Forum Post: Something personal about me, and Obama is a SOB.
Posted 12 years ago on May 25, 2012, 7:19 a.m. EST by factsrfun
(8342)
from Phoenix, AZ
This content is user submitted and not an official statement
I don’t like to get personal on here, I don’t think antidotal is the best method for developing policy. I would like to clear something up, Barrack Obama is a SOB, no doubt the man lacks moral fiber. I could go into details as to how I come to that conclusion but it is based on simple things and many of you know far more complex and well reasoned paths to the same end than I could provide, I will leave those to you. What I do want to say is a little personal story, (I’m sure this is the right thing to do given the recent attacks), for over a decade my best friend was a sociopath, not the wink oh he’s a “sociopath” I mean a murder two people and bullet through the head after twelve hour standoff kind of sociopath. So I know a bit about what I’m saying, Romney is a sociopath, you say so what so was Bush, well yes he was, and look what happened. I am telling you a man that can hold another man down and shave his head then forget about it, is a sociopath.
He also strapped his Irish Setter, Seamus, to the roof of the car for a 12 hour trip from Massachusetts to Canada. If that isn't sociopathic, I don't know what is.
The dog's taken over the thread!
People love dogs, dog is God spelled backwards, is not an accident.
(if you want the meaning of life give me a PM)
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Obama actually act dog so i guess Obama is a sociopath. Plus your story is not accurate beau. Romney's dog wasn't strapped to the car, the crate that the dog was in was strapped on the car. The dog went on to live a long life with the Romney family, probably more than Obama can say about the dogs he ate.
Are you a cultural imperialist? People eat dog meat in Indonesia because it is part of their culture and it is what they have to eat.
We, here, do not strap our dogs, in crates or not, on the roofs of our cars for 12 hour trips. Psycho!
It would be sociopathic to strap cow to the roof (in a crate) too, I saw the pic, it was open air, dog must of been scared to death.
Exactly, factsrfun!
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yes i do judge other cultures. So according to you, if arab countries treat women like crap that's ok because its their culture? I know your type, excusing other cultures for anything they do (unless they are white and christian of course).
I don't see anything wrong with having the dog on top of the car, people in pickup trucks have their dogs on in truck bed, people in convertibles have their dogs unbuckled in their cars. it's not a good practice but not psycho. Obama is American and ate dog.
You are a cultural imperialist. Thank you for confirming. Many Americans are, that is why we are in decline.
you are an America hater, that's why you are in decline. Plus you didn't address one problem with your belief that other cultures can do what they like and its OK because its their culture. Do you hate Arab women? Why is it OK for them to be treated like crap? Do you hate Indonesian dogs? With people like you, the US would never have defeated the Nazi's nor the imperialist Japanese.
YOU are a human being hater. You hate all people around the world who are not exactly like YOU. Because you're just perfect, right? Your nation is perfect, your society is perfect, your economy is perfect, your political system is perfect. You are just full of hubris so you think it's okay to go around and force people around the world to be just like YOU.
I love America and I love Arab women equally. I also love Indonesian dogs and the chickens and turkeys we eat here in the U.S. Please do tell what is different about that? Do you eat meat? Or do you eat vegetarian chile, Chile?
then solve this puzzle, if a new immigrant comes to America and by his/her culture its OK to disallow women from using contraception should he/she be allow to forbid a women from using contraception?
I never said that i want our American culture to go around the world, i just implied that i think our culture is better than other cultures, something i'm sure that Arabs, Indonesians, would say about their own cultures. Is it wrong for me to think my (American) culture is better, but ok for other countries to think their culture is the best?
Yes! It is wrong! Every culture has good points and bad points. Please, we have the Catholic Church here that doesn't allow women to use contraception. Look, I could go into our societal problems but they are far too big for me to go into here. The point is we are not perfect. We have some huge problems and, in fact, most people around the world are a bit envious of our materialism because we've left them with so little, and our "freedom" which you really could question these days with the way our government is operating, but few are jealous of how we work more hours, have less vacation, no universal healthcare, soaring college costs, a consumerist society vacant of any real deep philosophy to guide it, latch key kids, the highest murder rate in the developed world, etc. etc.
You GO Girl!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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so you don't like American culture, but love other foreign cultures? By the way, the Catholic Church doesn't want to pay for contraception, its never done anything to stop American women from getting contraception, no one has.
Plan Parenthood and other organizations exist and do a good job w/ contraception distribution (not including their abortion racket).
So, you deny that our culture has problems. That's not cool, because when we do that we think we are superior. When we think we are superior, we think it is okay to bomb other countries and bully them into being exactly like us. America has many good points, but it has many areas where it needs to improve.
Have you studied much about other cultures or traveled? Not everyone has the opportunity to do so. Here are a few books I think have very important theses:
The World and a Very Small Place In Africa, by Donald Wright
Imagined Communities, by Benedict Anderson
Orientalism, by Edward Said
Cuture and Imperialism, by Edward Said
In the Wake of the Affluent Society, by Serge LaTouche
The Colonizer and the Colonized, by Albert Memmi
Guns, Germs and Steel, by Jared Diamond
i've traveled probably more than you, and it made me appreciate the U.S. even more. You seem to think other cultures are superior and its ok for people of that culture to be proud of their culture , but Americans can't be proud of the U.S. culture. That's how you come across. And where has America pushed their culture and tried to make them exactly like us? Afganistan asked for it as they attacked us. yes hard for you to believe, but when the Taliban was running Afganistan they allow the dumb ass muslim terrorist in Afganistan to plot to kill Americans .
