Forum Post: Stopping trolls dead in their tracks
Posted 13 years ago on Nov. 17, 2011, 7:22 p.m. EST by unimportant
(716)
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I found that if you ask a question about personal responsibility and that ends the discussion with a troll immediately.
Ask them if they believe in personal responsibility so much then why do people that have never had a loan, never owned a home or those of us that pay all our bills, why do we have to bail the banks for the bad decisions they made to loan people money that could not afford it?
Make them answer it, they can't and so stop responding.
home foreclosure should be bailed out
I want to fix the core of the problem. After this is done then everybody can get legislation on the books to correct the results of this.
We are only going to get one shot and I want to make it count.
spare me the "now or never" rhetoric
Do you see another way or another opportunity?
Responsible people that have never had a loan,
never owned a home or those that pay all their bills,
are made to bail the banks
for loaning people money that could not pay back.
Why do I have to spend a dime helping bail out banks or any other company? We pay our bills, why are my taxes used to support a failing bank?
why do taxes go to bombing foreign countries ?
Because politicians are bought by special interests (banks, military profiteers). Aren't we all on the same side?
Because you have no control over your country.
Corporations and Wall Street own politicians, period. Why not go straight to the source. Not to worry, once organized and leaders are picked millions of Patriot's will descend on Washington and change the broken system, remove career politicians, eliminate lobbyist and special interest groups and take back our country.
We are not just another right-wing or left-wing political group...
We Are The People and our demands will not be ignored...
I wrote a Constitutional Amendment that does exactly this. I am still figuring out how to incorporate public funding in the amount of $100.00 per contributer.
http://www.nycga.net/groups/political-and-electoral-reform/docs/amendment-28-to-the-constitution-of-the-united-states-of-america
Read the amendment and provide feedback.
The banks created the largest land grab in American history. They have stolen homes from those people that lost their jobs due to the situation they created. Bush spent us into a deficit because he wanted pay-back for his dad, using lies and deceitful false concocted information.
I want to fix my Country. To do this I have to figure out what the problems are. Bush, Clinton, the banks are the facilitators, the legislators are the facilitators and I am more into fixing the problems.
Removing all private money from the electoral and legislative processes except from the individual is the only solution I could find. It will not fix everything but it will put this country back in the hands of the individual.
I agree, but the fox is in charge of the hen house and there is no way to fix this, they will not allow it. The only way is to replace it.
Follow the Constitution but replace the government
Remove all career politicians, one-term only, patriots instead of politicians, make donations of any sort illegal, all persons running for office will be given the same exact amount of campaign funds, elections will be paid for through our taxes, to-big-to-fail banks need to be broken down to state run local banks, flat and fair tax on all people, no loopholes for corporations, the list goes on and on...
There is a call for a national Boycott and General Strike for Black Friday and extending the Boycott to Christmas. If the turnout for these Boycotts are strong then it will be easier. If the OWS grows in people and support it will be easier.
I never said this would be easy, it is something has to be done. We are Americans, we do not run from our duty. Fixing our country is our duty.
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What about the Mortgage Brokers, Appraisers, Inspectors, Buyers and Sellers who conspired to raise prices of homes beyond market levels. To raise their commissions, increase their sales profit, decrease their initial financial positions in particular properties, make sales to people they KNEW couldn't afford the payments....and what about the people themselves, the ones who accepted ARMS, Interest Only, Balloon, and No money down loans to buy their homes? where is their responsibility? You like to blame the banks, how about the people who didn't pay their mortgages as they committed to....Do they have ANY responsibility in this?
If there is an Constitutional Amendment to remove all money from the political process except that of the individual, the politician is beholden to the citizen and better laws will get drafted.
The banks knew all these things before they made the loan. It is their responsibility to make sure those they loan money to can pay it back. It is not my responsibility yet I am paying for it.
We attempted to refinance a couple of years ago, before the home values went to far south, and was turned down. We have good credit, no past due bills, no late payments, a good credit rating and a decent income. We also put 20% down on each home.
I am supposed to be understanding?
I'll answer your questions...they are simple:
First, no one "bailed out banks"....the banks were given loans, which have been mostly paid back...so that argument is out.
And, thank the Democrats in 1997 for INSISTING that the criteria of the Community Reinvestment Act in the Financial Modernization Act of 1997...(the one that repealed the separations of Glass Steagall, passed on bipartisan support and signed by Clinton) for creating the mandate than loans MUST be given to those who didn't have the credentials to qualify under normal conditions. You can thank the Democrats, and specifically Charles Schumer of NY for brokering the deal that included those low standards
So, the bottom line is that "Wall Street" isn't the problem, Pennsylvania Ave is the problem...you should be there protesting, and not demanding all the free giveaways listed in the post blaming "they" for all the trouble in the world.
You are a bald faced liar or else terribly misinformed by bald faced liars.
The law that repealed the section of Glass Steagall that you are referring to is called the Gramm Leach Billey Act.
Who are Gramm, Leach & Billey?
Well, for starters:
Wow. Look at all those Rs. That stands for Republican, right?
