Forum Post: Revolution is...easy?
Posted 13 years ago on Oct. 27, 2011, 11:49 p.m. EST by EnemyOfTheState
(26)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement
I grew up in the 60s, in a time when Americans empowered themselves through processes much like the ones I see used today. These processes gained us strength in our cause, and ultimately affected real change. Narrow scopes were broadened, bias and inequality abated, and the end of a decade filled with conflict and death on foreign soil.
The difference between "the now" and "the then" is not so much the mechanics, but the political atmosphere. In the 60s, our government, and our police force, were afraid of us. I remember sitting around in our local park in an open field, 30 to 50 of us, forming a large circle of love, rolling up doobies, listening to music, and smoking to our hearts content. All by the light of day, and all while the police cruised casually, and silently, by.
What has changed? The list of things that have emboldened our government and their multinational counterparts, from then to now, are too many to list here. I've always thought it started with the JFK fairy-tales that the Warren Commission spun for us to digest. Once we did nothing about that, by small degrees we started to lose our power, and in due course, our country.
A much better question is, "How do we get our power back?" The answer is kind of Gandhi-esque. Gandhi once said, “The weak can never forgive. Forgiveness is the attribute of the strong.” Power and mercy are not given to the poor and the weak, for why would those who have power give up part of their strength when they don't have to? Power must be taken by the strong and the bold. In united numbers, we, the people, are stronger and more powerful than any army, any weapon, any corporation, any "thing" that they can throw at us.
Let's say, for example, we formed a huge cooperative of dedicated and like-minded individuals. This "co-op" could do things like embargo products and businesses, demand higher wages, shorten the work week, and lower food, housing and gas prices. Once these goals were met and were visible to the entire world, the co-op could form committees that never existed before, that would help shape and decide government policy over Corporatism. As Gandhi said, the weak are powerless, and these committees would not be effective now. But after gaining such power as this cooperative could give, we would have to be taken seriously, simply because of the sheer influence we could wield as a vast and united force.
Sounds a bit like fiction, doesn’t it? I was even going to write a book that followed this same premise. But if you think about it, the same sort of thing happened a little over 200 years ago, right here on this very continent. Look how nicely that turned out.
My Homepage: http://enemyofthestate.blog.com
Hey,
Please pass this on if you agree. We are working on setting a date.
Force Change, Boycott Capitalism
We know what the problem is, let us fix it and move forward together.
When you look at a republican or democrat, congress or FDA official, Judges and Justice Department, you see criminals.
Our corruption dates back decades to when those, who in trying to preserve slavery, had to find new ways to preserve it and so created a scientific and advanced form of slavery.
Only two components were required -- the illusion of freedom & choice and the taking away of the freedom to live off the land.
How else would you get a person to submit themselves to mind numbing or degrading work unless you oppress them into it.
Our current system is rooted in corruption and every attempt in preserving it involves manipulating human thought and turning people against one another.
In America the population has been transformed into two major voting groups but they only have one choice.
They had been distracted up until now with television and American culture which prospered through the oppression of other nations.
Americans allowed themselves to be fooled into using their military and economic dominance to seize resources of other nations and create expanding markets for American profiteers.
Now that technology, competition and conscience have evolved Americans are realizing that our current system of government is damaging and unsustainable.
Our government officials have allowed private profits and personal benefits to influence decisions that affect the health and well-being of people all over the planet, not just in America... how much longer will we allow them to rule over us??
Occupy Washington and demand that government officials resign their posts.
We will setup new online elections with a verification system that will allow us to see our votes after we cast them, put our new officials in office and work toward rebuilding our country and our world.
Pass this message along to any and everyone, we already occupy the world, unite.
Occupy Washington, Boycott Capitalism, Force Change
http://wesower.org
Yeah! This isn't just about boycotting some corrupt corporations, it's about an entirely corrupt system and way of doing things. This corruption isn't just at a corporate level, but from the White House on down.
