Forum Post: Please help me understand you so you can understand me
Posted 12 years ago on Nov. 23, 2011, 10:53 p.m. EST by 4TheHumanSocietyProject
(504)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement
I really don't get this idea. I believe the government will not work any longer. No matter if you are in charge or if our current government is in charge. Peace can not be obtained by you telling us what to do or the current government telling us what to do. You yourself must make the right decision. I believe that with this group having so many people that it could potentially do great things. However, standing in the streets yelling is ultimately not going to help you get fans or should I say enough fans so to speak. I believe you should be out helping people. Get them to like you through there hearts not through there weakness or anger or even there fear. Stop trying to manipulate the American people through there insecurities and help push to remove fear from the common people. Show the people your concern for there well being. That is what I am trying to do. Eliminate ones insecurities for a ultimate happiness to create a better world. http://www.facebook.com/pages/The-Human-Society-Project/202270743180999
Here is an answer... Maybe not THE answer... but definitely an answer. http://dl.dropbox.com/u/50500650/yourtopia-your%20official%20final%20beginning.pdf
Melanie Bruce, 90%
http://occupythiswiki.org/wiki/OccupyThisWiki:About
Your statements about us are not true or meaningful. Standing and yelling in the streets is important some times. Its as important to do other work, but what you are really doing is insulting what we are doing and then promoting yourself.
Face book is a giant mess, of controlled and censored dumble down, which is manipulated and designed to cage people into a dysfunctional way of relating. So rather than try to sell us on your FB group which is frankly systemically not equipped to actually take on the load of your mission statement, you should be the one coming back to the wiki, learning up, taking notes. Its neat that you are networking, but until you can organize your contributions into something better than FB scrawl, you have nothing to offer really but more chaos.
No. I do not believe that. It does not matter what my approach is. However, I agree with you though I just made it a week ago. I have people helping make it up to your standers. The point I am trying to make is that you care way to much about the way it is promoted. Stop looking at what it looks like and look at what it means. I am asking a very simple request. Take care of yourself emotionally and physically to the fullest extent and do not stray or be in fear of that. I believe if everyone did this that we would move in the direction you seek.
the point that i am trying to make is that i care just enough, about how it is promoted, and i know for a simple fact that FB pages are scattering us, not helping us to get organized. what you "believe" is again a problem, because beliefs are not facts. What it looks like and what it means and what it is; is another distraction node in the net which has no ability to create meaningful order which will scatter the effort instead of facilitate it.
That is not fear, that is not belief, that is a simple understanding of systems and game theory as they apply to this situation.
Your sense of direction is awesome, and it should get itself onto the wiki. because FB is not going to facilitate order, not going to help you actually make anything happen other than find people. Its great for finding people and its horrid as a tool to organize them or ideas or work process.
http://occupythiswiki.org/wiki/Main_Page
I am working on getting it on wiki. You can look at the Facebook page and decide what I am doing is right or wrong. I believe you are looking at what doesn't necessarily matter.You can attempt to self justify your reason all you want. It does not hurt me at all. I will not be discouraged I will not falter. I just simply want you to ask your self if what you are doing is 100 percent right and in no way shape or form wrong. If you feel ultimately it is wrong to yell at any human then why do it? What does it really do for you? I am not trying to take jabs at you. I love you equally as much as anyone else. I care about you even if I don't know you. That is my job as a human being. I would gladly do anything in my power to help you. Would you do the same? I understand that Facebook is not going to lead me to my goal. I made this 7 days ago or so. So please if you believe what I am doing is right then help me. I do appreciate you talking to me. thank you!
i'm not yelling, and i'm not trying to be mean. I'm simply stating the simple truth that FB is a problem, not a solution. That opens up into using the wiki for the same purposes, and using FB to find people but ultimately using a wiki to organize the work.
I am doing all of this out of love also, and its not easy to have to be the parent in all of this and try to get people to see where things that they are doing are self defeating.
Of course i would do anything in my power to help you- thats why there is a wiki for you to use...
well the way I see it no matter what I use my meaning is great. It doesn't matter if you drive a BMW or a Geo metro either way you will eventually get to your destination. I dont need a BMW the Geo metro works just fine.
