Forum Post: The ACA meets the For Profit/Greed system.
Posted 11 years ago on Nov. 13, 2013, 3:39 p.m. EST by DKAtoday
(33802)
from Coon Rapids, MN
This content is user submitted and not an official statement
Don't apologize for the actions of the for profit insurance industry. Call them out on their actions. We all know that the insurance industry needs to be reigned in. For one = multiple plans with multiple deductibles. There should only be ONE plan that is 100% coverage = health - hospital - clinic - pharmaceutical - Eye - Dental - FULL COVERAGE and no deductibles. The USA has one of the worst health care systems in the world - this judgement takes into account of the insurance system as well as the health care providers - IN COMBINATION. This problem of getting the best care for everyone at a reasonable cost is a problem of the run-away for profit system that takes more out in salaries & bonuses for the executives as well as for shareholders - more money out of the system for profit than goes into the system for care = Facilities Personnel Equipment pharmaceuticals supplies. The exorbitant prices/charges for services and infrastructure is out of control - all - ALL in the name of Profit/Greed. This health care for profit system is not alone in being out of control - it is just two examples of a run away for profit business structure. These cancellations of policies by insurance companies so that they can push more expensive policies with poorer care/coverage and insanely high deductibles - We the USA need proper regulation of business - like a cap on income/profits excess to be funneled back into care or funneled out in taxes. This is the only way that you ( Us the USA ) will make a fair health care system work - as well as all businesses. YOU ( WE ) WILL GET NOWHERE EXPECTING ANY SORT OF FAIRNESS OR ALTRUISM FROM THE GREEDY. REMOVE CORPORATE PERSONHOOD. SHUTDOWN OFFSHORE TAX HAVENS. Penalize Business that off-shores work to avoid paying a living wage as well as to avoid environmental regulations.
The most efficient and effective way to provide healthcare to 300 million plus Americans, who all need healthcare, mind you, is to provide it via a single-payer, universal plan that is not-for-profit. Eliminate complex administrative costs and eliminate profit in what is a human right.
If people want to purchase a cadillac plan on top of the universal plan, they should be allowed to, of course, but every single American should have basic coverage that has the absolute lowest administrative costs and that has zero profit making involved to begin with.
Health Care in the US as Seen From Down Under: "Mens Sana in Insanus Patriae"
Thursday, 14 November 2013 00:00 By Niall McLaren, Truthout | Op-Ed
http://truth-out.org/opinion/item/19902-health-care-in-the-us-as-seen-from-down-under
Without too much effort, any country can have a national health service providing world-class care for a moderate price. Universal health insurance does not bankrupt the country. I often see complaints from the Rabid Right in the United States that having universal health care will make people irresponsible about their health, but this doesn't make sense. When a community decides they want universal health care, they are being highly responsible about their health. They have talked it over and agreed that this is the best way to go. They are taking perfect, democratic care of their health. How could anybody object? It's like conscription: Armies and universal health care only work when everybody chips in. My advice is: Just ignore the screechers, they'll get over it because the good thing about socialism in this country is that it's optional.
That's right. Once you pay your tax (that isn't optional, but I'm not aware that paying taxes is an option in the United States, either), you'll get your green Medicare card. If you're too poor to pay taxes, you'll still get one, but whether you use it or not is entirely up to you. You can be as socialist or as "privatist" as you like. If you don't want to stand in the queue at the public hospital with all the olfactorily challenging people, you don't have to but I know plenty of rich people who do. Or you can pay a bit extra and see one of those nice private doctors. You may be treated in a lovely private hospital, but you won't be treated any better. That's our boast. We have leveled health care up, not down.
Amen. And, until we move to the universal model our healthcare will be a failure. Obama's problems rolling out the ACA are just symptomatic of his trying to build on the travesty that is the status quo. Sometimes, you have to start from scratch to get to where you really want to be, it's easier, and ultimately, more effective. But, we lack a strong left in the U.S. to make this happen anytime soon. Somehow, many Americans want to fight for their right not to have healthcare, and to be honest, I can't relate to that. The rugged individual thing on steroids will be the end of us.
