Forum Post: Some smart guys talking about the Republican Party.
Posted 12 years ago on May 8, 2012, 12:50 p.m. EST by factsrfun
(8342)
from Phoenix, AZ
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Is Washington's Partisanship 'Even Worse Than it Looks?'
Judy Woodruff discusses the dysfunctional behavior in the nation's capital and what can be done to fix the polarization problems with Thomas Mann and Norman Ornstein, authors of the new book "It's Even Worse Than It Looks: How the American Constitutional System Collided With the New Politics of Extremism."
I saw that PBS news hour segment.
Thanks, it's not just me, this is getting really bad.
Hence the people in the streets all around the world. We live in very troubled times. And the general public is starting to take notice.
People who would normally stay silent and try to ride out the storm do not feel that they can do that this time.
If you really meant that, Factsrfun, you wouldn't be working here full-time trying to perpetuate our broken and corrupt two-party system.
I'm taking about bringing it down, that's why you keep trying to shut me down, but you know that, go ahead tell me what's your plan to bring down the "system".
You cannot "take down" the Democratic/Republican system by using one side to go after the other, you moron. That is exactly how the system works!
that's like saying you can't use a hammer to crack a nut
(BTW you put quotes around words I didn’t use, what is that you must slip in one lie at least, is that like a quota or something?)
No, Bozo. I'm saying you can't use a nut to crack the same nut. I'm saying you can't BE the problem and SOLVE the problem at the same time. I'm saying you are a pro-regime plant, and that no matter what anyone says your gonna keep pumping this forum full of pro-regime propaganda for as long as you're paid to do so...
"Bozo"? "moron"? Name calling betrays the weakness of your argument. can't you be civil?
I saw the link where you were outed as a pro-regime plant and read the posts that suggested you are mentally unstable, VQkag. One or both are clearly true.
I am an independent who believes one parties agenda is closer to the needs of the 99%. This makes it more likely we may co opt them and have them serve us. The other party is too far gone. I'm allowed to have beliefs. What is clearly wrong is to try and silence political discussion. which is all you have ever been about. You claim to have "found" links that YOU posted. Your not foolin anyone but yourself. You are anti Democratic, and seek to shut down any opinions yo disagree with. Don't. A fair discussion is what we need.
You never answered this question:
Are you willing to work on getting Democratic party members to vote 3rd party or not?
No!. stated 3 times in this thread, and repeatedly in my time on the site. That would give more control to the right wing that is at the root of our problems. But you haven't if you would work to get conservatives to vote 3rd party.?
Again, my misguided friend (rhetorically speaking)...
The "right wing wackos" have no more power than the "left wing wackos" do. Both the Democratic and Republican Parties answer to the same corporate masters and global fascist elite. All appearances otherwise are smoke and mirrors. And like most Sheeple, you've fallen for it.
You are gravely mistaken. The parties are vastly different. The Democrats biggest problem is that they have moved closer to the right wing wackos who created our problems. We can give them the backbone they need to come back to the left wing. Support OWS. Vote out anti EPA politicians
In reply to VQkag:
http://occupywallst.org/forum/some-smart-guys-talking-about-the-republican-party/#comment-748347
Wedge issue redirection and nothing more: You focus on what divides and not what unites us, VQkag, and that plays straight into the 1%ers hands. What the Democrats and Republicans agree on is far more damaging and dangerous than what they don't. Again, take Chris Hedges' advice:
"Don't waste any more time or energy on the presidential election than it takes to get to your polling station and pull a lever for a third-party candidate - just enough to register your obstruction and defiance - and then get back out onto the street. That is where the question of real power is being decided."
I crack walnuts together all the time....
You can't crack a walnut by hitting it with the same walnut, scumbag. You can't BE the problem and SOLVE the problem at the same time. You are a pro-regime plant, and no matter what anyone says your gonna keep pumping this forum full of pro-regime propaganda for as long as you're paid to do so...
extreme is new?
cause I thought it met at the far end
these guys have been watching it a bit, this is a longer piece:
http://thedianerehmshow.org/shows/2012-05-07/thomas-mann-and-norman-ornstein-its-even-worse-it-looks
Have you seen George Will talk about Romney and Trump yet?