On the other hand, electing new officials to end up doing the same thing as the olds have done, isn't what I call a step forward. As I stated in a Venus Project blog:
"I can't imagine any venture to change the future for the good of mankind and nature still clinging to such outdated ideas of governing. I don't have any problem with majority rules, personally, and in a time where technology can easily provide, why not we govern ourselves. Any and all decisions being made ONLY by everyone. A channel on our televisions that is a direct link dedicated to our "governing body", where we can vote on everything, period, with enough time for these votes to make it possible for an educated and majority casting. No managing class that can intercede when it decides that we are being too infantile in our decision making. This isn't just about the environment or equilibrium between man and nature, this is about advancing forward into a future that works for us all. If it's just going to be another aristocracy, no matter how you rationalize it or dress it up, then why even bother? Advancement means to go forward and this type of governing, as stated on that site, is not a step forward, just a step sideways..."
"The "governing body" can be a building where people work to process all this...
To keep this from being corrupted, every person capable would serve, once every so often, on a rotation, and one of their jobs would be to randomly checking a sample of other citizens to be sure their votes are the ones that they cast. Any discrepancies would be investigated, brought to light and the system fixed."
i hope to meet you in a truly democratic and peaceful world one day.. please pass our message along to any and everyone, we already occupy the earth, it is time to unite
I have been alive for over 50 years. In the 60s it really looked like we were on the road. But, then they killed John, Bobby and Martin, gave us a recession that smelled suspiciously like a depression and was based on the myth that fuel oil was in short supply.
It really feels like business as usual in these parts, and I had really hoped that by the time I retired, we'd have had our heads, as a country, extracted from our asses by then.
Well, corruption begets corruption...I think, like a bad appendage, it's time to cut it off or it will kill us all.
In the US now as never before you have 2 more things. You have increased communications. You have all the place in the world to hide with millions of homes and buildings unoccupied. Create your co-ops. take back the land so swiftly stolen. Use this new space to prove your ideas. With a network it entirely feasible to do. It will take a lot longer to root you all out if you are spread out and blend in rather than pen yourselves willfully in.
You know, you have a point. What with 46 million Americans now on food stamps and 1.6 million of us being homeless altogether, there is probably enough "free" space in America to start a medium sized country.
Thinking about it, isn't what the OWS movement doing, by tenting out in parks, just joining many of the rest of us? Maybe even some of them come from other tent cities to join them there. As Owlet said about a week back, "Occupying parks is a grandstanding move. Nothing happens in a park." I think he's right. This is no great show of our solidarity or our commitment, it is more a sign of the times.
I'd say more, but every time I do, someone comes along and says I have a "violent agenda".
We swim in a sea of trolls.
I have put a great deal of thought in this- long before the economy collapsed. Some places were already there. It is hard to complain about somebodies 'violent agenda' when they are your neighbor and contribute to the welfare of their community. The biggest barrier people face when they want to promote local organic food, sustainable living, sound communities is property. For once 'they' slipped and provided just the moral justification for people to take back the land. What after 'they' grenade'd the housing market and subsequently the already precarious economy. If people really want to be heard it is Main st. they need to occupy- not Wall street.
this is becoming a world movement
I am not sure yet which way I will aim if things got bad, I suppose it has a lot to do with the circumstances. So far all the conspiracies seem unfounded, the government has treated you guys pretty damn well.
Well, I'm not sure Scott Olsen would agree. But what has Occupy Wall Street really done? If the government is treating you well, then you probably aren't doing your job right. I used to use that same line when I was Christian..."If your life is good, then you're probably not doing god's work." Satan, (or the "Government" in this case), has no need to make your life unhappy if you aren't really making his, ("theirs"), unhappy. And isn't the whole point of being an activist being...ACTIVE?
One idiot hurt out of tens of thousands, I think that is a pretty damn good record.
