Forum Post: Should physically demanding jobs be given early retirement ?
Posted 12 years ago on Jan. 27, 2012, 7:14 p.m. EST by BackRider
(83)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement
Sure it's easy for a desk jockey to work til they are 65 , but if you are out in the cold working physically arduous laboring jobs .. 65 can be a long way off, and for most impossible. So is it fair to have everyone retire at the same age when we all have different professions ?
Yes!
With full benefits, including medical.
Ultimately, a remote controlled machine, operated by the same person could prevent the physical damage. Until then, what you say, YES.
Even then, somebody has to work the machinery.
In robotics maintenance, the slightest of errors can be threatening to life and limb.
Remote, not robot. I'm talking about human operated machinery.
Proper service and contingent shutdown methods make remotes safer than people because the operator is not physically fatigued. Every 24 hours of operation a technician takes a 2-3 hour shift with the machine and operates to check safety and performance while working.
Yes (at least while these functions remain necessary e.g. until robotics technology becomes much more advanced, or biological science is able to keep our bodies in a youthful condition ... both of which is on the horizon, albeit it's hard to predict how far in the future these advances will materialize).
By that logic...school teachers...who work 9 months a year, 6 hours per day, have two weeks off at Christmas and Easter,, along with 20 sick days per year, and never lift anything heavier than a dictionary,...should be required to work until they are 80.
I would hope that they are compensated for the back-breaking work at a rate that makes up for the fact that it is physically demanding. This would allow for more money to be put into a retirement plan along the way to secure an early retirement.
yes, good point! we should award the working class citizens an early retirement, while making the college graduate desk sitters work their full term!
not many hold a job for 10 years these days
I still know a few . But honestly should we stay in the same job our entire lives ? Would it not be nicer to make a fresh start with change from time to time .. as we grow we develop new interests new passions. And would it not be more productive to have fresh employees with fresh ideas .. rather than the same old faces .. as we see in congress with the same grumpy old men , bitter and uncooperative .. with nothing fresh to contribute .. there should be term limits on all public office. but I am just saying
If you like your job though why change?
I was commenting on why some people do not hold there job for more than ten years .. but some do .. and some enjoy this .. I believe we should follow our passions ..
term limits are often included on a petition to sell another reform on the same petition
but would that help ?
yes
people vote for term limits
I don't
I don't see the results ? We have the same faces ..arguing the same squabble over and over.. without any fresh/new thought.
why are you against term limits ?
True, each case must and should be handled differently. Just because the Supreme Court Justices must die to vacate a position, doesn't mean that goes for everyone else.
That is why no one in their right mind should try to topple Social Security or Disability, since many cannot physically go forward, but have paid into these programs all their lives.
Now, take those programs away and who is gonna take care of them?
Perhaps Corporate America can organize a funding program...ya think?
interesting example with the justices .. are they not allowed to retire ?
I know, I exaggerated, just a teeny bit, but here goes; "Supreme Court justices serve "during good behavior," which means "for life" or until they choose to resign or retire, as long as they don't commit an impeachable offense (bad behavior)."
So, unless it is grave circumstances, for instance, the last one who was ill and passed away. Whereas, .jobs are not that stable for the majority of workers.
thanks for the clarification. we agree , each case should be handled differently .. not a one size fits all .
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no.. we don't need to complicate the matters.
Spoken like a person that sits on his Ass all day long
I think it should be on a case by case basis. Truckers get worn out lower backs, kidney disease/deterioration and bowel disorders at greater frequencies than the ordinary driver and hard labor involves other types of wear and tear not to mentionother hazards that can be debilitating and effectively age someone by an extra several years vs. office workers with little daily physicality to their jobs.
well thanks , it's nice to see we have mutual respect for this thought/idea. for so long we have always used the one" size fits all " rule .. like what are we in the dark ages ?
You're welcome. One day while visiting someone in the John Muir Hospital in Walnut Creek I wandered into their medical library, one section was for ' industrial.' I spent the better part of an hour going through various graphic medical materials covering 'wear and tear' treatment to horrific industrial accidents(Walnut Creek, CA is not even 15 minutes away from Shell Refinery and others such as Valero) and Truth be Told: Any job requiring moderate to strenuous along with 4 hours or more daily activity takes its toll on joint/cartilage,bone not to mention internal organs. I learned too from discussions shared with me that cardiologists know that jobs requiring standing in place with minimal walking for more than 4 hours per day is harmful to veins and capillaries in the legs(ever hear of varicose veins? Basically it's collapse of the valve like structures in the veins which leads to the bulging in them and of course some people are actually genetically predisposed). Anyway, if possible anyone stuck in more physically demanding jobs would be best to try to get out of them as soon as is practical to do so. PS:in high school I remember working retail jobs after school until closing time and think it's sadistic that workers for the most part do not have a stool they can sit on as needed by the cash register because the foot and leg pain is more than enough to bring tears to the eyes.
