Forum Post: The People will Not go Away because . . .
Posted 12 years ago on Dec. 4, 2011, 12:09 a.m. EST by Toynbee
(656)
from Savannah, GA
This content is user submitted and not an official statement
- the problems and corruption have not gone away.
re-Occupy.
Occupy their minds.
You can't arrest an idea whose time has come
once the paradigm starts to crack a paradigm shift is increasingly more inevitable.
http://occupythiswiki.org/wiki/Paradigm_Shift
Whats the idea?
corporate oligarchy is stupid and evil. Its time for a genuinely egalitarian and ethical society.
Is that what this is about? So your suggesting that you will decide what is a genuinely egalitarian and ethical society. What makes you such an expert? A bunch of Leftist commies want to change our society so that it meets their "expectations" of what an egalitarian and ethical society. You know what I am the 99% and we don't want you guys changing the world to your stupid commie ideas. A utopia is never going to exist and pursuing one is just plain stupid.
what makes ME the expert is that I studied the assorted sciences to the expert level. You diabolizing this movement and lefties and communists only proves you are a fucktard troll whos got a narrative hes repeating but which as usual is detached from actual reality.
YOU can continue to be self defeating and civilization will continue to burn. UNTIL YOU WAKE UP, we will fight FOR you.
You saying a utopia will never exist? lol? why? because people like you are so evil as that they will fight against evolutionary forces to prevent it?
Whats plain stupid is you repeating 5 uncanned repugnicon talking points as if you had any moral authority or any strength. You are a trollbird, sitting on a line, spouting uncanned BS some pundit screwed into your ear.
Grow up and bother to find out what its about, instead of asking me only to try to then TELL me.
No because people don't want a perfect society. You can't claim to want to keep humans the same as they are and then want a utopian society. Human emotions will end it incredibly quickly.
the first thing that has to change is all of us and how we relate and take real responsibility. protesting and arguing out here ain't taking that responsibility, we must tackle this in whole new dimensions to take the responsibility and thats what the wiki is for.
http://occupythiswiki.org/wiki/OccupyThisWiki:About
Telling people to change is like telling it to stop raining. When has it ever actually worked?
I'm not suggesting that we tell people to change. I am suggesting we facilitate change by bringing presentation style knowledge sets to bear on the problems and thus have a paradigm shift which will make the old reality obsolete.
Its not about telling people to do something. its about doing something and having them appreciate your work.
Would you mind telling me how you plan to do that?
http://occupythiswiki.org/wiki/Main_Page
http://occupythiswiki.org/wiki/Process_WorkShops
Anger issues, so you have a temper when someone disagrees with you. I bet in your utopia people like me would have to be shut up permanently, in my world we can coexist, but not yours. You have proven my point, with all your good intentions to perfection there are problem people that have to be dealt with. Keep your utopia in your head
No anger. Just bored discipline of a retard ignoramus. In the utopia, people like you won't exist because you won;t be spoon fed lies and BS from a malignant and evil media, and you won't be a propaganda pwn toy soldier out fighting with uncanned propaganda- because we will be sooo over that BS by then. So people like you are a relic of the past- dinos and cro magnons. You are inhabiting a devolutionary space, and evolution both ends that space and ends for those people inhabiting that space.
But just saying that some small batch of stupid evil con scam retards like you does continue to spew nonsense? You'd just be ignored, and the trolling would be over sooner because we would have your shit removed.
That wouldn't shut you up permanently, it would make you the new protest, i suppose, against a new and different order. There you would be, protesting.. but we would let you protest.. and ignore you.
With all of your troll spin BS, all you have done is spread disinformation and lies, and you deserve to be confronted and smacked down as a pwn fool who is lying, and probably too ignorant to even know it.
Who's ignorant Gawd???
non sequitor, the question is relevant to specific knowledge.
Are you an expert in or ignorant of X? logic, sociology, civil engineering, game theory, systems theory, climatology, geology, physics, energy, political science...
Knowledge is Power and I have it! But does Gawd have truth?
Your seem confused and it shows in your posts. I asked a simple and you couldn't answer it. Everyone can clearly see this. So, what can you say in defense of yourself here now.
Please try to answer clearly!
