Forum Post: The Case For The Original Issue - serious people check this out
Posted 13 years ago on Nov. 15, 2011, 12:15 a.m. EST by misterioso
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the case for the original issue - money in politics
It is the one thing we can all agree on, im sure there will be differences of opinion on how exactly we get it done legislatively, but i cant imagine any one in this movement being opposed to the overall goal
focussing on one issue and having an articulate message is the most effective strategy, if we want to see results we have to narrow it down and stay on message. We are up against the most powerful people in the world and we dont stand a chance in hell unless we focus are energies in one area
If we focus on one issue, its got to be a big one, this movement is our one chance to change the system so its got to be a fundamental structural change that will produce long lasting results and lead to other reforms. Getting some jobs bill passed or allowing unions to keep their collective bargaining rights is all well and good but these are like Band-Aids when we need open heart surgery. We need to go the root of the problem and overhaul the system.
- This proposal is enormously popular, the only people who are for money in politics are politicians and members of the 1% This cause really fits this movement like a glove since the 99% are all for it.
This is also a non-partisan issue that cuts through the faulty left-right partisan prism that media uses to divide us and keep us arguing about petty cultural war issues. We would have many conservatives and moderates on our side. I even think some of the trolls on this site could be persuaded. After all if you believe in democracy, you should be for a system that distributes political power more evenly. Right now we do not have democracy, we have a corpratocracy. Campaign finance reform is the only way we can achieve real democracy where people have a say in their government.
Whatever issues you care about be it climate change, jobs, taxes, wars/military industrial complex, health care, our crumbling infrastructure, financial regulation ( i could go on all day). I guarantee nothing significant will ever get done on any of these issues unless we get money out of politics. The Original Issue.
This issue is very straight forward and much less prone to convolution and demagoguery than some of the other issues. The capitalism vs socialism debate has become a tired cliche, it is neither interesting or relevant. We know that whatever system we have, inevitably it is going to be some mix of capitalism and socialism, as all governments in world are, so its really a question of how to set the dials so that the systems is working for everyone. What Im saying is we should shift the debate to democracy vs plutocracy and save the more nuanced divisive stuff for later.
- To everyone out there reading this I urge you to consider being a little more pragmatic, i know everyones heart is in the right place but unless we start getting a little smarter and results oriented, nothing will happen. The 1% does not want us to be pragmatic and more organized around a demand, especially if this demand has to do with campaign finance. I understand the benefits of being vague and broad based but I think that this is the one demand that is totally consistent with that approach. This demand is not going to divide us, it will only allow us to grow. Its not going to allow the democratic party to co-opt the movement since dems are kind of against it. Its not going to hamper the longevity of this movement. Campaign finance reform will be a long, hard fought epic battle for the soul of this nation and when it is over, and we have won, we will be in the best position ever to take up all these other issues including financial reform and addressing wealth inequality. The founders got a lot of things right when they drafted the constitution. The separation of church and state and the various checks and balances were extremely innovative at the time and allowed the nation to prosper in many ways for many years. This is our chance to be innovative and to change the world, to put in what they left out. We will end this money based political system that is corrupt to its core and replace it with a real democracy.
Please post any ideas you have for how to further reduce the influence of money in politics. And sign this petition if you have not done so already http://www.getmoneyout.com and watch this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=cOWkaeG-1IQ
Just saw the YouTube clip and bookmarked the link. Sounds like a good next step.
As far as I can tell, this is the main motive. Maybe I'm in the minority in this regard but I've known this since I first read up on the Occupy movement. That said, I completely agree that it's time we focus our efforts primarily on this message. Once we regain some semblance of agency, real change can begin. What that change will be is still up for debate.
The easiest way to make the message known is to open with it when describing the Occupy movement to somebody. Whatever personal wishes we have for the outcome of this movement will have to be, for the most part, put aside for the time being. We should feel free to voice our particular wishes after the initial description (as is our right) but must remember to associate them only with ourselves and not necessarily the movement as a whole.
Yup! Signed some time ago already. HR 1148 also plays into this theme.
http://overthecoals.blogspot.com/ Michael Moore's movie Farenheit 911.
Rather than portraying the evidence which concludes that Bush directed the conspiracy; Moore's documentary uses innuendo to infer there might be some looking the other way. None of the following facts prove anything concerning Bush's involvement: Saudis were allowed to leave America and Prince Bandar was a close friend of Bush, and no one else was allowed to fly. Major James R. Bath and airman Bush were suspended for their failure to take a medical examination, Bath would later be closely involved in Bush's oil companies. In a document that was altered by the White House, Bath's name was blacked out in the 2004 version compared to the 2000 version. Bath was the money manager for the Bin Laden family in America.
Moore either failed to study the hard evidence that Bush directly ordered the explosives rigged in the 3 WTC towers in addition to ordering a missile to be fired into the Pentagon. Would any Air Force General agree and fire that missile into the Pentagon unless the Commander in Chief ordered him to do that? Could bin Laden contact any American General? If Flight 77 actually hit the Pentagon there would be pictures to prove that inside the Pentagon. There would be jet engines, landing gear, hundreds of seats or their frames, luggage and passengers' bodies, but no pictures exist of any remains of Flight 77. At least one credible Pentagon employee filed a law suit in the SDNY court claiming there was no indication of any plane associated with the explosion that blasted April Gallop out of her seat before she scrambled out of the building. The suit was dismissed by Judge Denny Chin and went before the 2nd Circuit on appeal. Bush's cousin Judge John M. Walker, Jr. was on the Appeal panel to prevent remanding the case back for trial.
If there were any pictures of the rubble they could have allowed April Gallop's trial to proceed and proved her claim to be false with pictures. Pictures of the outside wall showed a small hole compared to the size of a Boeing 767 as if the wings of the plane with 2 huge Rolls Royce jet engines folded like the wings of a bird. The soft aluminum fuselage of a plane could create the hole in the thick Pentagon wall but the titanium engines dissolved.
This film muddied the water to protect Bush. Did Moore intend to protect Bush when the film focused on nonsense, or did Moore legitimately not know how to investigate this crime? I will attempt to learn the answer today when I meet Moore in person.
sounds like a good step 2