Forum Post: Thank God-
Posted 12 years ago on Oct. 2, 2012, 3:53 p.m. EST by ShubeLMorgan2
(1088)
from New York, NY
This content is user submitted and not an official statement
Well founded distrust and dislike of Mormonism could make the difference.
That enough rednecks who would not vote for Obama may just stay home.
http://www.commentarymagazine.com/2012/06/13/4-in-10-liberals-hold-anti-mormon-bias/
And enough progressives who are disappointed in Obama will hold their noses and vote to stop the Mormons.
ShubelLM is correct in his assertions about the Mormon religion.It is a supercreepy male supremist,white supremist cult with all kinds of bizarre and disturbing features.I think the cultlike quality of the religion makes its adherents inherently untrustworthy.
Thanks. We have knee jerks here who see an "attack" on a "religion" and scream bigotry. The fact is Mormonism has its beliefs and practices - it's legitimate to learn what they are and form an opinion about them. It's also legitimate to share the facts and conclusions from the study of this cult.
Mormonism is known to involve secret rituals.Any person who is involved in an organization which has secret rituals is not trustworthy.Other organizations which involve secret rituals and policies include Scientology,Skull & Bones,Freemasonry just to name a few.The reason cultlike organizations insist on keeping things secret is almost certainly because there is something drastically horrible or crazy about about the whole organization.Disclosure of the secrets which form the core of a cult would interfere with their ability to present themselves as not being fundamentally outside the mainstream of American culture.
It sure sounds like an intolerance of atheists when all American Presidents must swear allegiance to god
I agree. In courts at least here in NY when one is a witness one can "solemnly affirm" not to tell a lie without God or the Bible. I think that;s best.
Four days later and still a cult.
It is a cult.
What's wrong with that? My grandfather was in a cult, and one day, when mighty Cthulhu rises out of Ryloth to punish the wicked, I'll be laughing at the rest of you.
Seriously, drop the religious bigotry. It's unbecomng of a Liberal.
I am an ex Mormon. Get over yourself.
I love how Mormon's are weird, but you have no problem reelecting a president who believes that a charismatic philosopher was once put to death, magically came back to life three days later and then flew up to another dimension to hang out with his "father" who loves us all but is happy to sit back and watch children die of cancer.
But watch out for those Mormons.
A Bishop speaks - I do not agree with all he says - but he does make a sane statement about man made religion.
A Bishop Describes How The Church Invented Hell To Control People
So why vote for any member of any man made religion?
Did you watch the video? I think not.
Nope but my question stands. If you're going after one religion shouldn't you go after them all? People attack Scientology or Mormonism for having strange beliefs, but how weirder are they than the others?
The important thing here is not that Romney is a Mormon, but that he is a Republican. Some people hate Republicans so much, they'll try anything to stop them from being elected, including preying on ignorant people's fear of anything different. It's cheap politics, but business as usual. So much for hope and change.
Everyone has beliefs.
Everyone.
The object is to find issues and support or oppose them - so to support the people or oppose the people depending on where they stand on issues.
But get beyond elected officials telling us what to believe and to support and get to the People telling them how things are gonna be. This is where the people need to go in the process of getting involved - Direct Democracy.
No problem there. I'm with you. There's just no need to fall back on religious bigotry or scapegoating to get what you want.
Fact : Emotional subjects will be used for the purpose of manipulation.
Fact : People will speak out against manipulation.
Fact : speaking out against manipulation is and will be emotional.
Fact : Humanity is emotional and always will be.
Fact : Arguments will be emotional from whoever is arguing in truth - the best arguments will contain facts that support the argument being made.
Fact : Validity of an argument will go to what is under discussion.
Fact : Personal experience goes far in delivering judgements. Judgements present standing for positions on presented arguments.
Fact : This is the nature of communications in the human condition.
Hello!
Fact: Mormonism is a cult. Period. You either get this or you do not. Make no mistake, I can do a smack down on Christianity and their Zeus. Try again.
Are Zues another cult? Do you hate them? If any of their members are prominent Republicans I bet you do. Otherwise, I'm sure you are just full of religious tolerance.
Get yourself an argument and get back to me. At this point, you just look silly.
At this point I just want to hear you take on Zeus. About time he got what was coming to him.
But leave Cthulhu alone.
What is to take on?
Mormonism is a cult. Period.
And if it is? So what? Christianity started out as a cult.
Christianity is still a cult. People still wear religion because it sells.
You just are unhappy because your man is wearing a shit cult. Get a better argument. I am not going to baby you.
Actually you do just look like a religious bigot. Making blanket statements tends to make one look that way.
Bored, sweet pea? Read up on LDS and get back to me.
You need to watch those blanket statements they make you look hateful and biased. Which maybe you are ok with?
Afraid it might taint your boy?
LDS could almost teach the FBI a thing or two. If that phrase makes no sense to you, then go back and learn about LDS
Such a hateful troll, I don't have a boy on his race. Unlike you I know they are both fucked up and being a dem hack doesn't seem to make you any happier. I would think you would be walking on clouds helping the Obama camp. You really need to find some joy in your life.
I have a lot of joy in my life. :D
You're just the cherry on top.
Sweet, I'm happy to have provided you with a smile.
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I'm pretty sure he didn't know WTF he meant.
I know exactly what I meant.
I know you did. I meant marvel. What the hell is Zues?
a typo
Same typo 3 times in a row.
I like to spread my typos out. I misspelled it once.
I didn't notice that you made a typo. I was referring to marvelpym's repeated typos. I know you're not a "he".
I did, then I edited it.
Thank you.
That's even weirder than Zues. And GirlFriday is a he?
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she and yes, it was actually a nod to a god having "sex" with a mortal.....again.
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It's all good.
Oh my goodness! Now we will scream at religion!
Go back to sleep.
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[-] 0 points by BetsyRoss (-209) from New Hope, PA 0 minutes ago Lets see...the Catholics engaged in what we call "Crusades" in their early history. Are you still holding those against all Catholics? And the early Protestants used to burn people at the stake whom they thought were witches. Still holding that against them? What are you going to do if a Protestant runs for office????? NOoooooooooooo ↥twinkle ↧stinkle permalink
To answer Betsy I'd say "no". Now if I learned of a Catholic who praised the crusades, propagandized for a revival of the crusades I'd not want him or her to be President of the United States even if I agreed with everything else tht person might claim to beleive or support. Ditto the witch burning issue.