More fun facts about Phil Gramm:
William Philip "Phil" Gramm (born July 8, 1942) is an American economist and politician, who has served as a Democratic Congressman (1978–1983), a Republican Congressman (1983–1985) and a Republican Senator (1985–2002) from Texas. He was a senior economic adviser to John McCain's presidential campaign from the summer of 2007 until July 18, 2008.
In 1984, Gramm was elected as a Republican to represent Texas in the U.S. Senate. He defeated Congressman Ron Lawl, former gubernatorial nominee Henry Grover, Robert Mosbacher, Jr., of Houston, and lots of other contenders in the primary. He then faced the Democratic nominee, State Senator Lloyd Doggett of Austin in the general election for the right to succeed retiring Republican Senator John G. Tower. Gramm polled 3,116,348 votes (58.5 percent) to Doggett's 2,207,557 (41.5 percent). Gramm was the first U.S. Senate candidate in the history of Texas to receive more than three million votes.[2]
Gramm served on the Senate Budget Committee from 1989 until leaving office in 2003. Gramm and Senators Fritz Hollings and Warren Rudman devised a means of cutting the budget through across-the-board spending cuts if deficit-reduction targets were not met. They were successful in making the Gramm-Rudman-Hollings Act law, although portions were ruled unconstitutional. In the years following the passage of the Act, other sections were largely superseded by other budget-controlling mechanisms.
Some economists state that the 1999 legislation spearheaded by Gramm and signed into law by President Clinton — the Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act — was significantly to blame for the 2007 subprime mortgage crisis and 2008 global economic crisis.[9][10] The Act is most widely known for repealing portions of the Glass–Steagall Act, which had regulated the financial services industry.[11] The Act passed the House and Senate by an overwhelming majority on 4 November 1999.[12][13]
Gramm responded in March 2008 to criticism of the act by stating that he saw "no evidence whatsoever" that the sub-prime mortgage crisis was caused in any way "by allowing banks and securities companies and insurance companies to compete against each other."
ZOMG BLAME THE DEMOCRATS! You partisan ass.
I did type the wrong year...it was 1999, not 1997 (I was discussing the cap-gains rate cut in 1997 with someone earlier today...honest mistake)
Wow....you are quick....and dumb, yep..I know who sponsored and co-sponsored the bill, are you aware of the voting record on the final law?
PL 106-102 became law when the Conference Report (where the differences between Senate and House Versions are resolved) voted on and President Clinton signed it...and the roll call vote was 90 to 8 in favor (with 2 not voting) 38/7 Dem...51/1 Rep in the senate, 362 to 57 in favor 153/50 Dem...207/6 Rep. You don't find many Laws that pass with that level of support, from both sides.
As for Gramm's comments in 2008, how about Barney Frank, and Chris Dodds comments long before the crisis came to a head, saying that Fannie and Freddie were fine, in the face of questions by the Bush43 administration and John McCain?
Right, I'm dumb and you're a liar who is now trying to save face.
Partisanship is not going to solve a thing.
The problem is, many of "us" are willing to see the damage both sides have been doing but too many like "you" will defend the Republicans to the death because it is all about partisanship to you, not about actually improving anything.
I didn't 'Blame" democrats...for the financial modernization act, I blamed them for the inclusion of the community reinvestment act criteria in loan approval...which is true. Feel free to check...
I have no need to save face....everything I said was true, except the year
Try checking the facts, instead of looking for an excuse for ad hominem attack...you might learn something
Corporations and Wall Street own politicians, period. Why not go straight to the source. Not to worry, once organized and leaders are picked millions of Patriot's will descend on Washington and change the broken system, remove career politicians, eliminate lobbyist and special interest groups and take back our country.
you really think that's possible? or that it's different now than it's ever been? FDR received a huge amount of funds from Wall Street (as did Smith, who ran against Hoover in 28)
The solution is not about money, it's about character......if a candidate runs as pro business, it's not corruption if he votes pro business
Then Fannie May and Freddie Mac came back for more. Whitewater during Clinton terms and so on. First you made a mistake in thinking I run down any party lines.
I want to fix the country by giving it back to the people. I don't want any loans forgiven, I don't want a handout from any body.
I am a proud republican...but, I am not supportive of the leadership of my party...but it does come down to parties, because they have different goals, the members AND the leaderships. Every person gets a vote, no lobbyist or corporate interest can take that away. Career politicians DO need to go, political pensions need to go, then we'd get different candidates, and if they don't do what they're sent to do (by the majority of voters) then they get replaced...simple. Hanging out with a bunch of similarly unsuccessful people, chanting, banging drums, waving signs, bothering productive people, and being a nuisance is not going to change anything.
I am an American before anything else.
yeah, me too...Republic-an I am a Constitutional Originalist....rule of law, as defined by the Constitution. That is "American"
That's right and the rest was to go to MainStreet. It didn't. I hope we're this eager when election time comes. We can over come this capitalistic pig congress!
