Forum Post: This site blocks dissent
Posted 12 years ago on Jan. 29, 2012, 11:12 p.m. EST by neizuc
(52)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement
If you post with criticism you get banned. Is that what democracy looks like?
i made link from one 1 post to 2 one to show that is hidden activity going on. and after some time entire comment was wiped off, not only mine =)
same shit happen to me today. i didnt even criticize no one. i just post videos. but such behavior is prohibited. and soon this post will be gone to nonexistence
It depends on the nature of the criticism. If it is criticism based on fundamental support of the movement, that is one thing. If it is criticism that is clearly based on fundamental hostility to the movement that is quite another. For example, I am have been a part time occupier from day one. I am also in complete support of the Declaration of the Occupation of New York City. That said, I do have some criticisms of the decision making processes in OWS and sometimes of some of the tactics used from time to time.
That, it strikes me, is quite different from people who come on to this forum and are basically hostile to OWS, to the occupations, to the unemployed, to labor unions, etc.
Hmmm. I have never seen this site block "dissent".
well duh, personal attacks on people for trying to contribute to improve things in society, is itiotocracy at best. Try a more civil approach, as in debate the pros or cons of peoples viewpoints. I.E. if they are wrong in your opinon explain why, you dont have to insult people, that escalates to violence eventually if we were all to do it that way.
What I posted was not personal attacks - I did not insult anyone. I criticized certain events I personally saw transpire.
Idk, maybe you just need to offer as much good as bad. All bitching isn't productive either.
Its not bitching I was posting - it was criticisms of specific tactics.
complaint, criticism, bitching, it's all the same. We all do it. I was just suggesting to offer equal doses to offset any discontentment you may build in others. It's a social tactic.
Right - when you post positive stuff they kept it. When you post negative internal criticism they silence it. It creates a false public perception that everyone is happy with how these events are going - which I find disturbing and indicates to me that they are not open to feedback on this forum.
In my case I complained about aspects of Oakland and New Years in Zuccotti and they were quickly wiped.
Of course its a social tactic - its one used by corporations and the NYPD everyday - I just expected a bit better here.
In your haste you lump the outside world into one ball of humanity you alone are up against. Who exactly are you posting to? Who is "Them"? like exchanging a few good word with me means jack shit to the forum or it's owner(s). That says you either have issues or you come at this from a predetermined defensive posture. Why would that be?
Thanks for launching into personal attacks so quickly.
I wrote this because I have witnessed events I was not happy with. You are assuming I have not taken this up with anyone else - I have.
I am not lumping the world together - by, I don't know, lumping 99% of the population into one group. I have specific criticisms with recent OWS tactics - I am not alone, read GA minutes. What you see on TV or on this blog is not the same as what you see in person recently.
not an attack, just an observation. You have Occupy participants pointing out the imperfections in the system and the system pointing out imperfections about occupy. sounds like the same old shit to me.
Pretty much...
Grasshopper ... excellent observation, now make the next logical assertion that OWS (NYC-GA) is ran by the NYPD.
This thread exists, but like other than have over 10 likes it simply doesn't appear, the way they play the game, is they let the thread live, but make it invisible.
The insiders here, simply pick and choose that what they like and dislike and anything hostile or real about OWS is sent to the invisible bucket.
When you hear an orchestra look for a conductor, ... when you see the OWS doing the same shit as the FBI or cop-shop, .. think cop.
Let me get this straight. Right wing trolls dominate this site, and somebody's complaining?
I've never seen so many right wing trolls be tolerated to this extent at ANY site I've ever read or posted to.
The right wing trolls are fine - its when someone posts a criticism or internal disagreement to one of the front page stories that they block it.
I assume they do this so that, when the media or public looks at one of the stories on this site they see universal agreement from OWS followers. The right wing trolls only help that perception - what they block is when someone on the left criticizes them. They are trying to control their message and make it seems like there is no internal dissent or disagreement.
Dissent from OWS? Like in what manner? Made up stuff or real issues?
