Forum Post: The ten commandments of OWS
Posted 13 years ago on Oct. 10, 2011, 9:10 a.m. EST by RayinPenn
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1) The government is supposed to supply all my needs. A job, health benefits,disaster relief, etc. Truth: The government has been and will always be the worse provider for anything. Inefficient and bloated they will waste money every time. The governments main job is to provide an environment where people will be left to their own devices to succeed or fail. The more the government is involved with anything the greater the likelihood of failure. Our government should provide a limited safety net of last resort..not a hammock. 2) The government should pay my student loans. Reality: Choosing an expensive college is a personal decision. If you choose to take on the debt it's your burden not societies. 3) We represent the 99%. Reality: More like less than 1%. 4) Redistribution of wealth is the answer. Reality: redistribution is already happening. Our jobs and oil money are headed overseas and the tax man takes it away from the wealthy when they die. 5) The American dream is dead. Reality: Creativity, hard work, a passion and acuity in delivering a needed good or service will be rewarded. Take a look at Steve Jobs life. Why do you think so many people want to come here? 6) Banks are responsible for the economic crisis. Reality: people over extended themselves, falsified mortgage applications omitting debt and inflating salaries. Many people had skin in the failure. Greed absolutely! but was Everywhere! 7) The rich are keeping the masses down. Reality: The rich aren't hoarding a finite supply of food in their basements. Their money is on the stock market, their businesses and the economy. They employ. It's easy to envy their successes... 8) Capitalism/profits are dirty words. Reality: Capitalism brought us the iPad, 40 mpg cars and a million things we all take for granted. The other forms of government were tried and failed miserably. 9) They are responsible for my situation. Reality: Count how often OWS speakers use the word they. While some people clearly have had challenges (health, etc.) Many of us are the masters of our own destiny. Have you lived a simple life or have you been chasing the ever bigger toy? Have you truly taken advantage of every opportunity available to you? It's often about taking responsibility for you choices. 10) In our new paradigm there will be jobs for everyone, healthcare and it will be better. Reality: Look at Greece and the former Soviet Union. The result will be either misery and/or unsustainable.
"6) Banks are responsible for the economic crisis."
Yes, they actually are. It's a single BANK known as the Federal Reserve aka the Fed. It's a PRIVATE, CENTRAL bank that loans us our own currency, controls inflation (through printing more money), and controls the economy.
I attend the local community college, the college itself is NOT EXPENSIVE. I take out the maximum in loans to help pay for books and bills. So an average year of college for me is about $10k. In addition I work two jobs, so yeah, it has nothing to do with what school you pick. If I could have found a job paying what I use to make, I would have chosen NOT to go back to school, however, after almost two years of unemployment, working only temp jobs and working for HALF of what I was making in '08, I had few other options other than to go back to school and retrain myself in a new field. You don't seem to understand peoples situation.
villanova 50k a year -community college should be about 5k a year if you live with your parents.. 10k would include a lot of fluff....so what obviously makes. Diff.
I'm 40 years old with two children first of all. Second of all, what fucking parents?
Hmm sound like you have a pretty good hill to climb. Good luck.
Unity will make or break this movement. You have 1000 people saying 1000 different things you need as a whole to decide your like top 5 or top 10 things you want to see changed this will eleminate confusion and it will help people like me who are trying to figure out exactly what you guys are about so I know if I want to support it or not. You cant have a thousand different agendas it wont work. You need a leader a Moses so to speak who will go to the media and others on your behalf. If you do not do this it will fall apart. A bunch of old people strumming folk music on a guitar wont do crap. You can wave all the signs you want but it wont do crap. Stop electing Dems and Repubs into office elect independants who stand for something who are not rich and or have corprations backing them up.
It looks like the 1% is trying to speak for the 99% again. Let's face it, OWS started because society is financially out of balance. How is it that the top 300,000 Americans now enjoy almost as much income as the bottom 150 million. Do the math, that's 0.12% with as much or more wealth than the other 99.88%. Does that sound right? Absolutely not and don't tell me the 0.12% deserve it, do you really believe they work harder than the rest? No, it's just the unbalanced lines of our society and the same society that protects them and their money. The Joe the Plumbers of the world need to wake up and realize that the Republicans are only out to protect the rich. The Democrats on the other hand sometimes puts too much emphasis on the poor and the end result is the middle class are getting squeezed out. Sad to say, the Republicans have thrown up such a smoke screen with all of their moral majority lies, that may people that are in the middle class and the lower middle classes actually believe the propaganda that the Republicans are the better choice based on non-financial issues such as Religion, Gay Rights, Abortion, etc. and in the process they are the losers because the rich are paying less. Since 1980, when Ronald Reagan became President, the income of the bottom 90% of Americans has increased only by 1%, while those in the top 1% saw their average income more than double. I’ve been watching the country and the world shift the balance of money to a very small elite few and squeeze the rest of us for too long now and I’ve been wondering why people haven’t been protesting in the street about it, maybe things weren’t bad enough to push people that far and many live in a dream world thinking they too can be rich or hoping to win Lotto, but reality bites and there is no tooth fairy and eventually there will be a revolution if the balance isn’t restored. Laugh all you want, but there are plenty of intelligent and educated people that are hurting, people that have worked hard all of their lives and now because of circumstance have very little to show for it and they are angry and their voice needs to be heard. Just because Fox news and other biased media outlets depicts this as a group of crazies, don’t believe it. This is only the beginning and if real reform doesn’t happen, there will be a revolution and you won’t be laughing then!!