How to remove corporate greed thru social financial shift
Once you have say..50% of the public signed on to the cause you can now organize on a specified date for a execution of the plan. The plan consist of bankrupting a company by pulling stocks,refusal to work,withholding pay from bills and from not buying the chosen companies products. For example let's say a multibillion dollar company all of a sudden looses close to half the workers in it's factory while simultaneously a major sell off of it's stock was occurring at wall street. The stock would plummet and the media would be quick to cover the unfolding developments.then as if the shock of a diminished workforce and a stock freefall wasn't enough the payment of half the goods on the books would remain unpaid along with the half empty stores filled with the talk of a giant who had fallen by the sheer will of the people The doomed company goes bankrupt within a very short amount of time and the workers start up a co-op an Employee owned company under new management with the proceeds and increase profit benefitting those that work there and the distribution of the wealth is filtered thru those of us in the community. We can do this to all the multibillion dollar companies and essentially get the money back. It was our money in the first place and it can be done. The benefits of such a hostile takeover of a major corporation are two fold you redistribute the money to the people and you eliminate a sponsor of political corruption.No corporations translates to no lobbyist and crooked deals behind close doors.Not only do you get the money back but in the end you get a political system that actually works for the people
Nice idea, but not accurate. Nothing really changed until several of your compatriots were shot dead by the National Guard in Ohio, their parents woke up & started to oppose the war in Viet-Nam after that.
The ends that were achieved on this continent a little over 200 years ago, were achieved through open disrespect of "legitimate" authority, and out and out violence. I'm not advocating violence here. But as John Lennon said: "I'm not really sure."
I'd prefer it non-violent. The question is: how tough are they gonna make it for us?
The simple truth for myself is that I am really fuck'in tired of the debate. There is nothing to debate. The US government is owned by the wealthy. What the hell needs to be debated? Either you like the situation or you don't. I've heard this bullshit all my life (I'm 68)...yea lets sit down and talk. This will end in one of two ways...(1) tyranny in full gear (2) total change of the system....I guess I am to the point where I am saying 'shit or get off the pot'.
This forum is filled with those who like the current situation. I can tell them this: "you are not going to like either (1) or (2)".
I agree, there is no room for debate. Our government is, most certainly bought, & paid for. Other than the right-wing trolls, I don't think anyone in here likes the situation. I'm younger than you, but I've heard the BS all my life, too. Myself, I'm for radical change of the system, at the risk that I won't like it. I already dislike the way things are going now, and I think that's headed for "tyranny in full gear" - as you put it. Thing is, we have to stay out there to keep an eye on whatever changes happen, & make sure they are actually for the good of the 99%.
That is the rub, yes? And, if they make it hard, what are we willing to do in return? Kent State was/is an all to realistic example of what our country is prepared to do if we don't shut up and play nice. This was a non-violent protest, and some of those shot were just walking by. Conformity, by any and all means necessary. This is what those who govern and "protect" us want, and almost always get.
"Aye, yes, there's the rub!" Point is, while you & friends did your part, nonviolently - nuthin' really changed until things got ugly.
That being said, I like a lot of your ideas about co-ops, etc. . Now, I don't know how you would get all that going. But, as negative as it sounds, we might need to say "no", before we can say yes. The upcoming "National Bank Transfer Day" on Nov. 5th which encourages everyone to transfer their money from corporate banks to credit unions or locally owned banks might be a very good start. If Bank of America, or Chase, were driven out of business, or even saw a collapse in their stock price as a result of this, people might understand the power they can wield, if they act together.
Not a bad idea. I think we'll have to realize that these multinational corporations are too diverse to kill them that easily. But, cut off a giants little finger, it is going to hurt him. Enough dismemberments and he's on the ground screaming for mommy.
See, this is why I keep saying that there is more then one way to skin a cat. When we start uniting and stop arguing, we can do anything...even affect non-violent blows to corporate America. Do I think non-violence will be enough? No. Power is too greedy to give up without a real, bloody and heart wrenching battle. I think if we actually commit to this thing, we are going to lose more then sleep, money, or time...we'll probably lose a lot of good people too. And honestly, I really don't mind if one of them is me.
Had to think about this for a minute or two - but I think I agree with you, we may lose a lot of good people. I don't know that I'm all that good, but, even though it scares me, I don't think I mind if I'm lost with those people who are better than I am.
I think, if you fight for a good cause, whether you think you are a bad person or not, you are good person now. Aren't we better defined by our actions then our words...or our past?