Tag teaming? chile73 (-73) tupacsugar (4) ?
You have a problem with the fact that America is not perfect?
That we have many social issues as well as business issues to address?
Don't you hate the fact that others country's can point at our failings as a society - then laugh and call us hypocrites?
We have many issues to address here at home and right now when we point our fingers at abuses in other countries - it is almost ( almost ) like saying Do as we "Say" and not as we "Do".
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loser, you say that immigrants come here because they thinking that it's the land of milk and honey not the horrible mess that you believe it is. You know you moron that immigrants have phones and email, if it was so bad as you say, they would tell their buddies 'don't come it sucks here!', but they aren't doing that.
No what I am saying is that America has problems. The immigrant may find a better life here then what they left behind - but it is not all good and that is what I am saying. Corporation profiteers are ruining this country - and there may well come a day when immigrants stop wanting to come here. Hell what are they gonna do when all employment is outsourced to sweat shops on foreign soil?
America has real problems - you can live in denial if you want.
Others are facing the truth and are trying to make things better.
at least i'm don't hate my country like you do. it must be hard to live here but hate it so.
If other countries hate us, you loser, why does everyone want to come and live here?
Does everything have to be to one extreme or the other? Can one not compare the strengths and weaknesses of their own country to another without being painted as a hater? Our education system could be improved. But if I point that out, it means I must hate my country - ridiculous. You need to stop being so extreme and try to be reasonable.
I don't hate my country.
I also am not blind to our country's problems.
Many that come here have no idea what goes on here until after they arrive. They are still hearing stories of the land of milk and honey. The stories of the land of corporate rape have not gotten around as much - yet. But that too is beginning to happen due to open communication on the internet.
No nope - I love my country I hate those who are destroying it.
Whats your problem?
Blind?
Afghanistan did not attack us! WTF? Where on earth do you get that from?
You have a closed mind. It's not going to help us moving forward. You think the U.S. is so great, but it's not. Most of the world hates us for all the wars and bullying, but keep your head in the sand.
then you don't know your history. The taliban (when they controlled Afganistan prior 2002) allowed al Qaeda to plan the attack on America from their soil. they deserved the beating they got from us. If your type had been in control of the U.S. you would have apologized to Al Qaeda for offending their backward muslim ways
Chile--and here's the hypocrisy of Afghanistan: the people are rioting against the US because of some Qurans that were inadvertently burned, a soldier who unfortunately went postal on some families, etc., etc. No excuse--but s**t happens in wars. So they tell us to leave. "Please leave," they say, "but, can you help us fund $4.1B a year so that we can sustain our own peace?" If the US is such the nation of evil, they sure are quick to accept our money. Tired of that crap...just leave them to their own means--they can trash themselves on their biggest export, opium, and before you know it, Russia will make another run at them.
I don't know why chile73 would waste sooooo much time arguing with you. I've read your replies and you are a textbook example of a propagandized,ignorant and bigoted Progressive moron. You must be working from a script cause you have this bullshit down pat.
The real question is why would I waste time arguing with him? I do so because I truly wish to open up the minds of people like you. Your hubris stinks. Your superiority complex is what will bring us down. It is the root of our problems, social, political and economic. When you can't see your own faults you continue on a path of decline without questioning, without improving. You are no better than anyone else just because you are American.
Beautiful: You're all so right. America's culture is so fraught with problems--I don't blame you if you defected to another country that is far more enlightened and progressive. Just leave us neanderthals so that we can rot in our self-engrossing, capitalistic endeavors.
Sure,re-frame the "question" it's a free country (for now) but it doesn't change my statement about you. You may like to flip this to make me look like the one with a "superiority complex" but as is abundantly obvious from all your postings tis be you and all the other progressive's on this forum that possess such a complex in spades. Progressives believe they have all the answers and as such are so much more intelligent and superior in every way to conservatives and,well anybody else on earth. This is a commonly known fact and you trying to disown that.....is disingenuous.
You make me sad. You people with your heads in the sand, your life of fear and hubris. It just makes me sad. I don't care about your ad hominem attacks against me, but people like you are ruining this world by supporting an economic and political system that works only for a very small number of people and that harms the majority of both Americans and people abroad.
Looking at nations and countries through the prism of 'reason' and being able to see both the good and bad in all countries is not an extreme, superior position. It is a position of balance and reason.
We are done with you...
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I never said that was all the food they had to eat.
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You're just a bully. Get off this forum and go bully someone else. It's not working here.
LMAO, this guy put sooo much work into this, what's his point anyway?
I was just saying that to DKA. They have to work so hard. I hope they at least earn a living wage!
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Bully.
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Bully.
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You're confusing us, man. You said, "When I was there years ago. . . ." then you say, "Food grows everywhere here, . . . "
I thought you lived there permanently. Which is it, just out of curiosity?
I'm not sure what the truth is about the bullying, but, unfortunately most kids bully someone to some extent during their childhood. They have even rationalized it, and lied about having done it. Extreme self interest and lack of empathy is something we hope children grow out of, I feel most politicians don't.
That said, even if he is a true sociopath, isn't that what Occupy needs? If you're looking to change the world, there are two ways, through the system or through revolution. Occupy in general seems to eschew the notion of recruiting uncorrupted individuals, candidates new to politics and running them for congress, or actively lobbying congress for change. So it looks like they have placed their hopes on revolution.
