Forum Post: This is not about government handouts, this is about ending corruption.
Posted 13 years ago on Oct. 30, 2011, 9:52 p.m. EST by LetThemEatCake
(43)
from New York, NY
This content is user submitted and not an official statement
I'm sick of seeing misinformation about the Occupy movement being a "bunch of whiners looking for a government handout instead of finding a job".
This is about ending government corruption and living in a world that isn't owned and operated by corrupt organizations- something that everyone in the 99% can agree on.
We don't want handouts, we want a revolution.
"I'm sick of seeing misinformation about the Occupy movement being a "bunch of whiners looking for a government handout instead of finding a job".
You said it, this is just misinformation and we have to do our best to ignore these statements. The people that really understand what's going on know that we are not looking for handouts; we are looking for some accountably and opportunities for everyone.
There are many people who would like to get involved with the movement and get extremely frustrated. The ones I see walk away are working class older people. They say too much disorganization or people are too hostile & radical. They look like tea party people...but they are not! They don't want revolution, they want evolution. The energy is there but I think it needs to be better focused. Protesting is fine but if there is no progress, what's the point?
The backroom deals are part of a by gone era that needs to be replaced by transparency and direct input (consent of the governed).
Is "revolution" the only way to deal with corruption? Why would you think a revolution would be effective, especially in the long term, since corruption is part and parcel of human nature?
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Wow. So, you're perfect? Above reproach?
"The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?"
Can you show me ONE revolution that did not dissolve into corruption? Just one?
No nobody is perfect and everyone is a little corrupt in there own way whether we want to admit it or not. But the problem is that the system that has been built breeds corruption and it's a self fulfilling prophesy. The point here is to remove the source of corruption so it doesn't dominate the system. That's why a lot of people are advocating taking money out of politics to completely remove the incentive. Even if you believe OWS is a bunch of crazy hippies you have to agree corporations and politicians have gotten out of control. I think the poster was just over-zealous when talking about a revolution and didn't in any way mean dismantling America. I think he was suggesting more along the lines of a cultural revolution and waking people up to the fact that we are getting taken advantage of.
diggs, you I can agree with. Can you agree with me? I have argued for years that the best way to minimize corruption in government is to minimize the scope and reach of government. The more a central government takes on, the more money it handles and therefore the more incentive towards corruption, simultaneously reducing the ability of citizens to be involved enough to be aware of the corruption.
Yes I can agree with that. The larger the bureaucracy becomes, there is more waste and less transparancy. These people need to be held accountable and the public needs to know what goes on there. With that being said I don't advocate completely deregulating everything either. If we let corporations run wild, the same shit will happen again. First of all, corporations are not people and should not be treated as people. They have absulutely no rights and therefore should be highly regulated to ensure that they work for the country and its citizens, not profit or special interests. What we need to deregulate are people's lives. The government has become so involved in people's lives that they created criminals out of good people. Even good people will eventually fight back when they lose control of their freedoms.
I went on a little rant, but yes I agree with what you said above :D
Check this book. It's about ending corruption. "Wildfire:The Legislation that Ignited the Great Recession" I'm halfway through it and am stunned at how this mess all started.
I read a lot of stuff so I'll make sure I fit this in. Here is a book completely unrelated, but offers an entirely different system of taxation that doesn't impede free-market functions, but promotes equality by taxing the surplus in a free and equitable way.
http://www.henrygeorge.org/pdfs/PandP_Drake.pdf
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Umm. Sure. Never mind the sexual assaults, etc. Sorry, "demonstrator," it's just another mob that's trying to justify the usual mob behavior.
Nearly all advances in human history have been the result of actions by a single person. Nearly all regressions are tied to mobs.
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Demonstrator, I'm just foolin' with you. You are coming across as too much of a cliche to be taken seriously. I lived through the last revolution in the sixties, and I think I and the Republic will live through this one. As ddiggs690 and I apparently agree, there is certainly room for much improvement in the current embodiment of our system of self-governance. But I don't have much hope that a "revolution" like some of the more radical members of this mob fancy will provide anywhere near the robust system that has blessed our nation for almost 225 years. Good night and God bless.