So far, it's just been words from me. But I'm heading for Liberty Square soon. For only the couple of days I can spare. Not sure if that's sufficient action. But it's what I can do. Can only hope enough of the other "couple of days" types can & will do the same. After all, if we're gonna give our lives to the cause, we have to be there.
PS... how about occupying foreclosed houses. Oh wait, there are no Starbucks nearby. And there are town officials to deal with - and town police forces usually are more competent and less brutal than city police forces. That would ruin the fun of police defiance real quick.
You go, brother! Sing it to us!
So much of these things are done for the sake of show, and, don't get me wrong, show can be a little effective. It gains awareness. But awareness without any REAL, substantial action is hollow at best. It just shows those who are really looking, those who are really oppressing us, that we are either fooled into believing that our ineffectual demonstrations are worthy or that we are inept and without the balls to do what needs doing.
We need to get our heads out of our asses, before it is too late, and start doing the things that will effect real change.
Please. If you were really starving and homeless and threatened with real torture, you can and would throw your "nonviolence" talk away. However, people in America do not face these threats. Including the vast majority of the "99%"
You can have a nonviolent movement, but for that you require organization and leadership. OWS has abjured those, so all that remains is mob violence.
Right now you have the mob, but are reluctant to do the violence part. I hate violence, so that's good; now just waiting for you to drop all this "open assembly" bullshit and get some organization and leadership.
First hint: Occupying parks is a grandstanding move. Nothing happens in a park. The longer you tie yourselves to occupying parks (even in the face of bad weather - which doesn't make you seem brave, it just makes you seem foolhardy and stupid), the greater chance you run of turning people off.
easy as 123 doe rae me abc thats how easy rEVOLution can be
lol, yessirree...it's ez as 1.2.3. Now, if we can just do it without becoming that which we despise...this will be the real trick.
seriously. advocating killing? anarchist bs, and stop using ows to further your violent agendas. We're trying to actually do something good here, not violent. PEACEFUL assembly, lets make the media right about us.
I have no "violent agenda". If I had it my way, we would have a peaceful resolution to all conflicts. But, alas, I live in the real world.
There was a time, the 60s for example, when peaceful protest made some movement forward. Not that much, but some, and that's only because someone was willing to listen. That just isn't the case anymore. If you really think that you can affect any real change with the governments of today by putting flowers in the barrels of our oppressors' rifles, then you really might want to watch the news. WE ARE LOSING! And all your tree hugging, whale watching BS isn't making anything better. If you are afraid and want to sit on the sidelines, fine. Everyone must walk their own walk, but don't try to fool anyone into believing that you writing on this blog, or sitting at home eating microwave popcorn and sending a few bucks to PETA is going to help anyone. It just isn't happening. We have tried peaceful, asked nicely, now Scott Olsen is brain damaged because you want to stage a love in. Well, I'm tired on empty words without action, exhausted by empty promises made without any intent of fulfillment.
It's time we take this fight to them, instead of them taking our lives and livelihood from us.
"It is not the strongest of the species that survive, nor the most intelligent, but the one most responsive to change." ~Charles Darwin
"Conformity is the jailer of freedom and the enemy of growth" - John Fitzgerald Kennedy
Viva la Revolution.
I hope it isn't as bloody as the French Revolution.
I mean, now we have guns. Back then they only have axes and swords.
Think about it, everywhere you walk you see bodies filled with bullet holes. It's unsettling. Deaths can result in 2-3 seconds. Grenades can blow groups of people up. Oh the humanity!
Yep, there's no way around it, war IS hell.
The real problem with revolution is not that it's bloody and deadly, but that most of them don't start for a long time. People, even if they are living under dire circumstances, would rather deal with business as usual than to go through the mess, bother and the psychological tribulations of...wait for it...change. Yes sir, we humans really get out knickers in a bunch over change. When faced with being whipped 3 times daily and having a gerbil crammed up their butts, or having to face the ordeal of change, most people would balk. Whips and gerbils aren't that bad, after all, so why make a fuss? Yepper, we can get pretty vexed over having to do even one damned thing different than we are used to. It's our lot in life. Unfortunately, it's the same lot we pass on to everyone else at the same time.
