Forum Post: Rebellion not revolution
Posted 13 years ago on Sept. 28, 2011, 3:27 a.m. EST by simontzu
(1)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement
Every revolution dies into another orthodoxy.
It has been always so.
That's why I am not for revolution: I am for rebellion. Rebellion is individual.
But when many rebels are there and they want to live together, respecting each other's individuality, each other's freedom, each other's uniqueness—that's the meaning of a commune. It is not a society. It is not an establishment. It is not an organization in the old sense.
A commune is a communion of individuals who have all rebelled against all kinds of stupidities, superstitions. That is their meeting point. But that does not mean that they create an alternative society, another establishment. Then it would only be revolution.
Try to understand the difference clearly. If they don't create any establishment, and start living intelligently together, howsoever difficult it is—it is going to be a little difficult; otherwise why have people chosen to make organizations and establishments?—because it is less difficult….
I am an anarchist.
I basically believe in the individual.
I don't believe in the society at all.
I don't believe in civilization, in culture. I simply believe in the individual.
I don't believe in the state, I don't believe in the government. I don't want any government in the world, any state in the world.
I simply want intelligent people to live harmoniously out of their intelligence. And if they cannot live out of intelligence, it is better to die than to become robots, to become machines, to be nagged and to be imprisoned in all kinds of slavery. It is better to be finished. We should live intelligently, and our order will come out of our intelligence, not vice versa.
That's what has been tried before; enforce order so that people can function intelligently. Now, that is absolutely stupid. Once you enforce order you destroy intelligence, you destroy even the possibility of it ever growing. There is no need…. Man has been a calamity, a curse to existence.
Rebellion means making man a blessing to existence, not a curse.
evolution, not rebellion. https://www.facebook.com/note.php?note_id=10150409084095833 (sick and tired of the rebel without a clue phenomenon.)
Politics is broken and replacing it with another system or -ism just isn't going to work.
Sure we need agreements like
As soon as these agreements become rigid and inflexible laws with punishments for not obeying and we start to blindly follow them (or reactionarily break them) we lose our harmony.
This is the idea of the commune. We become conscious of how we engage one another. We stop sleepwalking through life and stay awake. We have agreements which we can re-negotiate as soon as they no longer work...
This is a very important time in the evolution of our planet. And NYC is right now ground Zero.
A chance for a re-invention of how we live together in society. There is no need to assume anything...
It is not that I cannot visualize this wonderful idea, and I feel like the idea of necessary communities working together for the better of the community is a base instinct. It makes me think of a vonnegut quote:
"Human beings will be happier - not when they cure cancer or get to Mars or eliminate racial prejudice or flush Lake Erie but when they find ways to inhabit primitive communities again. That's my utopia. Kurt Vonnegut "
I definitely appreciate the post, Achim. I wish that everyone were carpenters and our lives were led in a way more conductive to the cooperative and social sides of our nature.
I definitely employ this lifestyle more so than isolation as do many of my friends.
I enjoy the dialogue. thanks
B
"While there is a state, there is no freedom. When there will be freedom, there will be no state" (V.Lenin)
I agree in many ways with you, but in my oppinion you should also take responsibility in your commune. I mean, when free people choose to live together in this moment you also take your responsibility for this people. To benni, this is alreaydy your answer.
When you are a carpenter and you roof is broken you go and fix it. Nobody has to pay you for this, nobody has to give you a job and a boss for this. You just do it. And its the same in the commune.
I dont want to talk to much here now, especially about the "nature of men" you can find many many contrary studies, which show that the evolutionary grown behaviour of men is a cooperative and social one instead of a egoistic or agressiv one. But its the system, the environment in which we life, which makes us the men we are.
And to npowell85 I just can say, there are in fact many examples in history, like the Ukraine, Paris, Barcelona and today you have anarchist projects and communes all over the world working sometimes already for over 120 years. The inner part of Kopenhagen is occupied now for almost 40 years, Christiana. Some google searches will get you know everything, even from "serious" media.
Although I have similar ideals about rebellion and the freedom to think for myself, I have doubts and questions with some of your views. I am not trying to offend you, but I am simply making some questions and comments for you to think about, and perhaps answer from your perspective. This way I can see more about how someone such as yourself sees things.
How do you topple power struggle, hatred, bigotry, or crime in a continent wide, heavily occupied populace of 'communes'?
what do even 10 people do in a commune when human nature kicks in and something terrible is done by one to the group, or when one uses his intelligence to unfairly disadvantage the whole in favor of helping his own self out?
how do you keep the lights on? who works? when do they work, why do they work? where do they work, what are they working for? If no one fixes the roof because they are caught up 'rebelling', then what happens with the roof? these are just observations with the flaws in the non-system you speak of.
How would men trade? how would they learn trades? where do you propose we learn these things if no one is responsible for anyone else? One man cannot possibly learn every thing themself!
I believe culture may be mass produced in places such as this country, but even in small tribal societies that live in extreme survival situations, there is community based out of need and out of instinct
We are born and we stay with our parents, is that in and of itself a commune as you speak? What if parents never used order with their children? when is it okay for rebellion and self-servitude to take over?
For this belief system to accurately work, you would have to have such intellectuals and specialists in tight knit groups to keep every day happening, and I wonder how sharp intelligent people would be without the order of education?
In my opinion, it is not order 'that destroys' intelligence, However, intelligence, wisdom, and confidence definitely aids the feeling of a lack of power, social conditioning (that its okay not to think, not okay TO think) is very common, and this is the very nature of the selfishness in man that divides people and gives others room for manipulation and control.. That does not mean a conditioned, selfish person obeying the law and believing in the government cannot grow, only that it will take a meaningful and/or personally significant reasoning to change their view point.
for ten+ years people have been complacent and now something significant is happening because it has finally gotten so bleak its affecting our over indulgent lives.
I agree the systems of modern society must change. Many things need to be removed. New things need to come, but this argument has holes in every sentence.
My two cents.
There is no way that a government-less society will exsist in our, or probably any lifetime. It simply cannot happen, anarchy is not a realistic outcome. Anything but comprimise with the current system is simply a pipe-dream and not a very well thought out one at that. Small incrimental changes, the repeal of corporate personhood, the end of lobbying, true campaign finance reform, maybe doing away with the FED, one or two of these should be considered a great success. Wishing for more is nothing but a waist of time and forum space.