Forum Post: psychological theory and how it corresponds to a viable solution
Posted 13 years ago on Oct. 11, 2011, 11:33 p.m. EST by tim4490
(15)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement
Many philosophers and psycho-analysts alike would agree that human beings act entirely out of self interest and that this underlying influence of human behavior cannot be helped. If this is indeed true (and it has proven itself so for many, many years) then we MUST come to understand how this can fit into a vital and practical solution if we are to take ourselves seriously.
To simplify this examination, lets set aside all other concerns (political or otherwise) for now and speak purely of human psychology and of a certain physical principle called "The Law of Increasing Returns". To begin, This law states that as more individuals come together towards a common definite end, the payout reached will increase exponentially. This is why we form political parties, etc as we come to work towards shared ideals we grow our strength not in multiples by in exponents. Mathematically this kind of phenomenon is called a factorial. It is also why technology progresses at an exponential rate (why computers get faster in shorter and shorter periods of time.)
If you are able to grasp an understanding of the above principle, then you must understand where this is going. That is is every mans self interest to be as agreeable as possible with the largest amount of people possible so that the returns that the individual will see in the end will be far greater than he could ever hope to achieve if he were to set out on his own. To form a more perfect society an infrastructure MUST be designed FROM SCRATCH that will allow human beings to agree as often as possible, thus creating the greatest exponential return towards what all men desire. Now the issue of utopianism must obviously be addressed.
A Utopia is not possible, because progression can always logically go farther, there is no wall (at least foreseeably) where intellect suddenly stops and technology can go no further. Technology never stops, it constantly gets better, improves upon itself. Therefore the argument that working towards a Utopian society is both logically sound and entirely irrelevant to the issue. We do not need a Utopia, we need a better, more functional system. The transition will likely be uncomfortable for many that have grown accustomed to their wars, and famines, and social profiteering, and social manipulation.
But what we need is to isolate the biggest concerns to humanity starting with the most basic, possibly in reference to Maslow's hierarchy, or possible off a new revised hierarchy of human need and find a solution USING THE BEST TECHNOLOGY AVAILABLE that will benefit most if not all of the individuals in that society toward the attainment of those needs.
Such a place could not only be democratic, but could become a streamlined epicenter of democracy such as the world has never seen. Where thanks to the marriage of the understanding that we all inevitably serve ourselves, and that we all serve ourselves best by serving others with the best technological advancements humanity has ever surmised, we can create an intelligent infrastructure where corruption and greed are not only unlikely, they are almost entirely impossible.
What we need is a shift in human consciousness in realizing that war is not a self serving act, but a self defeating act as defined by the "law of increasing returns".
Many philosophers and psycho-analysts alike would agree that human beings act entirely out of self interest
STOP
Behavioral psychologists recognize that normal human behavior sometimes includes a strategic decision to subordinate self-interest to a group and sometimes includes placing the interest of others before our own. Why? There are situations where an individual's efforts aren't enough to get the desired result and human's recognize that combining efforts with others makes the difference. Placing another's interest first could be a simple calculation that doing so may yield an advantage later. But there is also in normal human behavior the recognition of self in others. Although objectivist principles are promoted, behavioral psychologists see pathology when people are unable or unwilling to recognize the valid needs of other people. Examples of this can be found in relationships between two people, or on a mass level when an individual is incapable of empathy toward entire groups of people.
Exactly, a system "designed from scratch that will allow human beings to agree as often as possible", and although I'm all in favor of taking down today's ineffective and inefficient Top 10% Management Group of Business & Government, there's only one way to do it – by fighting bankers as bankers ourselves. Consequently, I have posted a 1-page Summary of the Strategic Legal Policies, Organizational Operating Structures, and Tactical Investment Procedures necessary to do this at:
http://getsatisfaction.com/americanselect/topics/on_strategic_legal_policy_organizational_operational_structures_tactical_investment_procedures
Join
http://finance.groups.yahoo.com/group/StrategicInternationalSystems/
if you want to support a Presidential Candidate at AmericansElect.org in support of the above bank-focused platform.
I agree. A Utopia is a subjective concept, and thus can only be reached on an individual basis anyway. A fair system that helps us collectively progress while honoring individualism at the same time seems more attainable (though still difficult).