..and yet none of this is ever considered by retirment age . we all have to cross the same line .. with the exception of the wealthy .. thye don't need the funds .. but correct me if I am wrong, the wealthy may still collect .. correct? there should be a rule about that.
I have always thought / felt it was unfair for physical work to recieve on average less pay than office manager work. even at equal pay it would be unfair in some cases , but I would accept equal pay .. how will we ever change any of this , and why do so many not want to change at all ? we are far from reaching a fair and just society/ civilization .. we have so far to go ..
It's nice of OWS to provide this platform and open up this debate .. maybe now this will speed evolution along.. help is on the way ..
I agree. What really magnifies the issues is the fact that as a function of various factors especially ignorance of important matters such as profit margins physical laborers do not as a rule examine (profit margins) and demand a higher percentage in the form of greater compensation. The most easily demonstrative example is mega retailers like Wal-Mart where hourly sales for each store are in the thousands. If workers demanded even 1% of those hourly sales each employee would be able to earn well above the average income for an American household of 4 and would be able to afford their own choice of moderate to full coverage auto, health, vision and dental insurance or care and there would be no need for dependence on government programs at the expense of the taxpayer or privately subsidized assistance programs.
thats the truth.. walmart is one of the greatest contributors to the welfare state, of recipients, they should be taxed extra for every employee using food stamps and medicaid off the backs of all working americans
Ever hear of the site Wake up Wal-Mart? It and others like it do a great job of exposing the truth on these matters.
ive never heard of that ill check it out
back in 2007 the site actually had a dedicated domain name:wakeupwalmart.com now it's makingchangeatwalmart.org
I am really glad we are having this discussion, with so much truth coming to the forefront..
Here's more from the organizers of the Wake Up Wal-Mart site. I just found this and even the UFCW uses the phrase I thought I coined long ago "Poverty Jobs" and which I define as anything that does not allow for one single individual to be able to shelter (in the form of lowest cost 1 bedroom apartment, modest car payments with basic auto insurance, gas, whole healthy mostly non-processed meals/food you prepare yourself, medical, dental and vision insurance and costs and other basics required to function and at least have a foot in the door to bootstrapping oneself in our technologically functioning society-ie: basic living expenses include at minimum Internet access if one is to cheaply self educate and self improve to advance beyond entry level employment whether or not one is career displaced (as I am following forced closure of a real estate and mortgage brokerage and with economic reserves depleted I am required to start over as a salaried employee in some capacity before engaging in self employment; poverty jobs may be the fastest hiring option for the career displaced but will continue to drain public and private subsidy programs which on a long term basis will hamper a jump start to the economy and prolong the current situation of those in need unable to more quickly get off of such programs needed because the 1% of hourly profits is earmarked for the top tier executives and shareholders of companies like Wal-Mart and this level of greedy economic dysfunction has to stop! http://www.ufcw.org/makingchange/ Home » Making Change at Walmart
At the UFCW, we know what makes our union strong: members standing together for respect and dignity in the workplace. In the grocery industry, union contracts guarantee protections and a voice on the job. But at the company with the most grocery sales in America, Walmart, our fellow workers are not receiving the respect they deserve. In the meatpacking and food processing industries, Walmart's price pressures on suppliers can lead to downward pressure on workers' wages.
Our vision for American workers – in grocery, retail, and in our communities – is respect and dignity at jobs that pay fairly and guarantee workers a voice. This is the American Way, and it’s what made our country great. But Walmart has a different view – one where it, the employer, has all the power. Walmart creates poverty jobs: a worker earning the company-reported average full-time hourly wage working Walmart's definition of full-time would be earning below the federal poverty level for a family of four. These jobs do not strengthen our communities or our nation.
Join us on MakingChangeAtWalmart.org, where we are making change by working directly with Walmart Associates to claim the respect on the job they deserve.
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If you're in the New York area and able to participate in future protests maybe you can make a sign or banner with 5 inch high letters saying something like "1% of hourly profits for entry level employees of the Fortune 500."
