Forum Post: To Help Small Businesses and the Community, an Idea
Posted 13 years ago on Oct. 16, 2011, 10:10 a.m. EST by justwantanaccount
(68)
from Ann Arbor Charter Township, MI
This content is user submitted and not an official statement
Hey, the small business people / entrepreneurs here - the point of getting loans from a bank / sell shares is to get the resources needed to start/expand your business, right? And the point of debts is to increase the frequency of trade, right? Why don't you just cut the middle man and ask for resources from here / from other occupiers? If you have a cool business idea that your bank spurned you for because your profit wasn't high enough, tell us what it is and if we like it, we'll support you. Who says that you need money to trade goods and services?
For example, I'd like to help this guy out, if I could:
'Like many entrepreneurs, David Griswold started his business with a big vision and a small line of credit. He wanted to help coffee growers learn sustainable farming and connect to buyers who’d pay them fairly, and he had a $300,000 business loan to make it happen. It took almost a decade, but Sustainable Harvest Coffee Importers’ sales of organic, fair-trade java hit $15 million, and orders were fast multiplying. Just as important to Griswold, the company had plowed its profits into training farmers, and his business model, based on transparency, seemed to be working.
'But in 2006, the bank pulled the plug. The complaints were rational, from a banking perspective. With margins already tight, spending money training farmers left the company with a relatively flimsy balance sheet. Sorry, they told Griswold, you’ll have to show higher profits, or find financing somewhere else. "My back was really up against a wall," Griswold said. 'I had no idea it would be this hard. I thought, I have this great business model, it’s working, someone should be willing to finance it. But that’s not how banks work."'
Plus our movement has gone global, so you can even network with people in other countries! Small businesses UNITE!
EDIT: source http://www.odemagazine.com/doc/59/a-sustainable-alternative-to-the-financial-meltdown/all
To stress why I am suggesting this idea: if you can bypass a bank, then you take power away from the banks, because their power comes from being able to collect and invest money. I say 'just trade without money to start business'! because if you get into debt first then we have our debt-based economy again and we'll crash again at some point. If you want people to lend money to you, they won't be leveraged so the trade won't happen as quickly.
THIS WOULD BE AN EFFECTIVE WAY TO FIGHT AGAINST THE BANKS, DON'T YOU SEE?! AND SAVE THE ECONOMY BY INCREASING TRADE!
EDIT2: We're a huge, GLOBAL movement with many members. Surely we can network and get some raw material producers to come on our side? If you don't take out a debt in the first place, you can make profits without having to worry about paying back the loan or even taking another loan!
EDIT3: LET'S START A LIST OF PEOPLE WE'D LIKE TO HAVE ON OUR SIDE! I'll start: Mike Biddle, for coming up with a way to recycle plastic effectively and allow used plastic to re-enter the market, and to end dangerous plastic disposal practices in third world countries http://www.ted.com/talks/mike_biddle.html
i agree! i have some money, and perhaps some of you have some money as well. we can put together our monies and raise some capital for these guys.
if we need more, perhaps we can start accepting deposits from people who are tired of patronizing wall st thieves and we can give them a little bit of interest depending on whether our loans are profitable or not.
we could also raise capital on the stock market and channel those monies to good businesses!
i know some guys who are good at budgeting and accounting and stuff perhaps they can help to figure out what businesses are worth investing in.
i also know some guys who are good at math perhaps they can help figure out how to calculate interests on the loans we're giving to businesses.
if we invest in enough businesses i think we can convince other banks that we are a stronger balance sheet and we can borrow in proxy for the social enterprises here!
"I say 'just trade without money to start business'! because if you get into debt first then we have our debt-based economy again and we'll crash again at some point. If you want people to lend money to you, they won't be leveraged so the trade won't happen as quickly."
I think that the key to a good economy requires fast trade - fast flow of goods - and historically, we've accomplished this by going into debt to increase the flow of goods. But by going into debt in the first place, you've trapped yourself to your creditor. And banks kept leveraging, because they wanted trade to happen quickly - but the problem was that it created more debt, and eventually you face bankruptcy because you can't pay it back. But, if you don't leverage at all, then you have the problem of trade happening too slowly.
Don't worry about borrowing or lending money - if you're starting a business, just start it! This isn't the 16th century, when people couldn't communicate en masse to trade goods. If you want to trade, just do so! Don't get into debt to do it!
How do you get people to simply trade without money, you ask? By using social acceptance as currency. What do I mean? Do you have a facebook page? Have you experienced the 'like' button? It makes you feel good, doesn't it? So good that it makes you want to keep doing what ever it is that got you that 'like' button in the first place?
My thought is this: Get an Internet forum where entrepreneurs can present their business idea - and this forum is open to everybody - entrepreneurs, environmentalists, you name them. People who care will pay attention to it.
The entrepreneur will explain IN PLAIN LANGUAGE (everybody should understand what you want to do!) what their business idea is, and the community will comment on that idea. The comments will come with a ratings system - the comment will have an 'informative' button on it, that people will click if the comment raises valid issues with the business idea - if it's unsustainable, if it's bad for the environment, takes advantage of cheap labor, etc. But, if all the comments are good and the audience - INCLUDING OTHER ENTREPRENEURS/PROVIDERS OF RAW MATERIAL - like the idea, the idea will get upvoted. The more community support it has, the more likely that the idea will be able to access resources provided by the community.
