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Forum Post: Public Unions Have Sucked the Life Out of The United States

Posted 12 years ago on Nov. 18, 2011, 10:54 p.m. EST by RexDiamond (585) from Idabel, OK
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

Detroit is the result. A wasteland left over after America experiments with European big Govt and union control. California is next. It's time to tell the unions they are no longer welcome.

51 Comments

51 Comments


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[-] 5 points by shoozTroll (17632) 12 years ago

In Michigan it was a republican governor that screwed up the state, not unions. Engler was his name. He went on to being a leader of domestic manufacturing in the Bush government.

See what a good job he did?

[Removed]

[-] -3 points by RexDiamond (585) from Idabel, OK 12 years ago

The Governor does not destroy the economy. It was liberals pushing union pay hikes and other exuberant demands. Everyone see it. It's the main reason more states are going to "right to work."

[-] 1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 12 years ago

Yeah he did. I was here and watched it. Screwed this state sideways.

How did he do during the Bush years?

"right to work" = race to the bottom. Fully endorsed by Heritage and CATO and the PR machines it creates.

Unions matter now more than ever.

[-] -3 points by RexDiamond (585) from Idabel, OK 12 years ago

I think you need to research what the Governor's roles are.

[-] 3 points by shoozTroll (17632) 12 years ago

You need to look at reality.

Heritage, CATO, Alec and a host of others, inform laws and marketing/PR in ways you have never thought about.

Mostly, they don't tell the truth.

Nice that you ignore the "great" job Engler did for domestic manufacturing during the Bush years.

Mostly he seemed to work for China.

[-] -2 points by RexDiamond (585) from Idabel, OK 12 years ago

The Governor is not in charge or has any real control over a state economy unless he enacts legislation that hinders profits. Period. That, in most all cases takes a vote by both cabinets.

[-] 0 points by shoozTroll (17632) 12 years ago

Yep, he did that. Screwed this state up.

You still miss the rest of the points I made.

No propaganda on the Heritage site?

[-] -2 points by RexDiamond (585) from Idabel, OK 12 years ago

Screwed the state up is not an answer. If he is too soft on unions and letting them run rampant, then he would be partly to blame. But it's clear that the union has no end to what it will do to anyone who tries to control them. They used to be for the People. They are now just for the top percent. This is the main flaw with this movement. The majority can see this.

[-] 0 points by shoozTroll (17632) 12 years ago

OIC

More propaganda.

Still no comment on his national track record?

[-] 3 points by shadz66 (19985) 12 years ago

@ RD : Are you REALLY suggesting that it is "Public Unions" RATHER THAN 'Privately Owned Banking Corporations' which have "Sucked the Life Out of" The U$A ?!! Seriously ?! Are you nuts ?

[-] -1 points by RexDiamond (585) from Idabel, OK 12 years ago

I dare you to find a way to justify this. And you wonder why companies outsource. Imagine what they do to private companies.

http://www.masstransitmag.com/news/10279894/wi-159k-bus-driver-no-longer-tops-the-list-of-highest-earners-in-madison-city-government

[-] 3 points by ronimacarroni (1089) 12 years ago

I think they Walmart employees should unionize.

Lets see them try to outsource that!

[-] 2 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 12 years ago

Wal Mart spits out anti Union propaganda all the time to their employees. They're told to report to a manager if someone comes in trying to discuss a union.

[-] 2 points by gestopomillyy (1695) 12 years ago

then they are lawbreakers

[-] 1 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 12 years ago

yessir

[-] 2 points by ronimacarroni (1089) 12 years ago

we'll see how long that lasts

[-] 2 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 12 years ago

it's lasted since the first Wal-Mart.

Wal-Mart is the most depressing place to work. You can feel the shattered dreams. I worked at one for 6 months when I was 17. I hated every minute of it.

[-] 1 points by JonoLith (467) 12 years ago

In twenty years all Retail Service Jobs will be replaced by Robots. It's the future.

[-] 2 points by divineright (664) 12 years ago

What we need is worker protection for all workers under one umbrella. Call it a "union" if you want, but I don't think we can honestly focus on protecting some employees while letting others go to the wayside. It really needs overseeing from a Federal level. All the more reason we need to do the best we can to have incorruptible leaders.

[-] -1 points by RexDiamond (585) from Idabel, OK 12 years ago

Look what unions are doing to professional sports. Like an NBA player needs a union. Look at how well the union gets the players to demand more.