Universal health care "is" the proper goal - with 100% coverage & 0 deductible. To get there though will require a process that shifts out the for profit system in stages.
1st stage could be a profit cap shifting excess into services to ALL or funneling it in taxes of the for profits into a government provider system. This of course can not be done without a requirement/regulation that all facilities - hospital and clinic MUST treat these people.
'Right-Wing Media Use Provocative Ads to Slut Shame Women' - http://www.nationofchange.org/right-wing-media-use-provocative-insurance-ads-slut-shame-women-1384443601 - Never, Ever Give Up On Universal, Single-Payer Healthcare! Occupy Democracy, Fairness and Social Justice! Solidarity.
F'n Limpballs - who the hell cares what that shithead thinks?
Answer: People in serious need of mental health care and a real education.
You're right to imply a diseased way of thinking, I think and so here's more insight into the infection vectors - http://www.nationofchange.org/koch-backed-nonprofit-spent-record-cash-2012-1384785002 & for more insight into the healthcare propaganda war - http://www.nationofchange.org/fox-hides-fact-health-insurance-plans-routinely-change-138504814 Never Give Up! Occupy The Debate! Solidarity.
" we go all-in "
HuH from Americans for Prosperity ( = Koch ) - but isn't that the current battle-cry of the roadblocks . . . . um . . . Rino's in Office?
Nice to see that more individuals in the Red states are waking-up to the real facts of life = those assholes do not care about you or your children or the future.
'Americans for Prosperity operates 34 state chapters and claims 2.3 million activist volunteers. Its website - http://americansforprosperity.org/about/ touts support from more than 90,000 individual donors who have financially supported the group or its sister foundation, which has also seen its spending rise in recent years.'
'However, tax records show Americans for Prosperity has received large sums of money from other Koch-connected nonprofits such as Freedom Partners and the Center to Protect Patient Rights. Corporate interests, such as the American Petroleum Institute and tobacco giant Reynolds American, are also among Americans for Prosperity’s major donors.' (from my link re the Koch brothers) & also please see - http://www.nationofchange.org/values-not-just-math-why-warren-s-social-security-speech-matters-1385045765
People in 'Red States' are heavily propagandised but eventually insight into their own, collective well being must take hold - provide to switch the Fox-Box off! Never Give Up The Struggle! Occupy The Issues! Solidarity.
Probably the same list of suspects that support ALEC - CATO - HERITAGE etc etc etc et-projectile vomiting.
Here's something from AFP's site to make you hurl as far as the MN state line - 'AFP is an organization of grassroots leaders who engage citizens in the name of limited government and free markets on the local, state, and federal levels. AFP grassroots activists advocate for public policies that champion the principles of entrepreneurship and fiscal and regulatory restraint.'
Lobbying has infected politics to such a massive extent - http://www.opensecrets.org/lobby/top.php and http://www.businesspundit.com/10-of-the-biggest-lobbies-in-washington/ as to make a total sham of our democracy. Never Give Up Exposing Corruption! Occupy Democracy! Solidarity.
Yep - makes one hafta fight real hard not to die puking - Opposite Speak Bullshit just like Right To Work means " Right To Fire for no cause "
As Sen. Elizabeth Warren says - “A generation ago, middle-class families were able to put away enough money during their working years to make it through their later years with dignity. On average, they saved about 11% of their take home pay while working. Many paid off their homes, got rid of all their debts, and retired with strong pensions from their employers. And where pensions, savings, and investments fell short, they could rely on Social Security to make up the difference.” from my link above.
And again - http://www.nationofchange.org/values-not-just-math-why-warren-s-social-security-speech-matters-1385045765 Never Give Up Imagining And Remembering! Occupy A Future Fit For The 99%! Solidarity.