Things aren't bad enough for revolution. Too many people are still working, living a comfortable life, haven't been foreclosed on. You need the worst candidates to make a bigger mess of things if you're going to develop the kind of middle class misery you need for revolutionary change.
Actually we don't. Even right-wing websites acknowledge an air of impending disaster; some economists, like Marc Faber and Robert Wiedemer, go so far as to predict a forthcoming collapse, If you spend a little time perusing http://www.newsmax.com/ and http://www.moneynews.com/ , you will discover that I am not exaggerating.
I certainly agree things are going to get worse for the economy before they get better, India and China show signs of a slowdown, but it's still just a prediction. If and when governments or economic systems collapse we'll see what occurs next. All we have now is speculation, hope, and faith.
In spite of all the hopes of one group, there's ample precedent for a right wing, better organized group to step in to fill the power vacuum and even get enough support from a dispirited population that wanted order and security more then freedom.
Yes, plus right-wingers generally will have the armed forces behind them.
So far, all the gloom and doom is little more than predictions and a general malaise. My own opinion is that Europe holds the key. If the euro goes under, so does the dollar.
It's a complex world now, who knows? You may see China prop up some of the European nations in an attempt to keep the first domino from falling. they may try to save whoever they feel is their biggest customer in an attempt to keep their own people working. I suppose it's possible to make up fantasy scenarios all day long.
Did you take a wrong turn and end up in 1950 Cuba? Please tell me more I have a thread for this: (even as a child I remember my fights, it takes a sociopath to forget one, and he was 17 I was in the Navy by that age)
http://occupywallst.org/forum/a-question-for-the-anarchist-on-the-site-are-we-ta/
I doubt he forgot, i would hope that lame coverup is due to embarrassment.
I don't have much to comment on with regard to anarchy. The adherents of most movements in or out of the mainstream seem to have a deep faith and their own view of what facts mean for them and their supporters. There is little point in argument with them.
but he may have, could be what he told his staff, and they were dumb enough to go with it
http://books.google.com/books?id=7aWEZhkBSdwC&printsec=frontcover&dq=sociopath+next+door&hl=en&sa=X&ei=zRbCT92_JoSC2wWG64Vy&ved=0CEQQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=sociopath%20next%20door&f=false
Interesting book, I would have thought the number of sociopaths was greater then 1 in 25. With the possible exception of Carter, I doubt we've had a president with a true conscience in the last 50 years. One of the hallmarks of sociopathic behavior, the ability to compartmentalize, was even given as an great asset for one of them.
There is no major change going to come from a president, it comes from congress. Sometimes a president manages to take the credit, as Clinton did for welfare reform and Obama did with health care, but the real power in in congress.
Voting for Romney helps a republican agenda and means more conservative judges, voting for Obama the reverse. Neither man is without serious personal failings.
I disagree with your accounting of the number of presidents afflicted, however there is some studies that show it does appear more often in the higher management positions and is another good reason to limit the power of those that run our corporations.
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This is troll spam.
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And, you are a corporate plant, trying any way you can to divide and shrink this movement.
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Actually YOU are the corporate plant. Quit trying to convince people who support Obama that they can't be part of OWS. It is divisive and merely an attempt to shrink this movement.
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Find a way to convince me that you are not a dissembling corporate plant. Because, honestly, I don't disagree with what you say, but your lack of cooperation with other people who have good intentions seems to me simply a way to shrink this movement. If we eliminate Obama supporters, where does that leave us? With a pretty small movement. That would seem to me to be the goal of greedy corporations. We shrink, greedy corporations win.
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Consider : "A Large Movement" of True 99% Grass-roots Progressives could readily drag many Democraps towards The Left & possibly split them or force them into much more Pro-99% positions. "Two Party Tyranny" as purveyed by the Corporate MSM is the guaranteed stuatus quo - work to change this and not just spasm 'plastic anarchist' vitriol - which impresses no one !
ad iudicium ...
First of all, I don't see OWS being co-opted into the Democratic Party and Bushbamney election just because a few people here support the Dems. OWS can remain pure while other groups, like moveon.org do that type of work. That's their thing. Where is Occupy actually getting involved in politics?
Secondly, OWS will not be able to effectuate change if it is so small that nobody cares about it. This will have greedy corporations doing the jig.
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The political system is too rotten to work with.. Most of us here know this as many of us have worked on political campaigns, or like me were members of good government groups like Common Cause, or Public Citizen. Things have only gotten worse. Like I have said more than once, OWS has done more in 8 months to raise awarenes of the corrupt status quo than those altruistic groups have done in all their years of existence, and they did it by being outside the putrid political system that the corrupt elite have set us for us to play on.
The middle class decline is in progression still, or better termed in 'degression.' Yes some of the people who are still uneffected will have to look into the crystal ball to see what is in store for them if action isn't taken. It is that screwed-up scenario that we have to make the unconvinced see.
Personally I'm not sure what good it's done. The awareness you speak of is counterbalanced by the bad press Occupy receives and general negative characterization of its members. Love them or hate them, the tea party has had a greater influence on the political scene then Occupy, in spite of a sympathetic media in the early weeks.
