Forum Post: To the Police around the united states
Posted 13 years ago on Oct. 14, 2011, 9:17 a.m. EST by imbaddakota
(42)
from Indianapolis, IN
This content is user submitted and not an official statement
I stand here as much for you as for myself. We, you and I, are the 99%.
Ask yourself where you pension went. Add up how much you spent on healthcare last year and how much "health" you got for it. Remember when you fill your gastank when gas was $1.19 a gallon. Contemplate why you get paid less than those who do not risk their lives each day.
Only then, with those questions asked, approach me on 15October.
I stand here as much for you as for myself. We, you and I, are the 99%.
and you are welcome here always
I watched the Des Moines video of the State Police arresting the protesters.
What I didn't see was police brutality. Not saying it didn't happen, just that I didn't see it. And it bothers me when people exaggerate. Especially when I agree with what they are fighting for.
I would like to point out, the blue shirts who are charged with "keeping the peace", arresting protesters, are not the ones who make the decision to do so. That decision comes from the top down. These Officers of the Law would probably prefer to be at home watching the game and having a beer. When people lock arms and resist arrest they actually escalate the anger the cops feel against the protesters.
I'm not advocating either side here. Just trying to bring an alternate point of view. That cops are people too. People with family. People who have wants and desires. And I don't think they want or desire to arrest grandma.
I'm not a fan of cops. In my opinion many of them are arrogant and have control issues. But then I wouldn't want to do their job.
Maybe, just maybe, protesters should not resist arrests and not escalate the conflict for media attention.
Police are mercenaries. Paid to protect their masters. .
and the corporatists are attacking police and fireman just as much as the rest of the public servants. Look at that corporate puppett mayor in Newark. The corportists will use the police to do their dirty work until they privatize police in the USA. I know, my family is full of police and fireman.
much love
I bet you a majority of them are sympathetic. The brutal and piggish police we see in videos are no more a representation of police as a whole than the troublesome wannabe radicals who start shit with them are a representation of the OWS movement as a whole.
Eventually even the police will start understanding that they are part of the 99%...especially when it comes time for lay offs. The world is waking up...and that is a dragon no bureaucrat can stop.
Note: In the 60s we traveled to protests for less than 40 cents a gallon.
Great posting!
I am actively AGAINST any disrespect to people in uniform. They are members of the 99% too.
Willing to appropriate to resolve the problem! Are ordinary people! God bless!
Of course, the whole pension structure is part of the problem everywhere. Govt. workers, esp. politicians, police, sheriff, highway patrol (authorities) are rewarded very well which often drains public coffers. In a small city where I lived in northern Calif., nearly half of the city's annual budget went to financing retirement of police and fire retirees. This is one of those items that needs to be redressed but it is one of very many. Difficult issue to deal with as public employees especially law enforcement and fire dept. want to protect all this. Course, they may end of up losing some or much of it as cities and counties increasingly face bankruptcy. The bottom line, Everybody needs to sacrifice for the Common Good, a concept foreign to Americans who have digested the ethos of Individualism for so long, that they have become narcissistic and selfish to the point of not even understanding the connection between individuals and the Society which they compose. Spiritual values are followed only nominally, not in practice for far too many people. Sacrifice, a beautiful word, sacrifice of self for others. A religious and spiritual value and process, one bespeaking a deeper humanity which connects the individual to the whole. Also typically, makes you feel really good.
Not to mention the size of this force. In my state we do have 200 counties and one sheriff, marshal, firearms, fbi, not counting local city police, per country. Multiply this force by the number of counties in each states to be aware of the mass. No wonder we are imploring due to the size of it.
The national debt is about equal to the money congress "cant find" from a few years back, and less than what we are spending in the middle east. It makes me wonder how much monetary "sacrifice" the average american would really have to make if our government worked properly.
Well, the bottom line is if we had a rational structure then we wouldn't have most or any of these problems. The country began to live off debt about in the 1970s. If you look at a graph of debt and growth since then, they are about the same. In other words, Debt financed the last forty years. The Federal Govt. is in debt 14 trillion. The supposed household private debt on mortgages ins another 10 trillion, add in all other debt of states, counties, cities, corporations, business, etc. and it is supposedly in the tens of trillions of dollars. The system teachers greed and narcissism, because that is the effect of our economic system-Modern Consumer Capitalism. The ultimate problem is that the system needs people to consume wantonly and irresponsibly and therefore the social structures (family, schools, other institutions such as the media) create the perfect consumer. The traits? Irresponsibility, undisciplined and impetuous. That's how and why people buy shit they can not afford and need to compensate themselves psychological for the psychic damage down through the system (lack of healthy child rearing practices, good education system, etc.). The system has a fundamental flaw: it needs consumers whose character traits do not prepare them for work. You can not create the perfect consumer and worker in this society. That is why immigrant labor is so important and always has been. Endless consumption is not a solution to our problems. The bottom line. We should be Working to Live. The capitalists (as Marx tried to explain it, got it backwards), they ultimately want us to Live to Work. This is a lot of info in a short space, I realize but it goes to the heart of the matter but is perhaps to academic for most here.
it is not too academic for me, i agree with you for the most part. The problem i see is now that we have this immobilized, medicated, consumerized, workforce. How do you pry them off the couch they just bought and get them to change when they understand so little, and run to the basement and hide every time the mass media tells them to.
