Forum Post: There is No Saving an Apathetic Public
Posted 12 years ago on Dec. 20, 2011, 1:30 p.m. EST by hchc
(3297)
from Tampa, FL
This content is user submitted and not an official statement
If you guys think this is the public waking up, you are gravely mistaken. Almost half still dont know what OWS is.
People get the government they deserve. Plain and simple.
True...
For example... though I wont go into relationship details.
I am affected by the current economic crisis.. going through verge of being homeless.. I have a wife and daughter to feed and I am facing facts that even mcdonalds wont hire me.
I have 1 dollar to my name yet my mother is oblivious. She tells me I can land a job just like that with the snap of my finger. Shes ignorant every time i explain the job economy / market and that im not the only person afflicted.
She says this "I dont give a fuck about them" why because it does not affect her. In my own mothers eyes though she has a child who is afflicted by the current status of the United States... "there is no recession" we are "not climbing into a great depression" the job economy is all good and well.. in fact in my mothers eyes all of us can get a job now!
She is the perfect example of how "awake" the public is.
It's the public equivalent of getting out an abusive household. There is a lot of co-dependency, negative psychology and fear of change to overcome.
Absolutely not true. The message IS getting through. Every hour there is some impact on the media - people are discussing it, politicians are acting, regulators are changing regulations, the public attitude is changing. People may not know it is down to the Occupy Movement - but some of it is!
The most important thing is PERSISTENCE!!!
That always wins in the end.
"You can't kill the Occupy Movement".
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yjR3aLpYd6k
Hear, hear!!!
That being said, keep up the good fight
I think you guys are way more proactive than anything I've seen in years. There's a tipping point where ideas become the mainstream's thought. It's how slavery ended --------with a few activists and a mostly apathetic public for years and years till finally the balance tipped and it became a mainstream idea.
Does an apathetic public (toward OWS) indicate a contented public?
I would say so. Theres a reason for medicaid, food stamps and housing welfare- take care of the basics so people dont revolt.
But the other half do. So --- it's up to us to bring the others along, rite?
Very much so. I have been pushing for community outreaches for quite some time.
Good for you !
Supportively ---
Lynne
50 % ! That's FABULOUS !
Repetition is like subliminal advertising. It works !
Even people who are asleep don't necessarily get the government they deserve just because they are asleep, The law generally doesn't blame victims just because they weren't paying attention, The manufacture of consent is extremely insidious, Of course we have a very, very big job to do, but we are a movement in its infancy and we cannot be expected to do what a fully matured and significantly larger movement might do,
What is astonishing is not how little OWS has accomplished, but that it exists at all and that it has grown so spectacularly around the world in a few short weeks,
Its been three months, the growth is over. I really think it spread like it did, not because people have had enough (plenty of middle class in OWS) but due to social media. When times get tough, people look to something to belong to. OWS is that something. But I think thats why it has stayed at the size it is. The underlying desire wasnt there, it was basically social media that grew it.
Why the impatience? It takes a human baby 9 months to mature and two decades or more to reach full maturity and OWS is a lot bigger than a single human baby. I know that you can only stretch a human metaphor so far, but look at the civil rights movement, I fought something of an underground struggle for decades, It emerged with the Brown decision in 1954 but the Montgomery Bus Boycott was more than a year after that, The firs lunch counter sit ins were five years after that and the March on Washington was 3 years after the first lunch counter sit ins, The voting rights act was passed two years after the March on Washington,
In comparison the rapid growth of OWS has been nothing short of astonishing, What is more, as important as the goals of the civil rights movement were, what OWS is after is really much more fundamental, a much more fundamental change in society, social relations, how we govern each other and the institutions we use to govern each other, In that sense it is not even really fair to say that OWS is still in its infancy, If we are to continue that metaphor I'd say we are still in the womb,
OWS is not at all staying the size it is, though its rate of growth has of course slowed down from the initial explosion, but new occupaitons and GAs are starting up all the time, lately especially on college campuses,
Patience is a revolutionary virtue, Solidarity forever!
The difference with this and other movements is those were fighting a certain set of rules. This is fighting a gap. And they are widening the gap while we fight.
