Forum Post: tax cuts for middle class modernize roads and bridges invest in middle class not banking class by raising minimum wage thats the oocupy wall sreet message
Posted 13 years ago on Oct. 12, 2011, 1:14 a.m. EST by oceanweed
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tax cuts for middle class modernize roads and bridges invest in middle class not banking class by raising minimum wage thats the oocupy wall sreet message
Learn economics
Anyone who thinks that building infrastructure, roads, bridges, schools, ETC actually creates any wealth or jobs....
PLEASE do yourself a favor and study economics. I'll even save you the trouble and give you a quick lesson.
-1 + 1 = 0
Look at all the infrastructure that we already have? In the case of these things being boosts to the economy (increasing GDP), we should be vastly rich. Obviously, we're not (at least, relative to the debt), so how could this be the case?! It can't, and it isn't. Government doesn't ever create anything because everything the government has it has to TAKE from somewhere to begin with. EVERY enterprise is starting at a negative, and rarely does anything even break even or, even rarer, turn any sort of profit. At best, the gubmint is a parasite, leeching off of people who produce and create (be they businesses, or individuals).
stop the fox spin arent you forgetting our goverment has two different sides dems dont stop wars so republicans wont stop food stamps its time to get republicans out of goverment so america can see its true freedom and peace
I'd like fox news, and republicans, to go away forever. I'm confused on what part of my writing you didn't read right. I'm talking about economics and basic math. I'm not talking about made up political paradigms.
havent you heard of the new world order there no stopping it now you have so many non believers and atheist in the movement that they dont know this whole time they have been controlled not clear a mob dirty stupid not knowing why they are there by the demonic aura thats why I beleive that a one world goverment without republicans will truly be freedom
bro, two keys over from the "m" key is the period key. Looks like this "."
Don't be afraid! You can use it!
tax cuts for middle class modernize roads and bridges invest in middle class not banking class by raising minimum wage thats the oocupy wall sreet message
it was a good try!
Thats the DNC message. The OSW movement encompasses more than simply those who support your proposed ideas. The movement is broader than that and as such, requires a broader message. Let us fight over our ideological and philosophical beliefs after cleaning up our elections and lobbying laws.
http://occupywallst.org/forum/the-central-message-we-need/
what you are saying has no republican leader support second from the start ows has been democratic republicans have done nothing but demonize the movement stop the fox spin
This is not a DNC movement. Period. If you believe it is, please go to the camps and occupations I've been through and tell that to the anarchists, libertarians, constitutionalists, socialists and marxists who make up the trenches of this movement.
The Democrats as a party are as corrupt as the Republicans. Both take corporate money hand over fist, trade legislative goals over for reelection funding promises and sell out public wellbeing to the corporate state at every turn. The only difference is they pretend not to be doing it while Republicans make it a central part of their platform.
This is not a DNC movement. It is bigger than that.
tax cuts for middle class modernize roads and bridges invest in middle class not banking class by raising minimum wage thats the occupy wall street message
Again, a considerable portion of those who ARE the movement, would not agree with you. I may even agree with you, but they do not and this movement is bigger than any particular agenda. It is about a systemically broken system. One in which voices ranging from those standing on soapboxes lecturing about the need for single payer public health care, right down to those saying "end the fed," are all drowned out beneath corporate influence.
The signs out in the streets don't say "invest in infrastructure and cut middle class taxes," nearly as much as they simply say "end corporate greed" and "end corruption in government."
Yours are DNC talking points and mainstream American liberal ideas and between the two of us, I agree with them and even surpass them in radical idealism. But this movement is not about those. Not yet.
What it is about is fixing our system so we can argue these points on their merits as opposed to which industry, which interest, which party is backing them.
not one time has a protestor disagreed with me only online
And how many times and how many protesters at how many protests have you pushed for this? Have you approached the people with the Ron Paul signs? The black flag? The greeniacs?
Again, I'm not even saying the message is wrong, but not even that will do anything but find its way to being coopted by the DNC and major unions, who are all chomping at the bit to take over this movement.
What this thing is, is a true mishmash of sidelined popular ways of thinking. Radical ideals from all over the spectrum, all frustrated with a government that refuses to change a bit regardless of which party or which new "change" leader we vote for.
One that plays into the hands of private interests which also range in terms of professed ideological loyalty for money and ignores the popular arguments held by the people. One that presents a two party dog-and-pony show on a corporate dime in which next to nothing is ever actually discussed and rage and division is intentionally manufactured to perpetuate their sick and expensive games.
So before we go trying to push for that which politician after politician has promised and never delivered there, how about we go after the root of why they don't. Lets attack the roots of corruption where they lie with allies who we will battle furiously with over the role and nature of governments and societies and over the duties of the individual to a collective, etc, etc, etc...
We'll do that later, once we've gotten ourselves to a point where such endless arguments will actually matter.
but i dont see republicans you re type of marixsit radical view is small and are losing to demands of the middle class no way will ows support a republican
OWS shouldn't support any Republicans or any Democrats. They're the same goddamn thing. Both are corporate puppets, playing simply to the finances of their campaign donors and voter bloc leaders.
Yet another reason this movement should remain headless. So as not to be subject to lobbying pressure and legislative horse trading. I'm not a Marxist, nor a Democrat, nor a Republican nor a Conservative. I'm not here to talk about what I am. I'm here to talk about this movement. And it is NOT a DNC movement. Democrats are half the problem. The other half is just more obvious about it.
the middle class is hurting and you want to draw it out while people lose their homes and jobs im glad your view is not the majority tax cuts for middle class modernize roads and bridges invest in middle class not banking class by raising minimum wage thats the occupy wall street message
And you want to come to an independent movement comprised of various ideas and shill the talking points, which though valid, are still simply the electoral promises and pledges of Democrats who do the exact same things and play the exact same games as their counterparts, while hampering the advancement of corporate hegemony of our sovereignty and public institutions by means of attempts to appear not to? No thank you.
