Forum Post: The more I study OWS, the more I believe the politicians are behind it.
Posted 13 years ago on Nov. 15, 2011, 7:52 p.m. EST by hchc
(3297)
from Tampa, FL
This content is user submitted and not an official statement
I have never seen a group of people, so large, and so upset, that are refusing to hold the politicians accountable for ANY of this mess. Its almost like mentioning Obama is no-no.
This is very disturbing guys. I really thought this may have been the start of something big, but ignoring half of our GovCorp problem is never going to get any change.
It will remain just a protest, and not a movement. I hope Im wrong, but the longer this goes on, and more reluctance I see to call out both parties, the more I think its been a set up.
i agree... ows should denounce both parties and admit that they are a big part of the problem because most politicians are controlled by their corporate donors...
we need to get rid of both parties. and support our own candidate for president... another term of obama is going to be almost as bad as if the reps win...
On a scale of 1-10, 1 being awesome and 10 being fascism....
Obama gets a 9.5 GOP candidate would prob finish term in 2016 with a 9.6
Im fuckin tired of ALL of them. And ya know what? Most of AMERICA is too, which is why I cant figure out why OWS doesnt fuckin jump on this. The momentum is now, the stove is hot...
Correct, here's a roadmap https://sites.google.com/site/the99percentdeclaration/
Of course politicians are accountable. Accepting the bribe is just as bad as giving it. They have the chance to make amends. If not, they should be replaced after the National General Assembly.
Dont waste your time waiting for ammends, these things dont go in reverse. Skip that step and get going before it is too late. Time is our biggest enemy.
I'm not saying to wait for it, I'm saying that they currently have it. Refusal to capitalize on the opportunity will cost them re-election. Assuming no other promising candidate comes along we will have to wait until after the NGA to know who will be running to represent us.
Could you spare some time to look at Sticks ideas and our conversation in the thread? Thanks. http://occupywallst.org/forum/an-open-letter-to-ows/#comment-362540
No candidates will come along, and if they are decent, the D/R establisment will not let them function in their party. Deadlines to file to be on the ballots are usually march. Time to kick it into high gear.
I repeat, we CANNOT wait until 2014. Our time is now. I am pushing Tampa as hard as possible on this, and making progress.
Patience. The Suffolk Resolves were penned in 1774. Man that must have been a long two years!
I dont think they were facing WWIII at the time
The Suffolk Resolves led to the Declaration of Independence which led to the the war of independence.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suffolk_Resolves
Right, but with that you were only fighting one enemy. Pretty soon, we are going to be fighting the politicians, the corporations, prob a few different countries, terrorists from around the globe, and most likely each other too. Thats a freakin mess never seen before.
Right, but they didn't have our arsenal: the internet, facebook and twitter! Ok I agree with you that time is of the essence, but petitioning the government for a redress of grievances is the 1st Amendment right, the legal way to go about this. Perhaps you need to clarify what you mean when you suggest we skip that step and "get going"
I mean to take your list, create intellegent solutions, and then start encouraging people to run on it.
WOW i actually found someone else who's heard about the NGA? cool! This forum is a pretty lonely place my friend ; )
I just got back from the UC Berkeley general assembly and left out of frustration. It is not a leaderless movement when a few people hog the mic (either the real one or through "mic check").
In real life I am quiet and try to be thoughtful, and don't thrive in huge groups like this. Everyone was insisting, "you have to be AT the general assemblies to be a part of this movement". No thank you, the internet is far move efficient for discussions. No repeating every 3-7 words, SOURCES, a voice for all, efficient voting. The internet is what enabled the arab spring, same with OWS. It's not perfect, but it IS where a lot gets done.
I have no problem with GAs, but these people do not represent the entire movement, and they should not claim to.
Thats interesting. They dont have a general stack?
Yeah, they have a stack, but you have to put some effort into it to get up there, and actually speaking. I think most people are a bit scared of public speaking.
Hence how we ended up with representatives for us in the current congress
Ditto.