If you read any of the very few documents that OWS has produced and that have been passed by a GA (especially the NYC GA), most particularly the Declaration of the Occupation of New York City, which is available on this website and elsewhere on the web, I think you would have to conclude that OWS is about something much different than "closing the gap." "Closing the gap" suggests that OWS sees the 1% as having some legitimacy, but if you read the Declaration carefully, I think that is not the case, Indeed one of the main reasons why OWS has raised no demands is that to demand something from some body suggests that you accept the legitimacy of that body, OWS doesn't. Look at the home page of this web site, It says that we don't need politicians or corporations to build a better society, If we don't need them there is no need to demand anything of them, But that also suggests a much bigger and much different project than "closing the gap."
You know, this isn't like spreading the good word of Christianity, which requires irrational belief. We have financial and historical facts on our side. We have an American tradition that resists "taxation without representation". Meet people where they are. Just as the ignorant do not deserve less than heaven from a Christian perspective, so too do they deserve better here on earth. This is what we can do.
This makes alot of sense. "Meet people where they are" - most people are mainstream. Lots of OWS beliefs and ideas are not. There are some philosophical differences that many people will not be able to get past. Plus, OWS has a horrible marketing plan. Dare I even use the word "plan"? It's a marketing disaster really.
At one point, OWS is purposeful theater which calls attention to the situation. It has generated conversations and 'conversions' from apathy.
That said, surely, it's easier to preach to the choir when there's a desire for consensual action-- which has a marginalizing tendancy towards the choir's constituents. Voters in general assemblies don't represent the diversity of silenced people that could be in solidarity, much like our government.
I agree. It's theater all right! And truth is stranger!!
It's methods have gotten attention. Given people a place to have a voice. I'm not convinced it was due so much to OWS methods as it was to the right time/right place, the high level of discontent and frustration in society. Could be that any number of different methods could have gotten the same reaction.
At this point though, I think the OWS methods are holding this movement back from gaining more mainstream support and being so much more than people complaining in a park. It's time to move beyond that and get serious about making changes in government.
OWS "we don't need politicians" - the majority (mainstream) know that this is positively ridiculous. This single statement is enough evidence for most people that this movement lacks credibility.
The very direct democracy that OWS seems to claim is the solution, is the very thing being used to protect itself and its non-power structure. OWS main purpose really is to keep it's direct democracy in existance.
The horizontal structure of this thing, the direct democracy that is used to manipulate - was put into place precisely because it is difficult to break through. It prevents the movement from being co-opted, above all, by the moderate voices in the movement.
And nearly everyone wants at least the rights and liberties granted in the constitution. If everyone stopped (everyone) working for a day, on this issue, the world would change. Barring this, the supposed slippery slope to compromise and complicity should be examined. For, are we not already 'part of the problem'? And insofar as your neighbor disagrees, we have a long way to go.
I think it's already been examined pretty extensively. OWS just doesn't realize it. We have already evolved from anarchy. OWS wants to go back a few thousand years, start all over and re-evolve I think. : )
Hopefully it won't take that long this go around to figure out that anarchy doesn't work.
“Democracy destroys itself because it abuses its right to freedom and equality. Because it teaches its citizens to consider audacity as a right, lawlessness as a freedom, abrasive speech as equality, and anarchy as progress.”― Isocrates
If all else fails try --- repetition ! Very effective on an empty mind.
True. But I just cant get anyone to really listen. Most just honestly dont care...
Try pointing them to the Declaration. I've seen peoples eyes light right up.
It's easy to blame people for their ignorance, but their ignorance is not their fault, it's what their environment made them to be.
Every event that happened to you contributed to your development.
Don't give up on them. You would be just like them if you growth up in their environment!
It's not us and them, it's all us. It's not that we need to wake them up, we need to wake the rest of us up!
I gave it my best shot...damn I really tried to wake them up... I have no idea what else to do...I suppose most of them will not even care about NDAA as long as that have their TV programs to watch and electronic toys to buy. You are right...people get the government they deserve.....
That may be true but I know that I most always mention OWS to anyone I'm speaking to and I throw in a good word about how proud I am to be an American today and how they are encouraging awareness and empowering people with knowledge. Try not to get too cynical because it's not productive to positive change.
People do not listen. We must set the example. WE must show the world the change we want to see. We must teach people that you can love instead of hate.