Real stuff - what they remove is any criticism of a real event by someone who was a previous supporter or who was there. Not everyone agrees with how the Oakland rally went down, but if you post a criticism as a comment to one of their public stories you'll get banned. If you a a right winger they let it stay - but if you are on the left and disagree with OWS in a public story they'll ban you.
no
if you post copyright material, your website may be banned
I'm not posting copyrighted material - I just criticized certain aspects of the Oakland rally in their article on that topic. My comments and several others got wiped.
Neizuc, your post might have some semblance of CREDIBILITY if you would include EVIDENCE to back up your claims... or is that too much to ask? :)
I posted below what happened to me and several others posted the same experience.
Again:
If you post something that criticizes OWS on one of the front stories they will prevent other posters from seeing it. They way you find out if you have been blocked is that when you log out you can no longer see what you posted. Several people have reported the same experience: that is my evidence.
In my case I criticized some of the tactics in the Oakland rally. Two mints later, when I logged out, I could not longer see what I had posted, nor any of the other posts by the five or so posters who had negative things to say just after they posted the story.
Give us the threads, the comments in quotation marks. Do you understand? You cannot make accusations and expect to be taken seriously unless you provide the EVIDENCE to back up your claims.
If you fail to do that, you risk being called a troll.
true
No, it's what the totalitarian left looks like.
this thread would not exist if that were so
I have not seen the censorship mentioned
Not true - its only when you post a criticism to one of the stories on the front page. They are managing what those criticisms look like, presumably because outsiders read those. If you create a thread they let it go - probably because the public and media don't go to the forums.
I've had posts on the front page that I could only see when I was logged in. Otherwise they were invisible. I've also had comments (and sub-discussions) disappear in the forums.
Thanks for the post, we have to keep them honest.
This is what I am referring to. If you can only see them when you are logged in you are blocked and the public or media cannot see them. Its what happened to me.
They are managing the comments section on public stories and wiping comments so if the public looks here it appears that everyone agrees with what they are doing. Its a tactic a corporation would use on a board to make it looks like everyone likes their product. I'd guess that they are also posting supportive posts - its the flip side of this sort of tactic.
Exactly. These tactics expose the character of whoever is behind this site.
They don't want us to leave however, so we need to draw the line for them occasionally. If they don't back off from these immature games, we have other options.
Adbusters has a lot invested in this operation, and they have the delusion that they're in control, but they want to control the debate by their CONSENSUS.
At GA's they can shut you down by putting you at the end of the line,
Here in forum if your not part of OWS party-line then your posts and comments are made invisible to all others than yourself. It's just how they play their game.
readers often scroll to the bottom
after reading some comment at the top
and scanning the middle
Bots will be bots, thank god that the OWS can feed their lonely bots.
OWS is a classic example of why technology and technologists will and never can be part of a real revolution.
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I criticize (R)epelicans all the time, no problem.
Of course that's like fish in a barrel.
Maybe you don't hang your face right?
Yes, this is their version of what democracy looks like. Except it's anything BUT democratic.
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Well, if you think this is bad, try Craigslist, Community, Politics. There the RW troll-bots censor and control the board completely. Coast to coast!
Unite and Win! Unite and Win! 2010 Never EVER Again!!
I just would have expected better from this board - my mistake...
No really, this one is great!! Because instead of censoring (removing) your posts, RW Trolls are forced to say their piece. It's awesome!! You can't make the fucking crazy shit they say up!! And I think they even believe it. This is great!!
Unite and Win! Unite and Win! 2010 Never EVER Again!!
"You can't make the fucking crazy shit they say up!!"
Really,got some examples?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ege_RBhh37A&feature=player_embedded#! "Vote Republican" by Roy Zimmerman www.youtube.com words and music by Roy Zimmerman and Melanie Harby Please like me on Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/pages/Roy-Zimmerman/39171898761 Follow me on Twitter: ...
Give me a summation,I don't have time for bullshit Leftist video.
Orders? You have me confused with one of your kind. Yes you do have time.
You have no idea what is being censored because it doesn't show up when it happens.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ege_RBhh37A&feature=player_embedded#! "Vote Republican" by Roy Zimmerman www.youtube.com words and music by Roy Zimmerman and Melanie Harby Please like me on Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/pages/Roy-Zimmerman/39171898761
I agree. This site does, in fact, block dissent. Because the people who run this site do not approve of "R-o-n P-a-u-l", they chose to censor his name, changing all instances of it to "Ron Lawl". They are actively participating in an act that is contrary to Freedom of Speech. They should be deeply embarrassed for making such a hypocritical move.
