & is the DNA soil out of which these spectacular injustices grow...that culminate in what we have right now...that's what has to be changed. Or that's the level I approach these things on. The twisted economics are the System's secondary result... I want to know the root cause(s)
i agree w buik, but, don't think u should be so nasty about it, re: many of the demostrators are already aware that their personal goods come via slave labor conditons.
It gets to the point where just about anything you touch, use, wear, commonly in daily life is either derived from slave labor/internment camps in Asia or S America (they'll add a few others, if not already) as well as the horrific torture of animals to gain knowledge.(or food)
How can anyone blame people for not being green enough when you have to be a damn near superhuman researcher (or superhuman, period) to seek out the things (or sources of them) that are trustworthily green - manufactured - much less be able to afford them. This stuff has been sneaking up on all of us for years.
We are the most technically advanced tho....so, we would be the most powerful Empire. I would'nt want to be on the wrong end of that power structure, but, that's why we are all here, isn't it?
The wrong end of that superstate is getting around to eating up its middle class. Its ordinary ordinaries, everyday people, u might sasy....Imagine u r in a field in some 3rd world country, & a high tech bomber plane has just decimated your village. Your friends, fam, et al - dead all around you - & NO ONE will know about it due to what has become a very fickle, controlled media now.
Try it some time: if you are out in the country, let your imagination go into this. See that plane coming overheard, & it's payload is headed in your direction, & no one will know or give a flying fk. It's scary.
Maybe I should say it this way : when power TO turns into power OVER. Power over = colonial empires (& not just ours) extracting the natural resources of the developing world via placing paid-for torture states there, in order to hold down any rebellions, as said resources are extracted, But - we are not the only empire on this planet that is about this.
ETBass - (hey r u a bass player by chance?)
By 'predatory capitalism' a system where the profit motive - a normal acquisitiveness of humans - gets carried off into situations (& huge hierarchies of power) where empathy & humanity are bypassed, & cruelty & cruel practices become accepted norms. I don't think they are a norm...something diverted humans off in some fork in the evolutionary road, towards excessively hardened ego/power trips. Ego is OK, just has been hyper emphasized by humans.
But the results,,agghh; ugly horrific stuff.
Henry Ford's idea that the best way to a healthy economy is through ... was doubling the pay of thousands of his employees, to at least $5 a day. ... "Paying high wages," he concluded, "is behind the prosperity of this country." ...
Trickle UP ECONOMICS is and always was the best thing for the nation's economic interest. Capitalism, in its current state, will eat itself and the 99% around it. We need fair trade terms with China. They have a VAT tax on imports, we don't.
I'd be up for some tickle up economics!
lol- i fixed it.
The trickle down plan doesn't trickle the right things down.
Predatory capitalism? What the heck is that? Consumers Are free to make buying and spending choices every day. Absent fraud, which by far the exception to the rule, where is predation in the free exchange of goods?
really? you can think of no capitalist activity that is predatory?? are you really that thick? or just disingenuous. ;)
Ofcourse there are bad apples, they exist everywhere. But capitalism by it's nature with the supposition of free will is in no way predatory. No one makes me buy a 60" TV or take out a new car loan.
how about pay your electrical and water bill,. how about getting food,. corporation own all the farms now,. what choice is there. how about gas! do you like the price? those private corporations seem to make a lot of profit selling you what grew out of the ground,. can you say monopoly? how about taking the bus to work,. privatised transit systems abound,. monopoly again. pay or don't play. or how about the simple basic human need a place to live?? rent or buy you are still made to pay for the right to just live! the 1% claims ownership of all the land and sells us what we need to survive.
Nothing to do with "bad apples" the system is corrupt and the game is rigged so the 1% keep getting more and more,. search your hart, you know this is true.