You can't kill a corporation. It's not alive. But you can kill the people who are affiliated with the corporation, provided that you find them all.
If you do annihilate all the corporate affiliates, you would've successfully taken down one corporation. The money that they have left can be then dispersed to the middle class to increase their wages and thus their morale, and in turn make everyone's lives better instead of the lives of 30 greedy fat jokes called "humans."
I beg to differ, at least some. Yes, one way to effect change in a company/corporation is to kill the true heads of power. On the other hand, that is a slippery slope and begs the question, "where or with whom does it stop?"
It is possible to kill a corporation. Make it go bankrupt or buy it out and disassemble it's parts and sell it off. How? Well, starting with an aggressive smear campaign might be a good beginning. True or not, even lies make effect tools to start people to wonder. Enough bad press and people will begin to believe. Enough people believing can start a landslide that could bring about a company's demise.
There are many ways to do things...we are a smart country, with imaginative people. To think that there is only one way to accomplish our goals would certainly lead to our eventual defeat.
I completely disagree. We cannot give in to our baser instincts.
Whereas with non-violent resistance we maintain our humanity. To counterpoint, if we give in to our baser instincts we lose our humanity, and become easier to dehumanize. Along with this, we give ourselves to riotousness, and in turn, oppress the oppressors. Notice in animal farm, the pigs ended up as the farmer
with peaceful protest we show a higher sense of humanity then the self-appointed elites. They have lost contol, because controlling others is illusion, self- control is the truest of realities.
For it is from the abstract of self control that reality is changed. By the battlefeild of the mind and heart.
For if we use the battlefield of earth we ligitimize the might is right premise of our opponents and are on our path to become them, not defeat them.
Look to Jesus' and Gahndi's lives if you doubt this. Facing great empires they defeated evil through no outward force. And in so doing forged a world worth living in.
I have to counter your counterpoint. lol. I believe almost wholeheartedly in what you have said. A peaceful resolution to ones problems is always the best and usually the most beneficial course.
On the other hand, it is hard to fight bullets with words. If your aggressors know only strong-arm tactics and have no problem with deadly force resolutions, then the pen becomes a blunted object, ineffective against the tyranny of the insane.
Power not only corrupts, it can drive those with it to a deluded, sometimes even psychopathic state. Trying to rationalize with insane oppressors is akin to trying to pass a herd of camels, stacked on each others backs, through the eye of a surgeon's needle. Even Gandhi said, “It is better to be violent, if there is violence in our hearts, than to put on the cloak of nonviolence to cover impotence.”
As I stated in another reply, we are a smart country, our people imaginative and spirited. It is hard to believe, for me, that we can come up with only one way to achieve a goal. Though, violence may have to play some part in that. I doubt we are going to get very far without some blood being shed, as it already has. I am sure former Marine Scott Olsen can attest to that.
I am ex-military myself and have always believed in a peaceful resolution to any conflict. But, when you are dealing with greed, it is hard to make those crazy, money hungry bastards see beyond their bottom line. I hope it is possible, otherwise we will have to take this fight up more then just a notch.
[EDIT]
I hate to leave this here, because it helps me to lose my voice, and helps to make your point. However, it is a part of who I am and what I believe.
My favorite Martin Luther King Jr. quote that speaks to this line of conversation is, "We must learn to live together as brothers or perish together as fools."
I, too, am former military, and understand the certain need at time to the use of force. This is not such a time.We are waging a moral struggle, or more apt, struggling with immorality in high places.
We cannot win the moral high ground by insurrection. We must be civilized, if what we are working toward is a more civil society.
We protest against the use of force by the 1% to enforce their Ideas, so how would our use of force to promote our Ideas, be any better?
And Martin luther King is anouther great example. Had He used violence, he may or maynot have ended segrigation. But he WOULD NOT have defeated the underlying evil of systemic racism. Only given more fuel for racists to convert more people to their cause.
But MLK DID use noviolence and once again a society was forged where we could all call each other brother and sister, not us and 'them' as pertains to race. Though we still have racists, we truely are a post racial society, and we can thank the non violent, self controlling philosophy of MLK for having accomplished this.