Check this shit Out! I want you to speak truth to power!. Say it once, say it twice. Say it loud. Say it proud. I'm down with the KTC. The Revolution starts here!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rGaRtqrlGy8&feature=related
http://occupywallst.org/forum/make-a-stand-join-the-clan/
The Revolution starts here! No one can silence the Revolution!
The Key to Truth In Artistry http://algoxy.com/psych/audio/Key-Truth%20In%20Artistry4.mp3
Also, to be quite honest you shouldn't put your faith in any one but yourself. Of course that is my opinion.
I am sorry you feel that way. I don't think it is the person you should be worried about but rather the idea. I ask that you reconsider your thought process and ask your self what I am trying to do rather then worry about the words that describe it.
Wow,..I just watched your video and you are uh.... a special person.
You sound like you're barely literate (not really the "founder of a movement" I'd want to place any faith in)
I admit I could have done better.
No I don't mean your presentation skills, I mean you're presenting an Idea which requires the alteration of the very fabric of human society, when in "the real world" people can't get agree on leaving a burning building without struggle. Baby steps,..like maybe before we can colonize the other planets we devote some time to actual science funding (as a "REAL" deep space program would require decades of basic research before we could even think about a test) not to mention the whole pesky problem of the countries all hating each other, disease, famine, overpopulation, global financial distress, global warming, mosquitos, AIDS, Rap music, whatever attacked your eyebrows, ALL those things need to be dealt with first so, maybe start small.
I believe the very fabric of human society needs to be altered. I have completely changed the way I live. it was hard I admit but it is something that is not impossible. Do not mistake my ultimate goal for the only goal. I am simply saying that moving to other planets is the ultimate goal. Steven hawking says if we do not colonize outer space within the next 100 years it could be catastrophic. However, these baby steps will not happen without people removing the insecurities that control them. All those things you mentioned have been created out of greed. stop the greed within you stop the problem at hand. People abuse food by disposing and eating excessively... that's why we are the most overweight country in the world. global financial distress is simply because the human race strives for material objects rather then helping its fellow man. WHY? because society has a set of ideas to control you based on the leaders(governments) ultimate lust for more power. Global warming has a lot to do with pollution from gas powered vehicles... we have the ability to use electric vehicles however we do not because of a government that strives for more money once again that is greed. mosquito's is kinda irrelevant because the problem is not them but the blood they suck. rap music... well don't be controlled by someone else. You friend In my opinion have lost faith in man. I will not lose faith in man at all. because I know no man is better then me and no man is less then me. They all are capable of the correct choices they just need to see they can do it.
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4TheHumanSocietyProject
I really don't get this idea. I believe the government will not work any longer.END-
Correct. Since we are relatively unprepared to take care of our needs without government and corporations, we need to fix government and then it will control the parasitic corporations.
Of course campaign finance and election reform are needed as well as a return to a sane economic structure. All solid demands-
All that is fine, what really matters is strategy to gain the authority to meet the demands."
Article 5 of the US constitution is our first and last right. It is lawful and peaceful rebellion. It is "alter and abolish" an abusive government.--
When occupy figures this out, and agrees on the obvious. Then, things will get done.
I do not believe that will work. I'm sure there is overweight people in this occupy. I'm sure there is people who drink and smoke cigarettes or abuse other substances to ultimately fill a void within you. How can I put my faith in you people to take on my life demands when you people cant even take care of yourselves. How can you meet my demands when you simply cannot meet the demands of your own body? I am the only person who can meet my demands. I have a very happy life. I work hard for my life. I help the human race out everyday. I make sure my body and mind are in shape and clear of all negative emotions and substances. This is how I achieve happiness. Not by standing in streets yelling at the world because you are to scared to handle your own problems and want more power because you think it will fill your void and make you happy. When I say you I mean occupy.
4TheHumanSocietyProject wrote: When I say you I mean occupy.END---
Okay, I edited it. Is this closer?
