Forum Post: This site has become too ugly.
Posted 12 years ago on Nov. 24, 2011, 6:21 a.m. EST by toomuchmisunderstanding
(17)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement
Rather than a forum for ideas and REAL debate, this site has become a dumping ground for everyone's anger and vilification. I come here to read news and legitimate points of view. That's no longer possible, so I will no longer waste my time. We are a sad people. I yearn for positive change for everyone, but it won't happen like this. May the love we have for ourselves, each other, and our country rise above the level of this forum, (despite it), and forge a better life for all members of the 99%.
It has become a breeding ground for trolls, but don't let it hamper your efforts to make genuine change. Keep fighting the good fight.
I think all the brain dead idiots who were in the many partisan forums a week ago complaining about how OWS didnt even have a web presence finally discovered google. They sound pretty damned angry and absolutely hate this place but they won't leave, LMAO
Any ways I thought this was a pretty good thread, http://occupywallst.org/forum/beware-of-projecting-a-message-of-anti-capitalism/
And there are several more, you just have to dig through a lot of pointless hateful sht to find them, take care.
Read Proposition 13 and let's make real change.
do not let confusion set in. speak to us that do want to hold a debate and brain meld new ideas, i do read more than i post, i bet your post are read and thought about more than you think
I can offer you something. Instantaneous results do not promise, but at least as anti-trolling.
“May the love we have for ourselves, each other, and our country rise above the level of this forum “. Is quitting synonymous with rising above?
It is frustrating at times but it comes with the job. "Like a rare and precious metal beneath a ton of rock, it takes some time and trouble to separate from the stock"
What do you think of the 99% Declaration? https://sites.google.com/site/the99percentdeclaration/
I like the plan to have a National GA including the protectorates. As for the 'demands' some are good and others are a bit out there with little or no hope of any type of resolution even among OWS participants.
Their concept may be a bit cumbersome but over all, it's not bad.
There is a debate as to whether this suggested List of 21 items is one of grievances or one of demands. I dunno. What I do know is that you have to exercise the 1st Amendment right to petition the government.
" It is expected that between the election in March 2012 and the meeting in July 2012, that most of the petition will be hammered out and written by the delegates who will meet online through our webpage and conference calling. "
http://occupywallst.org/forum/update-on-the-99-declaration-and-the-national-gene/
At one end of the spectrum you've got:
[-] theghostofthomasjefferson 3 points 1 week ago No, I wrote the Declaration of Desperation. I believe the 99% Declaration is an ineffective document. The Occupy Movement will fail if it is adopted. For it will alienate the American People. This is not a question of politics, of right or wrong. This is a question of intelligence. We must be smart. We enjoy popular support, for now. But to preserve America's good will, we must keep our demands narrow: end the corrupting influence of money in politics. That is something a majority of Americans can get behind. That is something a social movement can achieve. And then, and only then, can the other issues be successfully pursued.
And at the other end:
[-] gawdoftruth (Santa Barbara, CA) 1 points 1 day ago simply put, hes dead wrong. each issue is an issue which can rope in another percen tof the population, and how we achieve a coalition which is a numeric majority is going after EVERY issue and giving each issue a treatment which is evolutionary. I think people fail to imagine what evolutionary new solutions will look like or how that will defeat both "left" and "right" inside the box thinking. Marketing 101 demands of us that we get VERY detailed, but use state of the art diplomacy and consensus tools in order to iron out the REAL issues that the 99 percent have, rather than allow the oligarchs to keep divide and conquering us. What everyone argues for in essence is that the 99 percent is too stupid to actually create a detailed evolutionary political platform. I find that insulting, and see it as a serious failure of imagination. http://occupythiswiki.org/wiki/Main_Page
Is there a middle ground we need to find???
There is always a middle ground and of course even in middle ground you'll find pros and cons, but not such wide variances between them.
I think that establishing a voice, a 'single voice' by addressing 3-5 issues with a reserve for other issues for future dates is a reasonable way to present.
It seems everyone can agree on getting the 'big money' out of government.
A large percentage can agree that the banks need to be held responsible for their actions and constraints placed upon them so they can not simply continue in the same manner.
Of course the jobs issue. It does no good to educate or train if the jobs are not going to be available for future employees.
Those I, personally see, as issues that need addressing, two more would make five which is a reasonable number to begin.
Once these items have been addressed then the way is open for future grievances to be presented.
Let's hope for 'cooler heads' to prevail.
I like your thinking! A small # of items to start which can be easily and unequivocally verified as mission accomplished, but enough to avoid being thrown a bone or two so that we grow complacent and they go back to business as usual. And then, as ghost says, pursue other issues that gawd's wiki has studied six ways from sunday. Are you gonna run??? Cheers : )
Negotiation...such a good word, such a good concept...single voice, a better term, unified voice...
Meantime, let's see what the real GA, when it comes together comes up with. Perhaps there lie the cooler heads.
In my humble opinion,
I think it is quite arrogant to insinuate that you speak for the 99%.
Even if 600,000 people agree with you that is only 0.18% of the US.
From what i've seen of your previous comments, you have lots of good things to say about the movement. Sadly your reply here illustrates precisely the problem that was being raised in this topic.
One of my very first posts here:
I'm a farmer. I know a good machine from a crappy one (read Egypt). But a good machine in the hands of a lousy operator leads to damaged equipment and loss of crop leading to debts and hunger. We're coming out with better machines all the time but keeping the machine I have running productively means I can acquire a state-of-the-art machine sooner. So let's fix the machine we have (the ballot box is your tool box) while we discuss the new machine.
So,JoeTheFarmer, you think i'm arrogant and you can throw numbers around. What do you think of the 99% Declaration?
Bravo. I agree wholeheartedly.
Wishing you all the best, from Australia.
Oh, and did you have a look at theMultitude.org ??
Just saying, is all.
The forum is a reflection of the 'movement'.
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