The historical dialectic preaches that this is a perfect time to protest and educate and grow consciousness. The Formula is: Conditions + Catalyst = Change. So, we have Suffering/Anger as a result of deteriorating economic conditions forcing social dissatisfaction. The protests are the catalyst to move the process forward, to mobilize, educate, communicate. The other parts of the catalyst are Leaders, Facilitators, Speakers, Organization and a Plan. That means US. And many people on this site and other places. This is where there is opportunity since ideas can change consciousness since people are more open to it. The suffering and anger opens their minds to new ideas. This is the classic movement of the dialectic in history, a real moment to effect change. If conditions get worse then it grows. We of course have to be prepared and adapt, be creative, proactive, committed, etc. You only deal with the people you meet at these demonstrations and spread the word, get them excited and involved. The more organized and dynamic the leadership and organization, the more it grows. I once did a fundraiser walkathon in the 1980s over U.S. involvement in El Salvador. We raised $10,000, drew a couple hundred walkers, did a 10 kilometer walk which attracted a lot of attention. Then, the next meeting, 20 new people showed up. The problem was the chapter was not prepared and committed enough to handle all the new infusion of energy and ideas. We were not organized internally. I have seen this problem repeatedly in other groups. That's why I always talk about organization. I always say to people to deal in reality. You can't change people, that comes from within, their own process. But if they are angry, hurting, alienated, they become open to new ideas and CS. I have seen it many times. That's why I am excited about this time. This time it is about the very essence of our society and the vast disequilibrium herein. Time to get out, talk to people, connect, meet, organize, chat, argue, discuss, converse, dialogue. The excitement of doing something which create more enthusiasm. We need to be more creative in our Protests also. There are a lot of creative, imaginative types among us. Masks, flags, signage, costumes, we need to create theatre....attracts the media. then we have spokespeople who can step forward and articulate one or more reasons for being there. I am pushing for One Demand: Four Reforms that are needed: 1) Wall Street; 2) Electoral Process; 3) Congress; 4) Taxes. All connected by single thread of argument. Wall Street corruption and abuses are reflective of the nature of concentrated wealth and its domination in the body political which means (2) that the electoral process needs to be changed (public funding amongst other changes) as well as 3) parliamentary changes in the legislative process in Congress which makes it impossible for the legislative branch to function according to majority rule (the abuse of the filibuster but also other antiquated parliamentary processes). Ultimately, an essential part of the problem is the Unfair Tax System where the wealthiest and wealthier amongst us are not paying enough taxes to allow us to resolve some problems. Once the abuses of the parliamentary process are resolved, legislative on taxes can move forward (in theory).
The top rates need to be raised significantly. We can talk about other rational processes to deal with aspects of the welfare state which Republicans will even agree on. But, here, for our immediate purposes, these four reforms, I believe, strike a chord with all of America and would have at least 60% support of the population. IF not these four essential Reforms, we can agree to two or three and stay focused (the whole thing is up for discussion). Do not want to spell out all details at this point. Just say that this is a basic outline and explain why (the inequity, the injustice ...also people need to do some work to be informed here). The real point is to find general things that a strong majority agree with as opposed to a long laundry list of demands (that can come later when we are more organized), Now, the protests are a method to draw numbers into what should be an organization with chapters across the country. I envision 1000 or more. Chapters would collect dues, sliding scale, and meetings facilitated by basic parliamentary rules that allow for discussions to move forward (don't want endless babble and philosophical discussion which can occur after or before meetings). Right now, we need to be practically oriented to build a process to facilitate Action, Education, Communiciation. That means we need some structure, some organization. This means real commitment to a certain number of hours per week or month. Consensus can be a problem with getting things done. I suggest a 75% vote instead. If you can't get agreement on something, move on to the next thing. Don't argue. Need to have everybody in accord with basic principles and etiquette. Those who want total consensus do not understand that infiltrators can then stymie whole process.
My fear is that most people could not keep focused long enough to get through what you just wrote or not understand it.
Though i hate to explain it in such a pedestrian way, we have quite a bit of detox to do before we can start rebuilding anything real. Almost to the point of intervention. the sort of open dialog you describe is almost counterintuitive to people these days.
People are so afraid of change they will defend what is bad for them.
