Forum Post: The System is NOT Corrupt
Posted 13 years ago on Oct. 10, 2011, 12:22 p.m. EST by BMaghi
(1)
from Arezzo, Toscana
This content is user submitted and not an official statement
Bravi !!
This is potentially the most exciting moment to re-imagine the world since the 1970's. I have watched from afar (Italy) since day one of the Occupation and will join you briefly next week on Wall Street.
The power of the movements in North Africa, Athens and Spain is becoming clear. Soon Italy and the rest of Europe will join. The brilliance of this movement, like Spain, is precisely in its generality creating openings for an infinite number of possibilities. Don't let the media or unions, party leaders (no matter how progressive they appear) assert themselves as leaders. Adhere relentlessly to your simple principles:
- self-organization
- absolute democracy based on consensus
- inclusion of all (do not be divided by citizenship etc)
Allow fluidity by creating Temporary Autonomous Councils for those directly involved in the occupation. Everyone needs a safe forum to express their ideas.
Politically I would stop with the constant refrain about corruption. There is no corruption in the system itself. It is doing exactly what it was designed to do and has always done. Since the founding of the American Republic with its radical separation between economic rights and political rights, the "system" functions to mobilize the poor and the working classes to sanctify the wealth of the few, thus insuring the domination of the economic interesest. Africans were defined as property! Children as sources of labor! And nothing has changed but the shameless arrogance of the rich. But the rich themselves are in crisis and they too know that many of them will not survive this crisis. Many will join the ranks of the protesters to make the "system" more humane, but in survival there is no humanity nor rationality. They will respond with a savagery unimagined up to now. But, as everyone has said the power of unity and the imagination far exceeds the power of money. Keep struggling we will join you soon.
B. Maghi (Italy)
"Democracy is nothing more than mob rule, where 51% of the people may take away the rights of the other 49%." Thomas Jefferson
pure democracy is as oppressive to personal freedom as any other form of tyranny...
Hyperbole.
Obviously 51% of the population is served in a Democracy and it encourages cooperation for future votes so even the minority concerns are respected to some extent. The problem with Democracy is how time intensive it is; most citizens are too busy to devote the kind of time to make it functional so we compromise with a Representative Republic. The drawback of a Republic being it's easier to corrupt than a pure Democracy. Either way, both systems still do a reasonable job representing and protecting the interests of most of the individuals in the society (particularly when coupled with a concept like inalienable rights).
This is contrasted with Oligarchies, Kleptocracies and Totalitarian rule where only a fraction of a percent has a voice and will oppress an even larger section of the population. In other words, "Democracy is just as oppressive to personal freedom as any other form of tyranny." is a load of bull.
B, thanks for your insights. There is good advice here. I agree and disagree tho. The Constitutional system you refer to is viable, but when those in power turn a blind eye to widespread problems and outside corruption, (Enron, Bernie Madeoff, Big Oil, etc.) then the whole institution of government is suspect - and must be dealth with.
As for the comments defining democracy, the key is that it is a dynamic system. While 51% hold a certain view today, they are being relentlessly influence by the other 49%. Debate must take place so that ideas can be changed and minds can be moved.
"In modern republics such as the United States and India, the executive is legitimized both by a constitution and by popular suffrage."
The US is a democratic process but the minority is protected by a constitution which gives us the status of a Republic. There is nothing wrong in calling it a democracy with the caveat that the majority cannot remove the rights of the minority.
AND A GRAND WELCOME TO OUR FRIEND IN ITALY!
I disagree. The corruption was not inherent, but has been injected through legal methods of legislation and court rulings, and it needs to be adressed head-on, with no capitulation.
Obama/Microsoft Illegal Campaign Contributions 2008
http://expotera-ceo.blogspot.com/2010/05/microsoft-illegal-campaign.html
Corruption is so pervasive in Italy (I was in Tuscany two weeks ago and in Rome when your legislature let Mr. B's croney escape prosecution) that it is difficult to understand if there is any system there, but I suggest you focus on sorting out the root causes of your problems. We have our hands full with our system and the tinkering we need to do. Good luck.