Yet there are many who are living the american dream. You just sound too preachy and angry.
Ps I wish I was in the 1% but I'm not even close.
I believe that society is out of balance because 1% buys their representation in our government and 99% are left with the scraps. The voices of the 99% are no longer heard by our government. Of course our country is in a terrible mess. Our democracy is in a shambles.
Well said.
I believe that our political system must be changed to take all of the money out. Separation of money and State. All campaigns should be publicly funded. Money speaks too loudly in our government and it is drowning out the voices of the 99% We need to get our democracy back! There are alot of problems in our country, and the best way to start solving those problems is to re-establish our democracy the way it was meant to be! So that all of our voices are heard fairly and equally by our government.
Want to vote and change all this? Good luck. The new tactic is to prevent voting: stop you from registering, discourage actual voting if you do manage to register.
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/29/us/politics/29vote.html?_r=1 http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/the-gop-war-on-voting-20110830
Are you sure this isn't a list of 10 things right-wing businessmen brainwash people to believe to advance their own economic interests even to the detriment of society as a whole? Because that's what it looks like to me.
I support both many concepts that would make a right winger turn red with anger -for example 1) Increase the tax rate on the wealthy 2) go to a flat tax on corporations and individuals 3) eliminate all exemptions, deduction etc. 4) withdraw from every country we are presently fighting in 5) provide tax incentives for all vehicles purchased getting better than 30 mpg 6) imposed a tax on every American Corp hiring overseas and use it to support engineering and science education domestically. 7) provide tax incentives for sper insulating of homes. 8) tax gas guzzlers heavily.
That's all well and good. But your list is a ridiculous caricature of OWS, and the alleged "realities" naive to the extreme. For example, your first alleged "truth" is that "[t]he government has been and will always be the worse provider for anything." This is ridiculous nonsense that wreaks of having been brainwashed. For example, government is unquestionably a superior provider of insurance. This is because it can make use of the largest risk pool pool (the entire country), keep administrative costs to a minimum, and does not require profit (which is social waste).
I strongly suggest you read the articles I posted below if you have any interest in actually understanding what OWS is doing.
How about social security, Medicare, procurement of anything, hurricane relief to name a few. You pontificate, but in the end are full of hot air.
Take a macroeconomics class, it'll do you some good. Income-gaps in the world aren't based on domestic policies and corporate greed, it's caused by GDP deficits in the world. Here's a source: (Xavier Sala-i-Martin, “The Disturbing ‘Rise’ of Global Income Inequalities” April 2002). "Corporate greed" is the reason why CEOs of supermarkets put food out on their shelves and you don't need to hunt for food every single day. This is self-interest. It makes the economy work.
And you should study some political science. Income inequalities in the US are indeed based precisely on domestic policies and corporate greed, especially of the financial variety. See Winner-Take-All Politics: Public Policy, Political Organization, and the Precipitous Rise of Top Incomes in the United States, available at: http://pas.sagepub.com/content/38/2/152.full.pdf
You are also mistaken that I have some beef with corporations per se. No, you see, I have a problem with the assholes who run them unaccountably.
After that, you can read Corporations and the Public Purpose: Restoring the Balance, available at: http://www.corporatepolicy.org/issues/corppurpose.pdf to learn about the history of corporations in the United States, including their status as extensions of the government.
I strongly suggest you read my links to get an education.
Thank you for your voice of reason - OWS is an interesting phenomena but it seems like there are too many insane concepts being included to generate any real credibility. If there is to be a legitimate voice on the left, they need to do it within the constraints of American constitutional law. Cries for "democracy" are straw man by which our "republic" can be eroded. So far the most obvious result of OWS has been to give voice to useful idiots.