How many times must you be told?
Mr. P is a fraud.
His whole career as a politician is a fraud.
It was dealt with months ago.
It's not censorship, you're just incredibly late to the party.
if the man weren't on the republican ticket,
he might be given more consideration
He's on that ticket, because he is a (R)epelican't.
Just as crazy as the rest of them.
He just uses prettier wording.
I considered and voted for him once, but never again.
You might be right, in terms of how other people view it.
However, for me, I do not pay attention to the party affiliation. I listen to what the individual is actually advocating for on a policy level. I then also like to look at their voting record to see if what they say matches up with how they have acted in the past. And last, but certainly the most important, I look for someone who demonstrates a real knowledge of, and who declares their promise to... protect, preserve and defend the Constitution of the United States.
I'm more concerned with the people
Let's just say for a second that you are correct, and that as you say, "Mr. P is a fraud". Are you not happy that you are allowed to say it?
No, I'm not.
I'm sad that anyone at all would consider such a fraud as legitimate.
But then, the (R)epelican't party has become the party of fraud.
So I guess it figures.
I'm a bit confused.
I asked: "Are you not happy that you are allowed to say it?"
And you said: "No, I'm not".
So you are not happy. You are not happy to be allowed to speak your opinion.
I'm not happy that I have to say it.
I'm not happy that our political process is so fraught with fraudulent representatives.
The worst of which are the (R)epelican'ts.
They are extraordinary in their lies.
You say: "our political process is so fraught with fraudulent representatives".
Do you think our representatives are ALL, one hundred percent of them, fraudulent?
Mostly it's (R)epelican'ts.
I thought that was evident, in my wording.
You thought what was evident?
I asked a very specific question.
In that case, the simplest answer I can give you is........no.
Could you please explain the dichotomy in the initial, statement and question, that you started this thread with?
IE: What is the relationship you are trying to get at?
My original post was/is in direct response to the overall posting's title of: "This site blocks dissent"
I then said: "I agree. This site does, in fact, block dissent. Because the people who run this site do not approve of "R-o-n P-a-u-l", they chose to censor his name, changing all instances of it to "Ron Lawl". They are actively participating in an act that is contrary to Freedom of Speech. They should be deeply embarrassed for making such a hypocritical move.
So to be clear, yes, I do agree, this site blocks dissent. I then gave an example to support my statement.
He's a (R)epelican't, there's lots of talk about them.
A bit of history, if I can.
In the early days of this forum, the site was inundated with posting from the RP campaign.
I would log on to the forum and every thread had his name in it.
I think they took exception to rabid attempts at co-option, and made the campaign pay the price.
It was after all a "choice" to come here and do that, so it's actually in keeping with his "philosophy".
Even that didn't stop the campaign, so over the months that ensued, Mr. P. was revealed to be a fraud, in multiple threads.
In the end, it's not really a problem, as everyone knows Mr. P, by many iterations of his moniker.
So you see?
The site has not blocked dissent.
They merely enforced the rules on blatant campaigning.
Funny thing is... and sure, this is just my opinion, but the more people try to squelch the truth, the more they do to promote it. Therefore, I should almost be saying "Thank You" to OWS for inadvertantly raising awareness of RonPaul, by actively trying to shut him down.
It's sort of like a banned book. I might feel more desire to read a banned book because it's like: "damn, what is the government trying to hide??"
Did you completely miss what I said about the level of RP posts?
I'd feel sorry for him, but it was his campaigns "choice" to do that.
The attack was blatant.
What you see of the others are NOT campaign posts.
Go ahead and start a post on him, you'll get responses.
You may not like them though.
// Did you completely miss what I said about the level of RP posts? //
// I'd feel sorry for him, but it was his campaigns "choice" to do that. //
// The attack was blatant. //
// What you see of the others are NOT campaign posts. //
// Go ahead and start a post on him, you'll get responses. //
// You may not like them though. //
He's not shut down.
You're talking about him now.
Did you read anything I posted?
Sorry, I guess you are correct, they did not "shut him down". In making my point maybe I should have quoted you:
"made the campaign pay the price"
I wonder: Where all of the Obama campaigners? Where are those for Romney? Gingrich?