I think your OP is quite valid. Whether or not this movement was started by some party, all parties (i.e. the powers that control both parties) are trying to take advantage of it. The left is co-opting it, the right is attacking it. Both sides are so comfortable with the bribes that they want to kill it. They could be "throwing themselves into the gears" of the machine that is OWS.
Then again, it is also likely that these facilitators don't know WTF they are doing. It takes some serious effort to organize 2000+ people events.
Denounce Obama and the ENTIRE congress, both parties, anyone affiliated with them. Watch your support grow like a tidal wave
::::::::Congressional Insider Trading Gone Wild::::::::
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/congressional-insider-trading-gone-wild
(TylerDurden of zerohedge) Back in May we penned, "Why A Hedge Fund Comprised Of Junior Congressional Democrats Should Outperform The Market By 9%" http://www.zerohedge.com/article/why-hedge-fund-comprised-junior-congressional-democrats-should-outperform-market-9 ...in which the simple conclusion was that insider trading is not only rampant in Congress, but completely unregulated, as it is perfectly legal for Congressional staffers to trade at their leisure on inside information: an exemption which the beta chasing 2 and 20 crowd on Wall Street would sell their first through fifth born to be granted, now that their glaring inability to generate alpha is laid out for all to see.
Tonight we were happy to see that 60 Minutes has finally brought this gross and criminal injustice to the general public, and we expect that Congress will promptly legislate itself into actually complying with laws meant for the mere mortals out there.
That said, we fully commiserate with the pathological excrement that makes up House of Representative these days: it is indeed a sad day when a Congressional member has to rely on honest work to make their millions as opposed to perfectly legal trading on inside information predicated upon laws that these very congress men and women legislate.
Something tells us all the world's banana republics are just staring at the US with sheer and utter amazement as layer after layer of the unprecedented depravity of American society is exposed for all to see.
From 60 Minutes - the part where Nancy Pelosi's face melts is 9:20 in. And speaking of Nancy Pelosi it may be time to revisit: " Moody's Leaked Again: Told Nancy Pelosi Will "Probably Not" Downgrade US Weeks Ago; Did Her Multi-Millionaire Investor Husband Know Too?" and "SEC To Investigate Trades Based On S&P Downgrade Inside Information" http://www.zerohedge.com/news/article/moodys-leaked-again-told-nancy-pelosi-will-probably-not-downgrade-us-weeks-ago-did-her-multi ...We wonder just how deep the SEC investigation has penetrated for it to have generated not even a peep 3 months later.
::::::::(Video) '60 Minutes':::::::: http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=7388130n
::::::::Credibility Trap::::::::
US Congressmen and Their Staffs Regularly Engage In Insider Trading
http://jessescrossroadscafe.blogspot.com/2011/11/credibility-trap-us-congressmen-and.html
These dozen Congressmen are just the ones that would brag about it openly to Jack Abramoff.
Trading in insider information amongst the Congress and their staffs is a form of soft bribery that undermines the character of the legislation, and is a relative side dish compared to the huge amounts of lobbying funds being thrown around by corporate special interests. And both parties are in on it to varying degrees.
It can seem an odd corruption to the average person, given the lavish benefits and pensions granted to members of Congress. What is shocking is not that officials sell themselves, but rather, that they sell themselves so brazenly and often for so little. But it makes sense if one understands the attitude of privilege and the insatiable nature of greed.
Corruption of public officials is not news. But when it becomes epidemic, and when powerful interests can use even relatively petty offenses to blackmail representatives, when lobbyists write the legislation designed to reform their industry, and when enormous financial frauds result in show investigations and big talk but no prosecutions, then it is news. And it is a shame and the decline of the rule of law.
::::::::Continue Reading Here:::::::::
http://jessescrossroadscafe.blogspot.com/2011/11/credibility-trap-us-congressmen-and.html
Max Keiser: “Insider trading is not only rampant in Congress, but completely unregulated.”
http://maxkeiser.com/2011/11/14/insider-trading-is-not-only-rampant-in-congress-but-completely-unregulated/
::::::::Congress Must IMMEDIATELY Pass HR 1148::::::::
The "Stop Trading On Congressional Knowledge" Act
by Tyler Durden on 11/14/2011
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/congress-must-immediately-pass-hr-682-stop-trading-congressional-knowledge-act
Update: we have learned that the current iteration of HR 682 is HR 1148... http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bill.xpd?bill=h112-1148 ...it's purpose is "To prohibit commodities and securities trading based on nonpublic information relating to Congress, to require additional reporting by Members and employees of Congress of securities transactions, and for other purposes" sponsored by Tim Waltz, and as of June 1 was... referred to the Subcommittee on the Constitution.
