Forum Post: Polls...forget about them!
Posted 13 years ago on Nov. 25, 2011, 11:47 a.m. EST by Fluke
(47)
from Örebro, Örebro Län
This content is user submitted and not an official statement
Public polls are often used to steer public opinion.
One should always be skeptical about polls.There are many parameters that can have an effect on the poll result. One in particular is the timing of the poll in relation to level of media coverage before the poll is being conducted and more importantly, what type of coverage. Two other things are the framing of the question and how it is asked. Just a short phrase or the tone of the caller can effect the answer of an undetermined mind. The opinion of the asker may well leak to the asked, sometimes on purpose of course.
As we all know the OWS movement is underreported in media and in general, in the media attention it gets, it is not described as a positive thing. Big media corporations have their own political agenda and they follow the events closely and publish to support or suppress ideas/opinions and movements.
Polls can be "rigged". A media organisation can run a more or less subtle campain against a certain topic. Then they go to the polls and Voila! the opinion have swayed in their favour.
Never do we get to now EXACTLY how and why a poll is being done. That´s why we shouldn´t pay much attention to polls. They are often a manipulative instrument in MAKING opinion. How and by whom it is framed and when it is being conducted is very important.
That´s why polls can be regarded as nonsense. And that goes for polls that show an increase in support of the OWS as well.
This is special, it is the beginning of an American revolution and you care about polls?!
... Big media corporations have their own political agenda and they follow the events closely and publish to support or suppress ideas/opinions and movements.
The absolute Truth!
republican always like to backup there B
S with polls funded by them its anther bussiness to the highest bidderPolls are useful for at least one thing: eliminating some of the less-productive proposals that are based on invalid assumptions. There are many, many proposals on this site for actions that assume solidarity from the entire 99%. A lot of people involved in this movement allowed the "we are the 99%" mantra to go to their heads. They envision things that would be possible if 99% of the population were to act in unison. General strikes. Destroying the financial industry through collective refusal to pay debts. Demanding new constitutional amendments, or completely rewriting the Constitution to create new branches of government. The list goes on...
Those ideas obviously don't work if 40% of the 99% have an unfavorable opinion about Occupy, and 30% don't care at all.
Now, that is YOUR opinion and my opinion is that you are completely wrong. You refer to that poll and i´ve just explained why you shouldn´t pay attention to it. Now you also interpret it and use it exactly the way one should could expect from an anti-OWS interest. Which proves my point exactly, thank you very much!
The question was "Is your opinion of the Occupy Wall Street Movement favorable, unfavorable or HAVEN´T YOU HEARD ENOUGH ABOUT IT?" Guess it speaks volumes about you when you say "30% don´t care at all".
Right now 100% lives in the U.S under certain circumstances and at no point were 99% of them involved "in unison" to create this system. Thus no 99% acting in unison is needed to dismantle the system and replace it with another. A strike can be effective even if it is one person alone, it depends. It seems you are one of them making invalid assumptions, as you buy the idea that 99% in solidarity is necessary whilst it is not.
When small groups and even individuals take action and start a movement you can never know where it will end or how much you can achieve. What is realistic is too early to tell.
"Destroying the financial industry through collective refusal to pay debts. Demanding new constitutional amendments, or completely rewriting the Constitution to create new branches of government. The list goes on..."
Well what´s the difference form the current order? As someone said: It is one problem that corrupt politicans and businessmen break the law - another much more serious problem is that they make the laws.
Strawman alert on what you say also.
The exact numbers in the poll may not be accurate but it does give a general idea of public opinion. If anything, I would say 30% may be generous. Of the people I work with and socialize with, very few, if any, have anything good to say about OWS. And these are not 1%ers, they are average working stiffs. I think techjunkie is just trying to point out that calling for solidarity of the 99% when far less than that support OWS is not going to work.
You seem to have totally missed the point of what I said. A lot of people have wasted a lot of time on this forum proposing ideas that are based on the grandiose notion of 99% of the population defeating the 1% through solidarity. That notion is not realistic, if only about 30% of the 99% have a favorable opinion of the movement.
What's with the "straw man" accusation? You're working to position me as a troll for the sin of not completely agreeing with you? Is that how adults build consensus?
No, now you have to explain how and why you interpret the poll as "30% don´t care at all"?
If they still haven't heard enough then IMHO that means that they're not listening.
What's your opinion about the novel IQ84? Favorable? Unfavorable? Haven't heard enough? If we were to take a poll then do you think that the majority of people would fall into the "haven't heard enough" category, about the novel IQ84? If we were to repeat the poll once every few weeks for a year, do you think that the number would change very much? The people responding "haven't heard enough", in that case are really just saying, "The novel IQ84 is irrelevant to me. I haven't heard of it and I just don't care."
Oh? If we are free to interpret it that way, which we are, maybe the people that answered 'unfavorable' did not mean the movement in itself but they had just watched pictures of bloody demonstrators and students getting maced and seeing police in riot gear all over town sometimes abusing peaceful demonstrators and they just want it all to stop? Maybe some of the people answering had The Washington Post laying right infront of them when they called from Quinnipiac University? Who can tell?
You prove my point again.
"A lot of people have wasted a lot of time on this forum proposing ideas that are based on the grandiose notion of 99% of the population defeating the 1% through solidarity"
Judging from how liberal you are in your way of interpreting i bet "a lot of people" could mean two or three here?
"They envision things that would be possible if 99% of the population were to act in unison."
A general strike of the nation would never include 99% of the population in America, no one in his/her right mind believes that. A national general strike could nevertheless make changes to the 100% even if not all participate. That is very important.This is one "strawman" you make, that the movement NEEDS so many to reach consensus. (nothing wrong with wanting and trying to to reach out and make all people participate even if that cannot be achived) If it was nedded then polls would be relevant but it is not.
One could drop the idea of changing society to begin with if the premise is that 99% of the population must agree first! :)
Another strawman is that "they" want to COMPLETELY rewrite the Constitution. Where do you get that from?
Finally. I did not miss your point at all it´s just that if you were truly concerned about this movement and that the people participating are wasting their time, you would have posted something else than that poll the way you did.
Well said.
I have always been suspicious of polls.
Especially since I have never, EVER been asked to participate in one - coupled with that fact that everyone I know tells me the same thing. Who are all of these mystery people answering polls?
Another important thing is the common discrepancy between public and private opinion. We all have opinions we can share publicly and other opinions we prefer to keep more private or even secret.
A person answering in a poll may well give an answer just to satisfy what the person believes is expected from him/her i.e give the opinion of others.