Forum Post: The Myth of the Overpaid Public Worker
Posted 11 years ago on March 13, 2013, 9:42 a.m. EST by GirlFriday
(17435)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement
The real issue—as about 60 percent of Illinois voters said in a Public Policy Polling survey in early February—has been Illinois politicians’ decision to borrow and postpone paying its pension obligations. The state's problems could be solved if politicians had the gumption to put in place a structurally adequate, progressive tax system that fairly and fully pay for public needs.
Full disclosure: AFSCME is a sponsor of In These Times.
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Public workers are decent hard working Americans trying to provide for their families.
The 1% have effectively pitted taxpayers against their own "class" mates with phony arguments or waste and laziness. We can't let the 1% create a wedge between any groups of workers.
Important post.
In compliment
http://www.nationofchange.org/facts-make-it-clear-public-workers-and-unions-are-not-overpaid-1340630671
Rather than trying to reduce public sector pay, industry leaders should be addressing wage inequality in the private sector by bringing employee compensation closer to the level warranted by 30 years of productivity growth
Exactly.
Public workers & their unions have often led the way on improved worker conditions.
It is a natural process. We must protect these jobs, because We ALL benefits from their success.
We have people that are in there seventies that were originally screwed on their pensions and are facing it again. The workers paid into the pension-much. On top of this are the proposed changes to Medicare.
Pension theft is a most disgusting betrayal.
And pensions got beat up by the 1%'r 2008 crash. The resulting great recession has put more and more pressure on them.
Some Illinois upd on their pension shenanigans.
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/opinion/editorials/ct-edit-sec-20130313,0,3082543.story
That is exactly it. Well, for years prior to it they failed to fund it, just like in other states, and it isn't the fact the public workers dropped the ball.
This is intentionally, willfully screwing over people.
I blame the corp 1% who crashed the world economy and targeted the public state pension investments!
Then the puppets of those corps pushed through cuts to state budgets and forced all sorts of anti employment, anti labor, anti pension policies.
And then finally of course the fraudulent theft by individual little men.
Greedy 1% bastards.
I blame the elected officials primarily. I have no problem nailing Wall Street but this right here? This is elected officials that care more about reelection then they do about the people that elected them and the people that work for them.
Secondly, I blame the people for not paying attention and then falling for the line of crap again.
Thirdly, and now moving into first place, I blame the twisted cockroaches that are paid to spread disinformation on the subject.
The guilty should all pay.
I agree.
Whew! That was close.
Testify - astounding productivity fueling unprecedented growth. Rewarded by employer betrayal of employee.
Illinois isn't a very good example to use. Taxes there are already among the highest in the country. If they raise them much more, they'll crush the life out of people and drive both people and businesses out. The reason the politicians have been lying to people is that if they had been honest about what the real cost was, the public wouldn't have gone along. So they lied, and kicked the can down the road.
Why not? I could have, as I have in the past, inserted California and New Jersey instead of Illinois. The same actions were taken. They lied because they could. They lie, now, because they can.
That I cannot disagree with. They are all bad examples, for all the same reasons. And they all lie.
The public is not quite as dumb as the corps and the politicians would have them. The truth is always good.
Well, the shit is going to hit the fan pretty quickly in some of these places. It will be interesting to see how the public reacts.
If people think public workers, like teachers in Chicago, are over paid.... they need to understand the truth... and that is everyone else is just underpaid in comparison. Taken advantage of by a corporate takeover that has helped create massive inflation and stagnant wages.
Yep - not over paid - everyone ( most everyone ) else is underpaid.
Yep and next year prices will rise again.
Thanks fed run by banksters.
Thanks to no limits on prices of goods feeding the greed of the corpoRATists to take out as much from the economy as they can.
Thanks to no limits on wage disparity.
Thanks to not tying income to inflation.
and and and and and and
Simply put the Corporate takeover gives no fucks for community and the future. It's all thought about in short term. These corporations don't understand that mechanization and outsourcing removes consumers from the consumer based economy, and when then they do it even more due to the loss of consumers. They don't understand that printing trillions without creating real wealth, in the name of saving corrupt banks that have colluded to raise prices in commodities in the names of futures trading profits and etc... is destroying the economy. And all the while the politicians they put in power are helping them do it. We have state governments selling out public aspects for short term profits to solve this years and next years budget problems but they cause long term losses for future budgets.
and and and and... I forgot there is no "simply put" when the corruption is this deep.