^Yay! This is definitely the best way to start the separation of Wall-street and Washington!
A public denouncement of both parties, along with Obama, would grow your cause to levels you only dreamed of.
Problem is OWS is incapable of announcing or denouncing anything. Anything and everything put on the table is blocked sooner or later and removed. It's like that old SNL skit with Bill Murray as the middle ages medicine man: "Another blood letting!"
https://sites.google.com/site/the99percentdeclaration/
I totally agree with this post of yours, but I don't think that people are refusing to hold politicians accountable. It's pretty clear that both government AND wallstreet is to blame. In my opinion this issue is the most important one to tackle in terms of beginning to take money out of politics:
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-18560_162-57323527/congress-trading-stock-on-inside-information/?tag=contentMain;cbsCarousel
OK, to all those that say- Politics doesnt work, why would we do that.
Come on guys.....
Politics doesnt work because we have the same two parties for over 100 years, they are 100% corrupted. The 99% want something new.
Now if you get some candidates in there, they only need to focus on the main three goals, nothing else. Tell em to fuck off with the other stuff.
And certainly dont sell out like the Tea and go in as the Duopoly.
Until you want to address the people who are writing the tax code, the trade code, and the military code, it is just a protest.
These people in power dont care about your groups and protests. If this were in another country, they would just drop a bomb on you.
This movement is de-party action. We donot need politicians help us. We will do it ourselve.
You dont need the politicians currently in DC, or the D/R parties, but if you want to get something done, figuring it out, that is what politics is. Stop running from it, it is the natural next step.
Anyone can bitch for a raise at work. Sitting down and figuring it out is politics
Get the money out of our politics, this is how, started by Dylan Ratigan and growing, sign it, publish it http://www.getmoneyout.com/
"Obama and the Entire Congress have failed the US people. We are here today to announce will not vote for either party in 2012, and are encouraging the ENTIRE NATION to get active, to get involved, and to create their own platforms to take the country back from those that stole it from us"
Apparently the main objective of ows is... to advocate the right to sleep in parks. Being kicked out of a park is a defeat. Getting back into the park is a victory.
Really, really enthralling stuff.
A formal announcement of "Obama and the Entire Congress have failed the US people. We are here today to announce will not vote for either party in 2012, and are encouraging the ENTIRE NATION to get active, to get involved, and to create their own platforms to take the country back from those that stole it from us"
I appreciate your ability to differentiate between a Movement and a mere protest. Where does Washington fit into our picture? Many of the Occupiers I have met do not even consider reclaiming Washington and disrupting the corporate agenda. It appears to me that Washington is completely irrelevant in the minds of most protesters, just another wimpy reformist strategy. Instant revolution? We want it all and we want it now? Good luck with that. Has anyone considered a viable Green Party on American soil? I'm talking 2012, gotta move on this one to make it a reality.
Don't worry. Pulling out the dirt on one will force dirt out on the other. The hard part will be sorting the reality from the spin.
Think of it this way:
Corporations do not have tongues!!
tweet that!!
The normal people of the US have given up on the D/R parties. SOMEONE or SOMETHING must step up and lead.
Has to happen. Or we may as well just roll over.
WTF are you talking about? I see people here and in ows bash obama and every other political party all the time. You just seem to be openly lying to everyone to create tension and division. Quit that shit!
Im talking about a release like the novel we released on corporations crimes against humanity. Something formal, to clear the air that this isnt a Democratic response to the right.
Because that is what most of US thinks it is
Fuck what most of the idiot americans think! We don't need their support at all! It only takes small groups of people to change things and to denounce the dissenters as traitors or terrorists so who cares?