"awakened consciousness"? Isn't that a little redundant? Kind of like saying the same thing?
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Okay, kid. You be sure to let me know how many minds you change with your "more enlightened than thou" schtick.
I agree completely with LetThemEatCake. To assume that the people behind these protests are a bunch of unemployed hippies would be a big mistake. He has correctly identified what the protests should be about. For decades now both the right and the left have been bought and paid for by the corporations and special interests (including unions). The current system of legalized bribery (campaign donations) and paid lobbyists has turned our "representatives" into the lap dogs of the corporations and special interests. People need to wake up and realize that this corruption has disenfranchised the everyday American citizen and in doing so they have taken away our democracy. We do not have real capitalism in our country - what we have is "crony capitalism" or "neo-fuedalism." THE main goal of the protests needs to be getting the money out of our politics. What we need first is real, loop-hole free CAMPAIGN FINANCE REFORM!!!! Until we end the monied interests ability to essentially dictate who can even run for office, nothing is going to change. Think about it - how nice would it be to actually have some real statesmen and women running for office. People who are more concerned about the country than they are about lining their own pockets. The majority of Americans what to see less influence from corporations - this is the "something that everyone in the 99% can agree on." Shout it loud and clear - we want real CAMPAIGN FINANCE REFORM!!! Unless this is achieved, almost everyone reading this can count on their children becoming the 21st century version of the "landless peasant," and the corporations will continue to treat America like their personal ATM.
Check this book. It's about ending corruption. "Wildfire:The Legislation that Ignited the Great Recession" I'm halfway through it and am stunned at how this mess all started.
As a 60's Protestor, now Senior Citizen & Florida Supporter of OWS Manhattan may I suggest the following:
A 2nd offensive must be started, now that the weather will dwindle the numbers of outside participants. All citizens of conscience and support who work for corporate America (e.g., banking, big pharma, insurance, oil, police departments, political operatives, and any other major industry who impacts the quality of our lives) should start to divulge the "dirty little secrets of their bosses/industry" anonymously (e.g., deliberate and trained lies told to the public about products; violations of the law within their industry/company; cheating of the public with specific tactics; training designed to deceive the public, etc.).
We need to expose corporate America for who they really are...ONLY then will they start to bring some modicum of fair play to their dealings with the 99% of us. Much like http://wikileaks.org - JUSTICE AND FAIRNESS WILL ONLY COME BY EXPOSING THE WRONGS. It no longer is acceptable to say "I was just doing my job." If our supporters can understand this, all of the politicians and lobbyist in the country won't be able to stop this tide.
tbh, i know quite a few here who wouldn't care about corruption as long as they're getting enough handouts
There are many people who would like to get involved with the movement and get extremely frustrated. The ones I see walk away are working class older people. They say too much disorganization or people are too hostile & radical. They look like tea party people...but they are not! They don't want revolution, they want evolution. The energy is there but I think it needs to be better focused. Protesting is fine but if there is no progress, what's the point?
Reverse Corruption. Fix the Tax Code. See My Post: 'Fighting Points- Choose And Do It Now'.
dang they didn't even rally for the jobs bill
If it is about "ending government corruption" as you claim, why isn't the movement protesting the government?
Calling the movement "Occupy Wall Street" is not a way of ending government corruption. It is actually kind of whitewashing government's role.
Wall Street can't change anything. The only body that has any authority to change anything is the government.
Yet .... for some reason Wall Street is somehow the enemy and the target. It is a misguided approach.
Big banks own the government, take a look around.
Like the Tea Party?
What do you mean like the Tea Party? Rico's post has nothing to do with the Tea Party. It's about focusing the movement to protest the correct people. Why are you so concerned with labels?
Not trying to label... I just see similarities in both movements being dissatisfied with the government and direction the country is going. I think if the two movements could find common ground to focus on in would benefit everyone.
