Forum Post: To the Christians on here
Posted 13 years ago on Nov. 8, 2011, 9:47 p.m. EST by ARod1993
(2420)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement
Honestly, Christianity (or any religion for that matter) says what you want it to say and means what you want it to mean. If you're an authoritarian you use it as a banner of provincialism around which you can rally your people and as a draconian behavioral code which you enforce at your whim. If you're intolerant and hateful you'll find those passages in your scriptures that endorse violence against and harassment of people who live or think differently than you. There is ample evidence of this sort of behavior throughout history.
However, if you're more of an individualist you'll take the stories of the prophets and read them as tales of outcasts and rejects whose wisdom was inconvenient yet indisputable, and you'll read them as warnings against following the crowd too closely. If you want change from our current system you'll read and take heart in the tale of the moneylenders in the temple, and you'll take it as a call to action. If you believe in tolerance and diversity then your faith will be based around "love thy brother, love thy enemy" and you will live your life according to that principle.
In all honesty, the religious right in this country falls mostly if not completely into the former category. Their leaders are authoritarian, intolerant sexist, homophobic, and greedy (and on occasion just plain nuts) and these leaders choose to use Christian fundamentalism as a means to rally scared, angry people behind them against imaginary threats so that nobody takes a second look at who the real threat to our democracy is.
That said, the religious right is not the sum total of Christianity, nor even of Christian Americans any more than the extreme wing of the Likud party is the sum total of Judaism or groups like al-Qaeda are the sum total of Islam. While I personally am an atheist, I have many friends of many different faiths who, on the whole, are quite intelligent, quite willing to question authority, and quite morally upright by even nonreligious standards of ethics. I resent people's willingness to lump them all into a pot of sheeple and backward-thinking bumpkins as strongly as if he had asserted that all atheists are sociopathic slimeballs.
Personally, I don't have much patience for God, but hey, if you believe in doing right by your fellow man, looking out for the little guy, and building a better, stronger America, then I don't particularly care why you believe in those things; you're still welcome to stand with us and I for one would be proud to have you.
I think really religion has become largely compartmental for most these days. Religion is the one area where many give a free pass to all the lunatic propositions they make without any crumby bit of evidence to support such outlandish claims. But the same person when buying a car will only consider the facts.
Anyone up for a resurrection, or how a bout old fashioned witch hunt.
i am down with jesus christ superstar more than i am with the bible. i admit it. those are good showtunes
"Personally, I don't have much patience for God,"
That's the line of the day. You're lucky that He has patience with you.
And for the record, by no logical interpretation does Christianity "say what you want it to say and mean what you want it to mean." It says what's written in the scriptures and means that you accept Christ and follow his teachings.
Anyway, as a Christian, I really appreciate your willingness to put up with me and my kind. Very gracious of you.
Except that if you take a purely literal reading of the Bible it contradicts itself more times than a lobbyist in the defendant's box. At some point you have to assemble a logically consistent set of fundamental principles around which you live your life, and a series of internal litmus tests for your actions based on those principles. If you're going to do it from something like the Bible you're going to have to pick your principles independently and then interpret what's there based on how the material relates to those principles. Depending on the kind of person you are and what you think of those around you your interpretation will vary accordingly.
Just a piece of friendly advice, veiled threats of hellfire aren't going to do much to convince me to take you seriously let alone consider converting. You choose to incorporate religion into your life; I don't. It's my personal choice to do so or not to do so, and I'm willing to bear any metaphysical consequences of that should they exist. Personally, I believe in taking responsibility for my actions and my worldview, and looking out for others outside of the possibility of an afterlife. True morality isn't externally enforced, be it by a police officer or by a deity; it's what you choose to do when nobody, not even God, is watching you that tells what kind of man you are.
"veiled threats of hellfire"
LOL, stereotype much? I'm not trying to convert you and it's certainly not my place to threaten you.
You addressed this post "To the Christians on here," so I responded. Guess you only wanted confirmation of your views. I'm sure you'll find plenty of that on this site.
As to the contradictions of the Bible, I suspect that many of what you perceive to be contradictions are pretty easily put to rest by someone who has actually studied the Bible as opposed to simply pulling verses out of context. I'm not about to get into that discussion here; maybe some day you'll find the motivation to learn a little more.
Good night and good luck...
My apologies if I misread your earlier comment; when you spoke of "accepting Christ and following His teachings" I thought you meant a purely literal interpretation of the Bible. I have no problem with studying the Bible and deriving meaning from that study, and I don't mean to discredit those who do; what I meant was that a willingness to read the Bible as more complex and more nuanced than simply the sum of the words on the page is necessary to be a rational man. I was trying to say that at some point your religious views depend on the person you are; otherwise how could Jimmy Carter and Michele Bachmann both be Christian? Again, sorry if I overreacted; I've dealt with people who truly do threaten hellfire if you disagree with them and I'm a bit touchy on the matter.
If I decided to take on the task, I would probably find some disagreement with the way both Jimmy Carter and Michele Bachmann interpret the Bible. I think "man" has imposed his will on Christianity in order to facilitate doing things the way he wants... the Bible pretty clearly says that it's not up to man to decide what's logical, but rather to follow the scriptures. It's not really all that complicated, but like most things, man has managed to make it seem complicated.