Ok, so show me where Mitt Romney praised the Nazi regime or propagandized for a revival of the Nazi regime.
I'll wait.....
The nazi thing is within the lifetime of people still alive- the crusades and witch burning are in fact "ancient history". Show me a Mormon official apology or condemnation or excommunication for their enthusiastic pro hitlerism.for those who were in the lead, I'll let the underlings slide here. I'll wait. Has to be older than 50 years though.
I'm sorry, the Church itself didn't endorse or root for Hitler so it has nothing to apologize for. Church's shouldn't apologize for the wacko behavior of their members when those members act in ways that are not officially endorsed or stipulated by that Church.
I wasn't even born yet in 1933 and neither was Mitt Romney-so that makes us under-underlings.
Slimy slippery fact avoidance. I won't say you make me sick, You make me more determined to do what I can.
No, it's an actual, provable facts. It is your slimy, slippery accusations and opinions that don't qualify as FACTS here, but you just keep on posting them here. They create the perfect opportunity for the actual FACTS to be posted here in response to be examined by all.
http://tinyurl.com/9lhj96k
http://exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,421473,421473 Go to: Forum List•Message List•New Topic•Search•Log In Posted by: steve benson ( ) Date: February 18, 2012 05:52PM More Mormon March Music for Hitler: All in Favor, So Manifest by "Sieg Heil!" Church-Encouraged LDS German Support of the Nazis During World War II . . .
Purposely hidden from view by the Mormon Church for decades is the chilling and abhorrent fact that the Mormon Church actively encouraged German Latter-day Saints to stand by der Fuhrer.
Not only did many German Mormons do so, they did so enthusiastically. The evidence for this is clear, overwhelming, undeniable and unbelievable.
**Below are damning excerpts about pro-Nazi sympathies among World War II-era German Mormons, from Alan F. Keele and Douglas F. Tobler, “The Fuhrer’s New Clothes: Helmuth Huebner and the Mormons in the Third Reich,” in "Sunstone" magazine, vol. 5, no. 6, pp. 20-29:
--"Hitler enjoyed at least as much popularity among German Saints as he did among the population in general. His apparent dynamism and self-confidence seemed to show a way out of the chaos and weakness of the Weimar years. Moreover, as ‘good Germans,' the Mormons were acutely aware that Hitler had risen to power through legal channels . . .
"Some Church members even saw Hitler as God’s instrument, preparing the world for the millennium. Superficial parallels were drawn between the Church and the Nazi party with its emphasis on active involvement by every member . . .
"The vital importance of ‘Aryan’ ancestry gave new significance to genealogical research. And the Fuhrer himself, the non-smoking, non-drinking vegetarian who yielded to no one in his desire for absolute law and order, seemed to embody many of the most basic LDS virtues."
--"Some Church members even saw Hitler as God's instrument, preparing the world for the millennium."
--"Superficial parallels were drawn between the Church and the Nazi Party, with its emphasis on active involvement by every member. The women's auxiliary of the Party and the Hitler Youth were regarded by some as secular equivalents to the Church's Relief Society, MIA, and the Scouting programs."
--". . . [S]ympathy [for some of the Nazi goals] was apparently shared by some members of the [Mormon] Church leadership. The Church's German magazine, 'Der Stern,' reminded its readers in 1935 that Senator Reed Smoot had long been a friend of Germany, and this attitude seemed to receive official sanction during President Grant's 1937 visit. The message to the German Saints was clear: Stay here. Keep the Commandments. Try to get along the best you can, even under some limitations. We want to keep the Church intact and the missionaries working.”
--"The German Saints were not eager for a confrontation with their national government and they were happy to follow President Grant's advice. By and large, the Mormons and the Nazis coexisted comfortably."
--"In their eagerness to coexist with the [Nazi] government, American officials of the German [Mormon] Church resorted to public relation efforts . . . Probably the clearest example of this tendency is an article by West German Mission President Alfred C. Rees entitled 'In the Land of the Mormons.' The article appeared in a special issue of the Nazi Party organ Der 'Volkische Beobachter' dated April 14, 1937.
"In the Editor's Preface to the article, President Rees is called 'the representative of the Church in Germany,' who 'paints for our readers a portrait of Mormonism today, a church which views the New Germany with sympathy and friendship.'
"Whether President Rees originally wrote the article in German or not, the language of the piece abounds in such loaded terms as Volk and Rasse (race), and a picture of Brigham Young bears the caption, 'Fuhrer der historischen Mormonenpioniere.' But the significance of these linguistic gaffes is magnified by hindsight. More disturbing is the way President Rees blatantly parallels Mormonism with Nazism.
"As Rees warms to his topic, Mormonism begins to sound like a fulfillment of Nazi teachings, providing 'the practical realization of the German ideal: "the common good takes precedence over the individual good."' Rees concluded by assuring his readers that 'Mormons are people who put this healthy doctrine into action.' Reading articles such as this, it would have been easy for a German Saint to mistakenly conclude that the seal of official Church approval had been placed on the Nazi regime."
--"[The Mormon] policy of appeasing the Nazis worked well until the war broke out. Despite the classification of Mormonism as a sect 'dangerous to the state . . .' according to Gestapo reports, the Church was not summarily dissolved as many others were. The missionaries remained; the Church continued. Even during the war, Mormon life was disrupted more by bombing raids, supply shortages, and travel restrictions than by official harassment. By and large, the German Saints lived through the Thousand-Year Reich much like the rest of their countrymen."
**Next, a warning from a then-LDS writer and historian about the Mormon Church-owned "Deseret News" being regarded as a likely appeaser of Nazi Germany:
“If the 'Deseret News' is careful not to offend [Nazi] Germany, and I gather … that it is falling backwards on the attempt, it is my guess that first of all the Church is afraid of complete banishment.”
(Fawn M. Brodie to Dean Brimhall, 14 June 1939, Brimhall Papers, Special Collections, Marriott Library; the above citations are available at "Mormon Quotes: A Resources for All Those Investigating, Questioning and Abandoning the Doctrines and Leadership of the LDS Church," under the subhead "Nazi Germany," at: http://www.ils.unc.edu/~unsworth/mormon/nazi.html)
http://tinyurl.com/9lhj96k
not sure if
Lutheranisms had/has an hierarchical system
I never had the intention of taking on or studying all the religiouses who helped the nazis or were nazis. I replied to a ridiculous and mendacious assertion made on this forum that had Hitler encountered the Mormons he would have persecuted them. This is of course ridiculous and patently dishonest given what actually transpired.