When I was in grade school - it was taught that you did not want to spend more than 25% of your take home pay for housing. My Parents bought our house for around 25,000 - it is currently worth about 200,000. Now imagine if their pay ( referred to as blue collar back in the day ) had kept pace to the inflation of that house.
What we need in common we must do in common - of, by and for the people. We don't need the cost of investors profit imposed on everything we need, want and/or buy.
That is why for 1 - an earnings/profit cap should be instituted - how else halt inflation fueling the insane drive of Greed? This should be done with a national requirement for the minimum pay for any job " Be A Minimum LIVING Wage " calculated at 40hrs a week so that even part timers/temps get at least that same wage per hour.
This step alone would drastically change the economy making for a healthier society.
A great start it would be! Sadly, Walmart thinks they have a better idea;
"It has actually come to this: on Monday, news broke that a Walmart in Ohio has set up a donation box asking employees to donate desperately needed food -- to struggling, hungry Walmart employees.
"That's right. Walmart raked in $15.7 billion in profits last year alone, but apparently they don't feel any need to share that wealth with their millions of workers. Instead, they stick them with poverty wages, then send them off to ask government, food banks, or even each other for help."
www.hoovers.com/.../company-profile.Wal-Mart_Stores_Inc.e82225a6f...‎ "Bigger than Europe's Carrefour , Metro AG , and Tesco combined, it's the world's #1 retailer with some 2.2 million employees. In the US, Wal-Mart operates more ..." http://www.hoovers.com/company-information/cs/company-profile.Wal-Mart_Stores_Inc.e82225a6f3c5e3bb.html
Greg here: $5000 more per year [$2.50/hr for 50, 40hr weeks] for 2 million of the 2.2M Walmart employees adds up to $10G, leaving the corporate parasites, the Walton heirs, $5.7G in profits. Alternatively, we can tax the $10 billion to pay for the welfare their employees need to live. But McDonalds has an idea too:
'McDonald's Advice To Underpaid Employees: Break Food Into Pieces To Keep You Full The "advice" was published on the "McResource" website, meant to give tips to fast-food workers.' http://www.alternet.org/mcdonalds-advice-employees-break-food-pieces-keep-you-full
TV Ad - Wallfart it's more than you think.
Yeah like rapers of their workers and the county/state that they are in.
You know Marx didn't predict that concentration of wealth would disappear the middle class and lead to "the war" (of the name we may not mention) for several hundred years from his time. Looks to me that we're ahead of the ETA.
Marx concepts have to date been mostly hijacked and trashed in the name of Dictatorship and yep GREED at the top of societies.
Americans have the health care system they're willing to live (or die) with. To this minute, no group of Americans are interested in creating a mutual health insurance company that would have a single full-coverage fee for all customers; a fee that would be reduced with greater numbers of customers. No group of Americans are interested in creating a nationwide group of cooperative hospitals that would go hand in hand with the nationwide mutual health insurance company in further lowering medical costs. No group of Americans are even interested in establishing universal single payer health care at the municipal level in conjunction with municipal public hospitals. The things that are fully within the power of Americans to do for themselves, they're not interested in. The most that Americans are interested in is in waiting for a corporate owned government to do it all for them against the profit driven capitalist interests of those corporate owners.
When you have been sucking on the corporate teat for so long, it becomes difficult to get weaned and to see the possibilities. Slowly that's changing though, with our help.
99% of Americans are uneducated as to how Corp(se)oRATions have taken over Government ( State & Fed ) and are destroying this Country and the rest of the world. Profits/Greed over People. Though looking at all of the shit insurance companies are pulling in the wake of ACA - people really should be aware of the For Profit Health Coverage abuses.
Were you to suggest it to them, most Americans would have no idea of what you are talking about.
Credit modern marketing.
Most Americans wouldn't need to have any idea of what I'm talking about. Only a few, a single group such as the PIRGs, the Green Party, OWS, anyone. It only takes a single group to promote and support an idea and in educating others on it. Once the seed is planted, the same modern marketing can be utilized to grow awareness and participation but it all has to start with some group's initial interest in pursuing it.
