Forum Post: Responses I have received in the last 20 minutes simply for having a dissimilar view
Posted 13 years ago on Oct. 18, 2011, 11:59 a.m. EST by taxbax
(159)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement
To be clear, I did no antagonizing to receive these responses. The commenters in question will go unnamed because this is a bigger issue with your movement, or at least with the way it is represented in this forum. I realize not every member of the movement acts like this but there is a good contingent of them that has left me too frustrated to engage in a discussion anymore.
"Okay, let me explain to you. We're like animals in a pet shop. We're staging a breakout of the shop - out of the whole damn system - into the wild. And you're the hamster who says you don't want to participate because you got to run on your wheel."
"so that you can get to work and please your boss for $15 an hour? There is a revolution taking place"
"Oh IC Conservatives are for small Gov't like the MIC right? So called Conservatives are for FASCISM and if you don't believe it then your an idiot."
All of them are demeaning, presumptuous, condescending, and insulting. This is no way to engage. And this is why you drive away a good portion of the 99%.
If you don't hear out contrary viewpoints, you will never have the opportunity to change.
If that is what you hear, then they are faulty in their own logic.
Bring the good conversation to the table, and some will spit on you, and some will speak to you. It is only human nature. All that anyone asks is that you gather yourself after a misfortunate conversation and have another. There are those willing.
I respectfully decline. This is not the forum for good conversation and I am disappointed that I can not constructively contribute.
Well, have it somewhere else then. Like, in the real world with people you can see and touch. That is what this is really about, not a chat room.
that guy's a douche. just ignore him
This is one of the finest responses I have read on this forum. Ladies and Gentlemen, please take note. When a response contains with rationality, intelligence, and logic...the strength of your position is instantly recognizable. I can't believe your from CA James ;) jk, lol (I'm a New Yorker fyi).
I would have been there NOW but the documentary I was working on fell through. I am originally from Chicago though. Thanks bro. Watch this link too.. it is me - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SzY6S8KbSmc
I love NYC !!! keep it up
Wow. Have to admit from your look...did not expect that soft a voice lol. Nice job. If you have time, take a look at what I posted here: http://occupywallst.org/forum/ows-is-nothing-but-a-bunch-of-pot-smoking-hippies-/
I always welcome the opinion of rational individuals. But in their absence, you'll do. Good luck with the music career.
Fantastic post.. Ill comment there too. Nice rip.. in their absence, you'll do.. very Chevy Chase circa Caddyshack! thanks for checking out the song.
I agree with you 100%! Please don't get frustrated, there are people out there who can "agree to disagree." Focus on what we all agree on - "A problem with Big Corporations & our Federal Government's involvement with these corporations."
That being said, there seems to be an ubiquitous misunderstanding "Fascism." I hope to clear this up by responding with an excerpt from my comment to another post:
/////////////////////// Excerpt
Fascism is more aligned with the left who want "bigger government" than the right who oppose big government. Consider the following excerpts fro Wikipedia:
"It [fascism] entails a distinctive type of anti-capitalism and is typically, with a few exceptions, anti-clerical."
"Fascism advocates a state-directed, regulated economy that is dedicated to the nation that supports the use and primacy of regulated private property and private enterprise contingent upon service to the nation or state; the use of state enterprise where private enterprise is failing or is inefficient; pursues autarky; and is hostile to: finance capitalism, plutocracy, the "power of money", and internationalist economics."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fascism
It doesn't sound right-wing, conservative or christian to me . . it sounds more leftist . . . actually it could define the "Occupy Wallstreet" movement.
But I have more faith in these people and their movement. I believe they only want change. Figuring out what that change should be is the difficult part.
If you want to be a real problem solver you need to intelligently examine both sides of the debate, find the common thread, identify the problem, and come up with mutually beneficial solutions. None of which is currently being done by Corporations, the Federal Government, of the Occupy Wallstreet movement. Everyone is pointing fingers, calling names and playing the blame game.
////////////////// End excerpt
The name calling and labeling must stop in order to make an effective change!
I will re-post this in a new topic and hopefully people will smarten up and stop calling names and begin naming problems and solutions to those problems.