I'm glad something is keeping you busy. People view fanatics in such a positive light these days.
Yeah, well google the name Shubel Morgan. Of course I'm not the original and could probably never measure up to his greatness but i like the name. People ought to know who he was.
Shubel Morgan was an alias. John Brown didn't lie, didn't believe in treating others without respect or dignity, and didn't even believe in punishing prisoners without full, fair trials and convictions.
Your behavior here is the antithesis of John Brown's and you bring nothing but shame upon his alias.
Shubel Morgan sneaked into Kansas under an alias so he could kill pro slavery fighters. Three cheers for that! I'm sure you join me in my admiration.
My word, you can't even represent your hero with any accuracy can you?
John Brown "sneaked" into Kansas under an alias-Shubel Morgan
He did so to FREE slaves, not to kill pro slavery fighters. He, nor his men, shot anyone except in self defense you moron.
I don't "cheer" the cold blooded murder of anyone-even those who are guilty of crimes against society-but apparently you do while admiring the people who would do such a thing.
You are disgusting and John Brown would have thought so to.
Yes Shubel was the real John Brown. He wasn't going to free any slaves in Kansas when he went there to fight the slaver scum. He was going to kill slavers and did kill slavers.
So to clarify-you do or do not approve of killing people you disagree with?
As General Sherman - a hero of mine - once said- War is hell.
Yeah, your hero-a man who didn't believe in "Negro equality" and refused to let black soldiers serve under his command. NICE. Oh. And he LOVED the Native Indians too.
"Sherman instructed his army that “during an assault [on an Indian village] the soldiers can not pause to distinguish between male and female, or even discriminate as to age. As long as resistance is made, death must be meted out.” As Sherman biographer John Marszalek wrote, “Sherman viewed Indians as he viewed recalcitrant Southerners during the war and newly freed people after: resisters to the legitimate forces of an orderly society.” Of course, the chaos of entire Indian villages, women and children included, being wiped out by federal artillery is hardly an “orderly” scene. . . ."
http://www.southernheritage411.com/truehistory.php?th=031
I'm so glad you insist on continuing to expose either your blatant racism, your rampant hypocrisy, or both. Please keep posting!
Sherman did a great job on Georgia. I love him for it. Man you confeds are still bitter? "Get over it."
Have the Kennedy's ever apologized for Joseph?
Not to the best of my knowledge. What does that have to do with our discussion? Is this to be your ethical baseline?
Don't worry, Pagans will fix everything.
Is Morman the new Catholic?
Well if Bishop Timothy Dolan were running for President like Bishop Mitt Romney is I'd have a real problem with that. But someone born Catholic who attends mass twice a year in order to honor his parents? Not so much a problem in my view. He'd have to be pro right to chose, and pro marriage equality of course.
God created man
Got let man create religion to keep the crazies out of His way
How do you explain yourself then?
"Rather, anti-Mormon bias is closely tied to education levels and partisanship, Gallup said."
The Mormon lobby gets on posts like this very quickly. God grant that enough Americans do understand the dangers in Mormonism that the cult loses in this effort. I am optimistic in this regard.
God grant that Americans are smart enough to do their own homework and go straight to the source rather than depending upon the waters offered to them by those who poisoned the well first.
I don't find the majority of posters here to be less educated or highly partisan at all.
I hope they compare all the sources of information and I hope that when they learn about Mormon racism, secrecy and cultism they question the next Mormon missionary who buttonholes them just to verify what a pack of liars they are and perhaps to help a cultified zombie find his or her way out of the maze of deception,
I hope they do too. I have no doubt that God directs the honest in heart to the truth and the rest He allows to wander in the delusions of their choosing.
Mormon? I was born a snake handler, and I'll die a snake handler. Bigots like you only encourage us.
Then go play with your snake. You're free to do that in this country.
http://nomormonpresidentnomittromney2012.blogspot.com/
http://www.exmormon.org/lying.htm
Yes we are, no thanks to the likes of you. Next thing we know you'll be all against the Branch Davidians. Go back to your home state you closeminded troglodyte.. The Big Apple just doesn't cotton to hicks.
While I am New York born and raised and lived here all my life except for a military detour I welcome the people you offensively call "hicks" to New York. The bigoted "trog" is you.
as long as they aren't Mormon hicks
I have a feeling that Mormons who come to New York have a big rate of apostasy. I'd rather they be in a place where they might be exposed to fresh ideas and where their influence is diluted than for them to be in their sandy redoubt where they pick Senators for god's sake.
Well don't that beat all...the LDS Church was established in that there New York! And according to the LDS Church website article from last June, "Since 2000, LDS Church membership in New York State has risen 75% to 78,000 people."
My fault for not being clear enough. I'm talking about NYC the place where the world seems to want to be. And like I said out in the sand dunes they pick senators for god's sake. Here they still are diluted and exposed to other ways of thinking and being. Also as they are inveterate liars and self promoters you can bet the ranch that the number 78,000 is a lie and that they don't subtract mormons who just stop attending their insane temple.
NYC the place where the world seems to want to be? How odd when the stats show otherwise. I can't imagine not wanting to live right next door to someone like you!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tourism_in_New_York_City
47 million European tourists this year. How many went on to take a look at the shithole you reside at?
That they came to LOOK and then left says a lot you know?
What makes you think I want 47 million European tourists coming to look at anything near me? How many people moved the hell OUT of NYC last year?
They come back again and again and they come back to stay quite often. That's why the rent is too damned high.
I agree, well founded distrust:
I don't know how many are aware, but the typical Mormon family prays every morning and it prays every evening.
The "First Presidency" of the Church is a triumvirate which consists of a "Living Prophet" and two councilors, who are unanimously elected by a twelve member quorum of "Apostles," who serve for life.