LOL - no there is no simply put - unless you leave it to a couple of words and hope that others understand those words or that they will educate themselves on those words - LIKE - GREED & INSANITY - and then apply them to the current actions/inaction's of government and business.
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How about a paradigm shift? since we are not talking about entitlement programs and such where to mention "business model" is forbidden, let's look at these hiring programs as business decisions. Simply put, if a state does not have enough money, then cuts have to be made someplace. I am not familiar with specific state pension programs, but I think they are better deals compared to, say a small business employee in the private sector.
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[-] 1 points by gocjess (0) from Redcliff, AB 2 minutes ago
A whole lot of tears.A great deal of fear.Someone will always cry in their beer.A fat girl sits at her computer screen stufing her face with ice cream.Wake me up this is a bad dream.Fat girls complain while eating cookies and cream. ↥twinkle ↧stinkle reply permalink
So, I guess you should cut down on the junk food then and go for a walk?
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No, you crawl because you are a cockroach. It's what you do.
There isn't anything to be defensive about. Wrong girl. Tell Jart, I said hey.
Why do you resort to name calling?Jart said he can't take any more of your crying.He thought it so boring having to deal with your petty complaints.He feels that you may be on a sugar binge.
Why are you a cockroach? I haven't talked to Jart in quite awhile. She posted a thread and that was it.
I prefer to bitch slap you myself.
A fat girl sits at her computer screen stuffing her face with ice cream. Someone wake me up this is a bad dream.No,it's a bad joke apease that fat bitch and give her a large coke.
Like I said, stop eating junk food and get the fuck up off your ass.
I do not have an ass.At least not the caliber of what you haul around.
Pffttt.........you're all ass.
Wrong girl.
What does that mean?And why can you not stay on topic?Jart is worried about your sugar level.He thinks you may be pre diabetic.Have you taken all your meds today?You may have forgot the blue pill.That is the one that calms you down.Helps you stay focused.On topic.We should be doing somthing to help the poor workers.That is the least somone can do that sits on there ass eating twinkies all day.I am not saying you per say.
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What happened little cockroach? Did you get lost?
Did the fat girl that sits at home on the occupy site.Have somthing to say?Get off your ass,pay some attention to your kid.And learn how to cook somthing that does not come from Hostess.
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I am retierd.Ride horses all day.That is how I know that you are a real Horse's ass.
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No you can not slurp any more buckets today.The rest are for the livestock.
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HOHOHOHEEHEheee OMG - choke - cough - gasp - that was a real imaginative kick in the ass. Love it.
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aAHhahahahaahahahaahaheheheehehe - you are on a roll Girl
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But, I'm not fat, you dumb fucking cunt.
If you say so.But you do resemble a cow from behind.
When you soil the site's reputation with profanity it means the troll has won. You are not able to control your emotions. You are the easier target for a troll on this site. Be more like yoda. Use good to fight evil. Stay away from the dark side.
I really think you adore bestiality a trifle too much.
What does "trifle "mean?
I do know what livestock sounds like!
Anything else, you fucking Koch whore? You can't seem to ever get off your knees, can you? Don't have it in you. Not able to.
You're a cockroach.
So rude.Where do we send the welfare twinkies?
In fact, that must really piss you off. You're fat, a shitty poet, a whine bag and an entire conversation taking place that you are doing whatever you can to prevent. Sucks to be you.
Where did you go? You're afraid this type of post will actually have people discussing something. Gee, you don't like that. Do you?
You are so disfigured that having your face blown off would make you more cute.
You waste everyone's time with these types of replies. It's best to stick to serious discussions and ignore the trolls. Why play their game and end up soiling the site's reputation as a result? It just means that have won.
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Sigh.... schoolyard profanity soils this forum.
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You have something against gays and/or fat people? "buttfucked fatass" would make more sense. We should remain logical, even when insulting others.
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The best part about you is that you're both dumb and ugly. That's probably why nobody likes you.
You really like sandbox insults.
I enjoy bitch slapping your dumb ass in whatever form that takes. You are a sock of a sock. Nothing more and nothing less.
Groundhog day.
Exactly.
