Forum Post: To You who doesnt think you owe us anything:
Posted 13 years ago on Oct. 12, 2011, 7:39 a.m. EST by ockupera
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Who gave you light? Who gave you food? Who gave you medicin? Who gave you oil? Who gave you electricity? Who gave you... everything?! Just because You have money, does not make you special. We are all special! Or do you disagree?
Just because you made your way to wealth, it doesn't mean you are more than others. Many people invents things that are good for us people, others even do it for free.
The world isnt good right now, and it's not a time to think selfishly! And it will be worse! The world in a nutshell;
Loans, debt, greed, shock rise in interest rates, war, money, corruption, quality bad (!) Products that allow them to break (fast!), starving children, food stamps, environmental disgusting behavior all over, the sicker we humans becomes the higher the GDP (!), toxic emissions, mass murder, no cooperation, inequality, massive unemployment which will also rise sharply, slavery ... and worst of all: it will be even worse!
The "great depression" will seem relatively mild in comparison!
I think we must have a Resource-based economy (RBE)! - its for everyone, and will make life so much better than today, I really think! If you dont know what RBE is, see the movie Zeitgeist Moving Forward (Youtube for exempel).
I completely and totally 100%$ with ockupera.
and I'm glad to see I'm not the only one shouting out in support of such an idea. you cant get much more revolutionary than that. How better to take out Wall St than to render it unnecessary?! Personally, I think it's beautiful.
So long as money is in the world, so long as it is used and believed in by the whole, there will be greed, selfishness, and poor, even homeless people. NONE of this will go away, companies wont gain more integrity, while money is around. We made it, we can come up with something else. Money is the only obstacle anyone has.. 'cause there's enough food, clean energy, clothing, medicine, housing.. for people to live.
Hi, just reading down ...
Did you ever think that, before money, when there was only barter, that just maybe there was still greed? I, being human, and acknowledging human failings, suspect it is so.
That 'enough' you mention was and is true because someone produced the food, clean energy, clithing, medicine, housing, for people to live. And yes, there are bad examples of Big Bad Corporations (I have my own list) doing the wrong thing -- but the engine that used to drive America was small business. Far more jobs there, where they should be, than multinationals could ever hope to produce.
Money is only a tool, and a fiat dollar is a very poor one, corrupted by government. But it used to be able to approximately measure some value in a country. Like any tool, it can be evil or good, of itself is has no morality. Have you ever picked up a knife and, for one reason or another, cut yourself without meaning to? That is the nature of a tool.
"We made it" is sort of true. And "we can come up with somethig else" is a maybe -- but the one factor missing is: who makes the 'stuff'? Now, if you work in a factory (the means of production) you might estimate the =cost= of the equipment you use -- cuz all that 'enough' does not come from thin air, like the Fed fiat dollars. (Monopoly money!)
Back to your opening, I think you will find eliminating greed has nothing to do with money. But I wish you well in your quest.
the only motivation people have in this civilization is to make money. change the motivation.
in the past, if a persons barn burned down, the whole community would come help build another. that's the kind of mentality I'm talking about. it already exists. we just need a system that fosters it. monetary systems foster only the negative behaviors in society.
there was greed. but not nearly as much of it. a moneyless system, in this day and age, when humanity has discovered and invented so much, has great potential to change the mindset of "me me me" to "us us us".
Caly,
Thank you for your response. You make another good point. "Us."
And yes, "us" is more easily recognized in the small beach side village where I live. The big city, not so much.
Try not to become a man of success, but rather try to become a man of value. ~Albert Einstein
I agree, we should give it to the people who really own the land: native americans.
A wise man would say that wealth is a good thing where by it allows one to create opportunities for others who may be less fortunate.
Wealth does no good for anyone if it is based on human greed.
A wise man would say that wealth is a good thing where by it allows one to create opportunities for others who may be less fortunate.
Wealth does no good for anyone if it is based on human greed.
I just love how this group talks so much about loans. If you don't want to pay it back, then don't borrow it. It's called taking responsibility.
Hey pompous dude. When you don't pay people enough to survive, what are they supposed to do - starve? I'm sure you would like that.
you dont know anything about me. you liberals like to put words into other people's mouths. just don't act so damn surprised when a lender actually wants payments to be made as scheduled.
If you think we're lazy liberal pot heads then get the hell of the site. It's funny that you assume everyone here is just a lazy irresponsible person who can't balance a check, yet when I make assumptions about you, you don't like it do you?
all i said was that if someone borrows money, they should expect to pay it back. And from that you surmise that I think you are a lazy pot head who can't balance a check book?
I have made no assumptions, you have
Sorry if I was wrong - these forums have been infested with trolls who just say we are lazy and can't balance a checkbook etc and to those people they should just leave
Ban everything that's bad, legislate that oly good things can be legal. To those with money, beware, you might have made it, but I deserve it!
what if what is "good" for you, is "bad" for someone else? The answer is not to make things illegal or legal. That will just make more lawbreakers... 'causing more money to be spent because of them. No. The answer is to do away with money all together. EVERYONE deserves the luxuries and high technological advantages that exist in this world. Money need have nothing to do with it.
