Forum Post: Thoughts on the 'get a job' argument...
Posted 13 years ago on Oct. 24, 2011, 8:15 a.m. EST by RedPanther
(11)
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Ok, so I've been watching you guys in enlightened disbelief from the other side of the pond in the UK and noticed that a lot of the people who don't support you think you should 'get a job'.
Let's look a little closer at the concept of a 'job'. A job is considered to be an amount of work that we do which contributes to society.
If we look a little closer at what 'jobs' have become, how many of them really reflect that?
How many 'jobs' out there would you actually consider to be detrimental to society. Jobs where you feel that you are a tiny cog in a machine that is slowly destroying the earth and the people in it for so that people who are already wealthy can become more so.
Just challenging the concept that's all. If I had the choice of either working for a company that was slowly crippling the economy and damaging the environment and possibly exploiting workers overseas. Or not being officially employed and taking part in a revolutionary debate/conversation/community that genuinely wants to build a better way and is inspiring the world, I know which choice I'd class as more of a 'contribution', and therefore an incredibly valuable 'job'.
Don't let the people who don't believe in you get you down.
My thoughts are in our priorities as a society. Where we put our emphasis on high paying jobs vs. the jobs that really matter for keeping the world going in a healthy way. We pay hairdressers more than we pay our teachers. And farmers are so underpaid that the government has to subsidize them, and most of them go under and are replaced by factory farms, which is terrible for our living conditions in so many ways.
If a noble person wants to go into debt for college to become a social worker, why should they be put down for being "irresponsible" and going into a field that doesn't pay what it costs. There is so much that needs to change and we are suffocated from the responsibilities that this crazy world puts on us, to just stay afloat, that it's hard to stay focused on changing what really matters.
yes, right now it's better to be jobless and working for a better world than using all your energy just to stay afloat in your low paying job that is useless to humanity.
here here! this is a significant part of the paradigm shift that needs to occur. Why do people pay hair dressers more than teachers? Its works both ways too. I totally agree that there needs to be a revision of what our priorities are from the ground up. I have this argument with my dear friends who are on public assistance. They need food stamps because they "can't afford food" but they have luxury phones and HD TV. Stuff like that needs to change too.
Part of the problem is the society's expectation that we have a phone, electricity, and other amenities that, really, we could easily go without. To get decent phone service you have to pay 50 to 100 a month. Electric can easily run that high. And much of society expects that you have at least one tv and computer in your home. 200 years ago, all you needed was a dry place to sleep, food, clean water, and heat in the winter.
i totally agree (and just clicked on the point thingy). but that's why i am for trying to spread a message of societal change overall, in addition to or not limited to focusing on the "1%". I'm not trying to vilify people who think they cannot live with out said amenities, but we also have to be honest about how we all empower the "1%" in these subtle ways too.
Here is the fix for the arguement: "If you are unhappy with your minimum wage job why don't you go to school and get a degree?" A: "If I had a magic wand and could make everyone in this country between 18 and 65 have Masters Degree in any viable field would that make all the jobs at Wal Mart or Pizza Hut raise their pay to $60,000 a year to start? Nope, all of those stupid, low-paying jobs would still be there."
Raising the minimum wage would help some. I would rather pay $3.00 for a $2.00 cheeseburger than pay for a food stamp program. The incentive to work should always be more than the incentive NOT to work.
I like your viewpoint there. Check out these links when you get the chance.
http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/wired-success/201109/are-jobs-we-know-them-becoming-obsolete
http://www.cnn.com/2011/OPINION/09/07/rushkoff.jobs.obsolete/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W0Z8TR4ToNs
I have a job. I work 8 and 12 hour days and have for 20 years to save the humans. me not getting paid for that work is irrelevant. I don't work inside of the material universe which matters to them. They don't work inside of the spiritual and ethical universe which matters to me. Ultimately, they are the ones who are lazy - lazy minded.
if i didn't do this work its probable that all of humanity would die. Seems to me that the right and propper thing is for me to do my work. I have a job. My time is worth in theory thousands of dollars per hour as a genuine article polymath. I give my time to humanity freely because thats my mission. My karma account keeps growing and inside of that, I'd rather be a karma millionaire than a money millionaire. All of these people who say "get a job" are karmically bankrupt. They say that precisely because they resent others not being as trapped in the rat race as they are.
http://occupythiswiki.org/wiki/Main_Page
http://www.followthemoney.org/?gclid=CMbY87bB-qsCFUPt7Qod9HE8mQ
http://maplight.org/us-congress/guide/data/money?9gtype=search&9gkw=list%20of%20campaign%20donations&9gad=6213192521.1&9gag=1786513361&gclid=CP61oYbB-qsCFQFZ7AodcTF0jw
http://www.opensecrets.org/
http://occupywallst.org/forum/non-violence-evolution-by-paradigm-shift/
I'm guilty of saying that - to the television, on this site, even in person - to protesters.