I also think that considering the psychological factor in the current system and values will help. I don't think genetic alteration or psychological manipulation are on the table, if you want to maintain integrity (this is part of my personal litmus test of the likely success or failure of an operation - does it maintain its values through every large and small action). I think large scale manipulation of public opinion, which I have thought often on since it seems to be such a gray area - if they choose, even though its by design, it's still free will, right? - I think this approach may fail and is not maintaining integrity of the desire for true representation of individual perspective in a community environment. ... I think it has to be an honest approach. I think that understanding one another, empathy for each other and each unique perspective, may be the key to changing people. Any ideas or thoughts on how that may happen? I really like the Internet as one tool for that :D I've never seen so much of the rest of humanity anywhere else.
As I stated above, a Utopia is impossible because it implies perfection which is not attainable. The argument that working towards a utopia is useless is logically correct but completely irrelevant to what I am saying. it is not impossible to work towards cleaner more efficient systems. I wish I could just remove this damn post all together because these damn grammar errors are butchering my original point. For that I apologize. Do you know how I can remove and repost this?
Don't stress over it. Sorry for the bluntness - you're definitely not the only one who makes mistakes in grammar (or in general - we're all faulty in some way). Stick to your post. I think it has merit, and it's important to represent your true voice. Your perspective is yours alone, and may be an important component in attaining that change you talk about. Don't be silenced. :)
Eek, I didn't see your post on grammar before I posted mine. Boy, what a jerk I was to you. :/ Sorry. I can be very, well, blunt and stompy.
Sounds Utopian. You have not delineated the process other to say that we have to build infrastructures from scratch. There is some guy on this site I just responded to who was talking about creating these structures. Check it out. You might be interested.
i didn't say psychiatry, i said psychology. I know all too well the short-comings of modern medicine (I am a holistic healer) but I also know that nothing is entirely wrong. Your an idiot if you think so. The principle that human beings are self serving creatures has never been dis-proven. In fact our society goes to show just how true this very fact is. I honestly don't even think you understand what I am trying to say. I apologize for the grammatical errors, I would fix them but it won't let me edit the original post. it is not fear mongering when it is true. You have probably eaten a GMO today. You have breathed fumes that serve to shorten your life span. All of these problems are created by a mistaken corporate understanding that "screwing people over is profitable." While it is profitable, it is not the most profitable. In order to create a solution, you must build off of coherent principles. Or are you just an anarchist. If so, study history, anarchy always leads back to "order" and eventually corruption. It only serves to stall the inevitable. What we need is a new solution. A fresh take. I am probably one of the poorest most unfortunate people you have ever met in terms of money so don't go attacking me as if I am one of these 1% persons. I am however, very rich in knowledge of human history and the workings of the human construct. Like it or not, all the old ideas have failed, this is my own original theory (although I wish I could revise the damn post and fix these grammatical issues.) We need more new ideas, you don't like it fine, but I challenge you to make something new, and something better.
Way cooler thing to say, in my opinion. Best response to an opposition voice - what's your idea, then? Let's discuss both. :)
How about we don't go attacking anyone, and instead come up with solutions that include responsibility. If we create a solution, all those we might blame will simply become a part of the 'us'. It's a very negative attitude to take, and will only perpetuate this circular pointing of fingers, with nothing actually getting done.
OK, too many times, overload of the grammarian circuit.
<> For all, quick lesson on grammar (for the love of sanity, and the Oxford standard):
"You're" is the contraction of "You are", like in the sentence, "You're not using that word right, and it may change the meaning of your sentence."
"Your" is the statement of ownership of the second party, as in "That's your perspective, friend, but you're not seeing mine."
Just had to explode that out somewhere, as I've been surrounded by that one annoying little bastard everywhere I turn. Hug an English major today, and tell them you're a new person with your newfound grammatical correctness.</>
Reference example for completeness (there are many): http://robin.hubpages.com/hub/grammar
Bull shit just like the Christians bull shit, none of it has done a thing for the 99% who are suffering and dying while you go along with the evil people in government and make money from your sick and twisted lies that again has done nothing to really help the 99% of the people, your propaganda is all you have to sucker billions into giving you money while they are being killed by your drugs and hate. Psychiatry and Christianity does not work, never has never will, you have had 2,000 years to prove it works and like psychiatry there is no real proof it works. If it did work we would not be in the mess we are in today and things are getting worse and your sake oil sales and selling fear of death has come to an end, along with the other greedy con artist who have been pushing their own brand of death of the 99%.