I don't believe that Occupy ever had a "sympathetic media." It should not be surprisng that the CORPORATE OWNED media has given a skewed, or nonexistent coverage to the Occupy movement. At best they cover only the most sensational or superficial aspects of the movement which is designed to turn people off, but never will they try to go in depth to report on this world-wide movement to help people to understand this phenomena. Yes we are at a disadvantage there, but we are trying to make up for that with the many affinity groups that are popping up all over the place, as well as social media.
The main reason that the Tea Party succeeded is that they towed the neoliberal line, and hence they got the support and money needed from the corrupt status quo.
True the media is part of the corporate beast, but they make money drawing in an audience. They probably had difficulty with the idea of many messages from Occupy. Inequity and corruption are things that could resonate with people, the early push for loan forgiveness, both for home mortgages and student loans, may have cost some popular support.
The messengers themselves lost favor rather quickly, but that was the case with early anti-war protestors too. Having many messages gives an opportunity to find as much to dislike as to like.
One of the really positive things that is even acclerating now, is people's distrust of the corporate-owned news media. Not so surprisingly this feeling is based more with the younger generation than it is with the older. And that does not bode well for them as people are turning away from CO newspapers, television, and radio news as many people seem to intuitively know that it is a lot of inane bull shit.
Many people here, and out 'there' have been affected negatively by neoliberalism, and the corruption that plagues our political, and economic systems. All of those people have a place here in OWS despite whether people feel that it hurts our movemnet or not. The key is to understand how the corrupt dynamics of the past thirty years have played out negatively for most of us in some way. The trends that are spiraling downward for the common joe, but are shooting up for the wealthy. This is no innocent anomaly, rather it was contrived through a rigged system.
When I first came here, I did not have a lot of empathy for students who could not pay their loans off , or for people who found themselves at the short end of a bad motgage agreement. However, the more I learned, the more sensitivity i had for these people. But yes, nothing is black or white. It is usually a shade of gray.
Many students today end up owing enormous amounts of money upon graduation with no good job prospects. Unlike when my kids went to university, education costs have sky-rocketed, and there is less and less help from government or the institutions themselves. Some of these universities like NYU in NYC even enter into agreements with banks where they get kick-backs for students who are steered to that bank. Google Village Voice - NYU. Anyway these loans follow them for the rest of their life. For every year that they cannot keep up on their payments by working at Wall Mart, more interest accrues, and for every year they cannot find a decent job, they are put further behind the 8 ball by having to compete with the current graduating class. So it is not that these kids don't want to pay these loans off, rather it is because they are unable. And remember all this is occuring compliments of neoliberalism where now even high end jobs are being shipped overseas. So yes, I have a lot of empathy for these kids.
OK, now the home mortgages. I haven't discussed this one in a while. You may already know this too.There are all kinds of scenarios on how people got into loans that they could not pay back under their current terms including many mortgage lenders targeting the least sophisticated buyers with the most sophisticated loans. (Googable) Those lenders did not care if the buyer could not afford to pay those loans back because the lender just sold the loan, and then had no 'skin' in the game. The home loans were eventually packaged up and sold to unwary investors. Amazingly because of the ratings agencies close-knit ties with the banks, and the perverse compensation methods, they got investment grade ratings. This whole irresponsible system was set up by the banks who pushed for deregulation which allowed commercial, investment banks, and insurance agencies to merge in the year 2000. From there, it turned the once stuffy, boring banking world into the Wild West. We can thank our corrupt politicians who took bribes from the bankers for this, and we can also thank them for the subsequent melt-down which we continue to pay for in a plethora of ways.
Yes developing a core message might well be a good idea.
I just watched the Romney news conference about the ambassador's death and again I restate the man is a sociopath.
The problem with this country is the fact that people DO take everything personally and forget that this country was founded on the very principles of 'EVERY (pale skin from European descent) MAN FOR HIMSELF" in other words, survival of the fittest became law here! If one would go back in history and read the writings of Benjamin Franklin one would see that, "This will be the best security for maintaining our liberties. A nation of well-informed men who have been taught to know and prize the rights which God has given them cannot be enslaved. It is in the religion of ignorance that tyranny begins. " So you see, those who let the founding fathers continue to be GOD so as they could do what they wanted in order to create this nation surely walked alongside them in order to reap those same said rewards and are just as guilty and are one in the same. These are those who you should blame because they kept the people ignorant to the founding of this country through murder, slavery, and lies! "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither safety nor liberty." Key word....TEMPORARY!!!! Now you have a man as President, who you all believe should still be a slave (come on now....look within yourselves) and you realize that slavery is in the "eyes of the beholders" all across the globe and here in America it was a method of oppression (only) for those who are greedy and mad with Power!! "When the people find that they can vote themselves money, that will herald the end of the republic." He has just as much a right to represent this said USA Corporate America as any of you......believe it or not!!! So, if he is turning against you and your kind (or so you think) it is only to preserve the Republic, the same as Lincoln's actions (not out of love) for freeing the slaves.....nothing more and nothing less!!!
"There is no kind of dishonesty into which otherwise good people mroe easily and more frequently fall than that of defrauding the government" . So is it Corporate businesses defrauding the government and why are they so entangled within the said government? You can't see the forest for the trees people!!! Remember, Ben warned everyone....."The Constitution only gives people the right to pursue happiness. You have to catch it yourself. "
The revolution was really about taking control of the government, the threat to freedom then and now was/is extreme wealth in private hands, once we take care of that little problem, we will be free again.