If you don't answer then it will be clear that really you have no argument or evidence to support such an argument.
NOW, who is ignorant GAWD???
I did answer your question, quite clearly.
I will however be even more exact. Since the question of "Ignorant?" is a non sequitor, you are failing to make any rational sense. The question of "who is ignorant" is most exactly everyone; because nobody can know EVERYTHING.
Now, i did answer your question, because by pointing out that the question is relevant to specific information sets, the point is well made. The question in order to be actually sane has to be "who is ignorant of >X example" The question is meaningless without a specific qualifier.
So quit pestering me and asking me questions twice.
You were in fact answered the first time.
BTW. this is not the place for you to reality test me. i deliver the reality tests and i pass or fail everyone else. Get the relationship straight.
Does anyone have decipher code for what Gawd tells us?
I am still not following how you are still not a commie revolution, you want to silence the opposition, censor the media, and your going to create a "genuinely egalitarian and ethical society." You are very hateful too, and I am supposed to trust you and your kind to create a utopia, do you really read what your writing. Who is the ignorant one? It is laughable how naiively evil your beleifs truly are. I don't want to control anyone or censor the medial, you can protest all you want, it is entertaining, we are lucky that you people are considered a joke and nothing will come of all your whining. Because people with your beleifs were the worst butchers in history.
How are we a commie revolution? Because some evil pundit said so?
How ar we trying to silence the opposition? if so, how would your posts have lasted? Get real, compared to any republican site all of ows is transparent and allows trolling.
You calling me hateful is a joke. I'm fed up with fucktards and trolls. I don't hate them, they just disgust me. I actually love them, but they need help.
My kind? My "kind"? i don't have a kind.
I'm a lone wolfs lone wolf.
How naive and evil whose ideas are? You are calling us commies because you are ignorant, and naive, and have been sold THAT ideology as a means to invalidation, which makes everything about your interaction both two dimensional and pre programmed, but you have the gall and audacity and the ego and the pride and SHIT to IMAGINE you are somehow morally superior and that you know better than we do and that WE are naive and don't get it? LOL?
I don't have beliefs. I have knowledge. You have a belief system and you never even bothered to check your facts after being programmed by the con scam repugnicon offices of lie.
You are TRYING to control and censor and lie right now, telling us we are commies when we are not, telling us we are naive , when you are, etc. all attempts at control.
People with whose beliefs?
i am not a commie. You calling us commies proves you have not in fact bothered to find out what we are about, and the worst butchers in history were fascist little christian genocide critters using the exact same form of moral superiority and group think which you are obvious a victim of.
So you have no business saying anything about any other group, you are still running the same operating system as evil fascist christian double think orwellian liars and con artists since the start of christianity.
You projecting "satan" at us or the "red flag" and just sticking to your guns that we are that does not make us that; it makes you a fucking nutjob moron ignorant pwn propaganda troll.
Oh my!! You have studied so that makes you an expert on utopia? Ever study any history asshole? If you had you wouldn't be so convinced of your superiority. So anyone that disaggrees is a troll? Yep. Typical dumbass.
Yes, I studied a lot of history, particularly world religious history.
And that knowledge does in fact convince me further of who i am.
You spun in and added "superiority" that was not my claim. The simple fact that i have expert level knowledge in 20 subjects is a simple fact it does not make me superior or inferior it just is.
Disagreeing with me is one thing. Uncanning a bunch of propaganda nonsense from the right wing is another. Real disagreements are born of two people working the problem. Fake disagreements are born of one person working the problem while the other tries to play head games. We ain't playing.
And what is this? tag team trolls? there are two of you?
Sock puppets? meat puppets? Troll club?
Your pathetic ad homs are humorous. I am in fact also an expert on utopia, since you seem to have the urge to go there.
You are in fact a BS con scam head game troll, who is too fucking ignorant to understand that studying utopia in systems and game theory would not mean per sey that i espouse specific ideals.
But yeah, i think we can do better than a fascist corporate oligarchy protected by con scam dupe pwn trolls like yourself.
https://www.facebook.com/groups/163532010364963/
And Having studied Civil Engineering and Sociology, I do know how to build a more egalitarian civilization. Your just pissed off because you and your demonic pundit team don't.