Then why the first release? And you are going to need a hell of a lot more supporters to get any change.
Not really. the tea party was the epitome of astroturf,with rigged elections(thank you diebold), fake debates, fake poll numbers, fake candidates and full corporate backing from the .01% of the one percent(the koch bros).Do I want to run a fake movement? Of course not. Do I want everyone to support OWS? Of course I do. But I'm not going to beg anyone in a nation thats 34th in education because its not worth my time. You are either on the bus or you aren't. It makes no difference to me.
Then you are going to have an awful lot of empty seats and drive in circles. Announcing that we officially condem Obama and the Entire congress for failing the american people, is what the AMERICAN PEOPLE are dying for. Some literally (healthcare, military, etc).
Its not our place to officially condemn any politician because OWS is apolitical. I can't believe how many times I have to say this. Its YOUR responsibility to openly condemn these people its not ows' responsibility.
Im just getting pretty pissed that no one seems to want to make the connection. Its a two headed monster.
If you only cut off one head, it will grow back.
This is great i love to see people coming to terms with the fact that the political arena is rigged, it doesn't take a brain surgeon to figure it out, just some common sense.....
I wondered the same. If folks can spark a revolution in Egypt or Syria using twitter, then it would seem an easy thing to do in America given our youth's fondness of the technology. I initially suspect it was a Counter-Tea-Party movement sparked by the Democrats in anticipation of the 2012 election. I decided this isn't true.
It takes real discontent to get this many people out on the streets for this long. Someone may have sparked it with some well placed tweets, but there wouldn't be anything to spark if there weren't a lot of unhappy people.
In my experience here, I have found that a lot of people don't really understand exactly what they're mad about or who is to blame. I see this as "I don't know much about art, but I know what I like." The people are unhappy, and something needs to be done, even if many are misguided in where they place blame.
If this movement were run by one of the political parties, it would be a LOT more effective in it's message and avoiding stupid things that alienate their base.
I think one of the biggest problems is that people haven't the foggiest idea about civics and how government works and what options they have to dismantle the government we have. Why can't they take a page from Wisconsin and start petitions to recall every last politician in Washington and have ready our representatives to take their place.
Good thoughts, but I don't think is a mechanism to recall a sitting Representative or Senator. There ARE elections on the way, however ;o)
People ALSO need to understand what power OUTSIDE the political system they have. See my post at http://occupywallst.org/forum/the-power-of-the-people/ and my effort to put it into practice at http://occupywallst.org/forum/occupy-mall-street-and-change-corporate-america/
I understand that there can be power outside the political system but don't forget the electronic voting machines that have been hacked to steal elections, (see black box voting). People need to be aware of just how many obstacles are being thrown their way to disenfranchise them, so unseating these people is going to be very challenging. There have been several states that have abandoned electronic voting so this should be brought up as an issue to be tackled, to get all 50 states of these electronic voting machine.
Yep. Electronic voting bothers me too. Heck, we see reports of the freakin' PENTAGON being hacked every week it seems. They blame it on China, but who cares, it simply PROVES that China or whoever else is hacking our systems could possibly swing an ELECTION ! Bad, bad. bad.
The idea of using our power as consumers is more reliable than politics. Until we figure out how to get the money out of politics and break up the two-party system ( see http://occupywallst.org/forum/we-the-people-in-order-to-a-proposal/ ), we'll just be electing whoever the "investors" and the parties want. In the meantime, we can effect a LOT of change through our power as consumers.
Well, if 2012 comes, and our choices are two corrupted parties, then I will look at this as a failure.
Then you better start looking at is as a failure.
Our political system is rigged for the two parties. Every candidate that runs as an independent is symbolic at best and only draws votes from whatever party he is closest to (for OWS, that would likely be the Democrats). Remember Ross Perot? He cost the Republicans the ticket. Remember Ralph Nader ? I seem to recall he hurt the Democrats.
