Forum Post: The Movement WILL Fail...
Posted 13 years ago on Nov. 21, 2011, 9:18 p.m. EST by MrModerate
(13)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement
... unless we galvanize on a SINGLE issue. ONE. Not two, not a dozen. ONE issue. That issue is corporate lobbyists in Washington. This single issue is the Normandy invasion of the OWS movement. If we succeed in driving the moneyed interests out of our government then all the rest of the Gordian knot of corruption will unravel. Stop spreading our forces too thin, and instead focus like a laser on the most important issue. If we do this, then we will REALLY have the support of the 99%, including people from both the left and the right. It's time to take the fight from Wall Street to Washington. It's time to make a lasting change where it matters most. It's time to transform this nation from a dying neo-fascist empire into the stalwart of truth and democracy that it rightly should be. We can do this. We can do it together.
A constitutional Amendment to remove big money from politics. Tell your legislator,
"Remove big money from the political process or we will remove you from the political process"
This needs to go viral.
http://www.nycga.net/groups/political-and-electoral-reform/docs/amendment-28-to-the-constitution-of-the-united-states-of-america
“ARTICLE—
“SECTION 1. We the people do ordain and reestablish the rights protected by the Constitution of the United States to be the rights of natural persons.
“SECTION 2. The words people, person, or citizen as used in this Constitution do not include corporations, limited liability companies and other private entities established by the laws of any State, the United States, or any foreign state.
“SECTION 3. Such entities not identified as a “natural persons“ in SECTION 2. of this Amendment, shall be prohibited from making contributions or expenditures to, for or against, any candidate for public office or to, for or against, publicly elected official or to, for or against, any legislation before the Congress, the Senate or the people.
“SECTION 4. Nothing contained herein shall be construed to limit the people’s rights of freedom of speech, freedom of the press, free exercise of religion, freedom of association and all such other rights of the people, which rights are inalienable.”.
SECTIONS 2&4: how about unions? will this stop the AFL/CIO from interfering in politics that way they do now?
All groups created and/or governed by the state or federal or other authority.
"corporations, limited liability companies and other private entities" if the language can be so clearly spelled out in the cases of private businesses, I'd like to see more specific language clearly defining unions before I give my support.
Then I would have to put retail outlets, wholesale outlets, car dealership, automotive store because some could be large chains some could be sole proprietors.
These are all corporations, LLC, or private entities governed by the laws passed by the citizens through our representatives.
This includes Unions, PACs, Political Parties, Political Party Committees however you want to put. Every entity created and/or governed by the laws of our government. This includes everything.
A constitutional Amendment to remove money from politics. For decades now the corporations and special interests have had our "representatives" bought and paid for (both on the right and the left). Don't get distracted by the symptoms - we need to address the root cause. Concentrating our efforts on getting the money out of our politics is the best way we can create an environment in which further reforms can be realized. Until we end the current system of legalized bribery (campaign donations) and paid lobbying our politicians will continue to be the LAP DOGS of the corporations and special interests. What we need first and foremost is real, loop-hole free CAMPAIGN FINANCE REFORM!!!! If the corruption is not dealt with first, the chance of any other meaningful reforms becoming a reality is almost zero - the special interests will just use their money to buy votes and put forward bills that create loop-holes or otherwise twist the law in their favor. If we want our children to live in a country where there vote matters, we need to get the money out of our politics, otherwise they will increasingly become the 21st century version of the "landless peasant." Spread the word - End the LEGALIZED BRIBERY!!! CAMPAIGN FINANCE REFORM needs to be THE main goal of the protests!!!
Until the incestuous relationship between big business and the government is halted there can never and will never be a free America.
what about the incestuous relationship between Big Unions and Democrats?
Big unions are special interest groups and should not be allowed to buy off politicians either.
Getting outside money out of our politics is not only the most important issue in this country but it is also bipartisan and universally wanted.
Unfortunately I agree, if Getting money out isn't OWS core goal it will fail. But I do think they can continue to bring forth all of the other important factually based agendas many of them have but it must be under the core goal of Campaign Finance Reform. Achieve that and all of the other problems will be addressed and debated using only the facts. Including the corporate lobbyists problem.