Thank you, I recognize you're frustration, the media is going to try to find that one person in the crowd to make us look bad and put the spotlight on them. The clear thinkers of this movement, which I believe to be in the overwhelming majority must keep our movement on track. This is a populist movement of the people, which means that we must all do our part to take lead and take control of our movement. We are responsible for keeping the foolishness out of our movement. What do I mean? You see someone about to do something stupid like throw something at the cops, stop them. You see someone protesting for something crazy like communism, socialism ect drown their voice out and let them know firmly but peacefully that were not about that. Confront people from making blanket simple statements like "tax the rich" because our goals are not that simple, and that will only be construed as a means by the media to kill our movement. What we really mean is end corpt loopholds and make them at least pay an effective % like the middle class. We know that, but the media will try to make it into something different. Its up to us to get the right message out about our movement.
What message? You're creating a model of society of what YOU deem appropriate. You are living in park. It is not a representative microcosm of society. The only message you are all sending "We're pissed off about corruption in Wall Street ." So, the majority of the country is looking at you and saying, "Okay, your pissed off at Wall Street because of Corruption, What do you want to do about it?" And the silence. You've got peoples attention, but you're not saying anything. But what is coming through loud and clear is all the negative attention OWS is getting. The sad thing there are problems and this could be a chance to make change. I'm not talking about a Revolution, Anarchy, or anything diabolical. The longer OWS doesn't define a clear intention - the momentum is going die out pretty quickly.
Sure thats easy, and i'll keep this simple
Campaign finance reform "no bribing of govt elected officials," lobbying shouldn't be a necessity to running for public office. We as a naiton fund all kinds of things, running for public office shouldn't be dependent on, or recieve millions of dollars from anybody
Change or end the fed. The fed taxes us, then gives our money to "for profit banks" who lend us our own money back to us, at an inflated rate under the name of "stimulating growth in the economy". Then when those financial institutions fuel inflation and crash the economy, we the tax payers are left with the debt in two ways. The federal debt of our govt spending so much, and the personal debts to the financial system.
If our govt "which really means we the tax payers" is going to back banks through the FDIC, then we need to have more oversight on their practices. Stop them from becoming "too big to fail", why does the govt choose winners and loosers in the financial system? Why do just 8 banks control 80% of all wealth assets, and real estate in our country? Because those are the banks the govt has lended the most too. This govt/ bank/ corporate america cooperation to screw america has to stop. And we do have a clear intention, its all over this forum. Look up the list of 6 demands. Its all about what I said above.
well perhaps is you whine enough you will get change... do you think sitting and stinking up a park is going to do anything?? honestly, revolution? im sure all the elected officials, ceo's, wealthy attorneys ect will just up and quit because a couple hundred people are stamping thier feet and beating on drums. where are all the donations comming from? what are you doing with them?
Wow its sad that someone had to make this a post but i can also say that it is needed!!!!! http://therevolutionarytruth.tumblr.com/
By corrupt organizations meaning the government? Both sides are equally corrupt. Repubs and dems. Why aren't more of us marching at the White House. We should all be at the white house. Don't you agree?
well perhaps is you whine enough you will get change... do you think sitting and stinking up a park is going to do anything?? honestly, revolution? im sure all the elected officials, ceo's, wealthy attorneys ect will just up and quit because a couple hundred people are stamping thier feet and beating on drums. where are all the donations comming from? what are you doing with them?
Hey, first of all Im in houston, we controll our movement quite differently from NY, our park looks different, and we are handling our protests differently. Dont believe me look up houston end the fed rally on youtube. secondly I get no donations, I work for a living, and rather you know it or not, just having a populist movement of people talking and organizing on even community levels is making a difference. You're an outsider, so you dont know crap
Actually the OWS movement is effecting change. The fact that you and I are commenting on this board is proof of that. If OWS can get a critical mass of the population to pressure the government on a few key items the movement will be a success. But lets face it, some of the demands are totally crazy.
you want free goat cheese and truffles under the guise of trying to create a woodstock like moment, but you don't know what you really are "protesting" other than the fact you are lazy and can't get a job. go home, or leave the US, and STFU