If you haven't I know you'll love it.
http://occupywallst.org/forum/monsanto-corn-the-fda-and-corporatism/
Yes, replied there thanks.
i thought you'd like that one. That guy's comments made my day.
Lemme tell ya a little something about Democrats "negotiation"...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=imUyBlc7NHQ
You wanna bytch about Republicans, I see the same in Democrats.
only problem is she didn't promise to suck the devil's own d**k to get the job done....
Yes, she did as she always does. Stop complaining about Republicans obstructing.
You have NO standing.
sorry didn't realize you were head of the admission board Sir....
Vote Democratic, and our problems will magically go away.
yes if you look at reality, NDAA, Iraq War and a lot of other things would not have happened if only Democrates were there to vote, they for the most part voted against these things, I don't know if that's all your problems, but all the ones you speak of here would have been stopped by the Ds, if the Rs had not been there
The way we do things, and our ethos will have to be changed on a global scale. We should start here. When you look to one of the parties that helped cause our crappy situation for a solution while simultaneously castigating the other party, that does not help. It just breeds more of the same hatred, and divisions. And it takes away from our energies here in OWS making us less potent. He need healing, and common cause which transcends party affiliation. If we are truly angry, and we should be, we should take it out on the whole politiclal system, which is a sewer.
From my point of view which is based in being here, and on the front lines.....We would be much better off here being more collaborative in reaching out and educating people, and getting them out in the streets, and/or any other type of defiant resistance, not by promoting partisan politics. These people need to be woken up, and radicalized. Like I said, there is a reason why OWS does not promote the politics you endorse, and i cannot remember the last time i ever heard anyone promote them in NYC. It is two totally different worlds between here, and there.
We may have the mistaken belief that we are an integral part of this movement, but we are not. This struggle is being driven by the young people who have far more to lose than we do if things don't change for the better. For all the good we may think we are doing here, I assure you that we are not the real heroes of this revolution. Rather it is the young people out there who are risking arrest, sleeping in churches etc, and eating pizza five times a week for dinner, and meeting in parks after having worked, or gone to school all day all. For all the effort that you, me, and people like DK, shooz, shadz, and BW put forth here, it is miniscule compared to so many of the young people in this movement. My participation here is to compliment what is being done out there, not to try, and steer this revolution to something that it is not, or should not be.
I can only talk about what I know and what I see, if people develop thoughts based on that fine if not, oh well,. you often speak of reaching out, I do as well I reach out to all willing to raise taxes on the wealthy, I just don't find many/any in the Republican Party, everything I do see and read tells me that removing Republicans from office is a requirement for OWS to get money out of politics or address the wealth issue in general.
If those in the streets wish to allow the movement to become one of non-action that fades away, there is little I can do about that, but that is no reason not to speak truth as long as the site allows me to. And the truth is we need to get rid of these republicans, and I am sorry you don’t feel that way.
I am in no way endorsing the repub party by trying to make you understand that partisan politics has no part to play on this OCCUPY WALL STREET forum. I personally think that anyone here who chose to vote, and voted repub should have his head examined. Rather I am trying to save this movement from becoming impotent which i believe it will when people start using this as one poster/troll put it, 'election central.'
We have had a cyber friendship which i have enjoyed over the last few months, but i am willing to risk that for this movement which i care deeply about. So the more you push partisan politics on here, the more i will push back.. Nothing personal, i hope, just fact.
We are in a titanic struggle which may take years to be victorious in. There is no doubt that along the way, we will make mistakes. there will be lots of ups, and downs....victories, and defeats. Some will be in the political arena, and some not, but the main thrust of this movement has got to be DEFIANT.
And if God-forbid this movement as you suggest, "fades away," it will not be because people relied on defiance over voting for Democrats, it will be because not enough people joined us in the streets, ie Montreal, Quebec City, and NOW towns and cities north and south of both of them! There is our blue-print FRF.
An interesting of couple comments first you say that those of us that post on the forum are not really a part of OWS, Occupy Wall Street, ( because it’s MONEY is a problem), you say that we have no influence, then you speak of the affect of our writing, what it is you fear I’m not sure at this point, feel free to post away, tell us why you think either that we should not vote, or how we vote doesn’t matter, or even why we should not share why we are voting the way we are with others who feel that money has too much power in our lives.
