Forum Post: Republican Police State in Full Effect: Show Me Your Papers!!
Posted 11 years ago on Feb. 14, 2013, 12:54 p.m. EST by OTP
(-203)
from Tampa, FL
This content is user submitted and not an official statement
Daytime roadside checks. Unreal.
They are intentionally trying to create a shit storm to further pillage our rights.
What were you expecting from a state where it's a felony to photograph a farm??
Vehicle inspection is the least of your worries.
You got yer Koch fueled Rube.
http://www.alternet.org/environment/state-denial-more-dirty-energy-policies-expected-koch-fueled-marco-rubio
And you get yer Taliban for Jesus.
http://angryblackladychronicles.com/2013/02/14/proposed-florida-for-life-act-is-really-ridiculously-unconstitutional/
and that's just what I found without looking.
You really should continue to make that (R)epelican't connection.
You know, expound upon it's ill intended reality.
It makes no sense for every third or fifth car. Looks profit motivated as less taxes has been a Florida battle cry that money has to come from somewhere.
Its completely out of control. Traffic cameras and tolls everywhere, they just put in computerized parking meters for lord only knows how much money.
There is no end in sight to this monster.
http://www.sunshinestatenews.com/story/florida-supreme-court-hear-red-light-camera-cases-could-refund-millions-dollars
provides this company http://www.atsol.com/our-company/executive-team/
and the law
what other corps are involved?
Nice link on the company.
Im not sure what other corps are involved, if atsol does it from top to bottom. but I do know that each intersection raises on average about 450k per year.
Thanks. It does look like that is the company. And then there is this guy: http://www.lonerganpartners.com/american-traffic-solutions-john-goldsberry
There is a tab up there that shows their clients. You might find that interesting.
Here is the bill but they only have the roll call for the Florida House of Representatives http://www.myfloridahouse.gov/Sections/Bills/billsdetail.aspx?BillId=42624&
Why is a traffic camera so offensive to you. Would there be a difference if there a was a policeman observing the intersection as well? Or do you prefer that people just flaunt the law. What is the issue with tolls. The users of the highway should pay for the highway more than the non-users. As for parking meters, would you prefer the old mechanical version that requires much more maintance and cost? The kiosk system that I have used is much more preferred. Get your slip for the time you want, put it inside your windshield. So simple, much more cost effective for the municipality (and the taxpayers). Traffic cameras catch offenders, so what's the problem? As for traffic / safety stops, while it can be a nuisance, it has removed a lot of DUI, uninsured and unlicensed drivers from the highways. And that is a good thing. If everyone would obey these simple driving requirements, do you realize the real savings that could be had with insurance, catastrophic medical cost, etc, and best of all: less traffic death and destruction and the suffering to our loved ones. When you loose someone to a DUI or unlicensed driver, you will change your tune rather quickly. Last time I checked, driving is a privilege, not a right. Do you have a problem with EZ Pass also?
don't look at it like an engineering problem where man power and money is saved by technology look at like a civil rights issue. would you really want a cop at every intersection and in every car jotting down the license plates of every car that comes and goes because that is what the cameras and scanners represent. do you really want them knowing your movements, where you go and when?
Do not really care if they take a photo of me everyday or not. . And what would they possily do with all that data? And there is othing wrong with logical thought processes and civil rights issues. Most eveything regarding civil rights is using common sense with an unbiased and fair approach, nothing more. Let me ask you this. Do you use facebook or similar media? If yes, then you are feeding anyone everything they need to know. If you use these social networks, then how is that any different? What possibly would be so interesting in the government want to know that's drive here or there? The governement is not just a thing, there are people behind it. Do not fear technology.
Its the people behind it that i fear. The system will do anything to protect itself. What could they possibly do with all the data? Have you not heard of the fusion centers? I don't want the cops watching and following me or anyone else not suspected of a crime.
because it is big brother watching.
I do not fear "big brother" or any other agency.
then you are ignorant. another "professional" who is dumb as fuck.