But I guess what I'm really saying, is go do it, and stop pissing on my street.
I've had jobs I like and jobs I don't like. When I don't feel "fulfilled", I'll volunteer my time, or go back to school part time, or study for professional certifications... That's what's great about this city, you don't have to go far to do these things.
More importantly, I find employers value these things, and poof! I make more money!
Point is, you can vote for change, you can talk to people about change (I'm typing to a guy in the UK right now...), and you can even participate in local government discussions for change.
I say "get a job", and you're right, I'm wrong, bad thing to say. What I mean is, go do something that contributes to someone, somewhere... just get off my street so I don't have to smell your defecation.
Read my post above.. It's not your street
then get off your street, you're embarrassing yourself.
It's not my street
Think Big. It's free.
Lets face it - no one wants a job, they simply want the pay packet that accompanies it. If you ask them, folks who enjoy what they do don't consider it work or a job. A job is a simple trade of your time and trouble for money. If you value money more than your time and trouble - you are ahead. If not, you are destined to a morbid life of slavery...and then you die.
So...don't work. A "job" is a soul crushing waste of a human talent. Do something you like and enjoy, "work" minimally where needs be, and in the end you will be much happier and fulfilled. Now, you might possibly be poor relative to the rest in terms of pointless consumer crap, but you will be rich in experience, and your love and joy at what you do will make a far greater contribution to the future than 50 years inside a cubicle.
One modern affliction that needs breaking badly is this idea that we work, consume, and work some more all in the name of some mythical protestant work ethic. Bah! Where is it written that must be so? Which law of nature demands a lifetime of pointless toil for a gold watch at the end and a trailer in St. Petersburg? Them days is gone forever regardless. Gone. Never coming back. Ever.
Isn't it time to think big and courageous about some of the fundamental underpinning of our quickly failing societies? Think about it...will there be a better time than this? What harm can come with opening the lid on every Pandora's box right now?..hehehe. Maybe lots of harm to some, to the vested interests and defenders of the status quo. But maybe less harm to everyone else. Who knows? For the time being, thinking big is free and unfettered...why not use it?
87% of protester polled were employed another 9 percent full time in college. Hmm get a job..... More like you need to get a real arguement
I agree
The people who say " get a job" should go find another job as an experiment to see how easy it is. And only use education and college experience on college degree. See how easy it is I have many nieces and nephews with college degrees working at 7/11 and mcdonalds because of lack of employment opportunities.
More accurately, the people who say get a job should work at McDonald as a cashier or Wal-mart as an overnight stocker or any other job that pays you minimum wage or damn close to it with no benefits and expects you to show up when you are sick or you're fired. See how well they live then.
Damn right. I remember working as an OLAN MILLS photographer after I got layed off from teaching. They couldn't replace me when I was sick. I barfed all day while taking family portraits not a fun day and they got a bunch of nasty letters from customers .brilliant move on there part
No use occupying wall street. Deal with the real problem. Problem of foreigners getting jobs with fake resumes (IT), illegal immigrants, temp student workers (Hershey was only a tip of the ice berg), outsourced manufacturing to China, substandard goods dumped in US by superstores like Walmart, Target, Staples etc. Take some practical steps. Ask the Federal government to investigate into these crimes. Move the courts to charge the criminals. I have taken several personal risks through whistle blowing. But the response has been only a deaf ear of the authorities.
'A job is considered to be an amount of work that we do which contributes to society.'
If that is how you see a job, or your job, then that is what is keeping you down.
A job is something you do in order to maintain your existence, freely and in the occupation you choose.
You work to provide something someone else wants or needs, and is willing to pay you for. that's all. then you are free to do with those proceeds what you want.
That's capitalism. A society based on free choice.
But the system you describe is clearly not a sustainable one. The is why we are seeing a repeat of what happened in the '30s. An economy that is based around profit and self interest instead of around resources and priorities of what really needs to be done in order for our species to maintain a healthy existence is not going to function for a long time.
Central organisation of the nation's resources is communism.
What happened in the 30's happened because the government bought federal bonds in to enable banks to lend money they didn't have.
what happened in 2008 happened because the government supported supported banks by again, issuing credit to support a system that was fundamentally fraudulent.
Same thing.
It's not more regulation that's needed, it's the removal of government intervention and regulation.
Free the market, properly.
I said nothing about regulation, just an overall societal consciousness of the world's needs.