And who is we? And who is gonna listen to "we"? And what in the hell makes "we" qualified? Where is "we's" papers and what doctrines is "we" gonna implement and follow? Shouldn't "we" get back to reality....???
Majority, votes have the real power, not money, the few who have the money have the power today but that can change if WE want it to.
Once again, this is ridiculous. You are saying voting power? Yet, I see nothing that indicates this power is being utilized, or that there is a different agenda being put forth to change the positions of the "few who have the money", other than anarchy? Really, this revolution cannot put forth any more than what has gone before. This is the reality of this situation. It is the same rhetoric, with the same ideology, and the same form of oppression, the only differences are the players involved and who should be oppressed, even if they are rich!! So, I have no faith that any one, or any "WE" who allegedly takes over will be any different than what has gone on before us. After all, everyone was educated in the same school system, the same colleges, the same business minds, with the same bull shyt history, and the same capitalistic principles and indoctrination. And all are after the same thing......CASH FLOW!!! Nothing new under the sun my friends!!
And you are an idiot.
if the doctors disagree, what does that make Y O U........
Does anyone even believe that the candidates running are running to serve this nation - I think the general goal here has to be screw the candidates the point is that the candidates belong to corporations (corporations are sociopaths too) we need to attack the problem at it's root and that is to cut the power of corporations - they've gained to much - what good will come when any sociopath is running the show - the only reason they come to power is because sociopathic corporations put them there. Corporations are deemed to represent groups of persons and are therefore considered citizens under the law - the only problem with that is how many of them are actually headquartered here in the US - how many of their leaders actually are even citizens? Looking back in history our forefathers and founders of this country foresaw these entities gaining to much power over the people because of what happened with the East India Trading company. Their combined wealth is overwhelming and subverting the rights of the citizenry who does not have billions of dollars. Monopolies are supposed to be broken down DISBANDED - I don't see that happening - somehow they are allowed to form a thousand subsidiaries and be considered separate but that's not what's happening they have to have different tax id's but that penalty is sort of sidestepped by the fact that they don't pay any (being that they are headed overseas and have a zillion loopholes). Worry about candidates later right now all our votes are being filtered though a voting system that is corrupt and programmable and run by a major corporation whose prime customer base just happens to be banks (running ATM machines). We need to face the real problem first - the real problem is that we have lost our freedom only we're too dumb to see it. What kind of mental illness is that called?
http://www.colbertnation.com/the-colbert-report-videos/405930/january-15-2012/colbert-super-pac-ad---attack-in-b-minor-for-strings
acually I disagree he was just a high school bully. As to the " I forgot about it" he's a lier. which means he's just a politician.
What I will say about him as ma. resident is this he was a 2yr governor serving a 4yr term in which he went and ran for president before. in his 2yr term he sucessful achieved nothing. That is his entire political career.
what about the blind guy he walk into a door, and the dog, and this:
http://www.colbertnation.com/the-colbert-report-videos/405930/january-15-2012/colbert-super-pac-ad---attack-in-b-minor-for-strings
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That would be true if it happened at all....The "victim's" family says the account that was reported was factually inaccurate and one of the "witnesses" said the first he heard of it was when the reporter from the Post asked him about it. It seems to me, the story is not true as reported. That would explain no memory about it. Don't get me wrong. I'm not a Romney supporter but I believe in facts, not made up stories for political agendas. I'm so sick of all the lies on both sides. Aren't we as citizens after the truth?
Even his supporters are sociopaths:
http://chronicle.augusta.com/opinion/letters/2012-05-25/question-presidents-past?v=1337908453
But looks like the details of story are true.
It is well documented you sure got a good spin for a "non-supporter"
http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/mitt-romneys-prep-school-classmates-recall-pranks-but-also-troubling-incidents/2012/05/10/gIQA3WOKFU_print.html
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/05/10/romney-bully-gay-bullying_n_1506382.html
I don't support either candidate. I'm just looking for some truth in all the garbage being tossed around. And I feel I need to expose lies and defend truth no matter who's spreading it and who the target is.
so you thought telling lies was the best way to do that? OK where's your link
There were several eye witness accounts, taken independently, that corroborate the Post story as true. Obviously we aren't going to haul this guy to court in order to prove it beyond a reasonable doubt, but there's enough evidence to say that some version of those events did happen.
There IS no evidence. You are basing your "facts" on heresay coming from Obama contributors. I think the "victim's" family would know the truth and if they say the story is factually inaccurate than I believe them.
The person that posted this comment about sociopaths is making a big jump from a factually inaccurate story to condemning someone to be a sociopath based on untruths. I'm just tired of all the lies and I wish people would make their comments based on facts and not gossip. We can only fix what ails our country if the commentary and the solutions are based on truths and not propaganda and lies.
There is evidence. Several eye-witness accounts. Why are you defending this guy? He's a bully as evidenced through his dealings with Bain Capital, his public statements that brush off anyone that isn't white or part of the 1%, even his dog abuse. He is a stooge for the 1% through-and-through, and it would be against OWS interests to support him in any capacity. Obama has some 1% benefactors as well...
If you agree with Occupy's goal of getting money out of politics, you would look at third party options or anarchy instead of supporting a guy who embodies everything that we are against.
I'm not supporting any individual...I'm supporting truth and I'm sick of lies based on gossip and falsehoods. What I said was that some of these "eye witness" accounts are incorrect.