Lets start a new movement dealing with that.
There's no way OWS will galvanize a single issue.
If that's what it takes then let's make it happen.
Yes, take the bull by the horns and get the money out of politics. Follow upt by Campaign Finance Reform and term limit reform.
I really do think that the money in politics bit is the keystone. It has corrupted our democratic processes deeply and there is currently no effective check & balance to rein it in. If the corporate interests could be removed or at least tempered significantly, our government would be more representative of the people it serves.
Part and parcel of that is the gridlock the two major political parties have on the selection process. We need a more open playing field. I can go to the store and choose from fifty different types of toothpaste, but come election time I get only A or B. There's nothing keeping this country locked in a two party system but the two parties themselves.
has to be the smartest thing I've read on this forum and I've read some pretty intelligent posts. All movements need a focal point from which many things change. Women's suffrage, civil rights, workers rights all started with a focal point that created generations of change. We must find that focus now and IMO that point of focus must be the wholesale corruption fostered by lobbyists in DC.
— adj
If you want to get the corporate lobbyists out of Washington, make lobbying a waste of their time and money: no corporate welfare and a lower tax rate with no loopholes. This solution also has the benefit of being constitutional.
see this... http://occupywallst.org/forum/a-movement-for-change/
There is no one problem.
There is no one solution to the multitude of problems we face.
The moment we seize a single issue is the moment we abandon all others.
We do not seek change from those in power, we seek to empower ourselves to create the change we want to see.
That is the only reason I ever came here... campaign finance (I stay and read now just because it's so damn funny).
You are absolutely right. This is an issue that could truly gather the support of the masses. And it's just one step, but it's a huge one.
agreed~ agreed agreed!
http://www.yankeesdaily.com/post/32860 I wrote about this on October 14th. It's the only thing to make your movement work.
The coporate lobbyists will find another way to "lobby". This post sounds like it came straight out of the democratic platform for the next election cycle; and it is even utilizing the fear tactic, interesting.
Since getting money out is a "dem" talking point does that make keeping money in a GOP talking point? The fact is both parties want to keep money in politics and the only way we will get the money out is to threaten their jobs! Occupy their townhall meetings. Occupy their campaign offices. Let them know we are awake now and their ride on the gravy train is over.
As a matter of fact, the republican appointees to the supreme court are the ones who in their ruling, ushered in the Citizen's United ruling so yes, keeping money in is a GOP talking point whether those idiots know it or not. Remember, Mitt said corporations are people too. And since the spineless democrats didn't fight the Citizen's United ruling they are just as bad. The only way their gravy train ends is if their asses are voted out of office. How does that happen? Well, maybe OWS can become a political party, have a nominating convention, get their candidates on state ballots and vote them in. Then they can go to washington, tear it down and start a new government.
The issue of "corporate personhood" is part and parcel of this bigger problem. A lawmaker that is elected instead of bought will oppose legislation that treats corporations as human beings. The reason that corporate personhood laws came about in the first place is because they were lobbied for by... corporations.
Your assumptions are completely unjustified. Rational people on both sides of the aisle agree that our so-called "representative democracy" passes laws that represent the corporate oligarchs, not the people. Likewise, both Democrats and Republicans are clearly in the pocket of big business. It might start with only one or two pieces of legislation, but once the ball gets rolling it'll be harder and harder for them to buy off politicians. As it currently stands, the laws that are coming through are only making it easier for them.
Which goes to show just how big that money is that is keeping the "easier for them" laws to continue coming through. These politician's have not been listening and are still not listening. They are going to need a much bigger jolt then people protesting at their town halls, or offices or DC. The level of revolt needed should be in direct proportion to the amount of money (oligarchs) we are fighting against.
All change must start with a single unifying moment or act that ignites widespread change. America is still the leader of the world and that moment will occur in this country and it will be sparked by the occupy movement.
Here is the issue:
http://www.occupywallst.org/forum/make-a-stand-join-the-clan/
The Revolution starts here!