From Gordon B. Hinckley, former Prophet, in his book, Standing for Something: Ten Neglected Virtues That Will Heal Our Hearts and Homes:
“Love is the very essence of life. It is the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow. Yet it is not found only at the end of the rainbow. Love is at the beginning also, and from it springs the beauty that arched across the sky on a stormy day. Love is the security for which children weep, the yearning of youth, the adhesive that binds marriage, and the lubricant that prevents devastating friction in the home; it is the peace of old age, the sunlight of hope shining through death. How rich are those who enjoy it in their associations with family, friends, and neighbors! Love, like faith, is a gift of God. It is also the most enduring and most powerful virtue.”
Very weird... but also extremely articulate; it's a truly inspiring read presented in a nonreligious manner.
Mormons have very large families - ten or twelve children is not unusual - all of whom are eligible for free education at Brigham Young, the university science has entrusted with the decipher of our Dead Sea Scrolls. And as the fastest growing religious organization in America with 14 million members, the Mormon church is very prosperous.
There's a reason they have attracted such a following: the church provides for families in need - they take very good care of their own.
LDS is not polygamous.
Your postings do a tremendous discredit to those Mormons like Helmuth Hübener who forfeited his life in 1942 at the age of 17 to the cause of Nazi resistance.
You do not really know whether or not Mormons are polygamous. What you know is that they say they aren't but this is one area about which they have lied over and over again in the past.
Fast growing they are. Prosperous also. And racist and rightist and secretive and organized. You know they actually manufacture firearms, right?
http://www.buzzfeed.com/mckaycoppins/bloomberg-report-takes-aim-at-mormon-church-for-on
It would take a tremenduous heap of gall for the Mormons to claim Helmuth Hübener as their own. He produced an anti Nazi leaflet and was caught and arrested. At that point his Mormon Church, whose leader was an ardent Nazi, excommunicated the seventeen year old boy. There actually was an uproar about this in Nazi Germany. There were some Nazis who thought it would be excessive to execute this boy for what could be seen as a youthful lack of judgement but the Nazis went ahead and beheaded this boy. The Mormon Church never lifted a finger for him but in 1946, after Hitler had been eradicated, the Mormon Church in Utah, not in Germany, reversed the excommunication. They are known of course for their weird and insensitive practice of baptizing the dead of other religions, including Jews who were murdered by Nazis even though the Mormon Church had cheered the Nazis when it mattered the most.
"You know they actually manufacture firearms, right?"
Do you even read the crap you link to or do you just lie out of force of habit?
The story was about gun sales taking place through online classified ads between private individuals, not "the LDS Church" and individuals etc, and NOTHING in the story even mentions "manufacturing firearms". One on one private gun sales are LEGAL in Utah no matter what medium connects the buyer and the seller.
"Websites are becoming the new gun shows," Bloomberg said in the group's statement. "Most gun sales are perfectly legal, including sales on the Internet. But until the background check law covers all gun sales, these websites will continue to be used by criminals to slip through the gaps." Salt Lake Tribune Dec 16,2011
http://tinyurl.com/8ttd56b
Yes officially the church just traffics in selling guns across state lines to people who might or might not have gun licenses and might or might not be planning crimes. true enough and not directly in their manufacture as such. Just Browning does that.
This is an example of Mormon ethics that ranks up with the mormon banks backing the Kosher Nostra's development of Las Vegas gambling casinos and whorehouses when no other legitimate banks would go near them. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jonathan_Browning
ROFL-
You linked to an old book in which someone (a woman who apparently isn't LDS) recounts a conversation with another person (a man who supposedly attended a church meeting) who said that the church was planning to manufacture guns and black powder.....
WOW. Since when has hear-say been acknowledged as established fact? EVER???
The CHURCH owns the broadcasting company of which KSL is a part. The KSL website has a classified section, just like ALL newspapers and websites usually do, AND individual citizens can post their guns for sale on the site and/or purchase guns from the site. Or not. The Church does not regulate, encourage, oversee, transport or profit from such transactions. So...how exactly are they "trafficking" guns in any way except within your deluded mind?
I'm sorry-your link shows that Johnathan Browning, a man who already manufactured and repaired guns joined the LDS Church. It also said that he owned/established a shop of his own in Utah. It doesn't say anywhere that he ever, EVER build guns for the LDS Church. His son, John Moses Browning became the well known gun manufacturer, but again, he does not work for the LDS Church.
YOU are the one who just celebrated a fantasy about a man killing others-who has the ethical problem here?
Ask for a fact check date from the - CIA, NSA, FBI, your local police department etc. OH - don't forget to ask if they want to believe it 1st as to that possibly making a difference and possibly change the designation from hearsay to intelligence.
WOW. Since when has hear-say been acknowledged as established fact? EVER???
ROFL-is "intelligence" accepted as established fact? Or just intelligence?
Just sayin - hearsay by another name is referred to as intelligence gathering. Then assholes declare war over what they want the hearsay to be rumor or fact. Refer to shrub & staff and the War in Iraq.
Rumor, hearsay, intelligence-the reason they have other words for such things is because they can't call them facts.
How can you say that we don't know? We know upwards of 50,000 couples are polygamous in Utah but they are not LDS. And I know this because I have friends in Alpine.
Everyone aided the Nazis, it was do or die. Mormon was not the defining factor here; they were first and foremost, German. Your attack here would be akin to an attack on the Roman Catholics of Bavaria; it's bizarre.
When I refer to "Mormons" I am speaking of Mitt Romney's church, the ones who call themselves Saints.
Your second remark really deserves a post which I might put up. You are pissing on the graves of brave Germans, French, Italians, Danes, Poles, Ukranians, Russians and others, citizens of Germany and other axis countries as well as countries that fell to Nazi occupation, those very brave people and REAL SAINTS, not like you or your Mormon friends resisted at the risk of their own lives and the lives of their families, not to mention the graves of the soldiers who died at Normandy, Monte Casino, Stalingrad to defeat the regime your "saintly" friends in that day ardently supported even providing the nazis with genealogical data with which they determined "who is a Jew."
Although I support the anonymity we enjoy on this forum in this case I wish yours would not be because gays, blacks, Muslims, even Jews and Latinos and trade union activists and progressives ought to know that you could never be a true friend of theirs, that you would sell them out when the spit hit the fan. You've as much as said so right here.
Ps- I never came to this forum to link the Mormons to the nazis-- one of your cohorts made the ridiculous and mendacious assertion that had Hitler encountered the Mormons he would have put them in camps-- what an outrageous lie given what really happened. I've rebutted that lie and am gald of it.
