Forum Post: Tax The Church!
Posted 13 years ago on Oct. 11, 2011, 11:06 p.m. EST by mrsbblack
(102)
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If there was a 3% tax placed on churches and other similar organizations - this could greatly reduce the national debt. When a church catches fire, WHO puts the fire out?! The fire department - that the tax paying people pay for!! So, if the churches don't pay taxes, why should the fire department even show up? (just an example, and no - I would never want them to just "not show up" I'm just making a point) www.purpleblogspot.blogspot.com - share your ideas to help our country.
I think OWS should pay taxes on our donations! Just like you are proposing for churches.
I am an outspoken atheist and I think that churches and mosques should pay taxes... but I would NEVER advocate that be a stance for OWS. Lol, if that was one of our demands we wouldn't last an hour.
Nope. The power to tax is the power to destroy.
What about a wife tax for Mormons? Economy would pay for its self after a couple of sister wives....
http://www.au.org/media/press-releases/archives/2011/10/first-baptist-jeffress-letter.pdf
No. Obviously it's going to be Unconstitutional, but more specifically it's just plain crazy. I'm not religious at all, but to demand of priests that they pay money for what they see as doing their service to God is crazy. Should their religious practice be hindered or regulated by government whatsoever through paying taxes? And once we tax churches, how about synagogues, mosques and etc? Or how about any Buddhist, Hindu or Sikh temples that may dot America?
Technically, through eliminating their federal and state tax burdens, they are already being regulated by government (the tax-imposing entity). Both positive and negative regulation is still regulation.
well, yes - it would obviously have to include all religious groups. can't just pick and choose. Any other ideas on where money could come from? Churches is a touchy and difficult subject... but it's a start!
http://www.au.org/media/press-releases/archives/2011/10/first-baptist-jeffress-letter.pdf
if you're going to do this, then all of the nonprofit NGOs need to be taxed - this is where much of the richest americans hide their money to shelter it from revenues.
however, i agree with comment below that it is unwise from a separation of church and state standpoint. then the government comes to rely on taxes from the church, and the church has influence. wasn't that what happened before the protestants rode around and killed a bunch of people? i'm just sayin...
Would you be able to explain what you mean by the term, "shelter it from revenues?"
Here's one - since the 1970's foundations have proliferated and have been criticized by many as being nothing more than tax shelters for the very wealthy
http://www.newsrealblog.com/2010/05/29/gates-billion-dollar-leftism-part-three-tax-shelter-or-philanthropy/
Do you understand why individuals are able to deduct charitable contributions against their taxable income?
I think it's because much of the salary very wealthy people have is NOT in the form of income, like the lower and middle classes.
http://www.thedailybeast.com/newsweek/2011/05/01/an-empty-offer-from-the-super-rich.html
Here's a synopsis of a Frontline special entitled "Tax Me if You Can" about how the wealthy use offshore accounts and tax shelters of all kinds to avoid paying the taxes that the middle class pays.
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/tax/etc/synopsis.html
I also found this article that talks about how since foundations are tax-exempt, you can park a large part of your wealth there. Admittedly, this article is biased - they are blaming the Clintons, but you get the idea http://www.taxrates.cc/html/06g-us-tax-shelters-clinton.html
You didn't not even touch upon my question.
yes, the separation of church and state would be a huge deal breaker... I'm just looking for new ideas for money to come INTO the country. For too long jobs are just leaving... nothing is coming in. We don't need to CUT spending - we need to increase it! Taxing new things (churches, nonprofits) just seems obvious to me... even if it's a small amount (3%) it would help!
Do you understand the difference between cutting spending and increasing revenue?
How do you impose an income tax on a not-for-profit organization? Employees of the church who receive a salary already pay taxes the same as the rest of us.
They are a corporation, so you simply tax them like a for-profit entity. I don't understand what you mean. Payroll tax and federal/state tax are two totally separate items.
They already pay property taxes do they not? What taxes do you purpose they pay if not income tax?
No - the original poster is suggesting that tax exempt entities start paying tax. Again, payroll tax and property tax has NOTHING to do with this. Count it out. They are completely separate expenses.
To reiterate, you tax them simply by imposing a tax. What do you mean "how do you impose an income tax on a not-for-profit organization?"
What would be the justification for targeting churches with a tax unique to them?
That was already stated in the original post. That is not what you and I are discussing here. Oh my god.