Wrong answer. You assume incorrctly and that shows your ignorance, not mine. You know nothing of what I know. And what are you, unprofessional?
if you don't fear "big brother" you are a moron.
Beep, wrong answer. Try again.
Organize.
Or let government organize for you.
What is that in response to? Your making assumptions about which you know nothing about. Just to answer, I am actually quite good at getting things done and internationaly known within my field of discipline.
You missed an "l" on internationally.... how ironic is that? :)
So what's your point? I have always been a poor typist.
Because it does not PROVE whom was driving. For simplicity, all of our vehicles are registered in my name. Last year I received a traffic camera ticket in the mail. Problem was, I was not the driver.
But you likely know who was. So make them come forward and take responsibility.. And would you continue to let him / her drive your vehicle with that type of behavior? You realize if they had an accident, you would likely be also libel in any potential legal matter. Think of it this way. You let someone use something maybe worth $30,000, but not ask them to be careful, instead, just let them drive fast or reckless, risking possible total loss of your property, plus putting you in jeapordy of litigation that may clean out a substantial piece of your personal assets. Now does that sound like sane behavior, or are you now rethinking letting people use your cars, or maybe re-titling them?
Yes, I know exactly whom it was, but the burden of proof rests with the police (the accuser). You've just turned the presumption of innocence upside down. Beside, I cannot be compelled to give evidence against the person who committed the "crime" -- yet this is exactly what is demanded.
FWIW, challenging the law on exactly this basis is bearing fruit locally.
Moreover, the yellow light has been set, or rather reset, from 5.5 secs to 3.2 secs in an effort to create more revenue. Last evening, while driving the speed limit (35 mph), the light turned as I approached and I was forced to brake very hard to not run it. As it was, my tire touched the magic line as I came to a literal screeching stop and the camera flashed.
And, last week, someone was rear-ended at the same intersection for the same reason.
I will agree that if used in the manner you described, then it becomes problematic. But I will respond to the "camera and who is driving"? If you have an EZPass, and the driver goes through too fast, or the driver that borrowed your car goes through the EZPASS lane and gets tagged, do you have a problem with that fine? Even if you are not the driver? You realize that is actually theft of service? Would you pay the fine or tell the car borrower to pay it? This is really about accountability. If everyone that received a ticket from a camera system said" I was not driving", then what? Your proposing a break down of civil order. If you do something wrong, then own up to it. It is the honorable thing to do. It is what is wrong with society today. Nobody wants any accountability for their actions, just get a lawyer and get out of the problem. I prefer a little honesty.
"If everyone that received a ticket from a camera system said" I was not driving", then what? Your proposing a break down of civil order."[sic]
No, I am supporting Constitutional rule of law, specifically the Fifth and Sixth Amendments. The police accuse me of a "crime". They must prove it. We can agree that the crime took place and my vehicle was involved. But that does not prove that I committed it.
Let's extend this a bit further. Your vehicle is stolen late one night. A pedestrian is killed by your vehicle in a hit and run, and the accident is recorded by a video camera, but there is no clear picture of whom is driving. The police accuse you. Prove you didn't do it.
Excellent conudrum. And you would be forced to do that in any case. But at least they have the car that was involved in the hit and run. Sure there are issues on both sides. It is wrong for any agency to put system at trapping limits such as you mentioned with the timing change. There should be built in allowances so the get the flagrant drivers, which there are quite a lot of them these days. I am ok with any technology the police use to enforce the law, but I also have limits as it mention with the amendments noted. Would you agree there is a lack of accountability on all sides of this issue? How do we find the proper balance?
Tough question. Balance is difficult, because both liberty and safety (freedom from fear of others in the community) are important goals of governance. To answer the question we must first decide what takes precedence: liberty or safety?
Two very true horns of the dilemma. When favoring one, the opposite can be exploited, sometimes to our detriment. Thanks for the exchange, good discussion. We are left with this challenge: How do we come to satisfy each other with our choices?
Compromise...
Yes, absolutely.