I completely believe you and I'm sorry.
If it helps, this forum is like having telepathy. You don't just hear what people (the movement in this metaphor) deem appropriate to say, but also all the trash floating around in their subconscious (the revolutionaries, ideologues, and radicals). As a fellow human, I must confess to having a lot of trash in my own subconscious and regularly think things I would be ashamed if anyone heard. I have the decency to not say them and the self-awareness to correct myself internally, but, yeah, not everyone does. So as a person with "telepathy" it is your unfortunate task to ignore the trash you hear in the subconscious of this movement and try to listen for the voice of reason. I do not envy that task.
I'd be delighted to hear your viewpoint and engage in civil discourse if you feel a shortage of that.
Thank you, that is an excellent response. Unfortunately I am going to abandon conversing on this forum. I really tried to get involved but I guess I just don't fit in.
I've gotten a whole lot of condescension, too. I am always amazed that for people who are supposed to be so open-minded, they are sooo ignorant when it comes to conservative political viewpoints and can do nothing but shout insults.
How about some context of what you said to generate these comments? I am willing to hear you out and have no intention of demeaning you in any way.
I understand the need for context but if you can trust that I was not antagonizing, then I prefer not to. This issue, and I mean to help, is purely about the attitude that is directed at opposing view points. It is not constructive and that is clear.
You prefer not to provide context? What a joke.
I explained why, you may do a google site search if you must know. This is not about the context of the discussion, it is about the discussion itself. I support OWS and I am trying to offer advice on how better to engage opposing view points for the progress of the movement.
Without context your post is meaningless.
I've had the same type of responses. I'm guessing you lean more toward libertarianism, and want to try to persuade people with logical arguments. Sadly, the 99% have been brainwashed into thinking a certain way from all the govt schooling. It is very hard to break that trance, considering we've been living in it for decades. Some may be trolls?? But more likely, they are forced to think, and when they get put in a corner, they get defensive. So we can't just argue back, we need to keep making rational points until it clicks. ANd if it doesn't, move on. Those who cant think past their own view are well trained sheep and will come along later.
Either way, you can't give up. I know its frustrating as hell, but giving up is what will co-opt the movement -the diversity of ideas wither. But only through persuasion and peaceful means will we as a people break from the paradigm of govt dependency.
Here's a Kokesh vid, you can skip to the middle, where he discusses with a occupier from a previous vid. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xV13jVww_ww&feature=player_embedded#!
I understand what you are saying. I have received the same from others on this forum for having a differing point of view...
However, I still agree with what the OWS appears to stand for. I say appears because it is actually hard to nail down what the OWS stands for. Best I can tell is to get money out of politics and hold the large bail out corps accountable.
The problem is that for some people they think that posting their bigoted ill informed opinions, that are intentionally ignorant of the facts because they are too lazy or too scared to allow any data that will challenge their comfortable ideological position, should be met with a light touch to their willful ignorance that is destructive and largely responsible for the situation we have today..
The problem is that for some people they think that posting their bigoted ill informed opinions, that are intentionally ignorant of the facts because they are too lazy or too scared to allow any data that will challenge their comfortable ideological position, should be met with a light touch to their willful ignorance that is destructive and largely responsible for the situation we have today..
The problem is that for some people they think that posting their bigoted ill informed opinions, that are intentionally ignorant of the facts because they are too lazy or too scared to allow any data that will challenge their comfortable ideological position, should be met with a light touch to their willful ignorance that is destructive and largely responsible for the situation we have today..
some people are just argumentative period. People who start throwing names around like conservatives and fascists etc have no clue what they're talking about. Just because people might relate partly with a particular group doesn't mean their beliefs match up exactly. you just need to realize that there will be trolls who just like to piss people off in order to win an argument, instead of trying to logically excell in an argument and stop all further resistance to an idea. The only thing you can do is continue to argue as articulately as possible and make sure the proper points are heard while ignoring them as much as you can.
The public is a very fickle community, and most of them being reactive mobs, but many of us have a brain and a mouth that we like to use together at the same time. :\
You might be new to the internet arguing thing, but you have a few choices: Stoop to their level and beat them with experience, Ignore them completely as trolls, use a higher level of intelligence to beat them back with ideas and facts that cripple their own, or completely remove yourself. Only one of these is constructive.