Letting Elites choose your candidates, knowing damn well they are bought, is a perfect example.
but will you become a delegate to the NGA? Let your neighbors chose you? Cue the excuses...
Im down. I dont think they will, but I would if given the opportunity. You?
Good for you. You do your country a great service. Can you picture yourself at Independence Hall signing the document? I can!!
You might win the election by default because most people don't realize what's going on and don't realize the elections are only about 95 days away. Of The People, by The People, for The People returns!
See you in Philly ; )
http://www.the99declaration.org/
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Harvard poll says 33% Agree with OWS, 37% don't and the rest don't care. Comming from the liberal hot bed that is Harvard those are some pretty bad numbers.
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I agree. Everyone on here is miserable and they want you to be miserable with them. A herd of miserable people. Envy of what the other person has. ENVY is what I continue to read on this site.
Keep hatin', and even you will be envying the freedoms and employment opportunities in communist China in a couple more years... only wishing you had decided to help out. :)
I am helping. I want to cut the debt we owe to China. Cut the budget so we can pay down the debt.
Let's stop complaining about what's "not possible" and --- WORK !
Work? Now that is an interesting concept.
Only a few months before the Orange Revolution of 2004, all the so-called experts and pundits were saying that the Ukrainian people were frustrated with their corrupt government but far too "APATHETIC" to ever do anything about it...
And suddenly, a handful of young people began to gather in a city square. The rest - as they say - is history...
I am aware of that. Im not saying its not possible, Im just saying that the people here have it much better than the Ukranians. Ive been there. And that was about gaining political freedom, not asking the money to share.
They will grant voting rights, equal rights more open gov, etc much more willingly than sharing the cash
But we have power too. Maybe it is us (it should be us) who will decide not to "share the cash"..
The American public has been hypnotized, dumbed down, cretinized by decades of shitty television...
But if you think nothing can awaken us from our stupor, OH BOY! are you in for a SURPRISE!
The Spirit of 1776 is alive and kicking!!!
Thank you, OWS, for heralding the great awakening of a great people!
This may be the start. But if this is IT, then we are screwed..
We'll know by July 4th at the National General Assembly
PREDICTION: You ain't seen nuttin' yet!
I agree. But I dont think its going to stay a non-violent, end central mishaps and bought politicians, for too much longer.
Groups in the street turn to angry mobs just as fast as runs on the bank happen.
I for one HOPE AND PRAY that the necessary changes will happen as peacefully as possible. OWS is, of course, deeply committed to non-violence and I COMMEND them for it.
However, there are many, many angry people OUTSIDE of OWS who may be tempted to take up arms, join militias and whatnot. So I definitely share your concern.
If Obama had any moral and political leadership, he would DEFUSE the situation by ADDRESSING the core issues of glaring economic inequality, the repeal of Citizens United. If he fails to do that and civil war breaks out, I'm afraid history will label him an incompetent and a coward.
Look at how history looks upon Lincoln, or any other president that presides over disasters...
No need for saving. Preach to Christians about saving! Germans got Hitler. Well deserved...Dresden! Obama...best choice...still sucks!
Actually, Wall Street financed Hitler, the German people didn't deserve that:
Wall Street and the Rise of Hitler http://www.reformed-theology.org/html/books/wall_street/
Well now...do the Jews deserve the so called Palestinians? No. The people, the German people feel guilt....why? (reparations) Why, didn't they enjoy killing the Jews? Yes they did. And so...the history books speak now.
People can be brainwashed or misled into doing a lot of bad things. You seem to want to hold the common people responsible, but not those who brainwash them.
Who are you ready to kill under the guise of brainwash? Murderer! Who would you kill because KKK said so? Bullshit. Bloodthirsty antisemitic vermin! But, today they repent. So we'll give them a second chance, now that they feel guilt, pay reparations and support Israel.
I'm not willing to kill anyone, because I am not brainwashed. You should consider how ridiculous it is to be making accusations of murder and vermin against a person you don't even slightly know.
If you look around, you will see that there are people here who can disagree without becoming hateful and accusatory. You should try it sometime.
I did. Then you told me that the Germans were innocent. My grandparents, aunts, uncles and cousins were butchered by your 'brainwashed'. Don't make ridiculous statements. Fuck off.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EewGMBOB4Gg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Z9WVZddH9w