The Post characterized the five witnesses as politically skewing toward the Democratic Party. One witness volunteered for Barack Obama's 2008 campaign. The victim who could verify the alleged incident, Lauber, died in 2004. Family members do not recall an assault. I choose to believe the family over political hacks.
The other things you bring up are warranted. I was just responding to a post that calls someone a sociopath when the evidence he cites is incorrect. I think it gives more credence to any arguments when they are based on facts.
My point is that you hurt any argument when you use falsehoods or half truths. How can we argue for what we want when a premise we use is incorrect. I'm using this story as an example to apply to the important issues we are facing. To be taken seriously we must be basing our arguments on truth.
How do you 100% know that the family isn't lying? That anyone isn't lying for that matter? We don't. However, if I was running a newspaper that ran this story I would make sure that my data has merit. The Post wouldn't have published this story if there weren't the several independently collaborated witness accounts, otherwise they would be sued for libel. If the allegations are 100% false, why isn't Romney lawyering up and suing the paper for millions?
Does it matter what parties the witnesses come from? It doesn't matter in a court of law.
How do you know for sure that this DIDN'T happen? You don't have 100% of the truth. Neither do I. We will not know for sure because the victim is dead, and even he could lie about what happened. I think there's more evidence showing that something did happen between Romney and the gay kid than there is showing that it didn't, but no one will know for sure how exactly it went down unless you can magically pull some video footage out of thin air.
Look, I don't actually give a shit about Romney being a bully as it relates to OWS. All this does is re-inforce the things that he has been saying all along during his campaign stops. His decree to take away homosexual rights. His derision toward the poorest of the 99%. His fiscal statements that show he will sign bills to give the 1% more tax breaks while cutting services for the least fortunate in this society. The picture that he paints of himself is that he doesn't give a damn about anybody but himself and his corporate interests.
Has Romney shed a single tear of empathy for the people's live that he ravaged when his company, Bain, took their jobs away in the name of profit? I don't care if 80% of the investments were OK. 20% of those investments took a real toll on hard working Americans, and the fact that he doesn't seem to care about that disturbs me. That's not the kind of person that will represent the 99%.
Your statement seems to imply that you believe that anything the media says is true and accurate. That may have been true many, many years ago when journalism was a career of integrity. Not much of what the media says anymore can be trusted to be true. They decide on what they want to say, how they want to sway the public and then invent ways to make it so.
For example, NBC totally edited the 911 tape of Zimmerman (Trayvon Martin case) to make the public see him as a racist when in fact when the entire tape was played that was far from the truth. It was purposely done to start a racial controversy where one didn't exist. We'll eventually find out that truth about that tragedy hopefully but as usual, the media swayed public opinion by editing out part of a tape to make what they wanted us to believe appear to be fact.
Just as you said that we don't know who's lying, I would take the word of the victim's family because they are the closest to the truth, what ever that is. And if you don't know who's lying how can you make a judgement on character because if it's not true, then who's the bully, the Washington Post?
This story may not matter in many ways but it points out one of the biggest problems we face in trying to get any message out and that is that the media is the biggest contributor of false and misleading propaganda and those of us who don't take the time to find out the real truth will never be successful in our quest to change things.
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"Your statement seems to imply that you believe that anything the media says is true and accurate. That may have been true many, many years ago when journalism was a career of integrity. Not much of what the media says anymore can be trusted to be true. They decide on what they want to say, how they want to sway the public and then invent ways to make it so. "
No, the media certainly gets things wrong. In the NBC case the people who did the editing were fired after an internal investigation. In this case, IF the Post made up these stories then Romney should sue them for libel. The fact that Romney isn't suing is telling.
"I would take the word of the victim's family because they are the closest to the truth, what ever that is. And if you don't know who's lying how can you make a judgement on character because if it's not true, then who's the bully, the Washington Post?"
The family was not the closest. Romney, the victim, and the people who assisted Romney are the only people who really knows what happened. All the family can do is guess based on what the victim may or may not have said to them. The victim could have been lying either way. That is a common trait among bullying victims to lie about their attackers in order to prevent further pain by having to re-live the experience multiple times over. There's also a school-based social stigma for "tattle tales" or "whiners" who tell whenever someone is mean to them.
I take it you were never bullied while you were in school? Its constant fear, anxiety, and additional stress. It makes you feel like your life is worthless, and I completely understand the emotions that some of these kids are going through when they decide to kill themselves instead of continuing to exist in what they consider to be living hell. Kids are mean, period. If I, as an adult, can do something to punish kids for perpetuating these actions, then I will do it.
Romney's a bully based on his history and everything he has said on the campaign trail. This incident, if true, would only bolster that opinion even more.
Everybody gets bullied. It's how you're taught to handle it or taught who to trust to tell that gets you through it and makes you the individual you become. I found that humor worked well for deflecting bullies especially in front of a group and when that didn't work, running did. Sometimes vocally putting them on defense helped for a moment. It always depended on the situation, how best to handle. Once in a while, it required actual physical defensive moves. I survived stronger. These are the lessons I learned so that when I got older I could deal with the same type of intimidators we all still encounter today. The difference is I'm mentally much stronger now.
I don't think this story is worth so much time. The only point I was trying to make from the start of this was to say that so many are willing to jump to conclusions without evidence and when I see something stated that is not based on facts, I will always speak up. And if the victim in this story were still alive and saying it was true, I would be just as vocal on his behalf. I think his sister knew the truth and she is the one denying the story so I am speaking on her behalf.
who said anything about supporting him????