You raise a good point, is Romney LDS?
The Mormon church had been classified by the Gestapo as dangerous to the state; their attempts to appease were in defense of their own lives. The German people had no real choice, it was do or die. And it was a sentiment most often expressed to teenage boys.
It doesn't really make a difference, this is a partisan attack on LDS and rather despicable. What if Romney was Jehovah Witness? Would you have the audacity to attack that too? Never mind, I already know the answer to that.
facts have a habit of not going away. There were indeed resisters, true saints among the Germans and those who lived in other axis countries and in occupied countries. Some gave their lives and some survived. The Mormons were not among those. Your effort to credit this poor seventeen year old boy who was abandoned to the nazis by the "saints" and your effort to excuse what they did falls flat in a forum that's dedicated to courage and doing what's right.
One word: Partisan!
because it's already been said:
http://tinyurl.com/9lhj96k
Regardless of what religion he professes, I could care less.
Mormons have the right to practice their religion, just the same as you, I, or anyone else. Most fail to get it through their thick skulls, religions are man-made for the benefit of uplifting the human race, no more, no less..
What man does with those concepts are his individual choice and his free-will. Yet, to use ANY religion as a reason to subjugate, harm, murder or annihilate any human being or race is sacrilegious!
NO, there is no right to practice any religion. There is a right to believe any religion. That's why for example when an Orthodox Jew passes away and is buried in a cemetery he is placed in a casket. This violates Jewish religious teachings but it happens to be the law in these parts, so that "practice" is proscribed. This is also why Mormons profess to have ended polygamy in their ranks (very likely a lie) because the civil law in these parts proscribe it. It gets tricky with Mormons because they are a secretive cult with layers of initiation and they practice dishonesty "religiously." It's hard to outlaw lying but individuals like myself and others are still free to work at exposing the racist lying Mormon cult. How much longer we'll be free to do so I cannot say.
http://nomormonpresidentnomittromney2012.blogspot.com/ http://www.exmormon.org/lying.htm
Are you anal or what?
I can point out many, many, many, many racist lying cults, but always know this....... According to the rulers of Great Britain and other European countries, America was founded by such a cult.
Remember? Escape from religious persecution?
How quickly we forget...
Me thinks you need some deprogramming!
Go back to your school of psychiatry or more likely "social work" (Chuckle).
Well, Halleluiah, you realize you do need mental help, at least.
Your problems go far beyond anything social... Yours stem from pure reality, kicking you in the ass.. When one realizes that there is no future ahead of them... Well...watch out...they come out blasting with both barrels. Good luck with your war on self.
http://tinyurl.com/9lhj96k
LOL.....that was truly original....I gotta try that....but actually the reality is... "Slimy slippery fact avoidance. I won't say you make me sick, You make me more determined to do what I can."
Let me add...more determined to do what I can to expose phoneys such as yourself who come on here to perpetrate and perpetuate hatred and murder against others, for whatever reasons you believe you have in order to hide you and your kinds true agendas.....
Mormons aren't the nations problems.....it is the money baggers and whore-mongers who indoctrinate individuals such as yourself in order to keep the scaremonger shyt alive and kicking for their own greed....DUMMY!!!
Wake up and smell the Bull Shyt! Save yourself!
Mormons constitute a very dangerous element of the right. These are simply the facts. But tell me more about my true agenda...
In my great, great grandparents days, as I have been told, those who donned sheets at night, did every unspeakable act to keep many people and nations of color under foot, raped the women and men, kept then illiterate, hungry and poor by devices of murder and fear tactics weren't called Mormons then.. Nowadays, you can call them Corporate America or politicians with suits on. But whatever you want to call them, their tactics haven't changed, now have they? Are only Mormons riding with the KKK, the Neo Nazi's, the Christian radicals, Islamist Jihads, Men who love boys on these shores and across the globe, Asian child porn rings, white slavery everywhere, and the list goes on and on and on, men of all color, who murder their wives and girlfriends. Don't you think you should include all subversive hate groups while you continue to beat that dead horse?
The fact that Mormons aren't the only racists and that Mormonism isn't the only odious philiosophy doesn't exempt them from scrutiny. Given that one of their leading lights is on the cusp of grabbing the white house it does matter and should be of interest that the man is a mormon. It ought tobe of concern as to just what being a mormon means. As there are not so many people working at exposing them I don't feel that I'm beating any dead horse. People who find about Mormonism tend to be in a state of shock thinking of what it means for one of them to pecome president by a vote of the American people. It's really something that any progressive person ought to want not to have happen.
Would that apply to Catholics in the White House as well? Just asking.
I've said it before. A typical Catholic who goes to mass 2, 3 times a year to show respect for their family's heritage, no problem. If like that shithead from Pennsylvania whose name escapes me who said that he would try to ban contraceptives, BIG BIG problem. Bishop Cardinal Dolan running for President like Bishop Romney? BIG BIG BIGGER PROBLEM.
Whew! I'm am so happy that you can show me examples of how NOT to think!
Please, do continue your self righteous tirades... It truly helps those of us who know we have the gifts of sound reasoning and logical thinking processes! LOL...
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!
Oh lordie...I sure hope you are "free" to print that website forever! It's a brilliant filter for finding out which people want/like to believe in wacked out lies and slander so much they just trust in your little website and links to be the most accurate and factual representation of what Mormons believe, and those who want/like to know the facts about what Mormons believe for themselves and keep going to the actual source of Mormon beliefs-www.mormon.org.
Please tell me what religion YOU embrace so I can check out what you believe for myself too ok?
"actual source of Mormon beliefs-www.mormon.org." Ask a liar about his truth? No, I don't think so.
http://occupywallst.org/forum/thank-god-/#comment-847508
This is why no one with a brain would believe anything you say or post on your own website. :-)
I do what little I can to help the cause of stopping the Mormon takeover.
Good for you.
What religion do you belong to? Why do you keep hiding that fact?
I've told you once and will tell you again- I consider myself to be a deist, a believer in God as Einstein saw God to be. That means I'm not a member of a church or follower of any clergy.
Thank God indeed. If we let a Mormon in, next thing you know the Jews will think they have a shot.
Sarcasm alert sarcasm alert sarcasm alert
but you get my point.