I bought "change," and saw none. Wall Street insiders appointed to the highest offices of regulation of the financial industry, perpetuating the failed policies set out over decades of slow and purposeful corruption. Bush administration hold overs in droves. And a willingness to sell out the substantial parts of legislation in nonsense compromise efforts with elements seeking to continue the status quo at every turn.
I was a loyal Democrat and worked for years as a consultant and organizer for them and their affiliate PACs. But now I realize it will take more than the less of two evils to see real change. The youth in the street, myself in the street without being paid...because we want something new and something that works. The Democrats and Republicans have both had their chances to show me and show us that and they've failed.
So yes, we need middle class support mechanisms, infrastructure investment and a complete reevaluation of the minimum wage and social orchestration...but that is not what this movement is about. Its about our overall common dissent with the failed system we live within. That and that alone. Because we won't be hijacked by party, union, company, consultant, leader, speaker or charlatan of any stripe. This movement will speak with a human microphone of over a thousand cities and will say with one voice, no more corruption. No more of the same.
how can you ignore the hostage taking and racial comments by the tea party keeping america divided and stopping dems from doing any good obamas heart was in the right place for trying to give all americans healthcare first but as soon as he did republicans started attacking trust me majority of ows knows this and do support this he will use this energy with or without you and your so called supporters to destroy the republican party
How can you think Democrats can or will do anything about any of that?
The Tea Party is irrelevant. The corporatists are irrelevant. The two corporate parties are going to be irrelevant. This is the beginning of a movement. Not simply a vehicle to get more corporate shills reelected.
You need to learn to think bigger. That or you're on a payroll, in which case it doesn't matter and I wish the best of luck to you in recognizing what a whore you are. No offense, but I speak from experience.
because republicans have done nothing but demonize our movement while democrats have been here from the start
Democrats hovered at the edges watching, then decided to try to latch onto it to score underclass electoral points. It has nothing to do with supporting the movement. They want the movement to support them.
dems know that tax the rich get money out of politics or end wars have never been republican ideas and still arent
I'm sure they all know it, but none do it. The wars are still going. Money is still in politics, tax revenues are shit and expenditures are just as shitty. They and the Republicans are barely different. They both bow to the same interests. If you don't believe this you are either woefully ignorant or willfully so.
arent you forgetting our goverment has two different sides dems dont stop wars so republicans wont stop food stamps its time to get republicans out of goverment so america can see its true freedom and peace
A corrupt one party government doesn't smell of peace or freedom to me friend, but best of luck with your message. Its a big tent here, so cheers.
havent you heard of the new world order there no stopping it now you have so many non believers and atheist in the movement that they dont know this whole time they have been controlled not clear a mob dirty stupid not knowing why they are there by the demonic aura thats why I beleive that a one world goverment without republicans will truly be freedom
Exempt payroll taxes on first 20K.
I am all for tax cuts. Tax cuts for all who pay taxes, not just for the middle class alone. Raising taxes in our current economic conditions is only going to make things worse. Raising minimum wage is akin to raising taxes on businesses both large and small. Like the rain that falls from the sky upon the mountains, so taxation falls upon the rich. Like the mountains that sheds the rain, so the rich will shed the taxes. And like the water rushes down the mountain side, washing away everything in it's path, finally coming to settle in the low places, where the middle class and working poor reside. So it is the same with taxation..
the republicans say we have no money when corporations have had record profits for the last 12 yrs second bill clinton left with a surplus due to the tax rate he had on the wealthy stop the fox spin
What is the "banking class?" That's a new one.
millionairess and billionaires who get through loop holes by cheating the bank system
What does having a net worth in the millions and billions have to do with banks? What loop holes are you talking about? Really, WHAT are you talking about?
there called fraud investments hiding money in off shore accounts thats why the ows are protesting
Who hiding what money in what off shore accounts for what purpose? You have to be more clear.
look up mortgage crisis enron scandal our how about go down to wall street and talk with the people
I understand what the mortgage crisis was - people taking loans they could not reasonable afford. And I understand the Enron scandal - executive management committing fraud, and a relaxed auditor not being fully independent from the client they were engaged with. The Enron scandal was regulated via the Sarbanes Oxley Act in 2001 and those corporate executives who knowingly committed fraud were brought to justice.
Neither of those situations that you mentioned has anything to do with either, "loop holes by cheating the banking system" or hiding money in off shore accounts. And you still have yet to define this "banking class" term you've used.
You have no idea what you are talking about even a little bit, do you?
your missing the point of ows from start we have stated bring the wall street scumbags to justice for the mortgage crisis and banks who got bailouts your fox spin will only drive more hatred for republicans
I don't watch Fox news. You're completely lost and appear to be unreasonable, uneducated and uninformed past the point of no return.
what do you watch cant be the news
I really don't watch anything. Maybe a few quick snips of reports at various websites, but nothing major.
You still have yet to answer a single one of my original questions.
why dont you watch anything you should so you can know whats going on around because Im teaching you like a baby
Ok - I'm not going to continue this.
tax cuts for middle class modernize roads and bridges invest in middle class not banking class by raising minimum wage thats the oocupy wall street message
ax cuts for middle class modernize roads and bridges invest in middle class not banking class by raising minimum wage thats the oocupy wall sreet message