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Easy to answer. The government was not going to let the top banks in the country fold. The result would have been catastrophic. The banks were loaned money and they repaid the money back with interest.
In other words, and your own words, no personal responsibility to these banks.
The lesson you are trying to impose on the banks by letting them fail would result in more damage to the nation and the people who have accounts or own stock in the bank. Did you oppose the bailout of Chrysler by the government or did you want them to fail to learn about personal responsibility?
I have no investment in wall street, I don't care if the banks fail, none of them hold any paper for my loans. Why should I have to pay for the misdeeds of these banks, the poor insight of those that have accounts with them or took loans out with those banks?
If Chrysler made poor decisions why do I have to pay?
I would have let them fail. It would have only marginally impacted me but would have taught them the personal responsibility they demand in and from everybody else.
It is always the right wingers I hear demanding everybody be responsible for their actions.
I didn't agree w bailouts and I don't agree with your tactics.
What exactly are my tactics you disagree with?
Free campout for 2 mos that takes away Zu whatever park from ALL OTHER New Yorkers, let alone the inconvenience to the neighbors there. Lack of an agenda, but that is the hallmark of anarchy. I came to this site a few days ago to try and understand what ows is all about. Sadly I have come to the conclusion that the movement is just a knee jerk to a bad economy similar to the Marxist nonsense that never gained a foothold during the Great Depression. You act like this country is no better than Russia, China, Cuba, N Korea.....The people are downtrodden? Tell me what country you'd rather live in? This Marxist crap has been tried multiple times in the last 100 yrs. Where has it reulted in the Utopia you think you are entitled to?
First, I am not in NY and second the Park is for all people's use, including protesters. Contrary to popular belief there is no agenda, there is. It is to fix the country. Everybody has their own opinion and therefore their own fix.
When you say, the United States is great because it is better than Korea, Russia or what ever country you want to. It is comparative logic, this is great compared to that.
Because this country is okay does not mean that it cannot be the Country cannot be made better.
Consider this. The founding fathers never intended for business to have access to the legislative and electoral process. Now they have pretty much unlimited access to our state and federal legislators. They can support any candidate or piece of legislation they so desire.
i1183 in Washington was backed by Costco to the tune of 22.5 million. This is not a debate about the merits if the initiative but the unfettered access to funds to force through any legislation they want, to fight legislation in Courts they disagree with.
That is what this fight is about for me. I pay my mortgages [note that is plural] on time and pay all my bills on time. I wrote a Constitutional Amendment to fix what I outlined above but it will require American Citizens to want to make our country better to get it forced through congress and to undue the damage the Judicial System has done.
If you want to read it and give me your thoughts and ask any questions, I will try to answer them.
http://www.nycga.net/groups/political-and-electoral-reform/docs/amendment-28-to-the-constitution-of-the-united-states-of-america#comment-9200
I still do not agree with your tactics and that is what started this exchange. I DO agree with some of the individual OPINIONS of ows'ers about what the whole thing is about, but the face of the movement is nothing but a mob mentality, or as I have said before, WOODSTOCK ON STEROIDS. As to 'comparative logic', unless you believe UTOPIA is truly achievable the US is as good as it gets. There is room for improvement. I deplore the influence of money in politics. But your tactics won't change this. The park IS FOR EVERYONE, not just the mob that has planted their flag and declared it theirs. OWS seems to have deep pockets. They need to compile a list of REASONABLE, ACHIEVABLE, ACTIONABLE items and get thee to K street. LOBBY for change. We have a system. It's not completely broken. Work within it. You're much more likely to garner more support if you do. In fact, I would suggest working w the TEA PARTY on your shared goals. Wouldn't THAT be a force to be reckoned with. Money needs to be taken out of politics.
Again, unfortunately, I truly believe the forces behind this movement want nothing more than chaos and anarchy. That is their only goal. Martial law will be declared in the major free camping cities. I think we agree more than disagree about what the movement SHOULD BE.
First, there are idiots in every group. OWS is no different. I had a Police Officer a CLO, friend of mine tell me the pool for police officers is drawn from the pool of the public and so there will be idiots hired as officers.
We were talking about an officer telling my tenant they could kick my front door for a rental.
The government made bad decisions. That's what you are missing. The government is where you should be protesting.
I am writing a Constitutional Amendment to remove power from big business, because the founding fathers never intended them to have a plate at the political table, let alone owning the table.
After you are done with it, sprinkle some bud in it, roll it up and smoke it. That's as about as far as it will go.
Sorry to inform you, because you are misinformed, I don't drink or do any drugs. Don't even smoke.
You are free to sit on your hands and do nothing if you like. I choose to work to make my country a better place for those that come after me.
"better place" comes from within. Your approach is futile and will never work.
Then it is no skin off your nose if I work to do it right.
Well, I guess that proves I am not a troll. I will honestly answer any question you put in front of me.
Unless you are admitting to be a sock "puppetsofsorron" you never answered the question. That makes a troll or a sock puppet, which is it?
I don't even know what that means. Are you going to try your anti "troll" tactic on me or not? I thought you were going to ask a series of questions.