[Removed]
Yes, I do. You know nothing about Mormonism. Or you do and you want to defend the indefensible posing as an ignoramus.
I know tons about it. I saw that musical and loved it. However, don't let me get in the way of your religious bigotry. You have a right to be intolerant and unenlightened.
http://nomormonpresidentnomittromney2012.blogspot.com/
http://www.exmormon.org/lying.htm
http://www.hoolinet.com/History/IfAdolfHitlerhadaBlog/tabid/412/Default.aspx
http://www.hoolinet.com/History/HitlersBlogII/tabid/432/Default.aspx
He'd likely be supporting Mitt Romney. He might even had turned Mormon once he'd have learned about it.
He'd have rounded them up and sent them to camps, while you applauded with a small tear of joy running down your face.
Either you know diddly squitt but like to talk or you're a mormon style liar.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/2820757/posts
LDS Church, through Church News, praised Hitler, Nazi Germany Ogden Standard-Journal ^ | Dec. 13, 2011 | Doug Gibson Posted on Thu Dec 15 2011 11:04:42 GMT-0500 (Eastern Standard Time) by Colofornian
(To see Cal Grondahl’s cartoon that goes with this post, click here) History is blunt. Left to itself, it doesn’t spin or gloss over unpleasant facts. The positive side to unvarnished history is that it can prevent future mistakes. There are many examples in history of religions enabling evil. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is not an exception to this rule. A glance at the Dec. 9, 1933, LDS “Church News,” published with “The Deseret News,” contains a particularly unpleasant “puff piece” on Nazi Germany, and its leaders, Adolf Hitler, as well as Joseph Goebbels.
It’s titled, “Mormonism” in the New Germany,” and penned by the unfortunately over-enthusiastic Dale Clark, is grotesque in its effusive praise for Hitler. Here is an example: “As a specimen of physical endurance Hitler can easily take his place along side the athletes who are usually taken as classic examples. His 14 year struggle which brought him to power in Germany put him to a terrific physical strain (sic). Besides the great responsibility there has been trials and conflicts, and campaigning so strenuous that it has required his attention night and day, many times making it necessary for him to travel great distances by auto or plane, catching up on his sleep underway to fit him for the multitudes who would gather to hear him wherever he had time to stop.”
It’s amazing today to read such a sidling, fawning account of the 20th century madman, and I wonder if the Nazis controlled or edited what Clark submitted from Germany. The alternative is even worse to comprehend. In other parts of the article, the author sycophantically points out similarities between LDS Doctrine and Nazi Germany. Readers learn that Hitler and Goebbels lead “Word of Wisdom”-type lifestyles and do not drink or smoke. Also, the German custom of “Fast Sunday,” where Germans fast and donate the cost of the missed meals to a winter charity fund, is extolled for its similarity to Mormonism. Clark writes, again in press-release style, “… it has the important purpose of developing that spirit of sacrifice that is so being stressed in the new Germany, and also of creating more of a feeling of unity and brotherhood through voluntary mutual help.”
Early in the article, Clark writes, ominously, that religious freedom flourishes in Nazi Germany, except for “a few sects (which) have been prohibited or restricted.” We can guess at least one people of faith persecuted in Hitler’s Germany at that time — the Jews. And this leads to the most disturbing part of Clark’s national hagiography: finding a missionary moment in Nazi Germany’s persecution of Jews. After detailing previous difficulties to get access to Germany’s archives to do genealogy, Clark writes, “Now, due to the importance given to the racial question, and the almost necessity of proving that one’s grandmother was not a Jewess, the old record books have been dusted off and stand ready and waiting for use. No questions are asked. In fact some of the Saints instead of being refused by the pastors now have received letters of encouragement complimenting them for their patriotism.”
It is impossible to read that and not shiver with repulsion at why the “old record books” stood ready and waiting for use. Clark’s effusive cheerleading for Nazism is a dark moment in LDS history. But, as mentioned, it is history, delivered in a blunt, pure fashion. It underscores the enabling that many organizations, religious or otherwise, used to have a presence in the heart of evil. Church President Heber J. Grant, no doubt worried about persecution Mormons might receive, urged members in Germany in 1937 to get along and not cause problems. Another disturbing example — as late as 1939 — of Mormon enabling of Nazism was remarks in a Nazi media organ written by West German LDS mission president, Alfred C. Rees. Like Clark, Rees enthusiastically compared Nazism with Mormonism. (1)
There are more courageous exceptions, of course. One Latter-day Saint who stood up to Hitler’s rule was Helmuth Hubener, who died a martyr at 17, tortured and beheaded in 1942 for belonging to an anti-Nazi group and publishing anti-Nazi leaflets. Hubener, who is the subject of a Gunter Grass novel, was first repulsed by Nazism as a boy when he witnessed anti-Semitism in his local ward. Hubener was quickly excommunicated by local authorities. However, his excommunication was later reversed by LDS authorities, who said local German leaders had not followed proper procedures. According to historians Alan F. Keele and Douglas F. Tobler, Hubener’s leaflets show that the teenager regarded his opposition to Nazism as a component of his religion. Hubener’s final words to the judges who sentenced him to die, “Wait. Your turn will come,” underscore his courage and resolve.
Hubener’s branch president was a fervent Nazi, who played Hitler’s speeches at the branch. Another branch member, Heinrich Worbs, was tortured at a concentration camp for calling a state-honored Nazi a “butcher.” Worbs, according to Keele and Tobler, was so physically ruined after his detention that he died months after release.
Clark’s article from 1933 fascinates me as much for its style as its repulsive cheerleading. It contains several examples of modern totalitarian propaganda efforts, that were also used, and refined, by Soviet-led communism. There’s the effusive praise for the leaders, praise for the party (in one instance Clark uses the phrase “originality and political genius of the Hitler party” to tout relief efforts in Germany), and the use of the terms “voluntary” and “unity” as propaganda phrases. For an example, go back to the third paragraph of this piece, where Clark writes, “… it has the important purpose of developing that spirit of sacrifice that is so being stressed in the new Germany, and also of creating more of a feeling of unity and brotherhood through voluntary mutual help.” One more example of modern propaganda includes Clark’s description of posters from youth Nazi organizations against tobacco and women’s cosmetics.