I do not believe that will work. I'm sure there is overweight people in this occupy. I'm sure there is people who drink and smoke cigarettes or abuse other substances to ultimately fill a void within occupy. How can I put my faith in occupy people to take on my life demands when occupy people cant even take care of yourselves. How can you meet my demands when occupy simply cannot meet the demands of occupys body? I am the only person who can meet my demands. I have a very happy life. I work hard for my life. I help the human race out everyday. I make sure my body and mind are in shape and clear of all negative emotions and substances. This is how I achieve happiness. Not by standing in streets yelling at the world because occupy are to scared to handle occupys own problems and want more power because you think it will fill your void and make occupy happy.
I thnk I understand your position. I agree. Occupy needs to think about needs more and start working on seeing the people gain the authority they need to see political demands and needs met.
I believe they should take there 10000 people and clean up the streets. Do not protest for that will only cause anger. HELP to the point where the entire country sees occupy helping the world and wants them. Do not try to force your power on anyone. You must have the people accept you to gain understanding of what really matters. make men want to help men by simply helping all men. that is what we do at http://www.facebook.com/pages/The-Human-Society-Project/202270743180999
What about the infiltrated congress? Who will deal with that? Only Article 5 has the authority.
Article V The Congress, whenever two thirds of both Houses shall deem it necessary, shall propose Amendments to this Constitution, or, on the Application of the Legislatures of two thirds of the several States, shall call a Convention for proposing Amendments, which, in either Case, shall be valid to all Intents and Purposes, as Part of this Constitution, when ratified by the Legislatures of three fourths of the several States or by Conventions in three fourths thereof, as the one or the other Mode of Ratification may be proposed by the Congress; Provided that no Amendment which may be made prior to the Year One thousand eight hundred and eight shall in any Manner affect the first and fourth Clauses in the Ninth Section of the first Article; and that no State, without its Consent, shall be deprived of its equal Suffrage in the Senate.
well my friend I believe the government does not make us we make us you get 70 percent of the country on your side it will no longer matter what that document says. Occupy has the right idea I just think they are trying to force there way in. I think that this violent way of going about it is only going to bring more violence. you can yell and scream nasty things all you want but in the end you are only hurting yourself.
I don't know what you mean by "this violent way of going about it". OWS is not about violence. It is about Civil Disobedience and 1st Amendment assembly for the "redress of grievances".
But I understand your overall point... I think. It sounds like what Gandhi said... "Be the change you want to see in the world."
I kind of agree with the idea that most change happens on a very small, day-to-day, person-to-person level.
But I also think that societies and civilizations must engage in these public "battles" (discussions, political fights etc.). We need to ask the basic questions of what is Good, what is Fair, what is Justice... how to we organize power and resources.
Gandhi seemed to do both. He "purified" himself but also engaged in Civil Disobedience. You are right. "We"-- the people of OWS-- are not pure! I don't even pretend to be. Yes I smoke and drink, occasionally. But I also try to eat fresh, local food, avoid processed food and meat, and I ride my bike instead of driving. And I work as a teacher trying to "help" out humanity. Not perfect, but not terrible.
Thank you for what you try to do every day and thank you for engaging the conversation about OWS.
Why do you smoke and drink? I am a recovering drug addict. I used to shoot up heroin. I have decided that I am not going to take the "easy way out" I am going to try my hardest to be pure. I do not eat red meat I do not use mind altering substances from cigarettes to caffeine. I only drink water and eat healthy. I work out everyday and participate in playful sports. I am not saying I am perfect I am simply saying if I can do it anyone can. Why do something you know is bad. Please don't say it is cause you are a weak person because you are not. You could stop right here right now if you wanted to. I believe we should engage in these battles but not in this manner. They are just gonna tear gas you until you hurt someone then they are going to arrest you and label you as terrorist. I really do appreciate you. You are a very good person. thanks for your time.
you are super sweet, so thank you.
mostly I smoke pot. I enjoy it. it relaxes me and makes me think fun thoughts and brightens my mood. it has it's down sides though, for sure.
good job getting off of heroine. that stuff will kill you! stay strong.
as for protesting... like I said, I believe strongly in our American tradition and in the 1st Amendment and in Civil Disobedience as articulated by Henry David Thoreau (have you read any of his writings? big on nature and on living a clean and simple life) and practiced successfully by Dr. King and all the Civil Rights protestors.