How dares you call Obama a phyco he be the bes potus we done ever hads, you be a racist.
military raining camps shout "kill the towel head"
not when I was in training, when were you there?
http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread873982/pg4
I certainly have never made such a claim...
my feeling are that reason and discussion should be used to resolve disputes
They were 17 year old BOYS, not men.
Nowhere does the story say that Romney "shaved" his head. It says he cut his hair with scissors. The WaPo article even states "[Lauber] returned days later with his shortened hair back to its natural brown."
Unless you are a qualified medical professional and Mr. Romney has undergone a series of detailed psychological evaluations, your opinion regarding him is only that...opinion.
Facts are fun. Sadly all the WaPo had to offer was hearsay.
I was in the Navy at that age.
I am, classic pattern.
You are what? A qualified medical professional?
If you are, you should have your license revoked. No credible, ethical medical professional would ever, EVER attempt to diagnose someone they've never met nor personally evaluated. And one hair cutting instance and one dog-on-the-car event do NOT meet the diagnostic criteria listed in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders DSM-IV.
What about all the corporate "people" he murdered, are you forgetting about those?
http://www.colbertnation.com/the-colbert-report-videos/405930/january-15-2012/colbert-super-pac-ad---attack-in-b-minor-for-strings
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Just more evidence that you're not even logical, much less a medical professional.
I didn't call them people he did,
Hey speaking of unqualified judgments “you should have your license revoked” what medical review boards do you sit on?
How many medical review boards can you show me that would support or approve of the licensing of a professional who diagnoses someone they've never met or personally evaluated (and for whom no other known professional diagnosis/evaluation exists). I'll wait.
http://books.google.com/books?id=mU05YWM2aUUC&num=16
That's not a medical review board.
Now how would you know?
Education.
and they didn't teach you not to judge before you've heard the case?
what kind of school was that?
It was a school that taught me how to determine whether or not someone actually has "a case" or just wants everyone to think that they do.
And they revoke licensees based on that? Well do tell.
No. They revoke "licensees" for diagnosing people without ever meeting or personally evaluating them and for whom no other known professional diagnosis/evaluation exists.
Read up on due diligence, dereliction of duty and malpractice.
so you wouldn't be doing what you accuse me of? it seems you are
with no hearing, really? how odd.
What is it about the term "medical review board" that you don't understand?
What in the hell is "NADD"? Did yoy mean "NDAA"? And if so, which bill for which year? "NDAA 2013" is a totally different bill from "NDAA 2012" which is a totally different bill from "NDAA 2011" etc etc etc.
Look at Romney's freak eyes. His clumsy behavior. His fake laugh. It goes on and on.
None of those things are on the diagnostic list either.
how about walking the blind guy into a door? he shows a number of signs
Anyone that supports wars of aggression are sociopaths.
I agree. For far too long Americans have been able to overlook the pain, and suffering that we have brought to so many people in the world. I am just sick, and tired of it. I admire those veterans so much who threw their medals back at NATO with sincere apologies to the Iraqi, and Afghanastani people.
we cause the pain to protect the wealth, cure the wealth problem, solve the war problem
(maybe someone should set up an anti-war site, and if it had a forum....)
Not everything centers around the wealth problem that you keep hammering away at. Once again, the wealth problem is a symptom of our corrupt system. Your near constant referral to that as our main problem is tiring. Yes, these problems are inter-related as we all know.
There is a new poster on here, Trevor... who speaks a lot ot he wars, and the human misery that they cause. I have gained a lot of respect for him because to me that shows his humanity which is far more moving. When Lincoln made the Civil War a war against slavery, he not only made it difficult for the British (who had already out-lawed slavery) to assist the South, but he made the war a noble war. Our cause to is a 'noble' one too.
Trevor's not new, just an Obama hater
Like me, he does not seem to be fond of anyone who wants to engage us in constant war. That resonates with me, big time. For many of us here though, if it is not American life lost, it doesn't count as being immoral.
I hope you will consider what I say about how you and me, we ain't got enough to go to war over, but some do. Sure they say all kinds of things to make people want to, (imagine that wasn't so) religion too and the wars it causes has more to do with protecting privilege, if saying "wealth" seems too "jealous" then think of it as access or privilege, they are all the same.
Our wars have less to do with religion, and more to do with holding on to , and expanding Empire. We have all been the beneficiaries of Empire, but now many people like me who are a part of that oppression do not want to be a part of it anymore. Those people who have been oppressed simply want the same thing that all of us want, a chance for a better furure for themselves, and their families. That's all.
I certainly didn't say it was just religion the opposite really, I am saying we go to war to protect the interest of the wealthy deal with the wealth and you deal with the problem, if we stop this war that's all we've done, stop this war not the next one, we've done that before. The empire you speak of is an empire of money and if we do not address that we will have failed, again.