Disagree, this is movement, in my opinion, is neither left nor right, but is asking for all ideas, all input from all who wish to be involved. It is being held, in my opinion, as a democratic process, and yes, it is messy. But look at Egypt, who inspired many, they are now fighting each other because of the vacuum in authority. We in the US know how democracy works, and OWS is doing just that, creating a democratic process. Makes me proud of Americans who have leaped into the fray.
Well said :) Entitlement is NOT the answer, the only rights we are entitled to are listed as the amendments to Constitution in the form of the Bill of Rights.
Why do you CONS keep trying to bring something down, that benefits you as well. Are you so spoon fed by Fox Spews that you cant even tell the difference between fact and fictions anymore. The Protestors need to protest the obvious lack of education in America as well.
I am simply trying attain focus by identifying reality. If a movement is based on a flawed premise it can't succeed. It needs accuracy and focus both of which are lacking right now. Ive read the blog and there are some genuine people venting whichnis great but there are also those that use businessman, the rich as if were profane..Benjamin Franklyn was a businessman as was Jefferson, Adams and guess what all were successful as well.
If by "lack of education" you mean - failure of students and parents - then I'm with you. If you want education you can get it - education is not a function of "teaching" it is a function of individual effort to take advantages of the opportunities presented.... a behavior and value usually instilled by parents. That said, the content of what is presented in our American educational system leaves a lot to be desired. I'll bet most Americans couldn't pass a citizenship test.
To some extent. We have a complete failure in the system. No Child Left Behind created an atmosphere where children are passed along irregardless if they learned or not. Parents cant even keep their children behind when they fail the standardized testing. (I tried) I dont blame teachers, its the system and parents not being involved enough. Schools more worried about getting their accreditation funding over actually teaching. Yet, we demean the Teachers who are doing what they have to to keep their job in the situation and we consistently cut funding to education.
Ray, you've been trolling for awhile with these posts. The OWS isn't just filled with liberals/socialists/communists. I'm a Libertarian. Please stop trying to fracture the movement. We need you and your opinions, but calmly educating people as to your stance would be a lot more beneficial. Of course, that's just my two cents.
If you're a libertarian, do you believe that it is acceptable to initiate force to take property from one individual/entity and give it to another?
There are always exceptions. For example, if you pull a weapon on me, I will take it away and give it to someone else for safe keeping.
Primarily, I support the long-term survival of humanity. I think self-interest/capitalism is the best method currently available for achieving that, but it does need to be controlled on rare occasions. For example, I think the government must act as a defense from the rich/powerful enslaving the poor (otherwise, I usually don't care if people have more money than me).
Your example of me pulling a weapon on you would be me initiating force against you and you absolutely should defend yourself. That isn't an exception, its the rule.
Do you not think that it is in a rational person's self interest to be upstanding and fair in all of their transactions? Sure, you will get con men who rip people off (initiate force or fraud) but they are short lived, at best. The ones who are around a long time are the ones with a reputation for honesty. Given what you've said, shouldn't the government's role be to act more as a referee to keep people from ripping each other off? The way it is now, the gov is picking winners/losers and deciding who gets goodies.
People are honest most of the time when they are known (i.e. small towns). In bigger cities where there are more strangers than friends/family the benefits towards dishonest behavior starts to rise above the risks.
I am not an anarchist. I do think the government should maintain/operate the judicial branch. I am against privatized jails and the death penalty.
As to your question, I think the government should handle enforce/decide contract disputes.. although I have heard some interesting arguments about 3rd party groups acting as mediators.
So are you against the initiation of force or aren't you? Are property rights (meaning property gained honestly) absolute or are they fuzzy?
property rights are fuzzy (look at intellectual property rights for example).
You want to nail me down to a simple yes/no... and it isn't a simple question.
How can you be against the initiation of force and FOR the theft of property?
The mess we are in with crony capitalism is precisely caused by allowing the government to transfer private property by initiating force. Once the government is in the business of picking winners/losers people with the means will rig the system in their favor. OWS either gets it or it doesn't. If it doesn't get it, we get more of the same.
You sir, are not a libertarian. Moving on.
captaindoody, again. It's not a simple question. You buy a music CD. that is your CD. What are your rights regarding the property of that disc? Can you make copies of it? Can you give out copies to your friends?
LIkewise, the government sells property (bandwidth, land, mineral rights, etc). how is property allocated in the beginning of the game without government?
You sir, apparently are thinking too shallowly about Libertarian concepts.
Fracture the movement? The movement appears to be quite diverse with many agendas. Some useful, some not so much.
sorry, I must have been thinking of someone else. I thought you were a guy that kept on posting copies of the same threads over and over. My bad.
Excellent!!!!