Wow, thats a handful. I dont like cameras because I dont like cameras. Lets set one right up in your front yard, thatd be cool. When you get a few $158 dollar tickets for rolling through right hand turns, because they think you are too dumb to make sure there is no one coming, we will see what your tune is. Unless you make a nice check every week, and can afford it.
I have no problem with tolls, except after the highway is paid for, instead of using the money for highway maintenance and using the extra for other road maintenance, it gets thrown in the trough with the rest of the slop every april 15th.
And no, the other meters werent more expensive to work on, go ask the meter people about that. And they were cheaper. You think they are going to install those fancy things and keep the rate the same? Like a restaurant, every time you see menu change....expect higher prices for the staples.
So seems how you think routine traffic stops are good, lets ask this: If it removes 20% of the problems, what further steps can we implement to remove the rest of the 80%?
At what point do you draw your line in your hope for a 100% perfect world?
No need for a camera in my yard, i stop at red lights before turning. So should everyone else. Have you ever driven in Europe? In Germany and Switzerland, they have speed cameras. And the fines are extremely high! The result? Virtually no one exceeds the posted limit. After driving unlimited on the autobahn, when coming into end of limit with a posted rate, every single car suddenly adjusts to that rate. It is rare to see anyone violate the driving rules. This is partially due to the following: a better sense of personal responsibility, very high fine, and an expensive and hard to acquire driving license which they do not wish to lose.
As for meters, the system I mentioned works quite well with only one or two kiosk per block. No meters required. If parking in limited areas was free, no one would ever move the car, which then inhibits local business activity.
As for traffic stops, like I said, they can be a nuisance, but the threat of this will help drive people off the road that should not be driving. In my opinion, the fines should be 5 to 10 times the amounts they are now. And driving under suspension, etc. should have car impounded or taken immediately, and driver fined heavily, and maybe even some prison time. No world is perfect but what do you think would happen if these (or similar) was the rules instead of what we have now? I am not talking about simple mistakes, but clear intentional violation.
okay we can adopt their driving policies just as long as we get the free healthcare and education they receive as well.
One has nothing to do with the other.
Um, sorry but I have been to Europe, and anyone will tell you they drive way more crazy over there than they do here.
Those expensive kiosks were a shitload of money to buy and install, and the rates went up to "cover the costs".
And Ill ask you again, if one traffice stop per day on a road stops 10% of the problem, why not do 10 a day on that road, right?
Does your fear know no bounds?
I was specific about Switzerland and Germany, and drivers follow the rules. I have driven in Italy, and yes, the further you go south, red lights become optional. Try driving in Sicily. But I digress. So you prefer individual mechanical meters vs a kiosk system? In the long run, kiosks are obviously a better option, both forthe municipality and the people using them.
The math supposition you are using for stops would not be linear. Have you not observed a higher presence of traffic stops for DUI on certain holidays, etc. just the threat of these is making people wake up and be responsible? What is your opinion of higher fines for obvious violations and flagrant repeat offenders?
I'm surprised you didn't notice this.
http://www.alternet.org/education/floridas-school-prison-pipeline-largest-nation
A bill to repeal laws allowing local governments to install red light cameras cleared the House Economic Affairs Committee on Thursday by a narrow 10-8 vote.
Law enforcement officials and lobbyists for the Florida League of Cities spoke out against HB 4011, saying red light cameras change driver behavior and help save lives.
“The choice to have red light cameras is a local decision and we want it to stay that way,” said Casey Cook, lobbyist for Florida League of Cities.
Rep. Daphne Campbell, D-Miami, sponsor of the bill, insisted the cameras are about money, not safety.
“It’s just a money market business that’s all it is,” Campbell said.
Others on the panel argued that saving one life was reason enough for the cameras, and Rep. Ed Hooper, R-Clearwater, sideswiped Campbell’s motives, alluding to recent reports of her husband’s red light tickets.
“Notwithstanding how that affects your family personally, do you have any documents to prove that the cameras are robbing people of their hard-earned money?” asked Hooper, a retired firefighter who said he's dealt with several red light crashes.