I don't know how to fix this other than to break the two parties at the very source as part of a "get the politics out of money" effort. See my proposal at http://occupywallst.org/forum/we-the-people-in-order-to-a-proposal/
Note there are SERIOUS things We the People can do without even getting INVOLVED in politics. See http://occupywallst.org/forum/the-power-of-the-people/ . A coordinated effort to "Occupy Malls" by spreading out and putting a few people at every mall in America around Christmas could actually effect some change. They would carry signs that say "Occupy American Jobs, buy Made in the USA." I suspect they could actually change enough buying decisions to impact the positions of corporations.
Oh yeah because its ows fault that things haven't changed as soon as you snapped your fingers. You are incredibly shallow and your expectations are unrealistic.
What ? The poster said HE would view it as a failure if he doesn't see a 3rd party candidate. I don't see it as a failure if we don't get a separate candidate because, as I noted, there are MANY ways to effect change rather than politics.
I like the buy in the USA campaign
Once corporation see people buying American made, they'll make DAMNED sure to have some on the shelves. After we get them to start making more in America, we can then have people start protesting again to educate the public regarding which companies pay a fair wage. THIS is the power of the people to change business.
I think we need to get behind one politician. I'm going down to Occupy Dallas Friday and Saturday to talk to people about registering to vote. Maybe other Occupations should do the same. If we can all come together and back one of the canidates in the running for presidents, our voices will definately be heard. RP12
RP4P ...ows and tea party unite!
Both sides of the aisle are out of control. Both parties vote identically for the BIG issues addressing the nation. Only their rhetoric differs. (Mainly on social issues)
The Majority of members from both parties LOVE to vote for BAILOUTS don't they. Its always a bipartisan vote to fund more war isn't it. Both agree when it comes to the patriot act don't they. They never differ when it comes to the BIG things. They make up the offense and defense playing for the same predatory team.
Yep. Good Cop, Bad Cop, and the only difference is which one claims to be on YOUR side.
Bingo, time to occupy congress: http://www.facebook.com/pages/Occupy-Congress/109181762526876
good call
Not at first but we've been infiltrated, esp. this site....its meant to divide us awakeners into 2 controlled opposite groups...ows and the tea party..thats why RON PA UL FOR PRESODENT!, name is censored.
ows and tea party unite!...RP4P!
That's not why Ron Paul's name is censored. Below the comment box at the top of the page is a button that says 'read the rules.' Click that, it will explain why.
lol, like their gonna say why he's censored...ows was founded by good intentioned people but has since been infiltrated and "they" see it as a good opportunity to split the movement in half...ows/tea party...Ron Lawl is already embraced by the tea party and they know full well ows would flock to him as well if there isn't some type of suttle discouragement.
OWS AND TEAPARTY UNITE!.....Ron Lawl FOR PRESIDENT!
Just out of curiosity did you check out the 'read the rules?' Apparently not. The reason he is censored is because when they first started this forum every two or three posts was a 'vote for Ron Paul' post. They didn't want to give the impression this was a Ron Paul site. They are apolitical, they endorse no one. Maybe do a little fact-checking instead of just making wild assumptions and then spreading it like it's fact.
I realize they don't encourage talkin about him but his censorship is beyond eye raising....I'm sure they don't want every other thread about Hitler either but it isn't censored....so ask yourself why he is really censored and consider my aforementioned hypothesis, and if you still think its a legit censorship....
I've got some ocean front property in Arizona, from my front porch I can see the sea. I've got some ocean front property in Arizona and if you'll buy that I'll throw the golden gate in free.
I don't see anyone ignoring either party or Obama.
I havent seen a single political sign yet. Its all about the corporations. Which is fine, but its ignoring the other half of the problem. Like yelling at kids for running around, and ignoring their mom that feeds them sugar all day.
Perhaps, you are reading the wrong signs.
Show me a few pics of anti-obama signs. They are WAY too far and few in between.
Wrong kind of signs.
Although, I do find it interesting that this is your focus.
Well, we certainly have one half of the problem covered, but we must address the other half also. To not do is letting the people of the USA down.
Then you aren't listening.
Believe none of what you hear, and half of what you see
Ive been going at this since sept 30th.
And you want it to focus more visually on Obama.
And if the focus was more on Obama right now then you would believe that the politicians weren't behind it.
That is the interesting part.