Is this guy an ex of yours, perhaps? "Nobody cares even a little if you suffocate and die."
[-] 1 points by Builder (4063) 0 minutes ago
Is this guy an ex of yours, perhaps? "Nobody cares even a little if you suffocate and die." ↥twinkle ↧stinkle permalink
Nope
Okay. Sounds personal.
Happy headhunting, GF.
The problem with your method is not that it attempts to "bitch slap" me, it's that it soils the reputation of Occupy in the process. If you want to "bitch slap" me or the many other users you attack in the same childish manner, why not use private messages? You're essentially spamming this forum with the crudest forms of sandbox insults. Why would someone who cares about Occupy do such a thing?
[-] 1 points by trulyamazingOWStruthseer (8) 0 minutes ago
I never claimed moral superiority, and it's not something I aim to do. Debates are not "won" with moral superiority. They are "won" with well formed arguments and solid logic which permits us to inch ourselves a bit closer to the truth. Morals are often subjective.
Your comment implies that moral superiority is an essential ingredient in a proper debating method. I think you're sadly mistaken here, and suggest you educate yourself on the purpose of debates, and the proper methods which should be used while debating.
Unfortunately, you won't accomplish much on this site if you are here to establish your moral superiority. ↥twinkle ↧stinkle permalink
You're a trashy fucktard, and may your eyebrows fall off.
You're a useless whorebag, and may your roof cave in.
The problem with your method is that you can claim no moral superiority.
Now, go fuck your brother.
I never claimed moral superiority, and it's not something I aim to do. Debates are not "won" with moral superiority. They are "won" with well formed arguments and solid logic which permits us to inch ourselves a bit closer to the truth. Morals are often subjective.
Your comment implies that moral superiority is an essential ingredient in a proper debating method. I think you're sadly mistaken here, and suggest you educate yourself on the purpose of debates, and the proper methods which should be used while debating.
Unfortunately, you won't accomplish much on this site if you are here to establish a moral superiority.
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Soiling the site with childish profanity plays into the hands of trolls. You are their accomplice.
Fuck you very much, you crab infested cock gobbler.
aAHhahahahaahahahaahaheheheehehe - Koch also
Why do you hurt us all? Why do you litter the posts and comments of this forum with childish insults and name calling? Are you not passed the tender age of 12? We must remain civil and demonstrate to new readers that we are serious debaters. Let's attract intellectuals, not profanity using children.
Nobody really cares at all that you're a useless pillow humper, there are many other reasons to despise you.
Despising me isn't the issue. Everyone here is welcome to despise me as much as they want. I'm wondering why you want to soil Occupy's reputation to accomplish the goal of having others here despise me. Is it worth it? Really?
I don't despise you.
You've only been here for 24hrs or so.
So let's see if you are issue oriented.
How about some comments on union busting?
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Fuck "the intellectuals" !!! ONLY the kids matter here !! Anyone over 30 had our chance & we fucked up already !
Gorra admit ... she may give in to toilet mouth occasionally but she's funny with it and has more balls than most here, lol.
Chill TF out everyone lol & : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TR5Qo4Pnc94 :-) & further consider ...
pax ...
You create a false dichotomy: under 30 vs intellectual.
Certainly, intellectuality requires the acquiring of knowledge, concepts, etc... which necessitates time and energy, and so an intellectual's thinking will mature with age. Nonetheless, I have met many intellectuals under the age of 30, and many people over 30 who were, at best, very dubious thinkers.
I consider many of the youths who began Occupy as true intellectuals. The ones who began this very website, jart and zoe, are such people. Although I disagree with jart's piece on stopping the use of consensus, I do recognize a sharp mind behind the article. It's also worth noting that most of the youths who began Occupy are university students and many are well versed in anarchist theory having read the works of Thoreau, Graeber, etc... and having knowledge of the work and life of anarcho-syndicalists like Emma Goldman. I met a few who knew economic theory quite deeply.
You should not make judgements before having met these people. They are youths, but they are also intellectuals. You certainly should not undermine them by calling them kids.
I also disagree with the idea that only the youths under the age of 30 can help create a better world. We must all share in the endeavor, from children to the elderly. We all have a part to play. On this note, I'm happy to say that many talks which occurred at Occupy were by older scholars who were invited by the youths you call kids. These "kids" were smart enough to realize that they could learn from the experience of those who have seen more days. Likewise, older people can feel energized by having young fresh minds full of energy and desire anchoring Occupy.