No one deserves shit. You have the right to earn it
So basically the most basic right - right to life is just totally bogus in your opinion? Should we just let people starve in the streets and live like animals? Should we forget every lesson of all the religions combined about human compassion and even natural law?
Funny, right to life. Saying that would get y shot by most of these protesters.
well then earn it with your skill, your knowledge, your ability. not by "making money". All money is, is liquid whatever-you-want. why not earn whatever-you-want by contributing your skills and knowledge to the rest of the world? It need NOT be like any other system before. We have more in this world as a whole than we ever did before. There is ABUNDANCE here.. money is the only hindrance.
It's official; you guys are not going to change a damn thing. For some reason you aren't focusing what American will support you for, which is election contribution reform. Everybody can support banning corporations from providing financial support to candidates (or at least minimum support), but nobody is going to listen to you if you think the hard earned dollars of successful people should be shared.
It's all I'm hearing lately. "Oh cry for me because I have much less money than you do. I got a stupid degree in college, partied with my friends, was lazy in high school and man I just HATE working, but wow apparently the ONLY difference between me and you is somehow you're IDENTICAL to me but you have more money than me - and that's not fair!" I have a big problem with this attitude. Obviously people who act this way don't understand that some of us work REALLY HARD for what we have.
Everybody talks about financial fairness, but there are other things here. I've seen several people at my job who don't have friends, for example. What about them? I think if you're going to insist on financial fairness so much you need to consider what it TAKES to get all this money! More time working means less time socializing and, in general, having a life. The guy I'm thinking of specifically just retired, never married, but probably has 50 million dollars at least that he'll never use.
I know it sounds weird, but I've thought about this for a while. So many liberal people I know talk about how 'unfair' life is, but only strictly in the economic sense, yet they're rich beyond this guys dreams in their social life. So be glad with what you have, work for things you want, but for Christ's sake stop crying about how much better off other people are. They're better off than you not because somehow they just dropped into a pile of money but because they spent all those hours working that you spent drinking, going on vacation, partying with buds, relaxing on the couch watching tv, playing with your pets, etc.
Yeah life's not fair - some people never have to worry about anything because their parents pay their student loans, get them jobs at daddy's business and then they grow up to be a dbag thinking everyone who wasn't so lucky is just lazy.
Really nice thoughts,
However Campaign finance reform is one of the main goals I would say. Redestribution of wealth is a secondary goal that will quickly be dropped when conservatives join the movement.
Maybe all you hear is what you want to hear? You want focus? Focus on the myriad voices with myriad criticisms of a broken system.
And the Janus two-faced one-party system is a common problem. Get yourself out of the left-right paradigm -- it's a fractal world in reality, a spectrum maybe, not digital/binary. Sheesh! All you final paragraph is a whine about a legend in your own mind. It is not true of all. You sound like a boomer or early Gen-X whining that the young are going to the dogs. And I am an old not-so-Silent who believes these young people that your lot thought didn't give a damn, suddenly have risen up to make a difference. They're energized, involved, and yes, empowered like you and most of my ilk probably never were.
Sure, I've seen examples of what you yap about; and sadly true in all cohorts across time. Do not tar them all with the same brush. And I've seen young activists speaing clearly, from principle, that shame me for thinking what I was at their age in my spin on the wheel.
Someone might say, "Judge not lest ye be judged." Well, I am not religious but can quote scripture on occasion. So can the bringer of light. Nonetheless, a good point to consider.
I have thought about 'this' for not a long while, but for decades. Fighting the Man, trying to make do, wondering why it seemed like running as fast as you can in one place. Trying to explain to people 40 years ago that the FedRes was a horrendous scam and being branded a crazy. Doesn't matter. Maybe I planted some seeds that thrived and they are bearing fruit.
I am damn excited that there will be a sea change for America and these young people who have most to save of what the country once was, will prevail. And yes, all the older ones who join with them. I'd like to be there but am probably on a no-fly (or other) list. Heh.
Life isnt fair. Nature isnt fair when it decides what animal lives and which dies. We are no different. While money exists there will be both obscenely rich on one end and homeless on the other. It's existence is the direct cause for these two opposites. Since we created this system (it's not divine or natural in any way) then we can create another system that can take it all away.
I might add: all those people you talk to on facebook, all those people you hang out with on weekends, these are the people that make life bearable. Money doesn't do that, it just helps somewhat. Friends are what humans need, not possessions. I think the grossest injustice which could occur in America would be for some law to take effect and all this money these people have worked for would get removed and given to YOU guys! Because what would they get in return?? Nothing, not only would guys like the retired individual from my job be out of friends but he wouldn't have any money to show for it anymore. And if you want to 'level the playing field' starting in the future, I bet many of these people will seriously lower their productive output (I would!) because why try when it's just going to get redistributed! All I say is thank God I have the friendship circles that I have or I couldn't keep what I'm doing up.
Something to think about.
Nobody gave me any of those things - I bought it with the money I earned from working.