So if I study Civil Engineering and sociology then I am qualified to build Utopia? Hooray! How easy! Please teach us master! I had no idea that EVERYBODY that has studied those subjects could have built an egalitarian society but didn't were just waiting for YOU! Your ego is amazing.
AND systems theory, AND Game theory, AND Architecture, AND geology, AND Materials Science, AND Physics, AND Permaculture, AND Advanced Ergonomics...
You trolling me means nothing. I don't have an ego. You attacking me only proves you and these others have no point and no integrity.
All the dem trolls come out of the wood work all at once. Big surprise there.
You spinnin gmy words to try to make it sound like i said things i didn't? golden classic proof you are a game playing asshole evil basterd troll.
Add you to my list.
Please keep posting.......
So how will you build this society you are so qualified to build? What will you do to people that want no part of it?
i won't do anything to people that won't want any part of it. What will actually happen is everyone will want a part of it. but anyone who doesn't can hang out in some tired old 2oth century city and rot inside of it.
How will i build that society? One step at a time, first virtually, then physically, so the first thing is to get everyone involved in a consensus process style science knowledge driven exploration of all the problems and solutions to those problems.
Really, pearls to swine here. Answering you is a waste of my time, links have been provided.
https://www.facebook.com/groups/163532010364963/
Okay. A virtual society. What about the people that don't have a computer? And believe it or not a lot of people don't.
since its only a rough draft, and a process, they get included later.
OR, at GA, we can form affinity groups with central persons with computers.
IE; network non computer users with computer users.
In all honesty and despite my earlier mockery I find this interesting.
awesome, so... get on the wiki, make a page, and we will iron out some details and then come back and report with a thread?
============
OccupyThiswiki Flier
We would like to announce the Grand Opening of the Occupythiswiki.org Website. It is and will continue forever to be under construction, but there is now more than enough structure to organize and facilitate other efforts.
We would like to invite you there as a participant, and this is VERY important, PLEASE come to the wiki and become a Participant, or find people with whom you can network who have internet Access and get them to come to the Wiki to represent your end of the Network, and to keep you plugged into the process, and information regarding what is going on there.
This Wiki is CRUCIAL to the meaningful evolution of our species, It is CRUCIAL to human survival beyond this Century, and it is HOW all of WE can ever hope to give full and meaningful attention to the very LARGE NUMBER OF IMPORTANT ISSUES.
Please then, Consider what A General Assembly does for us. It is evolutionary, it is consensus and community building, it is 5 or ten minutes for you to speak live and in person and eye to eye and heart to heart with other people about the issue that matters to you. This is evolutionary, this is powerful, this is how we bring hundreds of years of knowledge thats being held back and hidden back from behind the veil; However, what we all know is that our personal important issue NEEDS MORE THAN THAT. It needs new laws written on its behalf. It needs open source research. It needs open source problem solving and democratic, consensus driven, direct democracy fueled problem solving process. If we gave each sub issue its own time and space to resolve inside of a GA, that would take WEEKS, or MONTHS or EVEN YEARS to iron out in a GA, PER ISSUE. How do we expand direct democracy fast enough, how do we accelerate direct democracy till its smooth as greased lightning instead of feeling stuck? How do we all come away from the GAs of next year feeling like our issue has been actually listened to and heard and resolved and addressed by the masses, instead of feeling like our own personal issue has been more or less ignored while some ego driven internal oligarch pressed ahead with organizing tens of thousands of people to do anything other than the WORK on the INTELLECTUAL LEVEL that CONSTRUCTS a REVOLUTION by means of a PARADIGM SHIFT... Instead of Demonstrating ourselves silly; But achieving still next to nothing and certainly not an end to Corporate Oligarchy, which has its plan to Co-opt the movement and make it work for the ELITES and oligarchs.
Please Consider carefully HOW we will build the NEW POSSIBLE WORLD. More important than HOW we will protest or WHERE, is the more fundamental Question of What does OUR NEW WORLD of DEMOCRATIC and CIVILIZED society Look like,(??!??) in terms of ITS ANSWERS and SOLUTIONS to EVERY high order problem. Only protesting but not doing that intellectual work, we can fail to have a revolution. The right order of the revolution should have been, First get mass educated, first form a new political party, first call for an article 5 Constitutional convention, and THEN once the message is 10,000 pages long and crystal clear , edited by ten thousand people with one person actually authoring a single page... about their core important issue to them...