"This principle applies also to the individual man in so far as he wants to achieve great goals. He, too, will be able to do this only in steplike sections, and he, too, will always have to unite his entire energies on the achievement of a definitely delimited task, until this task seems fulfilled and a new section can be marked out. Anyone who does not so divide the road to be conquered into separate stages and does not try to conquer these one by one, systematically with the sharpest concentration of all his forces, will never be able to reach the ultimate goal, but will be left lying somewhere along the road, or perhaps even off it. This gradual working up to a goal is an art, and to conquer the road step by step in this way you must throw in your last ounce of energy.
The very first prerequisite needed for attacking such a difficult stretch of the human road is for the leadership to succeed in representing to the masses of the people the partial goal which now has to be achieved,or rather conquered, as the one which is solely and alone worthy of attention,on whose conquest everything depends. The great mass of the people cannot see the whole road ahead of them without growing weary and despairing of the task. A certain number of them will keep the goal in mind, but will only be able to see the road in small, partial stretches, like the wanderer,who likewise knows and recognizes the end of his journey, but is better able to conquer the endless highway if he divides it into sections and boldly attacks each one as though it represented the desired goal itself. Only in this way does he advance without losing heart.
Thus, by the use of all propagandist means, the question of combating syphilis should have been made to appear as the task of the nation. Not just one more task. To this end, its injurious effects should have been thoroughly hammered into people as the most terrible misfortune, and this by the use of all available means, until the entire nation arrived at the conviction that everything-future or ruin-depended upon the solution of this question.
Only after such a preparation, if necessary over a period of years, will the attention, and consequently the determination, of the entire nation be aroused to such an extent that we can take exceedingly hard measures exacting the greatest sacrifices without running the risk of not being understood or of suddenly being left in the lurch by the will of the masses."
-- Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf ( http://www.crusader.net/texts/mk/mkv1ch10.html )
Question: does this longstanding political rule of the game still apply in a society with decentralized, relatively free communication (i.e. the Internet)?
The change needs to come next November. They are getting absolutely no where. They are wanting redistribution of wealth, which isnt going to happen. People work for their money, why should they give it away? They stage their biggest rally y...et on November 17th, and the flyers have pictures of tanks. Not sure if you've heard of N17, but its a greek terrorist group that formed after students in athens were killed by army tanks. They have a strong hatred for america, you wanna tell me these folks had no clue thoat they were planning the biggest activity yet on the day that N17 said they were gonna cause their destruction? I think not. Plus, occupy wall street has endorsements from the KKK, the Black panthers, Add busters, American Muslim association, Cair, Code pink and every other anti-semetic and bigoted organization. They want to ”share the wealth,” and ”Level the playing field” the last time this idea was this big was in the 60's in Cambodia. Not sure if you've heard of Pol Pot and the Khmer rouge, but they wanted to transform Cambodia into a rural, classless society in which there were no rich people, no poor people, and no exploitation. To accomplish this, they abolished money, free markets, normal schooling, private property, foreign clothing styles, religious practices. They wanted nobody to have any advantage over another. So, what did they do? They would go into villages and hold up signs that read, ”Who's hungry?” Then whoever help their hands up, they shot. They done this because they knew they could read and knew they were intelligent. There is a greater reason to this occupy wall street crap than people know, including the group of ignorant crybabies that are living in tent cities full of piss, shit, rape, robbery and disease. I have a strong feeling the Obama administration had something to do with it but i havent found any proof yet. I mean come on, it wasnt even started by these people, it was started by a canadian group, IN CANADA! It wasnt started by americans, this is where it differntiates itself from the civil rights movement who was started by black people, the womens rights movement who was started by women, and this has nothing to do with slavery. This ”system” has been the same for a long time and its not going to change. I would be willing to bet that probably 80% of these Occupy protestors voted for Obama, they got their change and it sucks. By the way, id like you to post the video of the protesters yelling at children as they were walking by trying to get to class. These were elementary school children. That is rediculous!
You are an obvious troll and saying "I reckon the system ain't gonna change" automatically eliminates any credibility you might have had.
because he speaks with Southern diction, he has no credibility? For someone named "Moderate" saying something like that, automatically eliminates any credibility you might have had.
Aside from the cute metaphors what is a "stalwart of truth and democracy"?