I think this is a fantastic idea, as it does an end run around all of the bullshit, and creates a new paradigm for healthcare.
Getting concerned providers involved would be the key to planting the seed.
Single Payer System - um why do the American people need a middle-man that skims off the collective pool of payers aka American taxpayers?
Hey I posted about the pitfalls of evil Romney Care from my station in the mother land of its birth, until even the birds stopped singing near my house ... a plan born by one party adopted by the other, is still the same shitty plan designed to profit the insurance industry - are we all this stupid?
http://occupywallst.org/forum/the-aca-meets-the-for-profitgreed-system/#comment-1011924
too late :-(
NOPE
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/11/10/1253969/-The-revenge-of-the-insurance-industry?detail=action
[Removed]
Don't forget our old "friend" ALEC. That wonderful charity that looks out for all of us. ( not really, they just look out for the SUPER citizens that fund them)
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/nov/20/obamacare-alec-republican-legislators
ALEC destroying Democracy, one State at time.
Everyone should be aware of that by now - OH - Wait - media blackout/boughtout.
Never Mind
My Bad
Like fracking, one's not supposed to mention ALEC.
They're just a harmless charity.
Except when they're not. Which is pretty much all the time, but we're not supposed to mention that either.
Heaven forbid that reality should enter into public dialog.
Public dialog??
Wuzzat?
Paul Weyrich wanted to assure that the public would have nothing to do with it.
ALEC is making it so.
Destroying Democracy, one State at a time.
That's It - plain and simple - facts/truth does not go out to the public by the corp(se)oRATe purveyors of media. Just propaganda/spin/lies like clean coal or a bright future with fracking. The murderous suicidal insane assholes.
What do you think they're going to say about that coal gasification they have planned?
Did you notice, they want to do it in ground??
Sure = Out Of Sight - Out Of Mind. Just like much of the damage of fracking. Pollution? In your soil? In your Water? NAH that's just a rumor - what? no no thanks but I brought my own water - thanks anyhow - WAIT DON'T LIGHT THAT MATCH - aAIieeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
Don't worry, that's perfectly normal and natural.
Water's supposed to burn. It means there's no biological contaminants.
Care for a bottle of Dasani?
Ooooops.
http://www.commondreams.org/headlines04/0304-04.htm
aaAHHHAAHAHAhahahahaha
But getting back to the ACA:
Tell President Obama that it’s time to expose and stop insurance companies from sabotaging the Affordable Care Act. Click here to sign our petition.
The petition to President Obama reads:
The Affordable Care Act was necessary, because private insurance companies cannot be trusted to provide universal health care. They have an interest in getting consumers out of good plans, and are now legally bound to discontinue their subpar plans.
It is time to set the record straight, and expose insurance companies who are sowing the seeds of confusion by tricking people into buying more expensive new policies.
Click here to sign the petition to President Obama, urging him to expose and stop insurance company sabotage.
Private insurance companies are scamming customers, hoping to take advantage of all the confusion around Obamacare.
Some are misleading customers by canceling health plans that Obamacare actually grandfathers in, and then getting those customers to purchase new (more expensive) policies. Without telling them about the alternative plans and subsidies on the exchanges.
Other insurance companies are just blatantly lying, selling new junk policies without explaining that those buying them will still have to buy real policies to comply with the mandate.
Rather than discrediting Obamacare, these actions prove why we needed health care reform in the first place. We cannot trust insurance companies, and must stop this sabotage.
Tell President Obama he needs to expose and stop this insurance company sabotage. Sign our petition, urging the President to take action now.
Keep fighting, Paul Hogarth, Daily Kos
I added:
We need the ACA - Actually a national single payer health care program ( Universal Health Care ) but right now ACA will work as a starting point. Except to get it to work you are going to have to go after the for profit insurance system nationwide with regulations to make it happen - as ACA/Single payer/Universal Health Care is against the for profit insurance companies need = feeding their GREED.