If we are to defeat the 1%, we must change their hearts, and barring that, change the hearts of others by showing the malevolence of greed and indifferce toward their fellow man, though our benevolence of self sacrafice and highlighting the plight of others that the 1% are indifferent about.
To quote Jimmy Buffet:
I can't really say this enough. I agree. Non-violence is always the best, first course of action. I am a great fan of Martin Luther King, Jr. and respect all the things that he had accomplished, and really, still is accomplishing with his legacy.
On the other hand, we are kind of comparing apples and oranges...as well as completely different times. On "apples and oranges", Martin was fighting for equality, not from the government, but from all of us. He was trying to change attitudes, ways that people think. I do agree that greed is a mind set, but how long has this battle been waged? Occupy Wall Street is not the first of it's kind and won't be the last. Yet, we are still in the same place we were a hundred years ago, at the mercy of those with money.
As far as this being a "different time", people, even governments were more willing to listen to us back then. It wasn't easy, by any means, but real changes were made with mostly non-violent protest. That was then. Today our government works in the shadows, hides behind the thousands of laws they have passed. They are no longer concerned with what is right for us, but what is right for them.
Affecting change through non-violent means is not just admirable, but the most important first step. I am not saying that since this is not working and hasn't worked for hundreds of years that our next step is violent protest, necessarily. But stagnating at a step of the process because of fear or popular opinion just ain't getting the job done.
Let's say we decide that the next step is more aggressive, but not necessarily violent. Corporate espionage, high level surveillance, an aggressive smear campaign, embargoes, etc. This is non-violent and is a step forward.
Power is not something people, even fairly rational people, are easily willing to part with. Sometimes it requires more then unkind words and hollow threats to persuade those who think they are the rulers of this planet to give up their fascist hold on our lives. Already Occupy Wall Street like movements have affected change in other countries. Though, most of them were spearheaded with violent/aggressive tactics.
Again, I am all for non-violent change. But, if change isn't being affected, if those who are oppressing us are not willing to listen, what is next?
Well, the next step would have to be change through the democratic process. if history is to be our guild(which I hope it is) then we must exact change through the ballot box..
Yes, this struggle is not new, nor is our responces. Do we follow examples that bring the outcomes we desire? if this is so we continue with non-violence. By raising awareness, we change the national debate. Which has already happened( already in 6 weeks of this thing).
During and after this the proverbial ball is in 'their court' and they may choose violence. But, again, this would be futile. Control of others is an illusion, and depends on the ignorance of the populace, this is ending every day.
After ignorance, the only weapon is violence, or subversion. But violence is fleeting, it requires too much work to force others to do your bidding, and with civil disobediance, force becomes a non-starter.
That's why nonviolence will win the day, especially in this time, this place. For the system to work REQUIRES our willful obediance, and our civil disobediance will bring it down.
The other option for us, is violence, which wrought the bulshivicks and french revolution, these ended dictatorships and replaced them with totalitarianism, in other words, the pigs became the farmers. This is why violence is not an option, we have a historical guild.
And again, it's only 6 weeks into the occupation, MLK, Jesus, and Ghandi spent years to get where we are at. Let's not blow it with impatiance.
The ballot box? Really? I was just thinking you were optimistic or maybe naive, but you really believe American politics is the answer? That time has come and gone, my friend, with JFK. That is what happens to those who want to affect peaceful change in our government. Not so sure? Ask Martin Luther King, Jr. Oh, I forgot, he's dead. How about John's brother, Bobby? Nope, went the way of his brother. What about JFK, Jr.? OMG, I think I see a pattern here.
Control is an illusion?!!! Really?! What is an illusion, in this and many countries, is freedom. I just gave you a list of people to ask about this...but, yeah, they're dead...my bad. Maybe Scott Olsen. Oh shit, he can't tell ya, he can't speak. Hmmm, you're right, American politics works...for those who govern.