This forum is chaotic and you will run into alot of that. The more rational and intellectual people need to start using the occupyr.com forum. It has much better structure for conveying ideas and viewpoints.
I have had about 4 other forums suggested to be. It is just sad that this is the one officially tied to the movement. It should be shut down for the benefit of the movement.
So lets all quit our jobs, stop paying taxes (those 53% who actually do pay taxes) and revolt! Close all of those mean banks down! We can all live under a bridge or in a park that we trash up all for the cause! Sounds like a perfect world to me! But it's ok if movie stars make way more than anyone else because they support the cause and that makes it ok! I believe in God and thank God I am not one of you 99% .... 99% of what anyway??????
So lets all quit our jobs, stop paying taxes (those 53% who actually do pay taxes) and revolt! Close all of those mean banks down! We can all live under a bridge or in a park that we trash up all for the cause! Sounds like a perfect world to me! But it's ok if movie stars make way more than anyone else because they support the cause and that makes it ok! I believe in God and thank God I am not one of you 99% .... 99% of what anyway??????
Do you know what "out of context" means? Nice ploy.
How cool would it be to almost overnight break through to millions of people all around the world and infect their minds with life changing ideas of freedom…
To give the Tea Party the confidence and intellectual foundation to get a REAL alternative to the “lesser of two evils” political system…
To be able to show the entire play book of the Elite, so that no one ever is fooled by their games…
To show the world the crimes against humanity by the few Elite that control our paradigm…
To be able to systematically and speedily take people through the 5 Stages of Awakening...
To teach people how our debt/money system is rigged game…
To give away the blueprint for leaderless resistance…
How about some context of what you said to generate these comments? I am willing to hear you out and have no intention of demeaning you in any way.
--"If you don't hear out contrary viewpoints, you will never have the opportunity to change."
This. Get over the condescension and try and see the reasoning behind it. Don't complain when it's not spelled out for you. There are people here willing to intelligently discuss, but this thread is useless. Nothing worth discussing here.
If my reasoning is not heard out, then why should I hear out your reasoning. That is the exchange of ideas but this forum wants it to be a one way street.
This same thing is part of the cause of the gridlock in washington, if the senate and house cant even compromise and make reasonable headway, how can they be expected to make the changes necessary to pull our country out of debt, the inability of people to listen and converse is a huge problem, everyone thinks they have the predominate view,
Tax, There are a tremendous amount of people on the forum who are here specifically to taunt and insult. I am far from a conspiracy theorist, but there is mounting evidence that many of these comments are posted by people in opposition to the movement. If you would like to hear some rational discourse, feel free to take a look at my previous posting and add your thoughts. I welcome various viewpoints. http://occupywallst.org/forum/ows-is-nothing-but-a-bunch-of-pot-smoking-hippies-/
The title itself is condescending, why should I click on it?
It's satirical. If after the first 2 sentences you still feel the same, I respect your decision not to continue.
I guess the answer is tough luck. Just because a person won't listen to you is no reason not to listen to them. To take this view is to belittle yourself. Be better than that and listen anyway, even if your responses won't be taken seriously.
Even if you can't teach some people, at least try to learn.
I listen but am not listened to.
Good luck convincing the other 50% to join in your movement with that kind of attitude.
Let me put it another way. If you feel like you're not being listened to, you're not talking to the right people. The whole point of this movement is to talk about things. I think that there is no goal here because the goal is to discuss with one another about the goals.
Talk to more people in the movement. We want your opinion. But not if you're going to be bitter and resentful when you find that odd one out.
I tried to qualify this post with the fact that I understand the whole movement is not like this. I support this movement and so my criticism is directed at those odd ones out because it is them that destroy the progress of discussion. They are just as much trolls as those that spam infowars links.
That may be so but to the rest of us, it feels like you're generalizing us all into the same sort of idiotic babble.
But in any case, this thread really isn't serving a useful purpose other than glorifying your complaint. If you want people to listen, make a thread about something that is important and interesting in the context of this movement, and I'll give it a listen.