THEN You'd take to the streets, THEN you'd start protesting, THEN you'd start occupying. The Occupy Movement put the cart before the horse. Okay, well, On a moving along and clear and present and how do we fix it note then, How do we DO THE WORK and get the Cart and horse in the RIGHT ORDER.???
There is a Giant Dam created by republican and democrat propaganda war dumble down and oligarchic control and intentional damage they have done to our so called educational system. 200 years of social and civil intellectual progress is being held back by 200 years of lies, spin doctoring, dumble down, and the simple meta function of keeping the public ignorant.
If you want then ONE SINGLE METHOD by which to END THE GAME. STOP BEING IGNORANT. Tell everyone and tell the world and stop running from the work, and crack open 1001 textbooks as a mob and then learn and only AFTER you have knowledge, TRY? TO USE KNOWLEDGE, not OPINION, to work and solve the problems. Everyone has to let go of their opinions, of their pet issues, of their biases, of their agendas, of their team sport ISMS and SCHISMS which are the bread and circuses THIS holy roman cathar empire uses to keep us divided and conquered and forever sequestered away from intellectual and thus spiritual Enlightenment.
Sheldon (gawd-of-fruit) really needs to get a girlfriend.
Please to tell me Mr.I've Studied The Assorted Sciences To An Expert Level ( whatever the fucking means) how you will bring about this Utopian society.
http://occupythiswiki.org/wiki/Process_WorkShops
In short form... about like that..
of course i have tons more materials, but this is new revamped and tailored for the occupy movement.
http://issuepedia.net/index.php?title=Main_Page
another very much more detailed effort, same thing.
The predicted response will of course be petty attacks, and you won't bother to read it...
but people reading us will see you as the troll and me as the guy with the solutions, so, i win.
Keep telling yourself that.
Oh, so you think that you know what is best for people? Douche.
yes, it is my job to educate you, ad hom junkie. this is you" finding me"? oh, it hurts... oh.. oh.. pleeeeease.. don't hurt me any more... ....
I figured you out and flushed this turkey. you are a con scam co-opter trying to run a co opt con scam and this is meant to intimidate me.
Its not working.
every place you "find " me; you are exposed.
I know what is best for people. That they actually bother to self educate before trying to solve problems with opinions. That we meet human needs instead of operate by greed, and that we operate via ethics instead of minus them.
Yeah, i know that cuts you out. sucks to be you.
Oh no! Ignore mr. Puff! He doesn't recognize your sheer educated genius like I do!
"First, I have been here since the start of this online, i was probably one of the voices that spurred adbusters to even think of the idea in the first place, I have posted here in length pages deep hours on end and So if you have been present with that you know i have been here hard core for this. Second, I'm right about everything, and unless occupy movement listens its going to fail."
Ha Ha Ha Ha.....You're an ASSDOUCHE.
yes, it is my job to educate you, ad hom junkie. this is you" finding me"? oh, it hurts... oh.. oh.. pleeeeease.. don't hurt me any more... ....
I figured you out and flushed this turkey. you are a con scam co-opter trying to run a co opt con scam and this is meant to intimidate me.
Its not working.
every place you "find " me; you are exposed.
I know what is best for people. That they actually bother to self educate before trying to solve problems with opinions. That we meet human needs instead of operate by greed, and that we operate via ethics instead of minus them.
Yeah, i know that cuts you out. sucks to be you.
http://occupythiswiki.org/wiki/THE_99%25_POLITICAL_PARTY
you're really a copy and paste kind of guy now aren't you.
it must be from all that floppy and paste getting sprayed on your face.
got you kinda riled up, eh little piggy?
how's that educating goin?
are you going to ask me to be one of your myspace friends?
you have only yourself riled up. Thanks for giving me all sorts of new places to post the link to the 99 percent party, and thanks for outing yourself a dem party troll whos here to stalk, threaten, intimdiate, head game, and try to control anyone who doesn't go along with your co-opt con scam.
http://occupythiswiki.org/wiki/THE_99%25_POLITICAL_PARTY
For someone with an IQ of 180, you sure repeat yourself a lot. It's Saturday and it's time for my bath, time for my bath, time....