Yep, we should and I signed that one.
http://www.addictinginfo.org/2013/11/20/destroy-obamacare-cyber-attackers/
They'll spend all that money on crap like this and that Uncle Sam costume, and not a dime to make it work.
I knew - without a shadow of a doubt - that this ACA would be fucked with from the very start and through the whole process. To date the sabotage attempts are plainly obvious - to me anyway.
It is really sad that so much money is spent on advertising and nothing on implementation of cures including Health Care and removing toxins from the market place to significantly increase the general populations health prior to ever needing to see a Dr - but also going beyond to such things as upgrading the power infrastructure to remove fossil fuel from use immediately - talk about a jobs and economic stimulus program - WHEW. Then ALL Of That Work with a MINIMUM LIVING WAGE as the basic entry level requirement.
It all comes back to fighting/regulating making the for profit system sane and safe to society.
The Koch's, being among the richest people in the World, are busy spending money to do away with the minimum wage entirely, while their pipelines rot and their factories dump effluents.
We are all downstream.
EDIT: This would also be a social action to the benefit of ALL even unto the rest of the world.
Which is exactly why they should not be allowed to run loose - UN-supervised. They should be bound ( legally bound - no wiggle room at all ) to take their business profits ( 90% at least ) into transferring over into clean energy - meaning immediate implementation to alternatives ( clean alternatives ) to fossil fuel. This should be true of any and every energy provider as well as for industry as well as for transportation ( business or private ). Corp(se)oRATions have already quite explicitly demonstrated that they want nothing to do with improving with replacing what they have - except for squeezing out every possible penny into their pockets - they demonstrate quite clearly why they need to be controlled.
In a related issue:
Becoming a helicopter pilot had been Matt Kilgore’s childhood dream.
Corporate greed killed his dream.
The California resident and father of two started attending the for-profit school, Silver State Helicopters, to earn his pilot’s license. To afford classes, he took out loans from Keybank USA, a lender to many Silver State students.
Then, abruptly, the school shut its doors and filed for bankruptcy.
The bankruptcy judge described the school’s operations as “an airborne Ponzi scheme.”
Matt and his classmates were left with extensive debt, but no marketable skills and no diplomas, certificates or other accreditation.
Seeking relief from the school’s alleged fraud, some of Matt’s classmates took the school and a different lender to court.
Those students got their day in court.
Sounds like the civil justice system worked, right?
Except the story hasn’t ended for Matthew Kilgore or any other students who went through Keybank.
That’s because fine print in Keybank’s terms included a forced arbitration clause and a ban on class actions.
A “forced arbitration clause” is language restricting customers’ constitutional right to a civil jury trial; the class-action ban forces anyone seeking accountability from the corporation to do so alone in private, costly arbitration, even if a large number of people were swindled or harmed.
The only way Matt can seek any relief at all is by taking his case to the bank’s hand-picked arbitration provider. Matt started fighting for redress in 2008, when the school shut down. He’s still fighting.
Unlike his peers who received some assistance from their class-action settlement with a different lender, Matt’s tab with Keybank has ballooned from $55,000 to $103,000 because of interest.
Had Matt been “lucky” enough to be ripped off by a company that didn’t have a forced arbitration clause in its terms, circumstances by now would probably be better for him and his family.
We shouldn’t have different justice systems that deliver different results because of fine print that corporations place in their take-it-or-leave-it terms.
Add your name if you agree.
We need to know if activists like you are with us.
Thanks for all you do,
Rick Claypool Public Citizen’s Online Action Team action@citizen.org
donate
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I added:
The legal system should be the same for all - business should not be exempt from legal redress/accountability.
Hahahahahaha, Fox by Jed Lewison
I'm Selena Martinez, a MoveOn member in Pflugerville, TX, and I started a petition to CBS Evening News, which says: The Affordable Care Act has been gradually improving the health insurance market since 2010, but media outlets like CBS Evening News are failing to share the stories of people who benefit from ACA, stories like mine. CBS Evening News is covering a faulty website to cast shame on comprehensive health care reform, but does not give a complete overview of the millions of people who will live because of ACA, people like my daughter, Julia. Please give coverage of the ACA that's truly fair and balanced.