My dad was a truck driver for 10 years before he got out of it. You know why he got out? Because the lack of activity was causing him to get fat. He even ate right for 8 of those 10 years and still got fat. He would have had not to eat hardly anything to stay the same weight. You know why they have problems with organs? Because of all the shit that they eat at McDonalds.
it's not an easy job , especially on ones health with all the stress and lack of exercise, those guys drive all day and when they are done they are to beat to even go for a walk.. it's a killer. .. which strengthens the arguement for early retirement
My dad managed to get up and go play tennis when he got home and he was running more hours than everyone back when the industry was doing well. I get that it is a hard job but no one has made them do it and it is quite a bit of work to actually become certified to drive a truck so maybe the could flip burgers and not do such a hard job.
what does your dad think of early retirement for those in hard working professions?
My dad thinks that it should be moved a little back because the average life expectancy has been increased.
ask your father why with all the advances in technology and production we can not retire earlier ?
Because it isn't Star Trek bro. We don't have any matter converters
excuse me ?
You don't know Star Trek? The basically had no economy because they had the ability to transform any material into anything else. Shit into food in big cycle.
If they earn and save for it....sure
At the expense of others....NO
Are you whining again????
Yes indeed, you are.
You said you didn't do that, but yes, you do..
hmmm? so that's whining, huh?
no wonder you misidentified the meaning of freudian slip....you have trouble with word definition, I suggest the library, they have nice big dictionaries there...can you read?
You funny guy.
It's whining to everyone but you.
I guess that's what narcissism will get you.
You get to lie about yourself too.
what about consideration for their physically demanding efforts, as the elite sit in their climate controlled offices while hard working men and women are out there building the world around them .. at usually quite substantially less pay .. how do they save enough to retire .. it's not like they are getting million dollar bonuses for sitting on their ass , they are working .. hard physical work .. with indurance and strength built up over the years in their profession ... I think recognition has been long forgotten ..
hard physical work is the least common denominator of modern society....it is mindless and anyone can do it with little or no training, so replcing laborers is easy.....the overall value they contribute is low, so they are paid low wages......
I have to question whether a surgeon could build his million dollar home ? would he be able to pour the foundation straight .. build a roof that doesn't leak , have the doors and windows swing properly .. with a nice attached garage and automatic overhead door .. and a beautifully landscaped back yard .. ? Every profession has it's skills and talents but some are physically demanding ... but I would be greatly insulting to say they are simpletons.. the surgeon , the carpenter, the mechanic .. all deserve respect. and what about those construction workers out there building those beautiful highways in all types of weather and conditions .. physically demanding .. walking around in mud , climbing ladders .. carrying stuff .. man thats tough and desrves more respect than you give them .. or the auto worker slugging away day in and day out building beautiful cars ... there are so many many examples .. of skilled labor but you think adding a few numbers , or making a few decisions is somehow of more value and worthy of much much more respect .. when most of those laborers could do the managers job.. hundreds are capable of sitting in an office answering phones.. when in fact the manager usualy doesn't have as much skill as the person he hires to do the actual work.. the true professionals. well any way .. I see this will be a waste of my time discussing this with you.. unless you can show me some reason to consider your thoughts further ?
You've never managed people...have you?
respect is one thing, over-valuation is quite another
the question was should those people be able to retire before you.. as you do no physical labor and hence are not as worn down at the same age
don't make personal assumptions which may, or may not be true.....
when a person retires is their concern exclusively...
exactly.. but if you want to retire at 55 you cannot.. even though you may be worn out physically.. but some one at a desk job.. no physical stress , still feeling good can retire at 62 , the question was is that fair?
fair has nothing to do with it.....if you choose to work a hard physical job all your life, be prepared for the consequences of that choice
and equality is yet another..
you are applying equality to a realm were it doesn't exist......you cannot have equality of reward if there isn't equality of result...
effort + result = reward
I disagree . hard work produces result .. it's the reward that is inequal.
equality fits quite well into the realm of this discussion.
hardly....the value of a single man's labor does not carry equivalent value to the man who organizes and directs the labor of many men and by that organization increases the result beyond the sum of each individual effort...
I consider leadership to be quite easy ..simple in fact.. delegating work and organizing is as simple as one two three. but I wasn't looking to undervalue it's importance, nor would I devalue the need for hard labor. whether one chooses such profession or not, it should be rewarded appropriately.