Cameras in municipalities throughout Florida flagged nearly 1 million drivers for red light infractions in the 2011-2012 fiscal year. Some of those infractions were for not stopping at a red light before making a right turn, not for running a red light.
The fine for a red light traffic infraction is $158, of which the state receives $83. In the 2011-2012 fiscal year, the state received $51 million from the citations, with $43 million going to general revenue, $6.1 million going to the Health Administration Trust Fund and $1.9 million going to the Brain and Spinal Cord Injury Trust Fund. http://www.thefloridacurrent.com/article.cfm?id=31553467
And here is the Florida League of Cities and that is a charming little get up, ain't it?
I was arrested and jailed for the night in the town I grew up in for not having an ID
We have the red light cameras popping up all over Ontario, Canada as well. Thanks for bringing the information to us OTP.
Just fuct.
What this really does is makes way toward changes. We are coming faster and stronger with every such act against this free country. As the offenses accumulate so does the reaction. At this time we go into the cutting of their own throats. Let the stupidity on the part of these people speak for itself because we now know what it is about and it is not in the name of America! I am WE...
Oh so now everyone is complaining because the state police want to do a safety inspection. What's wong with that - Does Fla have an inspection procedure - probably not.
Wonder how many deaths will be stopped because of them doing this - probably lots - and you can be sure they will be jailing drunk drivers, drug users and anyone else who is in violation of the law - what's wrong with that?
Making your life more safe - right? So stop whining and deal with it.
Trollin' trollin' trollin'
Keep your bullshit rollin'................
http://www.flickr.com/photos/57856066@N02/8360821179/in/photostream
You are a one trick pony. Found a new toy did you?
Cute. Except I don't look like that. But, thanks for playing.
Trollin' trollin' trollin'
LOL,seems we now know the face behind the insults,thanks.
Can't stand the truth can you? Your reply is indicitive of your IQ -
Trollin' trollin' trollin'
Keep your bullshit rollin'............
Wonder Bread sales rep, you lose.
Can't stand it can you - your responses indicate that I am a thorn in your side and you dont' know how to deal with it -
People on this site who see your posts look at you as that of a 12 year old instead of an adult because a 12 year old responds like that when they don't get their way.
Keep up the good work. .
Trollin' trollin' trollin'
Keep your bullshit rollin'............
Can't stand it can you - your responses indicate that I am a thorn in your side and you dont' know how to deal with it -
People on this site who see your posts look at you as that of a 12 year old instead of an adult because a 12 year old responds like that when they don't get their way.
Keep up the good work. .
I intend to. You are a paid for shill to show people "another way".
I'm digging your other way...........the one where you fail to read. It's fun. You're a fucking troll and I am going to remind you.
So what proof do you have that I am being paid? This is another example of how a 12 year old thinks -
You know nothing about me and you can't even provide proof that I am being paid - You are letting your age get in the way of rational thinking - but then again a 12 year old doesn't think rationally anyway - do they?
Trollin' trollin' trollin'
Keep your bullshit rollin'............
Thanks for the great opportunity to give you lots of twinkles and stinkles to the "Wonder Bread sales rep" LOL
You police state sheep are a disgrace to freedom and would be hammered out of existence if this were founding fathers time.
Instead, you are only one in a wave of sheep that is more than willing to further the rules and give away rights, simply because you are scared.
Tell ya what, lets create a huge government agency that goes door to door every morning to make sure nothing is "dangerous" on their vehicles.
And fuck it, we'll send em into the house to make sure its safe there too.
Cant be too cautious, right?
Well I don't hear very many people standing up for firearms owners rights -
What about smokers rights -
What about the asshole in NYC who wants to ban Big drinks
No outrage there -
Yeah, "right" the NRA's version.
http://angryblackladychronicles.com/2013/02/14/wayne-lapierre-buy-a-gun-or-brown-people-will-kill-you/
Buncha shitheads
Trollin' trollin' trollin'
Keep your bullshit rollin'................