Furthermore, profanity does not attract the younger generation. The expressions GF is posting on this site, expressions like buttfucking fatass, dumpster cunt, cock gobbler, etc... do nothing but hurt this website and, as an extension, Occupy in general. It's not something we should encourage. She's helping the very trolls who want to tarnish Occupy's reputation. Many called us Occutards - which is a horrible term as it denigrates the mentally handicapped by coining them as retards. Using profanity learned in the sandbox gives these trolls more ammunition. In effect, GF is a troll's best accomplice. She does their job for them. At the very least, she facilitates their trolling. The best response is always to ignore trolls. If you decide to engage, you should only do so if you are willing to attack their arguments with strong logic, and well-formed counter arguments. Logical fallacies always make us look bad.
Also, many terms GF uses attack the very minorities Occupy wants to help. Buttfucking fatass not only deems a fat ass as being bad which essentially denigrates fat people, it's also problematic vis-à-vis people known to engages in anal sex like the homosexual community. Also, I'm not sure how a fatass can be a buttfucker, Buttfucked fatass seems more logical.
You are doing a disservice to Occupy by defending her profanity. It saddens me that you think these insults are funny, especially since they can really hurt the feelings of minority groups.
[-] 0 points by trulyamazingOWStruthseer (8) 9 minutes ago
Close my mind about what? About your idea that using profanity helps Occupy in some way? I am probably one of the most open-minded individuals on this forum. Provide solid arguments as to how littering this forum with insults such as Buttfucking Fatass help Occupy and I am willing to reassess my position on the matter. ↥twinkle ↧stinkle permalink
I know you're a miserable loser and all, but holy lord in heaven, go fuck yourself.
You are nothing more than a cockroach. That's it. You lack the capacity for intellectual critical thinking skills. What you thought would be fun is to tag team. Wasn't that fun? I thought it was fun. Do you want some more?
You can claim no moral superiority. You are a fucking wanna be douchebag.
I use arguments, and well formed logic. You use logical fallacies, most often crude forms ad hominem once learns in a sandbox. The site's readers will see this for themselves.
I never did. I only posed arguments to defend my position. I believe truth comes from proper debate. The site's readers will decide which ideas are best and which should be implemented in practice. Perhaps most of them will decide that using logical fallacies and sandbox insults is the way to create the better world. Still, I will disagree with them. I believe we can only create a better world through proper debate.
[-] 1 points by trulyamazingOWStruthseer (8) 1 minute ago
Close my mind about what? About your idea that using profanity helps Occupy in some way? I am probably one of the most open-minded individuals on this forum. Provide solid arguments as to how littering this forum with insults such as Buttfucking Fatass help Occupy and I am willing to reassess my position on the matter. ↥twinkle ↧stinkle permalink
Keep crying. You keep thinking that if you cry enough that you will somehow become legit.
Wrong answer, dingleberry.
You are nothing more than a cockroach.
[-] 1 points by trulyamazingOWStruthseer (8) 1 minute ago
You attack the proposer, not the arguments. This is a logical fallacy. It does not matter if someone here users 1000 different usernames. What matters are the ideas. What we have a comment boxes which we can fill up with ideas. That's all.
If you find my ideas lame and useless, don't reply. If you disagree and find it worth your time to pose counter-arguments, do so in proper fashion. Using ad hominem only diminishes yourself as a poster and soils the reputation of this site. It accomplishes nothing at all. It certainly does not help use create a better world. Not only do you waste your time, you hurt Occupy in the process.
Your comments should have pertinence. I write to you to show our readers that logical fallacies hurt us. That's a clear goal. I'm not sure what your goal is when you go around this forum insulting many various users with insults you learned around the sandbox at your primary school. ↥twinkle ↧stinkle permalink
You completely close your mind and do nothing but shout, "Anathema, anathema, anathema!" so that by your own voice you are judged mad.
Close my mind about what? About your idea that using profanity helps Occupy in some way? I am probably one of the most open-minded individuals on this forum. Provide solid arguments as to how littering this forum with insults such as Buttfucking Fatass help Occupy and I am willing to reassess my position on the matter.