However, it's not my place to judge them, or anyone else. If they are open to my views, great. I'll share them. If not, they (and I) will stand to answer on judgement day (and I don't mean to preach... that's of course assuming you accept the basic premise that there will be such a day).
I don't really understand those who feel the need to tear down other people's faith, unless that faith is leading to some unacceptable (illegal) behavior.
Anyway, this could go on forever and is probably not the best forum for it. Enjoyed the exchange...
Religion has been around since the first civilized society. I find it hilarious that today's atheists thinks they have "evolved" passed all the atheists before them.
I'm pretty sure atheists have been around since then too, it's just that until relatively recently they couldn't freely claim the title, usually on pain of death neh? :)
I'm not an atheist, and I hate aggressively dogmatic religiousity AND aggressively dogmatic Atheism, but from what I could see this guy's not claiming to be more highly evolved than anyone, he's trying to be respectful while honestly explaining his take on religion Honestly laying out your opinions of others can seem insulting when it isn't intended that way. I don't think it's fair that when an Atheist says, "hey from my perspective some of the stuff I see in the various types of religious expression seem pretty oppressive and irrational" which is just being honest, then Christians act like he's the biggest a-hole ever, but it doesn't occur to them that calmly pointing out they firmly believe the lifestyle of people like x, y, or z are an abomination, or "I don't mean to offend but the bible DOES say that all non believers will burn in hell for eternity", they seem shocked that that might come off as kind of arrogant at the least
I think the OP would do him or herself some good by researching religions throughout history. There is also science behind the notion that we are wired for faith. Our mind strives to answer the one question no one on earth can answer for sure, "Why?"
Most faiths, especially Christianity are guides to happy and productive lives. Christianity and other religions are not the problem, nor can they be abolished. The problem lies in exploitation of religion and misunderstanding of religion. Evil and stupidity cannot be abolished either. If it bothers non believers, the only thing they can do to remedy the situation is live the best, most productive, happy, peaceful and honest life they can.
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Athesis: rotten apples in a basket, u just need to take them out and let them rot on the ground from where they came from. http://www.youtube.com/user/wnkinc#p/u/0/CV3bZ3hUqeY
Do you really want to play this game? If you want I can go down the list of some of the more fun things that were done in the name of Christ, but we'd probably be here all night if I did. It is entirely possible to be a morally upright person without religion, and you have no more right to come on here and troll me for my personal decision than I do to call you a narrow-minded hick for yours.
@ AROD exucse me, a game? when i see slander of a existence of God, The devel will come out of me onto all athesis with iron fists!. Im not your FCKN CHRISTIAN< IM THE ONE YOU SHOULD FEAR!!! Respects works both ways with me, You sorry big mouth lazy cock sucking athesis have showed me no respect! Before you Bad mouth my GOD!! ANYWHERE> I SUGGEST YOU LOOK INTO THE MIRRO AND ASK YOURSELF< WHO THE FCK YOU ARE TO QUESTION SUCH A EXISTENCE OF A God! LOL game you say? you should surly lose with me sir, by time im done with you, you would believe in a GOD, for it would be all you have left! If i was you Mr i know everything. I would start doing what A God Expetes out of YoU. lol. what will you do for this world God has given you the gift to live a life on? (nothening i bet) Enjoy the show asshole? i got nothen but loves for you ( for the record) http://www.youtube.com/user/wnkinc#p/u/3/LN4GK7_hisg
This is not for anyone elses god, or any christian god... this is only for wnkinc's god
"Fuck you god. You are a crazy bitch, god. Not Alison, god, fuck em."
LOL ha ha my god is the hemp goddess to you!! http://www.youtube.com/user/wnkinc#p/u/23/VH9Z7peGBag
Way to turn the other cheek there guy.
This is why they think a zygote is a person...it is smarter and has better manners...
I agree. Personally I believe in "God" as the Light inhabiting each one of us, but NOT in the God of conventional religion. So I feel intellectually closer to agnostics and atheists than I do to most "religious" people.
I am very critical of religion in general, as can easily be deduced from my recent post :
http://occupywallst.org/forum/a-plot-by-young-extremist-cardinals-to-occupy-vati/
I figured as much, and I rather do enjoy lampooning organized religion. The problem is that like it or not there are a lot of good honest people out there who are religious and we can't (and should't) marginalize them for it lest they abandon our common goal because we couldn't keep our mouths shut. This isn't about your earlier post, which by the way made me roar, but about a few other things I've seen on here.
Yeah. Anyway, we should never judge a man by his BELIEFS, but rather by his ACTIONS. One of the kindest, gentlest people I have ever known happened to be an atheist.
Define draconian. Your use of the word "authoritarian" describes the democrats perfectly. Forced government schools (unless you can pay for both public school taxers & private) forces Social Security, forced Medicare, Forced Obamacare coming soon. What else have the democrats forced upon us. Oh yea - affirmative action, - progressive taxes . whatever !
Your understanding of the word is incorrect in the context of its use. Please take time to read the folowing book, for free:
Bob altemyeyer's "the authoritarians" http://home.cc.umanitoba.ca/~altemey/
I'll ask again - define "draconian"
Since you are on the internet, im sure you have the same access to dictionaries as do i, thus the question is pugnacious rather than serious. To have a real discussion, you might consider posting the definition youself, then detailing your points about it.
I apologize if i did not make my own communication clear. I was refering to the word authoritarian, which is also in the title of the book.