As mentioned, blunt history can also be a teaching tool. It’s doubtful the ugliness of Clark’s Church News article would ever be repeated today. Unfortunately, when adverse history is not blunt but is instead de-emphasized, massaged, or rationalized, it can be repeated. To read the Dec. 9, 1933, Deseret News and Church News, go here.
(1) Keele and Tobler, Sunstone, November/December 1980.
http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=Aul-kAQHnToC&dat=19331209&printsec=frontpage
LOL. Wow man. You are obsessed. Battle not with Mormons, lest ye become a Mormon.
What happend? A Mormon dump you? Were Donnie and Marie playing in the background while you were being molested? You might want to seek help.
I'm one who discovered Mormonism by reading about them and trying to have a discussion with a couple of cow eyed Mormon missionaries who were absolutely allergic to their own church's history. My interest was re awakened by Mitt Romney's rise to the Republican nomination. Knowing what he is and what his "religion" is I perceive a real danger to this country and to the world in Mormonism. I'm glad to share this information widely as I can and I hope I'm making a contribution to the defeat of this racist secretive dishonest cult in their current power grab.
You get free Mormon head or what? How is it you are so interested in my opinions about them?
harry reid ( democrat senate majority leader) is a mormon.
IMHO he serves as a PR face, a "critical" and "good" Mormon whose being is supposed to disprove that the cult is overwhelmingly racist and its ideology unmistakably so. But Mormonism is sophisticated and if they can control their own opposition it works out well for them. When Reid made the remarks he did about Romney's taxes he did two things for Romney- he discredited the entire issue and he diverted from the question of whether Romney is hiding outright illegalities that were amnestied in 2009.
"Mormonism is sophisticated and if they can control their own opposition it works out well for them"
Lord Voldemort operated the same way and he was scary as scary could be
who the fuck is he? http://www.goodreads.com/quotes/38974-the-best-way-to-control-the-opposition-is-to-lead
Joseph Smith's right hand man. Deeply involved in the dark arts and, possibly, a Nazi. I thought you knew your history. Guess not.
racist? mia love is black and a mormon.
yeah, I heard.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7-qiaBY6cd8
Jeanne Tripplehorn looked great on that HBO show, so I guess that won me over, but anyway...
Good luck on your quest to cut those devils down, de Torquemada. Keep Christianity pure for the rest of us.
If I had to name my "faith" it would probably be "deist" or "believer in Einstein's god." I don't put much stock in bible stories but I'm convinced there is a "higher power" and that all that we are in the midst of (the universe or multiverse) is not a coincident.
Shhhh. Don't let Shube hear that. God only knows what he thinks about deism.
ShubeL and me go way back, didn't you know?
Did you two meet at Creedmore? :)
PS- you really didn't have much to say about the Mormon - Nazi connection. Why is that? http://occupywallst.org/forum/thank-god-/#comment-847508
You think I'm gonna read all of that? I got things to do. No time to waste on the ramblings of a madman.
Then shut up your stupid ignorant mouth why don't you?
Cause this is a lot of fun.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/45229913@N05/6511498857/
Well then. If someone made a cartoon about it, then it just has to be true.
Oh my hell...I just read the article referenced and it does NOT read at ALL like this post says it does! I'll just point out one example of the many-
The post above says that Clark was "fawning and sidling" over comparisons between the LDS Church and the Nazis.
"Also, the German custom of “Fast Sunday,” where Germans fast and donate the cost of the missed meals to a winter charity fund, is extolled for its similarity to Mormonism. Clark writes, again in press-release style, “… it has the important purpose of developing that spirit of sacrifice that is so being stressed in the new Germany, and also of creating more of a feeling of unity and brotherhood through voluntary mutual help.”
The ACTUAL ARTICLE paragraph 2 shows Clark being told by a German friend living in Danzig that the Nazi party was so desperately trying to recruit German citizens that it pretended to "invent" something called "fast sunday" as a way to do a charity drive. Of course the principle of Fast Sunday collections was something the Mormon church had been doing for a long time. The other Germans thought it was brilliant Nazi idea, the German familiar with the Church knew it was manipulation intended to make the German people feel "united and part of the "New Germany" Hitler was creating. In other words-Clark is pointing out the propaganda machine already at work.
Read the actual article and come to your own conclusions.
It's clear to me the Mormons were pro nazi, and the ones who were persecuted were those who broke ranks on this. But as if you were a Mormon yourself you pick through the article to miss the point of it preferring a tree to the view of the forest.
Germans, and white people, and Catholics and Protestants were pro nazi too...in fact the Nazi's used the churches to establish themselves with the German people.
Why doesn't your website attack all such people??
Tell me what religion you belong to so I can check it for Nazi sympathizers!
We're talking Mormon News published in the US circa 1933. Liar, deciever, evader apologist that you are. And the assertion was made here that Hitler " would have"persecuted the Mormons. Didn't happen in the real world though. http://occupywallst.org/forum/thank-god-/#comment-847493
http://www.flickr.com/photos/45229913@N05/6511498857/
That's not exactly true... Helmuth Hübener was 17 years old when he was beheaded for distributing pamphlets in an attempt to organize Nazi resistance. The words of the tribunal that tried him: "after the Jews, the Mormons will be next."
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1cto6mRGInk&feature=related
No, you're talking about ONE article written and published in the Church News published by The Deseret News in 1933. Never, ever, in the history of the LDS Church has the Church News been considered a source of doctrine or theology no matter how you lie, spin, evade, or attempt to deceive.
Oh...and just so you know-Both Tobler and Keele were are ARE STILL members of the LDS Church-so apparently Clark's article didn't make them change their minds about their religion. Weird huh?
Mormons are notoriously weird. And like you also deaf and dumb to such an issue as their historical pro nazism.
They are weird: they pray in the morning and they pray in the evening.
The "First Presidency" of the Church is a triumvirate which consists of a "Living Prophet" and two councilors, who are unanimously elected by a twelve member quorum of "Apostles" who serve for life.
From Gordon B. Hinckley, former Prophet, in his book, Standing for Something: Ten Neglected Virtues That Will Heal Our Hearts and Homes:
“Love is the very essence of life. It is the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow. Yet it is not found only at the end of the rainbow. Love is at the beginning also, and from it springs the beauty that arched across the sky on a stormy day. Love is the security for which children weep, the yearning of youth, the adhesive that binds marriage, and the lubricant that prevents devastating friction in the home; it is the peace of old age, the sunlight of hope shining through death. How rich are those who enjoy it in their associations with family, friends, and neighbors! Love, like faith, is a gift of God. It is also the most enduring and most powerful virtue.”