NFL player Adrian Peterson said the owners were running modern day slavery. Unions did that.

[-] 2 points by michael4ows (224) from Mountain View, CA 12 years ago

The tech sector in california is generally not unionized. california big govt budget is out of control thou.

[-] 2 points by gestopomillyy (1695) 12 years ago

ignorant managers and ignorant state an fed government were the cause of Detroit. nothing to do with unions or workers

[-] 1 points by ljbnomad (20) from Seattle, WA 12 years ago

Balance is the key to making proclamations about things like unions.

Yes, there have been unions which, at some point, got co-opted by union reps who enjoyed the "Big Man on Campus" position and put posture and agendas far ahead of the big picture of both who and what the union(s) existed for. We recognize these examples, especially if they crippled their own employers.

However, there are also many more unions that were created for, and still exist and function to, work for their members (who are in a way the offshoot of general citizenry who do not have some of the same rights/concessions in their own work experiences, these days.)

It's a good idea to do some real research on, and gain understanding of, your own city's public unions. Many of the gains were fought hard for, and others had to be developed for specific work populations with stresses that the general workforce has trouble empathizing with - like first responders, cleaning/garbage staffing, and unprotected faculty.

One ting to keep in mind, whether you like or dislike unions: the rights they fight for now (like pay, pensions, benefits, etc.) are exactly the rights they did not have in many cases when other parts of the population DID have them. Now that the private sector has limited jobs, pay, benefits, pensions, etc., it's tempting to think that unions represent those who now seem to have an unfair advantage. Not so - they strive to protect rights that employees had to fight for to be in line with the private sector of the past. Nowadays, the private sector employees NEED to start fighting back for the rights they themselves have had taken away, rather than trying to cut down those in the unions who are working to keep the protections they fought so hard to get.

Be well!

[-] 1 points by aeturnus (231) from Robbinsville, NC 12 years ago

Unions always will face a turbulent time in a capitalist economy. That is pretty much a given, given the way capitalism tends to work. In effect, capitalists use the government as a means to threaten the people if they were to demand anything, really. Raise the minimum wage? We'll just raise the prices. So, naturally, conservatives are going to push it, and much of the so-called conservative middle class and others are going to be scared. Public unions face even more scrutiny, though, because they infringe on taxes. If they want decent wages, then taxes go up. It is not us who should be scared. The businesses should be scared if they dare to threaten us with wage cuts and cuts in health care. Secondly, there will always be boom and bust cycles, and the problems with those ought to be shared. I believe unions ought to be fighting for worker control and ownership, both at the private and public levels. Most of them do not, somewhat because of issues relating to union bosses and so forth. The IWW is the only union that I know of that actively advocates worker ownership as the end result. The Steelworkers Union has recently showed more in this regard, with their partnership with Mondragon in Spain.

[-] 1 points by Trucker4Prez (51) 12 years ago

Typically, unions form in bottom of the barrel corporations known for treating people like shit. Detroit is the result of a non-diversified economy that relied heavily on an industry too caught up in supporting it's executives that it fell by the wayside in technology and innovation and efficiency, paving the way for foreign competitors to build a better product. Detroit also outsourced huge percentages of jobs to Canada and Mexico, thereby laying off there their biggest loyal customer base! So, Detroit shot itself in the foot alright. But not by having unions.

And though I'm not union, I respect what unions have done for this country and their suffrage for many things we now take for granted, as fair labor practices.

Fact: many American made products are only slightly more expensive than their foreign competitor. In most instances, the American made products are safer, more durable/reliable, and in some cases have a higher resale value. Buying American-made reduces our trade deficit, creates American jobs, and reduces the national debt by increasing tax revenues.

[-] 0 points by mediaauditr (-88) 12 years ago

Just like the NLRB (National Labor Relations Board) shutting down the Boeing plant because they were not going to use union workers http://tinyurl.com/64jfteo It's sickening that so many non-union people buy into the rhetoric.

[-] 0 points by Joyce (375) 12 years ago

Let me frame this without the permission of Rex having dealings with the Chicago unions.....for the most part, these workers are decent (despite the few who are thrown on your job by the local BA only to be "injured" that day). The bosses only want benefits payed and the envelop under the table. As for the common worker, they could give a rats ass, unless it's a non-union job so they can put out their blow up rat. Unions once had a place; OSHA covers work safety now, the work place has never been more safe. ACLU covers ground for working America, who needs the union?