So, the justification is that if a church catches fire, a fireman puts it out so churches should pay an additional 3% tax specific to churches? I think that is very weak, lol If people don't want governing based on religion, then they shoudn't advocate taxing based on atheism or anti-christian sentiment.
No, the argument is "tax entities that use public resources." This has absolutely nothing to do with governing based on religion. And the argument is not simply churches, but all tax exempt entities.
I have thought a lot about this. I think if we are going to have true separation of church and state, then it is not fair to tax them.
However, I do believe we should have the F.B.I. and I.R.S. keep a much, much, much more close eye on how churches use their public spaces. As soon as your church is recorded organizing in any way politically, they have to pay taxes for that year as if they were a business.
Compromise?
Seperation of church and state is not in the constitution or in the declaration of independence. It was a line taken out of context in a letter from thomas jefferson to congress.
The original text reads: "...I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should 'make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof,' thus building a wall of separation between Church & State." Jefferson reflected his frequent speaking theme that the government is not to interfere with religion.
I don't think that's out of context.
As for churches being used for political purposes the other way around, "in 1954 that Congress approved of what has become known as the “Johnson Amendment.” The provision, which still stands today, explicitly prohibits 501(c)(3) organizations (churches and charities) from engaging in campaign activity."
I am for putting this into the constitution.
It's out of context, because what they left was Britian where their church was government controlled. The statement was meant to protect the religous freedom of the church from the government, not for the government to shun all things christian.
Not just shun all things christian, but islamic, jewish, hindu....
What if a hundred years from now there's a muslim or scientologist majority? I don't see how Christians think they are the only ones who would get their prayer meetings into congress.
If you read the declaration and the constitution and you think that it is an obvious endorsement of a primarily christian nation, then I think you probably had LSD for breakfast. It's obvious to me they are trying as hard as they possibly can to justify their ideas with anything but the bible or any other religious document.
And further if you are looking for a weakening of the wall between church and state at this point in history, I'm like wow, WOW, how can that possibly be even on your top ten list of priorities.
I'm working on 25 amendments and laws and separation of church and state hasn't made it onto my priorities list, even though I think a large percentage of churches in the united states should lose their non-profit status because they actively promote political parties.
Religous freedom is only important if your rights to religion are being attacked & right now christianity is under attack worldwide. People are losing their jobs for their faith & in other countries people are being put to death for their faith.
You will find no support for your global religious superiority movement. Islam feels under attack, Judaism feels under attack, heck, why don't you all just go to an island and nuke yourselves as far as I am concerned. I want nothing to do with you all fighting each other to try to impress your gods.
And christians oppress everyone in the united states, I've been watching it my whole life. Now you play the victim, it sickens me.
People like me say we would rather have an inclusive winter holiday and you (are probably one of the ones who) claims we are going to war against christmas. Plus the right to teach ideas contradictory to science to children!
Keep your religion away from me please. I hope you can see how this is not an effort on my part to try to eliminate it.
great idea :)
Thanks! Good questions deserve good answers. I heart separation of church and state.
How many followers do I need to be recognized as a Church? Seems like a good way to take tax payers' money. I should get working on ideas for a new religion.
isn't that the purpose of scientology? ;)
Tax them...why? What would you do with the money? In many cases the churches would need to take the $ from the social services they provide. Do you think the bureaucrats would deliver those services more efficiently?
Amen.
3% right into public education. nothing more - nothing less. Kids should come first!
My argument still holds. The current public education system is as inefficient as any other branch of government.
Hear, hear! The Churches have been betraying us for 2000 years, why should they get bonuses like the Wall Street bandits?
Thank you! Why should there be "mega" churches with thousands of people pouring their money into the church and none of it goes towards very important programs, such as education! Could you imagine how the public school system could be turned around if 3% tax from churches was funneled right into the education system?! I can bet money that the church go-ers wouldn't mind! Their kids use the system!
The tax they already pay via property taxes pays for the education system their children may or may not use. Next.
Doesn't anyone have anything to add to this? I know I'm not the only person on OWS that agrees to taxing the churches. -or anything else for that matter, that isn't being taxed. A flat 3% isn't a whole lot! 3 cents on the dollar! Sales tax is double!
And so many so-called "churches" are so totally PHONY! So many teach the so-called "prosperity gospel", which is pure Mammonism (worship of Money)