Maybe if enough of their supporters get on here, exercising their freedom of speech, we might start seeing their names forcibly re-spelled as:
Might be fun, eh?
You are entitled to think that way. But for me, I am happy when allowed to speak my opinion. I embrace Freedom of Speech. It is the 1st Amendment in our Constitution, after all.
Yes, this is what an Orwellian government looks like.
You either praise the Canadian adbuster Hungarian self-made king and send him your money, or you be damned to hell.
I have already seen them ban people from GAs for not being part of the group think. I guess this is what happens when you organize an entire movement around demonizing people and accept no responsibility for any of your own mistakes.
The OWS team that controls all the forums nation-wide only allows 'consensus' that is pre-ordained from the Minister of Information in Vancouver-BC, a hungarian that run's CANVAS. The OWS died months ago, but it is quite funny to watch these folks squarm and try to distance themselves from their frankenstein monster, but that said, yes it is my opinion that the OWS is used to justify expansion of the police state, as OWS has only 2 missions.
1.) re-elect obama 2012 2.) Grow and enlarge and enrich the federal prison unions
while #1 is a goal, #2 is the real mission.
As to your assertion that this thread be deleted yes, the truth never lasts more than hours in the world of OWS.
The USA federal prison unions are the #1 supporter and contributor to the OWS. Why else would the federal prison employee union care to empower themselves? They have no other way to grow than to create more criminals or to declare ALL non-federal employees as criminals. It's funny cuz they're the 10% and the rest of us are the 90% ....
IF OWS is dead, why are you still posting here?
Stay in Oakland and revel in your self assessed superiority.
That's an interesting point but like I sad, I had a two month hiatus from this site, after a few days, and in a few hours I'll once again stay away,... for a long time. There is little to learn from this site, ... its just amusing to come here and real the majority opinion.
What I see now is status quo elitism, and yes my base for many a year is Oakland and I know it well, being a 'REAL FUCKING ANARCHIST' for over 50 years, and having spent much of that time in Oakland I know their grievance well. Given that so many special forces military people there go learn to kill courtesy of Uncle-Sam, and then return to live in poverty in Oakland like a few months ago, when one was shot in the head here, for just being at the wrong end of a cop gas grenade being shot haphazard into a crowd.
In NYC it's mostly pussy's protesting, but see in Oakland its mostly men, angry men, well trained men. A pussy can never understand, ... and the pussy well never be part of the revolution, and no revolution was ever one by being kind and gentle.
The USA came to power by the mantra "MIGHT MAKES RIGHT", ... "CARRY A BIG STICK", ... ok that worked well, and the portable-oil post 1920's and BIG-OIL corporations and their CIA/MOSSAD took over the world, but now the world will not take it anymore and the USA is going down.
The riots will be fought in the street, and it will be a civil war, and NOTHING the pussy's in NYC say or do will change anything.
OWS is dead. OWS has no power or influence on anybody. This is truth, and the truth is hated in the land of Orwellian OWS.
In no way am I superior to a NCY pussy. I feel that all are equal. IMHO the NYC folks have long considered themselves superior to us west-coast folk. Just saying.
OWS was dead back in October 2011, if you have to be told the truth.
Like I have said what is happening now in Oakland has NOTHING to do with OWS, its just that the MSM has decided to label all protest as 'OWS' for lack of imagination, or an agenda.
Good bye, and bad luck. I take comfort in the fact that you are a vocal but decidedly tiny minority. The 99% will muddle along just fine without you.
I had no idea that "real f------ing anarchists" FLEE the country they live in when they don't get what they want. Kind of makes anarchy seem pathetic and rooted in cowardice.
I suspect that real Americans and real anarchists would be equally disgusted by you.
The first order of the day is survival.
Nobody survives a 'civil war', by standing around in the fire.
Once the war is over say, .. 5-10 years the USA will have flushed its own toilet and cleaned up the mess, in humility it will have to borrow from the world to rebuild, and like today's post Nazi Germany the children of tomorrows USA will NEVER AGAIN allow the greedy criminals to control their nation.
But in the short term a 'smart anarchist' will weather out the civil-war far from the USA.