It's time to wake up, we are taking too many losses. JFK's assassination should never have been allowed to go unchallenged. Nor Martin's, nor Bobby's, nor Gandhi's, nor JFK Jr's, etc, etc, etc... How many body bags do we need before people realize that those who have power over us might be serious? I think maybe they are. I think there is a difference between patience and apathy.
By the way, violence has also "wrought" many very useful revolutions. The American one comes to mind.
JFK, RFK, Gahndi,MLK and Jesus have agreed, and would agree the cost is worth it. They prophesiesed of their own demise, because they knew that was the cost of freedom, and continued anyhow, they didn't shrink from their own demise, but willingly bore the price for the next generation.... us... And so we too must bear the cost.
Don't think me naive, control of others really is illusion. For it lasts only as long as the power to decieve or the exertion of force. It is by nature transitory.
whereas self control is real, permanent, and leads to lasting change.
The above named examples would also agree, as they preached upon it many, many times.
So, yes, the ballot box would be the next step. And if, as you latently express, the ballot is rigged, it is our responsibility to expose any deception.
And, no, violence has not wrought any useful revolutions. The American Revolution had nothing to do with violence, but rather protection of the innocent. It was Great Britain that attacked, and attacked civilians which brought the necessity of armed intervention to protect the populace.
To that end, we are not anywhere close to that at this point. It would take open attacks on the general population for that to be justified.
I am by no means optimistic or naive, we lost JFK, RFK, MLK, Gahndi, and Christ to the evil of this world, and if we are to win this struggle, it will cost us our best and brightest. But that is what they mean by the 'cost' of freedom
The American Revolution wasn't violent? Oh, it was the British who made it violent, we were just playing...defense? I think, in order for it to have been a revolution, we might have had to do a few violent things. Maybe even...dare I say...kill some people. Violence, like the English brought to us, falls upon us almost daily by our own government, (like with Scott Olsen), and yet we sit on the sidelines taking it, good little, non-violent protesters that we are.
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To quote some of the names we both keep throwing around:
“It is better to be violent, if there is violence in our hearts, than to put on the cloak of nonviolence to cover impotence.” Mahatma Gandhi
"Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." John F. Kennedy
"Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I come not to bring peace, but to bring a sword." Jesus Christ of Nazareth, (Matthew 10:34)
“The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants.” Thomas Jefferson
To have revolution you must have at least two diametrically opposed, easily identifiable and well polarized forces. Look around - nine out of ten are Tories and they are better armed than you are.
I really meant to say in my post when I was speaking of the 60s and the police and our government being afraid of us, that this is how I believe any governing body or law enforcing agency should be and remain. It is "healthy", I think, for our "keepers" to be at least moderately nervous of those they are trying to govern. Without this distress, I am sure that even the most well intentioned representative would soon become corrupt and a puppet of the people with real money. Here's to us gently, but resolutely, placing our boots once again at the throats of our oppressors. ¡Viva la revolución!
Yes, we must be united but using your voice alone will not be heard. Just demanding what we want changed will fall on deaf ears and if we push it, martial law will be reality.
“The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants.” I am sure Thomas Jefferson never heard of automatic weapons, but, I am equally sure, death felt about the same then as today.
I have long pondered the usefulness of today's non-violent protests and have come to the conclusion that you are probably right. The weak can not dictate policy. It may be necessary for us to get a little dirty, if not bloody, in order to make our liberties return. If that is the case, as far as I am concerned, so be it. We have asked very politely, if they want to ignore us, well, we'll just have to show them to the door, very unpolitely.
Power to the people. Stand and Unite!
Amen, sister. Together we stand, divided we are...France. lol
Pizzazz Picasso and the Killumination - Killuminati ft. Gaje http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mLUpGGmku8g
Pizzazz Picasso and the Killumination - Change (Killumination version) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SMrnx6nkRw
Pizzazz Picasso and the Killumination - The inevitable incredible truth http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Wg1bH6-1YY
Pizzazz Picasso and the Killumination - The all seeing eye http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HgKS4i-u0OM
http://www.reverbnation.com/Killumination
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Two clear messages: End the war. End discrimination. That's the difference. Two hundred years ago we wanted freedom from Britain, another clear message.