[-] 1 points by divineright (664) 12 years ago

The sad part is I agree we need Federal protection for workers. OSHA and the ACLU may be a good start, but they need to be more effective and more efficient. In fact, if they could be effective enough, perhaps unions would become redundant.

[-] 1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 12 years ago

OSHA don't cover shit.

Never did. Remember the Massy mining disaster.

Unions are still very necessary.

In fact, as they have diminished, so has the middle class. That's been proven, over and over.

I do get tired of the repetitive nature of the words spoken against them.

It's the same think tanks and PR machines, putting out the lies. Backed by the same kinds of industrialists.

The ACLU doesn't normally handle workers rights cases.

Where do you git this stuff?

[-] 1 points by Joyce (375) 12 years ago

OSHA? Really you fool. If you actually owned a business and had to be aware of these pressures, you would recognize that OSHA is all everyone's ass! In fact, it's a great tool these days given minimal margins versus your competition.  I'm a small business owner in Milwaukee and my competition call s OSHA in a blink without cause. In fact, OHSA has caught on as we are fully in compliance. Don't pretend to know what you have NEVER experienced. In fact, google OSHA efforts over the past 6 months and you will find a directed-enhanced effort.

[-] 1 points by Joyce (375) 12 years ago

That's where I "get my stuff" how about you?

[-] 0 points by shoozTroll (17632) 12 years ago

You must be small.

The big guys pay a nominal fine and go on as they please. People still get hurt over it.

I know this for a fact as I worked for one of them. They mostly laughed at OSHA. They'd put some of the guards back on for the tour and take 'em off the next day, despite union grievances.

I knew a young girl that got half her face torn off over it. Then they put the guard back on.

She got to sue, and the union grievances helped her win her case.

Hate to think how that kind of thing goes in a non union shop.

You skipped over the mining disaster too.

Convenient?

[-] 1 points by Joyce (375) 12 years ago

Mining is not my world. Labor in Chicago.....can you get more intense? And yes, I'm "small" enough to have Waste Management on my ass. The reality is that there are agencies looking over every inch that at one time never existed. The progressives would like everyone to believe that we operate in a 1920's mode.....far from it.....the union boys (and girls to be fully PC for the progressives) have every entity on speed dial for non complacent rules..........convenient, no.....do I operate in a reality you have neither the appreciation nor understanding.....yes....get a clue......

[-] 1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 12 years ago

At least you still have your face. So maybe you need a clue too.

Lots of folks died in the non union mining disaster despite numerous fines from OSHA.

Are you saying the garbage men call OSHA on you?

[-] -1 points by gestopomillyy (1695) 12 years ago

and you think those government groups are not being paid off?

[-] 1 points by Joyce (375) 12 years ago

Yes, by the unions.

[-] 1 points by gestopomillyy (1695) 12 years ago

by corporations

[-] 0 points by Joyce (375) 12 years ago

I was literally told, on the phone by local 225 in Chicago to get my companies funds transferred ASAP for benefits because they had a "fundraiser" to attend. Corporations?

[-] 1 points by gestopomillyy (1695) 12 years ago

so you think that unions(made up of people that work) intentionally vote for issues that are to their own detriment? within the union i mean

[-] 1 points by Joyce (375) 12 years ago

No, what I am saying is that the union bosses could give two shits about their workers.

[-] 0 points by RexDiamond (585) from Idabel, OK 12 years ago

Bingo. They are as corrupt as they come, and I am about sick of them trying to influence our political atmosphere.

[-] -1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 12 years ago

Still can't think of anything original?

[-] 0 points by MVSN (768) from Stockton, CA 12 years ago

Too simplistic. Yes and no.

[-] -1 points by Lizzy0Windsor (36) 12 years ago

So your kind can further exploit workers?

[-] -3 points by RexDiamond (585) from Idabel, OK 12 years ago

Quit hiding behind the workers. Public unions in the midwest are a joke. A criminal money laundering scam. They used to serve a purpose, now they are nothing but the mafia. When people try to fight back, union leaders design mass protests and civil unrest.

[-] 2 points by nucleus (3291) 12 years ago

Protests?! --- How UnAmerican.

[-] 2 points by TrevorMnemonic (5827) 12 years ago

Yeah the Declaration of Independence was bullshit. -sarcasm

[-] 1 points by shoozTroll (17632) 12 years ago

You watch too many movies.

That's the same crap they said in the forties.

Jeez. At least come up with something original.

[-] -1 points by brettdecker (68) 12 years ago

Excellent post,very well put.