My daughter, Julia, was diagnosed with lupus when she was 21. Under the new law, Julia was able to remain on my health insurance plan until she turned 26. Thanks to the Affordable Care Act, she is currently able to have coverage under the Pre-Existing Condition Insurance Plan (PCIP) through December 31.
We'll be using the new insurance exchanges to sign up because it's critical that people like my daughter Julia don't lose even a day of health insurance coverage, because lupus can attack any organ in the body and can become a life-threatening event at any time. Through vigilant monitoring and medical intervention, we are hopeful that my daughter will lead a long and productive life. But without the availability of affordable insurance, routine checkups, medication, and lab testing will not be available to her.
Unfortunately, the Affordable Care Act, or Obamacare, has been under attack by the mainstream media for more than four weeks now.
Can you sign my petition asking CBS News to report on the real people who are being helped by Obamacare, instead of misleading stories that imply Obamacare is a failure?
Julia's life literally depends on it!
Thanks for your support.
–Selena Martinez
This petition was created on MoveOn's online petition site, where anyone can start their own online petitions. Selena Martinez didn't pay us to send this email—we never rent or sell the MoveOn.org list.
I added:
Health Care for ALL will improve as we go forward and get the for profit system cleaned up ( disposed of? ).
wWHHAATT???
Obama just launched single-payer in America by Willinois
" The insurance companies are now upset. When they cancelled policies they did so with an up-sell of more expensive policies as opposed to encouraging folks to go to the Obamacare exchanges. In doing so they created a political firestorm instigated by Republicans. Now the insurance companies are complaining about the fix disrupting the insurance markets."
President calls GOP and insurance companies' bluff by Egberto Willies
That house is coming down.
I think so - if ( AS ) the average person will stop and look at the facts rather than listen to ( believe ) propaganda blatant lies of the for profit assholes. And in making the for profits state the alternatives ( requiring ) - the average person should be looking at Medicare/Medicade most happily as it offers better coverage at less expense - NOT crappier coverage at higher/exorbitant prices with unworkable/insane deductibles.
It should also raise hell in the states ( all red? ) that are not expanding Medicare.
I agree-forcing them to tell the truth is crucial here. I do think that we are headed for single payer.
It is the sane most beneficial ( for all ) thing to do - so - lets keep our fingers crossed that the public continues to get more involved.
Amanda Marcotte put it brilliantly: It’s kind of bananas, but it really does go back to a very simple misconception that tends to not get talked about openly on the right, in part because everyone already believes they “know” this and don’t have to say it: It’s the fear that if other people get health care, the country will run out and there won’t be enough for them, the people who “deserve” it. That, and they don’t want poor people to get doctors because then poor people will show up in their waiting rooms and they’ll have to sit with them.
And the opposition to this, as she also notes, is that the spin is actually about having the right to rip people off.
EDIT; as for profit rip off is not just spin - there "is" truth in it. But Greed is also a fear of not having enough - taken to extremes.
I can see where Greed encompasses an extreme selfishness in fear of not having enough for that self. So you have those in government supporting not only business but also their selfishness - all in all though I think both are aspects of greed.
Prior to edit:
Amanda - Huh - YEP very insightful -cuts straight through all of the BS and gets right to the bottom line.
Driving force - for profit GREED. Again the plain and simple truth.
Thanks.
Cartoon: Republican alternatives by Tom Tomorrow
That's funny. True AND funny.
{;-])
Though also sad {;-(.......... that so many apparently do not see it.
TWEET
DKAtoday @DKAtoday
The ACA meets the For Profit/Greed system. | http://OccupyWallSt.org : http://occupywallst.org/forum/the-aca-meets-the-for-profitgreed-system/#.UoPmVjqq6jw.twitter …
The ACA requires business regulations!