Then start up the business, post updates on how it's going, get community feed back (lots of 'like' buttons to motivate you, I hope), and once the product is finished start selling it - AND YOU (hopefully) DIDN'T HAVE TO BURROW A CENT TO GET THAT BUSINESS STARTED.
In fact, I'm basing this on the structure of reddit forums, ha ha. YOU CAN START DOING THIS NOW! http://www.reddit.com/r/entrepreneurs
. . . Or you can tell me that my idea is crazy, I dunno. I do want an environment where being good to the community is rewarded rather than punished.
I love this idea. Thank you for the information. I do believe in starting small and growing with as much feedback as possible. This is the hallmark of sustainability.
You think so? Thank you!
Thank you for voicing this. I am an entrepreneur, a small business owner and a serious supporter of the Occupy Movement.
If anyone else knows of resources where small business investors and entrepreneurs can connect please post.
There eventually comes a time when funds are needed to grow a business, especially at start up. I really wish there was a place that I could access potential investors who also want to cut our the middle man as I do. Corporate investments do not have to be corrupt. Corporations can exist for honorable purposes too. Like creating jobs with great benefits for your local community (and friends and family) while protecting the environment and creating awareness.
Not every entrepreneur works to "get rich". Some of us would simply like to live sustainably while providing for our family.
I'm glad to hear! I do support small businesses, they seem to have much more moral integrity and produce actual goods!
Banks should never invest in long-term growth associated with small business. This is part of the problem. And small businesses should try to find customers first--loans second--if necessary. Boot-strapping (unless the company is developing on expensive R&D) is the best route for entrepreneurs.
Coffee, bananas, sugar, corn, and other similar commodities are pretty tough to discuss in a forum like this though--they carry their own amazing geo-political baggage beyond just "fair trade" too. Admirable for David with a vision, but not always the way to "save the world" or OWS.
Can we get some people to support OWS who would supply us some raw material?
I like Mike Biddle, does anyone know him? http://www.ted.com/talks/mike_biddle.html
Or can anyone suggest people to recruit into OWS? ALSO WE NEED TO COORDINATE WITH THE OTHER COUNTRIES ON THIS!
Hard question too. You are talking about "leadership" in a movement that is priding itself on not having leadership--other than a feeling of consensus that everyone on this site seems to be weighing and measuring through comments and suggestions. It's an interesting process. I think we are coordinating a little across countries. I am Swedish ;-) and many of us from around the world know a lot about economic systems and practices in other countries. I lived in the US for 35 years...
What I think people need to do is to use their energy and time to coordinate specific action.
Every OWS participant, for instance, that has a bank account in a specific bank that is known to be problematic internationally (plenty of the big ones), should plan, together, how to CAREFULLY dismantle the bank with as little harm to the customers--AND without permitting government bail out. At the same time, people can and should move their money to SMALL, reputable, ethical banks that have never lent toxic loans, dealt in subprimes, provided multiple mortgages, etc, etc. We can SINGLEHANDEDLY re-build the banking system. WE are the customers.
That's the spirit! :'D
Dude, is there are OccupyStockholm or something similar? If so, do they have a forum? YOU NEED TO SPREAD THIS IDEA RIGHT NOW.
If someone could tell me the forum to OccupyTokyo, I can go there and spread the idea - I grew up in Japan, so I can speak pretty fluent Japanese, though it's kinda awkward.
Stockholm area has a handful of participants on here it seems--at least those who are admitting where they're from. I think it is important for each group to have really good and ethical economists/philosophers and even bankers in the group to predict a few scenarios for any "dismantling". Today, the banks have "our" money invested in thousands of funds and programs--many of which are also "suffering". SEB in Sweden announced lay-offs of 2500 employees just last week. I don't know the time frame for this, but I suspect that those employees have a few ideas of how to handle SEB for instance. If the banks were smart, they might start whitling down their services and "packages" and get back to local basics.
Heck, I'd like to see a dismantling of currency exchange and electric commodity exchange also (both initiated in the 90s and definitely contributors to a lot of global pain).
Oh, you know more about this than me. Care to explain to us lesser mortals and tell others why we need to address this issue?
I am not an expert either, but have lived long enough and read enough, and lived in enough countries to get the big picture. Bottom line, some people seek ways to make money first and worry about quality of life for others second. Lots of people like to gamble too--and lots of people like to take advantage of those who like to gamble by creating products for this group---from fantasy football, to horseracing, to stock and commodity trading, to trading money, or even trading carbon offsets for those who think they are helping "green up" the world a bit. Sad to say, those behind most of these schemes are out for the money on the backs of weaker humans. Even credit cards work this way. How many people do you know who pay their full debt every month? I do, but I am considered a lousy customer for the credit card company. If everyone were like me, they'd not make any money.
We also need to get experts involved in this, then.
. . . Actually they're already involved, aren't they? We have to get them onto these forums! And someone buy a bigger server for this website!