Don't let at the big picture, you will feel overwhelmed. At the very least, we do these things for ourselves and others....so that we all can learn and grow. You have to do these things with a spiritual mindset, be in the moment and do not be attached to results. That way, no disappointment. You choose to only look for opportunities. Don't have vast expectations. Focus on the immediate concerns. I am basically a cynic myself but, like I say, this is an incredible opportunity. If things continue to spiral downward, it is a golden opportunity. What do we have to lose? Work, commit, dedicate some time, don't overdo it, enjoy yourself while you are at it: these are the lessons I have learned. You are not going to change the world, nor the political system here overnight. We want some reforms, maybe one. The best thing we can do is to educate people as to the corruptive and dysfunctional system we have. What we are attempting to do is HUGE. Women's suffrage, Civil Rights, the Vietnam Anti-War Protests all had the advantage of working for one thing, essentially. If we can, the focus should boil down to ONE REFORM...perhaps the Public Funding of Federal Elections. That would be very significant. The real problem is that there is no clear focus and a lot of energy will be dissipated and people will get frustrated. What we are doing now is really important: dialogue to get clarity (the original dialectical method of Socrates). In order to get clarity, this and other discussion much occur. Don't get frustrated too early. Work for Clarity of Purpose. Have Discussion with many people.
oh i am not discouraged, i am so excited. this is a wonderful thing. and i am ready.
In my county the average police officer makes $100k a year. He can retire in his 50's and gets a pension that's 80% of what he was earning.
The average citizen here earns $45k a year.
Sorry, but no government worker should get paid more than the average citizen. I would argue that their pay should be capped at whatever the median is. Pensions? That should be the workers responsibility. Let them save some of their earnings....
sorry to disagree, but if the police were doing their job of protecting the community (instead of the system). I would not have a problem if they made more than the guy at the convenience store.
and here very few people (cops or otherwise) have any salary left to save after their bills.
1) Do you really consider a convenience store clerk to represent the median salary of the US?
2) Do you really support paying the muscle double, so long as they are kicking in the teeth of the people whose teeth you want kicked in?
What an endearing philosophy.
1) yes, most americans are making under 30k a year in medium to no skill jobs.
2) no, if you read what i wrote i specifically point out if they were here for us instead of the system, and i did NOT say double.
Glad you acknowledge most americans make under 30k a year. Why then do you compare a cops salary to that of a convenience store clerk who probably makes 16k a year? Why not instead compare a cop to the type of job that might actually make 50k a year, which would still be beside the point since cops pull in 100k a year with early retirement plus a pension most would kill for.
maybe in big cities, but 100k isnt near "average".
but i am not defending cops in any way. i am not advocating any salary, I am (clearly unsucessfully) trying to simply point out that the cops should not see the protesters as "the other" because they are getting screwed too, or if it is easier to understand, their families (who are not cops) are as surely getting screwed as we are, so why are cops against this?
JUST FACTS INVESTIGATIONS Phone 203-612-1987
October 13, 2011
Lt. Rebeca Garcia Internal Affairs Bridgeport Police Department
Re: Lt. Cummings
I came for a program at the library about 9/11. I was polite to every person.
Maurice decided to interfere with allowing me to ask the group if they wanted to hear what I had to say. He had no right to interfere with my purpose so I asked the librarian to allow me to ask the people who came for 9/11 if they wanted to hear what I had to say.
When Maurice tried to interfere by stating I’m a conspiracy nut, I told the librarian to call the cops and let them settle it. I expected that the cops would intervene, let me ask my question and if the group didn’t want to hear what I came there to speak about 9/11, I would leave. It was a 9/11 group specifically. Why wouldn’t they want to decide? Why would Sgt. Whalen threaten to have me arrested unless Sgt. Whalen gets emotional about exposing the evidence that proves our government rigged the explosives that murdered the cops, firefighters, and other people involved in the rescue. That is irrational. If I’m wrong about any conclusion based on the evidence, this is your best opportunity to prove I’m a nut. Threatening to arrest me proves that Sgt Whalen is a liar and a nut. Disorderly conduct is a lie and a false charge.
Lt Cummings decided that I should be glad I didn’t get arrested. I committed no crime, why should I be glad the cop decided to lie on his report and threaten me. Any intelligent trained officer would have said let the man ask his question and see what those people wanted. Lt Cummings told me, “You didn’t get arrested,” (4 times). Let’s ask Lt. Cummings why he said that 4 times. I asked the Lt, “Do you think I’m an asshole?” I knew I didn’t get arrested.
If Sgt Whalen is a nut who believes the government’s ridiculous lies and cover up about setting explosives into the 3 towers that brought them straight down at free fall speed – that’s what made Sgt Whalen angry at me. That is a physical impossibility. So Sergeant Whalen is another Bridgeport Police Officer who is flagrantly committing
• Obstructing justice • Treason – protecting the real perpetrators that were definitely President Bush, Attorney General John Ashcroft, Condoleezza Rice, Larry Silverstein and a huge conspiracy
That is a crazy and dangerous anti American crime. I am going to do my best to expose your unified decision to keep protecting the perpetrators of this spectacular crime.
Regards, Stephen A. Miller
um...okay...what???
Intro paragraph please, i need a little context before this letter
My letter was written to LT Garcia who knows the context. My purpose is to expose the 9/11 cover up. This all began when I got arrested in Jan for harassment -- a completely false charge. I conducted a very civil meeting with Capt Vaidero. 2 weeks later I was arrested. Next court date is Nov 4.
I wish this entire movement could watch my trial.
Call me. My number is on the letter. The cops have fallen into my trap. There are more posts on my blog. http://overthecoals.blogspot.com/