Your 15 minutes are up, spanky. Now go start that third party just like you STARTED OCCUPY WS! Ha. You have historical hubris little man.
while trolling little parasites like you were probably posting nasty ad homs to woo your live stream hos over the internet, people like me were fighting tooth and nail against corporate oligarchy, long before OWS ever started. Without people like me there to carry those torches for twenty years, there would be no movement. And without me HERE to explain to the anarchists and communists and capitalists and in general ignorant population what the real facts are, its probable that occupy could not have gone viral.
I fielded entire troll legions in order to make it work, and my memes were adopted by the movement as a whole because they had no better answer.
Hubris? i know my own power and my own value.
And i know that you are here to subvert and co opt this movement for the dem party, and that you are an evil person who will otherwise use evil tactics including stalking, harassment, and intimidation to accomplish that.
I just personally like to be dined and wined before I get FUCKED.
Seriously I'm sick of this bullshit war, I'm sick of this bullshit deficit, I'm sick of the liar politicians, I'm sick of having our education and health constantly threatened and I'm sick of these greedy fucks that pretend that their shit doesn't stink.
tl;dr: RAAAAAGEEE!
Yes, let us occupy here!
http://occupywallst.org/forum/make-a-stand-join-the-clan/
The Revolution starts here!
You can evict protestors but you cannot evict an idea.
America reached a tipping point in 2011 and the grass roots citizens in every state, red and blue, said ENOUGH.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nt9d2iwSBMc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nVljZ35Jahg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ePoKwgL6NUM
This movement will not stop until our elected "representatives" start representing us.
And you can start here:
http://occupywallst.org/forum/make-a-stand-join-the-clan/
The Revolution starts here!
The problems in the U.S. will continue to get worst and our leaders know this and that is why they are allowing a military budget imposed on its citizens that will react to it.
You must first occupy your own mind -
only then will you be able at identify your enemies
only then will you know, by the form of their moves,
how best to occupy their every thought and deed.
Yeah, Occupy will only grow stronger when people see that circumstances continuously get worse, economically or otherwise. Add that to all these unconstitutional laws, and i think the movement will only grow.
Where is the straw that will break the collective camel's back? Much respect for all those out there on the front lines and on the/in the streets.
Yes, but can you not see that all your your time is being spent fighting your city's officials? The attention is not on your message, but on the confrontations. I am not trying to be a downer, but this isn't doing anything.
on the contrary, it's the clashes with city officials and enforcers which are bringing attention to the movement. An average person has a better chance of hearing about the movement with what is currently going on. If they hear about it, then they have the opportunity to learn what it's all about. What occupy wall street is doing is bringing harsh realities to light. Regardless of the bias in reporting on the movement the truth is still there. Bringing that truth to light is what this is all about and so OWS has so far been wildly successful and will likely continue to be more so going forward.
What kind of attention?
See below. this is very true. better find some respectable people to represent the movement or you will lose support. even my pot smoking liberal friends in their late forties and early fifties, of which I am all but pot smoking, are disliking what they are seeing in the parks. they are seeing the same little Jack asses who spray paint on their buildings in their communities and "spare some change" them on their way home from working all day to earn the money to pay for their humble abodes. not a single person interviewed in my town's OWS encampment was from here - they were all "travelers." they've spray painted up and down the streets from the train tracks to the tents, directing their pals where to go. thank God they got booted yesterday. the one person arrested was from another state.
"If they hear about it, then they have the opportunity to learn what it's all about."
Creating an opportunity doesn't mean it will be taken. You can lead a horse to water, but you cannot make him drink.
Most people see the footage, read the signs, hear the yelling, and think "Well duh....none of us like how the world is today, but acting like hippies and criminals isn't helping anyone." The people who vote for their city officials, and LIKE them, and who know and love someone who works in law enforcement see OWS disrespecting and annoying those people and it MAKES THEM MAD. It makes them reject you and your movement outright. It makes them LESS and LESS interested in learning more about you OR supporting you.
Check the poll numbers. The numbers indicate that while more and more people are becoming aware of you, they like you less and less.
If you have to "RE-occupy" something then you lost it in the first place.