So, you're just going to tell people what to think then?
I used to own my own business building decks. I made good money at it, and even had plans to open a decking retail store along with it up until the crisis came in 2008. By 2009 a combination of clients unable to pay, a dried up market, and a poorly timed decision to use credit to grow my business all coincided to bankrupt me and we lost everything we had, even selling our house to pay off the debts that the bankruptcy didn't cover.
Today, I work in the warehouse 8 hours a day, commute another 1 hour a day, and spend an additional 1 hour a day of "personal time" (breaks from work) at work. I am in essence devoting 10 hours a day to my job. It pays me a net income of 1000 per month... and this is because I have a "great tax status", what with being married with two children.
Because this income is clearly insufficient I also work a side job on the weekend. All told I bring in 1,500 per month. This is enough to pay our rent (540) our vehicle expenses (150) our grocery bill (strictly food items, 400) our power and utilities (75) and a couple hundred extra per month to accomodate incidental expenses, or maybe allow the wife and I a date night now and then. We have no credit card debt, in fact no debt to speak of at all. Nonetheless, we are surviving. Financially we would be better off if my wife were to go get a job and turn the kids over to daycare... but I cannot in good conscience turn my kids over to strangers to be raised.
The warehouse where I work at is a shipping center for a multinational corporation that specializes in fishing gear. Last week I watched in disbelief as they ordered in a large trash crusher and proceeded to dump pallet after pallet of perfectly good, functional wares into the crusher and destroy it. I did a conservative estimate and figured they tossed out at LEAST 250,000 dollars worth of goods (probably closer to 350k), simply because they had removed them from the 2012 catalogue and would no longer be selling them. They can afford to toss out a quarter million worth of goods and yet they cannot afford to give me an income that will provide me with fair compensation for the hours of my life that I sacrifice in a thankless job, in order to provide for my family.
THAT is capitalism. A society based on long term sacrifice for short term gain. A society based not just what the market will bear, but what the backs of the labor force will bear, and what injustices they will bear before they finally say enough is enough.
every one in this warehouse is surviving. Nobody sees any way out. Nobody likes their job. We are here because we don't see any other choice. That is slavery... in any case it is NOT a society based on a free choice.
I have my own business as well. Brickpaving and constructing Limestone walls. I had a good deal of trouble during 2008 also. The market has never been the same since either.
The waste you speak of is not capitalism. It's just waste. Bad decisions are made by people, put the blame at their feet. Bad decisions are not made by capitalism.
Me owning my own business and you owning yours, that is capitalism.
I can't speak for your situation or your employer, but where would you be without the employment of that business concern? Relying on the government?
Funny thing is, the majority of people, the 67% of Americans that support this movement, have jobs. Those in opposition just like to hurl insults. When they say, "get a job" they show their poor understanding of the unemployment rate which hovers at 9.1% meaning that for every 100 workers seeking work there are only 91 jobs.
You are actually incorrect. The unemployment rate does not take into account anyone looking for a job that wasn't eligible for and drawing unemployment. This would include high school and college grads. It also does not take into account anyone who's unemployment benefits have expired. The unemployment rate is much higher then reported.
This being said I'm sick and tired of reading a lot of this communistic crap about resource based economies and blah blah blah. Our system is a great one it is simply time for a housecleaning and bringing things back to where they belong.
Oust the career politicians and get corporations and special interest groups out of the government.
True. True. Like stay-at-home mothers who want to re-enter the workforce and many other groups.
Yes another group not included in the statistics. It's amazing how the government spins the numbers and makes it sound like so many people have found jobs since the "unemployment rate" has declined when really they are simply no longer eligible for benefits and now on their own or took jobs working for a fraction of their former incomes.
I'd hate to hear the real number of unemployed.
Coming up with ways to combat this and other one liners people keep using at this stage are probably more important than the 'demands' everyone keeps asking for.
(just a thought). by one liners, do you mean, "we are the 99%", "down with greed", "down with wall street", "occupy everywhere"... do these count?
Not trying to be argumentative. I'm actually agreeing with you - one liners not codified to a succinct point can get old...
No, down with greed doesn't count. It's saying something. Get a Job is an assumption and a bad one. It serves to discredit and disqualify at the same time in an unjustified manner. Not many people can stand up in a room and say up with greed.
Ha, people really need to start getting over that. They're running out of ideas and that one still holds water for some people so they just keep askin' :-). The mainstream media can be hilarious sometimes. Saying that, in the UK the papers are giving pretty good coverage. The Guardian especially.
Maybe the people on Wall st. that trade pieces of worthless paper day and nite should go get a job.