[-] 0 points by trulyamazingOWStruthseer (8) 0 minutes ago
I use arguments, and well formed logic. You use logical fallacies, most usually ad hominem. The site's readers will see this for themselves.
I never did. I only posed arguments to defend my position. I believe truth comes from proper debate. The site's readers will decide which ideas are best and which should be followed. Perhaps most of them will decide that using logical fallacies and sandbox insults is the way to create the better world. Still, I will disagree with them. I believe we can only create a better world through proper debate. ↥twinkle ↧stinkle permalink
No, you use sock puppets and you write a wall o' shit that says nothing. You are a cockroach. A troll and a failure in just about everything that you do.
You attack the proposer, not the arguments. This is a logical fallacy. It does not matter if someone here users 1000 different usernames. What matters are the ideas. What we have a comment boxes which we can fill up with ideas. That's all.
If you find my ideas lame and useless, don't reply. If you disagree and find it worth your time to pose counter-arguments, do so in proper fashion. Using ad hominem only diminishes yourself as a poster and soils the reputation of this site. It accomplishes nothing at all. It certainly does not help use create a better world. Not only do you waste your time, you hurt Occupy in the process.
Your comments should have pertinence. I write to you to show our readers that logical fallacies hurt us. That's a clear goal. I'm not sure what your goal is when you go around this forum insulting many various users with insults you learned around the sandbox at your primary school.
You are so repelling that having your face torn off by a bear would make you more beautiful.
You shouldn't use the computer when mommy isn't around.
It's too bad you will never get rid of that rash. Maybe you shouldn't have been such a skank.
You speak of wisdom.
But we must move past the dominance of a controlled forum.
Alas we all can not sit at home and make up bogus forums,then
insult those that opinions differ from ours.
So it is not the trolls that disrupt,but the trolls that want to control our narative.
The insults start when we do not comply with the given narative and escslate when GF does not reason.It is an insideous troll.
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Almost - almost - but "you" are the troll/shill/sellout/scumbag/etc - as you talk about a different forum - but fail to follow through by leaving here and creating one - why - because you never had any intention to - you just like to drag out your BS as a disruption here - no wonder individuals get sick of you and only comment to you derogatorily - they may as well because that is all you are worth.
So - is this your new attack to defame to discredit?
You do not comment on the topic of the post - you do not lambast the socks(?) that opened the attack on GF - no instead you blame GF for being attacked and getting righteously pissed off and going after her attackers.
Why do you not go away and take all of your socks with you?
So fat girls like cute?
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Sounds like you are talkin a might bit about sex with animals.what is on your mind?
Remember that time when all of your friends went to that really awesome party? No? That's because you have no friends.
LOF'nL
Do you? That's all you.
You should change your handle to fatty Friday.Or french fry fatty friday.How does fat fuck friday sound?Hey triple F.
Actually, what we should do is call you dumb. fucking wanna be security cunts out for what you are. Pieces of skanky ass opportunist sorry pieces of shit. You are the biggest fucking piece of trailer park trash that we have seen to date. You cum guzzling puke faced little bitch.
Tell us how you feel.Please do not hold back.Let your feelings pour out like that big gulp down your throat. Do you have to shower after you eat?
Nobody cares that you're a useless son of a bitch, there are a lot of other reasons to hate you.
That is just the sugar talking.I know you do not mean it.
By the time you discover how not to be a troll, it will be nearly three weeks too late.
Three weeks would be an improvement.
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It sounds like Fattie is a bit trifiled.To say the least you are of topic.You know those workers back in IL.Crushing news flash ,a fire at the twinkie factory.
It looks like your mouth caught on fire and your stepmother tried to put it out with a 12 gauge.
and daddy with an ax
Just how fucking mentally deficient are you, anyway? Your senselessness is simply ridiculous.
Yes well said.Coming from a woman that does not hold a job.Spends her whole day on OWS forum.And has a sugar problem.Acts as if she owns the place.Calls people names.Crys to the mods all the time.And is a fattie to boot.
Yep - I would have guessed you to be late by years - not weeks. Well - at least you own it.
Yep.No delusions of self import here.A man must know his limits.So it has been told to us by the empty chair guy.
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I'm sorry semen demon, I can't hear you over the sound of how dirty you are.
Makes a man wonder?
Yes,indeed it does.It is as we would say"range is clear no alibies".
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