Very weird... but also extremely articulate; it's a truly inspiring read presented in a nonreligious manner.
Mormons have very large families - ten or twelve children is not unusual - all of whom are eligible for free education at Brigham Young, the university science has entrusted with the decipher of our Dead Sea Scrolls. And as the fastest growing religious organization in America with 14 million members, the Mormon church is very prosperous.
There's a reason they have attracted such a following: the church provides for families in need; they take very good care of their own.
LDS is not polygamous.
Your postings do a tremendous discredit to those Mormons like Helmuth Hübener who forfeited his life in 1942 at the age of 17 to the cause of Nazi resistance.
Lets see...the Catholics engaged in what we call "Crusades" in their early history. Are you still holding those against all Catholics?
And the early Protestants used to burn people at the stake whom they thought were witches. Still holding that against them?
What are you going to do if a Protestant runs for office????? NOoooooooooooo
Gestapo: August, 1942: "after the Jews, the Mormons will be next."
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1cto6mRGInk&feature=related
Helmuth Hhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helmuth_H%C3%BCbener
Reply to yobstreet above post-
Just a few corrections:
Not all Mormons have very large families, especially the 10-12 number. Wayyyyy to high.
And NO LDS children are eligible for free education at BYU unless their parents work at the University.
The Church also contributes millions of dollars in food, clothing, etc per year to other countries and those in the US who are victims of natural disasters. These people do not have to be "LDS" to benefit from the Church's charitable organizations.
I actually have a Mormon friend in Alpine that told me education was free for her children; perhaps her husband works for the University? I never asked.
First the Jews, then the Mormons... those were the words of the tribunals to the LDS missionaries of Germany.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helmuth_H%C3%BCbener
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1cto6mRGInk&feature=related
The nazis never persecuted or molested the Mormon Church. No doubt there were nazis who didn't trust this American born and American based cult, but the fact is they were never molested.
I think you would have difficulty here, affixing any more blame to the Mormon than to those of the Roman Catholic. Helmuth served as the example of defiance; he was beheaded with the above words, at 17.
As you know when the nazis arrested Helmuth the Saints rapidly excommunicated him,. When even some Nazis objected to the seventeen year old's execution by decapitation, the Mormon saints stayed quiet - busy working no doubt on the genealogies that helped the nazis find out who had a Jewish grandmother. Had your pro Mormon cohort not made the ridiculous znd mendacious claim that Hitler would have persecuted the Mormons I did respond but that never was the intent of this post- to take on all the nazi collaborators - just to set the record straight- that Mormons were ardent collaborators of the nazis.
Everyone in Germany was an ardent supporter, or they died.
Hey you know....that musical was offensive to Mormons because it mocked things that are sacred to them. I must have missed the protests and screaming and blowing things up and riots!!
I think Mormons are more savvy than that. They want as little attention to their actual beliefs and practices as possible especially in these times that are crucial to them.
"They want as little attention to their actual beliefs and practices as possible"
I guess all those tv commercials were made by accident.
Yeah, like mylong time buddy froggy said http://occupywallst.org/forum/thank-god-/#comment-847554
Mormons lie. Religiously.
No, made to deceive.
Hum.....then why do they send 50,000 missionaries a year out into the world to every country possible and dress them all exactly the same and tag them? Seems so counterproductive to that whole idea to make them so easily recognizable...
And what are "these times" crucial to Mormons exactly?
You night not have heard but Mitt Romney is a leading Mormon who descends from one of the original 13 scamsters. He is the nominee of the Republican Party to become President of the United States. This is a sensitive time for them. Yes they send out their young and sometimes naive liars to spread deception. That's part of the danger of them.
Leading Mormon? As in what? He doesn't "lead" the the LDS Church.
http://nymag.com/news/features/mitt-romney-mormonism-2012-10/
http://www.salon.com/2012/01/29/mitt_and_the_white_horse_prophecy/
http://www.buzzfeed.com/mckaycoppins/mormons-plan-to-fast-for-romney
http://tinyurl.com/9lhj96k
Um, being a bishop over a local congregation is not the same thing as leading "the LDS Church". That's like comparing a local priest's authority to the Vatican's. Nope.
Well, Willard is a descendant of one of the original cohorts and co conspirators of the crook and liar Joseph Smith which honor puts him in high regard among his co religionists. many of them are declaring days of fasting to help him along with their mormon god. They believe he is The One of the White Horse Prophecy of the scamster Joseph Smith. Now, Willard has no roots in Utah but when the Olympic games there needed to be rescued why do you think it was Willard who as called on? Because Willard could get things done in Utah! Why? The Mormon Church with whom he is so deeply connected dominates that state. A few well placed phone calls coming from the right person could work wonders over there.
I'm sorry, where is the study that provides any basis for your wild assertion that Romney's lineage automatically puts him in "high regard among his coreligionists"?
As far as the White Horse Prophecy goes- "The so-called 'White Horse Prophecy' is based on accounts that have not been substantiated by historical research and is not embraced as Church doctrine." - Kim Farrah, representative from Church Public Affairs
http://en.fairmormon.org/Joseph_Smith/Prophecies/White_Horse_prophecy
Mitt Romney's expertise in finance and law are what saved the Olympic Games, not his religious beliefs, and choosing him was obviously the right thing to do.
"Kim Farrah, representative from Church Public Affairs" Liar in chief. http://tinyurl.com/9lhj96k
People can see in Romney himself the low regard Mormonism has for truth and facts.
It's Ninja reverse pyschology. If they are everywhere, then they are nowhere. C'mon, it's all in Revelations, man. End of days. Pod people bursting out of the ground. 2 Broke Girls renewed for a second season. You've been warned.
Now THAT....that was funny right there....
Shube is a modern day Cassandra. We'll all regret not heeding his warnings.
Lol. They are a safe target.
It's actually very positive about religion. Basically it's about how no religion can stand up to having it's details closely scrutinized, but that you can still have faith and get someting positive out of it. I'm an atheist, but I could go along with that.