No it does not only benefit the rich, we (in this country) are all beneficiaries of war, and Empire, whether we want to admit it or not.
as many have pointed out we are a rich nation, however I see people every time I drive anywhere that I think you would have a tough time making the case that they are benefitting from these or any wars
surely you're not suggesting that the oil CEOs have no infulence on our war selection
Still at near $4.00 a gallon, our fuel prices are quite a bit less than most countries in the world. Aren't they? And no I am not suggesting that it is not a collaborative effort on the part of oil companies, other corps., and government to wage these wars. How do you think Great Britain became great? It was through the oppressession, and subjugation of people in far-off lands where they obtained their resources at little cost. As those people fought, and won their freedoms, and the British lost most of their Empire, GB does not seem so great anymore. Does it? Even so though Western nations on the whole promote a sort of economic contol, a neocolonialism over these developing countries through international financial institutions, and by supporitng corrupt, despotic leaders. Some countries...mostly the countries who posess nuclear capabilities...or ones who have strong economic ties to them through trade, ie, some South American countries have been able to break free from this yoke though, much to our consternation, and this adds greatly to the strife in the world. It is this paradigm that the people of the world want to see an end to, hence this is a global revolution.
It is kind of great that sick people in England can see a doctor though.
There was a piece on the radio yesterday and an ed. piece about war, if no one’s put them up I will, we should all read/hear them also Ted Tuner was on CNN really good interview with Pierce Morgan.
Yes, and it's kind of neat that in most European countries higher education is free. I'll look for the the interview. Thanks
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Fuck You.
http://occupywallst.org/forum/search/?q=user%3Afactsrfun
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hi trevor
The dog was in a dog carrier
What dog? are you calling his classmate a dog?
Take off your pansy mask and show your faces occupiers real people stand up for what they beleave, not hide behind a mask Richard Louis Trumka is stealing from American workers union dues are for the workers not the Dem. party Obama is just a puppet for the Liberals Obama is half black and white so why do whe call him the first black pres. America was played for fools cut a dodge in half and a chevy in half and put them togather what do you get ? dodevy lets call it what it is!!!!!!!!!!!!!! all people are the same white, black and mixed where all human lets call it what it is !!!!!!!!!!!!!
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I read your posts. You need to step away from the keyboard and get some time away from this board. You arent a psychiatrist and you have no credentials for diagnosing mental illness, no matter what you say.
People can do stupid things one time, especially in youth, and then profess heartfelt regret. I am no big fan of Romney, I dont think he is a leader, but if he were a sociopath as an adult, we would know it.We would have other examples of sociopathic behavior.
People can change their behavior. Obama was anti gay marriage for his entire life until 3 weeks ago and now supports it. He isnt allowed an epiphany? You never did anything in high school you regret now?
You're crippled inside. Get away for awhile, get some fresh air, go ride a bike and get the hell away from this site, its warping your mind.
they can and he didn't do that, he forgot he had done it that's a classic symptom (you're completely wrong BTW, the best evidence shows about 4% are and only a small percentage are ever identified)
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Let me give you examples of sociopaths:
Adolf Hitler, Charles Manson, Idi Amin, Josef Mengele, Jeffrey Dahmer, Josef Stalin, Marquis de Sade.
Either you are really really weird, creepy weird, Norman Bates weird, or this is your job and you are pretending to be a "poster" but getting paid by the Obama machine.
let me help you come up to speed
http://books.google.com/books?id=7aWEZhkBSdwC&printsec=frontcover&dq=sociopath+next+door&hl=en&sa=X&ei=FQXCT_6gG4qO2wW1u-xr&ved=0CEQQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=sociopath%20next%20door&f=false
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It doesn't take a professional to recognize Romney as a sociopath -- his clumsiness at normal human responses (he has to figure them out first), his sociopathic eyes, etc.f It's totally obvious.
It's funny to watch him tell a joke - forget to smile and laugh - realize the fact with a flash of wide eyed startle-ment - and follow up with a sheepish smile and a lame chuckle as the audience is already past the moment.
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Poser - you could care less.
You are a supporter of the greedy corrupt status-quo.
Just look at you leaping to the defense of Mr. Mittens.
[-] 0 points by llllllllllllIllllllllllllllll (35) 4 minutes ago
You sir, are here to co-opt the movement and water it down into yet another one of thousands of pro-Obama support groups. Down with republicans, down with democrats, down with the government. Go anarchy!
Shame on you for being an OWS traitor. ↥twinkle ↧stinkle reply permalink
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Obama always supported gay marriage that's why no one was really surprised when he came out with his statement.
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No he hasnt. Or you would have seen him putting forth legislation for debate.
He's a puppet of the 1%, who are also homophobes.
i'd say that the elite 1% are the gay lovers and are not homophobes. open Gayness exist mostly in wealthy countries and societies.
Then why is there no federal mandate to allow gay marriage?
because the majority of the population don't want it. Look at California, a liberal state, but the latinos , blacks and others in Cal are conservative in this area and voted against gay marriage. . The courts and reps , the elites, are pushing for gay marriage
If they wanted it, then it would be law. The amount of legislation they pass that we dont like is astronomical.
If it is a certain way, its because thats how they want it.
and communication wasn't always so easy
the mandate must be against marriage discrimination
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Then he is a coward, and not someone who should lead America. Leadership is doing what you think is right, even when opinion is against you.
There is a pretty good saying that holds true for things:
"Leadership is doing the right thing when people are watching"
"Character is doing the right thing when no one is watching"
Neither man can claim those attributes.
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shut me down that would show that there not tolerent of anybodys opinon and proves my point ps my dog love the wind in its face so go bitch about 3rd world countries and there treatment of dogs like 9 dogs in a 3x3 cage! thats 3ft. x 3ft.
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hey waz up? they r going to shut u down for expressing opposition. have a good day. Go Conservatives!
thanks for being brave enough to stop by