Forum Post: Tax Resistance
Posted 13 years ago on Oct. 4, 2011, 10:16 a.m. EST by ToriAlexander
(32)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement
I think it's time the Occupy Wall Street movement starts organizing a mass tax revolt. We have had taxation without representation for too long. Let's get a legal team together so that the 99% can offer the IRS letters of objection instead of payments on April 15th. There are a number of tax resistance and war tax resistance non-profit organizations that can help us get started. You could donate your tax to a worthy charity of your choice instead.
@kestrel 1
If you have most of the money -you should pay most of the tax-
Unfortunately, very wealthy people will never pay much income tax, no matter how many regulations you come up with. It's their business to find ways to move money to foreign banks and/or get around the tax code. If we switched to a consumption tax instead of an income tax, the wealthy might pay more of their fair share. That's one possible solution. Higher corporate and income taxes just drives businesses and wealth overseas. I think it's a better idea to remove the mechanisms that created this economic disparity (namely the Fed Reserve in collusion with the IRS). Take the wealth away by not allowing them to get it in the first place. Forget taxing it.
Yeah are healthcare, living wage, and free university going to be considered charities now?
Many hospitals used to be charity-run. Now they are all for-profit. We used to be able to buy into affordable local health insurance co-ops that were member-owned and did not give profits to stock holders. But these have been regulated by the Federal Gov't out of existence. We will not have a living wage as long as we have the Fed Reserve printing money for cronies and driving down the value of the dollar. The Federal Gov't is too big to be held accountable. The Federal Gov't is not a democracy but a federation of states. States are democracies. If we distribute authority to state and local governments the people will have more power.
An excellent response, and I agree with it all. The motive of profit is not the demon here though, it's when a government take a monopoly of any Institution, it makes it very easy to corrupt, history has proved that most governments take that easy opportunity too......
Yes, I should have said hospitals are for-profit AND subsidized by medicare and medicaid. I support free-market capitalism, especially employee owned companies. The only problem with allowing the consumer to be the regulator (instead of the fed gov't) is that US consumers are not well-educated these days. There will no quick fix to this problem. I may be a Libertarian, but I think we probably need to exercise some Socialist impulses to solve the problem initially, like helping poor school districts hire better teachers. No one solution is perfect.
I think you underestimate the people, they may be dumbed up a little from having the government "solve" all their problems, but they will do fine when the have to accept responsibility
I'm really encouraged by what's happening downtown! Maybe there is hope.
History has proven that people are predominantly good! Protests I'm not sure about but it's good that people are accepting the corruption anymore
No taxes here dude.
I strongly oppose a tax revolt. The government is the best institution we have for checking the power of the markets and maintaining a social safety net. A tax revolt would mean the government would be unable to perform these vital functions. Unregulated markets would seize control of every aspect of our lives; those who are unable to stay afloat will be left to drown.
Instead, I support strengthening the government's power over markets. That means: (1) Tax the rich. (2) Regulate markets. (3) Prosecute white-collar crime.
But it also means that we must pay the taxes we owe to the public as well.
Well, actually we've already tried what you propose and it's been an absolute disaster. Tax the rich and they'll move their money overseas, no wait, they've already done that. Regulate the markets and attract lobbyists to corrupt the gov't. Oops we've already done that. Prosecute white-collar crime. Don't see that happening as long as the criminals have control of all that tax money. Stop feeding the monster. Tax revolt!
Your misguided proposal of a tax revolt is based on an exaggerated diagnosis of the problem with the present.
The rich have found ways to avoid paying taxes on a lot of the income. But, even so, the wealthiest 1% of the population is paying 38% of the total income taxes collected; the wealthiest 5% is paying 58% of that total. So, no, taxing the rich is not hopeless. It's actually how the government is getting most of its funding already.
I'm not even sure what fault you see with attempts to regulate the markets. Sure, there are lobbyists for corporations (and there are also lobbyists for consumers). Regulations get passed nonetheless. Dodd-Frank is now law, for instance. But that doesn't mean we can rest on our laurels. Much more needs to be done to reverse 30 years of deregulation.
As for prosecuting white-collar criminals... This would not harm the government's ability to collect taxes from them. They will continue paying taxes on whatever they earn. What's more is that the guilty will pay hefty fines for the damage they caused, which would constitute further income for the government.
So your dismissal of real solutions to real problems is really baseless.
Meanwhile, I wonder about your silly proposal of a counterproductive tax revolt: who exactly are you asking to participate in this? Are you asking the empowered rich whose interests are well represented by their elected officials to participate? If so, you're essentially calling for a gift to those in power. If not, you're only going to affect a small percentage of the government's income. I don't know what your proposed theshold is, but the wealthiest 50% of Americans pay 97% of the total income taxes collected.
You are saying that what we are currently doing would work in theory if we could just control corruption. Good luck. The "wealthiest" 49% of US citizens are people making $40K-$160K. That's the middle class. http://www.socialsecurity.gov/cgi-bin/netcomp.cgi?year=2009 Do you know what happens when you give your income tax to the federal gov't? Let's look at health care. My child is on Medicaid. I was given a choice of a half dozen big insurance companies to choose from. Every time he goes to the doctor or gets medicine, Big Pharma and the insurance company collect a huge fee from you the tax payer. Let's look at free school lunch programs. Every time my son gets a free meal of sugared-up milk and white bread junk food, industrialized agriculture gets a huge payment from you the tax payer. But most of your tax money goes to the industrial military complex. There is a reason why we have such great economic disparity in this country and it's because all our good intentions and fears have been hijacked by the 1%. Sure tax the rich, at the state level where you actually have a democratic government. What we need is affordable health care, not free health insurance.
I'll take your wish of good luck and leave it at that, since there's nothing of substantive value in your proposal and the only fault you see with mine is the demonstrably false belief that it's impossible.
47% aren't paying any taxes to the IRS anyway. Shouldn't you be organizing an effort to send in extra money instead? I thought the demands called for more tax revenue to pay for all this "free" education and health care.
This process has just start ... we all have demands ... we are all working together on the demands and how we are going to achieve them ...
The middle class is shouldering the tax burden. I think there are a lot of different people with different ideas about how to fix the US. But we all seem to agree that 99% of the people do not have representation and as long as we keep feeding the monster will tax dollars, it will continue. I happen to side more or less with Ron Paul on most issues. I don't support "free" government funded one-size-fits-all education and health insurance. I support affordable education and health care. Government subsidies encourage corruption and have ruined education and health care. I think local governments and charities could do a more efficient job of taking care of the old and disadvantaged. I do think that all views needs to be heard and considered. Consider this, Ralph Nader, Dennis Kucinich and Ron Paul agree enough to have intelligent discussions about plans for reform. We could follow their examples.
Top 10% pay 70% of the taxes... hardly on the middle class.... especially when middle class is defined as under $200K per year.
Most middle class are wage earners. According to 2009 w2 figures, the top 10% starts at 80K per year. The top 25% starts at 45K. The top 49% ends at about 160K. http://www.socialsecurity.gov/cgi-bin/netcomp.cgi?year=2009. I would guess the disparity was worse in 2010. If you consider capital gains earnings then you are getting into those who really know how to reduce their taxable income and the numbers will be deceiving. If OWS doesn't speak for the middle class than it will never get the broad support it needs. Your federal income tax dollars just use the public assistance programs to subsidize health insurance companies, banks, big pharma, and industrial agriculture. Go ahead campaign for higher taxes. That's just what the 1% want.