You have to pay for goods and services, your examples make no sense. I don't have time to grow my own food so I pay someone else to do it and they make money off their effort. I could care less if it is a big company or a small farmer, the product I want at a price I am willing to pay and everyone wins. I can buy a car or bike to work. It's my choice, but unless I can and want to make a bike or a car I pay someone else to do it. That's how the system works, free and reasonable exchange, and no other system comes close in generating products to serve needs and creating general wealth. It's so obvious, which is why you all puzzle me. If you aren't satisfied do something about it, but camping in Manhatten isn't going to get it done.
"It's so obvious, which is why you all puzzle me." I feel exactly the same way,. about your comments! How can you possible not understand the world you live in? You view is so overly simplistic, I can see why you like it,. you just ignore all facts, and keep saying the same thing over and over. You actually have to try if you really want to see.
Look, the oil in the ground is not owned by anyone, no ones labour or ingenuously put it there. Yet it is claimed by mega corporations,. they extract it leaving the area a toxic mess. They sell this to everyone at a huge profit,. they gouge on long weekends when they know people will be travelling to be with family,. and then they take the huge monopoly generated profits,. and then invest some into manipulating our politics, laws, and even the public debate (global warming - Koch Bros,. these guys are spending wheelbarrows full of cash to spread lies and misinformation.). This is only one industry,. all are similar,. monopolistic mega-capitalism is blight on the planet. You have no choice about most of this now,. as the interlinking of these mega corporations means wherever you purchase most items,. your money goes to just a handful of the very same people.
The "free and reasonable exchange" you think still exists is about 100 years gone,. . come join us in the year 2011!
You speak in the language of talking points, not markets. Why shouldn't oil companies charge what the market will bear. I have been a principal in a small business and regional executive in large business. I know why firms invest and how to create value in the market. The world of platitudes is for those who know little of how markets work.
Charge what the market will bear? You really miss the point,. natural resources are what make most of the 1% their fortunes,. these resources are NOT theirs,. they make a deal with the politicians of the day,. and exploit the resources that belong to all of us. This is a rather simple point.
Platitudes? Such as; "charge what the market will bear", "free and reasonable exchange", please.
Don't assume others level of knowledge.
Here is some advanced study for you; zerohedge.com or try maxkeiser.com
Get your info. where the day traders do.
The resources certainly are theirs. Can you get them? Can you refine them? Can you get finished product to market? That's why we pay the oil companies to it when we buy their finished goods. They pay for the rights to extract raw materials which is not fair it is efficient in bringing energy to market. The system works well until pols stick their nose where it doesn't belong.
We will be sticking more than our nose into the dealings of the 1%. The corruption is so thick you can hardly walk through the street., . this will end! (probably quite badly for the greedy corrupt I am happy to say ;) )
Sorry you just 'don't get it',. but all natural resource like oil, water, fish, trees, farmland, uranium, yttrium, etc. are collective wealth of the people,. we can use the value of our resources to build a human community where all are able to live simply,. and on top of that build an entrepreneurial economy for value added innovation where those so inclined can generate even more,. . but letting 1% steal so much that people are starving and can not afford homes,. is just not acceptable.
They are not part of the collective by any stretch. Private property brother is the foundation of our successful economic system. It's what makes any viable system work.
It looks like we are at a stand off my friend. I have not convinced you if the merits of the market and it's potential to deliver to you. Good luck to you , I think you are wrong, but that's why this is a great country. We can debate and disagree all good. Peace.
our economic system is anything but successful! ecocide being a direct result of taking so little into account,. only profits! There is so much more to account for in living systems.., search; permaculture.
but yes,. I see you are an unmovable object so I also say; peace.
On CNN this morning Bob Wedeman called the OC protesters holding signs re: Communist China fringe elements attracted to the movement. Just shows they don't get it. The relationship between corporate greed and manufacturing in a communist country that has no human rights, labor protections, etc. is exactly what OC is about - corporate greed at its ugly worst!
walmart - fook - local & regional builders & developers steamrollering hi profit bldg on every viable patch of real estate
Pull the lever for D/R Duopoly for 100 yrs and this is what you get.
People get the government they deserve.