Also please don't twist my words, or put words in my mouth.
"We may have the mistaken belief that we are an integral part of this movement, but we are not......
For all the effort that you, me, and people like DK, shooz, shadz, and BW put forth here, it is miniscule ....
So the more you push partisan politics on here, the more i will push back.."
What did I twist?
if the troll is given attention, that would focus on he/her points
Let's see, not being an 'integral part' does not mean the same a 'not being a part of.' The point being that there are many more people in this movement that are doing the real heavy lifting, and making the real sacrifices compared to 'us,' and none of th ones I know are talking partisan politics. Certainly, you wouldn't argue with that, would you?
I never said you have no influence
Great choice to leave off with 'miniscule.' as it puts my comment completely out of context. Congratulations!
For the rest of it, just reread my comments as your interpertation of it in the previous post is off, way off, and that is purposeful on your part to try and make my argument on the IMPORTANT stuff seem stupid
Yes, feel free to post away. Of course, you don't need my approval, and it was not meant to be that. It was just my realization that you like me will not change our mind on this issue. So go for it FRF. Do what you must do, and so will I.
In AZ about half the actions are political in nature, people here are very anti-GOP, but we live under Republican rule, we know what it's like. I'm sure you don't doubt that do you?
I replied to the only case you presented, if you present another I will address that, and thank you for the apology accusing me of "putting words in your mouth" when clearly I did not.
"integral part" "really part" you use your fancy words, I just use plain english, you left out a word to make your poinrt, who's twisting now? and put quotes aroud it, that makes you a lair,
"Integral," as in 'important or necessary.' I do admire people that can apologize when they are wrong, but I did not realize that I apologized for anything this time, but if that is how you took it, well...you're welcome.
Look i don't want to get into a discussion of semantecs with you on top of the more important one of where this movement should be going. I have clearly outlined my case in my previous posts that, I believe the partisan politics that you endorse near constantly is only hurting this movement.
I'll look for that outline.
There is nothing contradictory about my postings. It is YOU.... trying to obfuscate the differences between us, and your inability to back up your choice of believing that partisan politics is the panacea that you claim it to be.
"inability to back up"? you have made NO case whatsoever to describe how you feel ANY change can be accomplished by embracing those who wish to keep taxes low on the wealthy and our government in control of money, support electing to public office those who support public funding and defeating those who oppose it, the Ds support it and the Rs oppose it, you are the one who has presented NO case at all.
FRF try concentrating on the big ugly picture. We are in a monumental struggle here. We have had many exchanges here over the last few days. I have backed up my beliefs very well. Do what you have to in promoting partisan politics. I will do what i have to in opposing your point of view.
By the way, I have not stinkled any of your comments here, but feel free to vote my down, as I do not care about that crap.
So refresh me, how do we accomplish something without being political? I know you don’t want us to be, but how does that get anything done? I didn’t see your case, must have been in another thread.
Look at Montreal, Quebec City, and now all the other cities where people are out in the streets. Do you believe that you are too important here on this forum than to be out in the streets, or at least be directly supporting those that are? lol Do you not want to leave the comforts of your home to stick your neck out for fear? Are Democrats winning more important to you than losing the fire of this revolution? I think we both know the answers, don't we?
if the Republicans are not defeated, nothing will change, you also seem to have a fair amount of time for the forum
Montreal is a beautiful city especially this time of year FRF. You should think about taking a trip there. May I suggest going to the beautiful Notre Dame Cathedral, and having lunch in one of those cute little out-door cafes. Somewhere before 8 pm though, you may want to return to your hotel, so that you can SAFELY look out the window, and see how a real revolution is going to be won.
It’s almost like you can see Quebec from Jersey…..
but for a good time, DC strip club 3 am...
My long range sight is good both figuratively, and literally. St. Catherine's St. in Montreal if you are into that kind of thing.
What in the hell is "NADD"? Did yoy mean "NDAA"? And if so, which bill for which year? "NDAA 2013" is a totally different bill from "NDAA 2012" which is a totally different bill from "NDAA 2011" etc etc etc.
thanks
since you all care soooo much