Yes, most in the movement are too scared to tell this guy to go fuck himeself in public (not in so kind words :) That makes me start to wonder. When we have a Gov and Corps merged, and I hear WAY more "this isnt political" than I hear 'the gov has fucked us, get out!" it makes me wonder who is working on the messaging.
Oh, it is political. But, there are 490 gazillion posts just likes yours. That makes me wonder. :)
Posts that get people to slow down and think?
It isn't that people aren't thinking. It is the fact that you aren't controlling the direction that they are thinking.
Hey, go nuts. Focus only on the corporations, thats fine. Im not trying to control, Im just letting you know what the 99% out there is dying to hear, dying to be part of.
Yeah. Cause that third party can then jump in to save the day.
[Removed]
I agree with you. What has been achieved ?nothing other than a lot of hot air? give them bread and circuses
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I agree. But the oligarchy isn't behind all of this. These Occupy people are simply following their lifetime education at the hands of Marxist propagandists. They tend to be very narrow-minded people that can see nothing beyond what has been pounded into their skulls since childhood.
You are not wrong.
OWS was created by professional organizers as a mechanism to divert attention away from Obama's failed policies.
The entire "movement" was concocted to create a diversion and help get him reelected. To create an outside "enemy away from government itself... Wall Street.
It has been working somewhat. Ever since OWS started, the media has not focused much on Obama and his poll numbers have gone up. The media has only been focused on the Republican primaries and OWS.
a paraphrase of Commodore Perry's famous "We have met the enemy and he is.. [us]" from the War of 1812).
Something isnt lining up here. Never before has there been protests like this with ZERO attention paid to the governement.
Thats bullshit! what part of "we are pissed off at wall street and the government but we are more pissed at ws" do you not get? Jesus fucking christ you people are incredibly stupid,gullible and openly deceitful!
I dont see too many "Obama Must Go" signs. And there certainly isnt any at the other occs. I support the thing, relax dude. Just trying to build up the other side, seems to be slumping.
So? we are not morally obligated to calm your "I think they may be a part of insert major party here because we exhausted ourselves saying that we are not officially or unofficially endorsing any party. Furthermore, we have already established over and over again to the point of exhaustion that OWS is apolitical. I don't see why we need to prove anything to anyone. We don't need to.
That is the biggest line of bullshit on the planet. You cant claim your gov is bought and then say "um, were not political".
This the scared bullshit that drives me nuts with most of us. Too fuckin scared to take a big swing.
It is bought! We do constantly speak out against them! You and others kept accusing us of being pro-obama even though we told you schmucks that this was from the beginning an apolitical rally! We haven't taken a side on the political spectrum because they are all corrupt! I don't know any other clear way to spell that out for you other than that.
That's right.
You won't ever hear them criticize the government as a "movement" either. That's the plan.
Obama is def behind OWS. He's the 1 that started using term 99% to 1%. He is Bush 2.0. He's too cool for the young people to not support him. He's doing a great job shifting the blame from him to wall street. If O-Bush didn't bail wall street out, then the "market" would have corrected itself. I don't buy that we would have been in another great depression. The government has spent us into this hole, in my opinion over decades of ridiculous spending. We give billions every year to countries around the world. I would like to c a breakdown on the ".GOV" site, that breaks down where all of our american $ really goes.
Ron Pau l is censored? wow
It is when you try to type it in it changes it to Ron Lawl
....and why's that?
idk just realized
I too am beginning to think it is a staged production. I just am not sure of who is behind it at this time. I'm sure Soros is involved one way or another.
That statement is literally drowning in bullshit sir! If that were true,then these shadow banker people would be paying off the police to not harass these protesters! its just naive and foolish to think that some shadow banker is going to go through all the trouble of setting up an astroturf movement just to have it constantly broken up by the cops. Its stupid and you should feel stupid.
Or the spectacle is designed to distract and invoke anger.. I am not saying that is the case, but the suspicions are present. I am not the only one. The easiest way for OWS to combat this is to select a representative and have a transparent dialogue with the public on the true intentions and structure of OWS.
He's banking cartel, they fund both sides of everything, so Im sure.