I'm not going to hurt anyone. I will insist on being arrested then I will have my day in court (if it comes to that). Yes... "they" will "label" all of us. Don't believe the hype! The Revolution will Not be televised.
Take care.
I agree pot was my crutch for a long time. Pot just prevented me from reaching my full potential. I will look into it. I just don't want to see such emotion in the right direction be wasted. I have my beliefs and you have yours. I just hope you are doing the best you possibly can. Nothing less is acceptable but only you can know that.
heart of gold. thanks again. Stay engaged.
Would you like to help? I have to ask because I wont conceal things. You can say no I wont get upset with you.
what do you have in mind?
well of course work on yourself internally. think about what you don't need and what you do need. Discipline your mind and body to strive to remove all insecurities. Please only do this if you feel it is right.. then of course I would ask that you try to help your fellow man as much as possible. Kinda like Jim Careys yes man. Please don't miss the point like he did though lol. I believe this is the only way we can help. One person at a time. It may not be the direct quick results you search for but nothing in life should be quick and easy for it would be lame. Also I would ask that you like the human society project to get the word that you can be free from the chains of insecurities and fear that drive us in the wrong direction . I thank you for your time and concern. http://www.facebook.com/pages/The-Human-Society-Project/202270743180999
thanks for the encouragement.
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Gee, that is what the constitution says, well it says 75% of the states and congress doesn't matter.-
Congress has been violating the constitution for 100 years and refusing to call a convention. I guess they are definintely screaming and yelling in the wrong place. If they were screaming and yelling in the right place, it might help us all.
Humans have been violating humans since the dawn of time. When will that stop? you say never? I say you are a quitter.
4TheHumanSocietyProject wrote: When will that stop? you say never?END-
Hmmmm, hard to know what to cogent here. The nwo has promoted the uses of "cognitive distortions", and then you have not acknowledged that I reccomend that IF screaming and yelling is done, direct it towards congress while I do not say "never". Lots of unrelated inconsistencies here.
Meanwhile, I should help you in recognizing cognitive distortions and how you learned them. The nwo made semiotics an acdaemic degree so those people learning to manipulate the unconscious mind with symbols could be optimized in their skills then usd to exploit desires/wants and condition the populations to respond to and use cognitive distortions as if they were normal and acceptable.
Sitcomes, soap operas, gameshows, reality shows were used to teach to nearly 2 generations of Americans that had televisions.
Here is a list created by cognitive therapists which is used to treat the patient by slowing pointing out how the assumptions created by implimenting the distortions in actual attempts at reasoning cause discomfort, frustration and agitation or dissatisfaction and other issues.
COGNITIVE DISTORTIONS
All or nothing thinking: Things are placed in black or white categories. If things are less than perfect self is viewed as failure.
Over generalization: Single event is viewed as continuous failure.
Mental filter: Details in life (positive or negative) are amplified in importance while opposite is rejected.
Minimizing: Perceiving one or opposite experiences (positive or negative) as absolute and maintaining singularity of belief to one or the other.
Fortune Telling: Based on previous 5 distortions, anticipation of negative or positive outcome of situations is established
Catastrophizing: Exaggerated importance of self's failures and others successes.
Emotional reasoning: One feels as though emotional state IS reality of situation. ie.
"Should" statements: Self imposed rules about behavior creating guilt at self inability to adhere and anger at others in their inability to conform to self's rules.
I will say this. I do not believe screaming and yelling will do anything as I believe it is a form of emotional violence. In my point of view physical violence is not the problem its more emotional and mental violence. They manipulate us as a society to believe that we must get things we don't need to validate ones self.
what you said to be honest I do not understand at this time. I will look into it later. I got thanksgiving going on so I don't have the time at this moment to research it. If you would please bare with me i will get you your response. I thank you for your time. Please do not get discouraged I will be back I promise.
I agree that screaming and yelling are a form of emotional violence. Laws are designed to limit that. Laws have been usurped and such, if pointed out supresses treason. Now screaming and yelling are okay because they suppress treason and prevent corporations from exploiting/infiltrating government.-----
Nobody pointed out a violation of law to authority creating a problem for the public for the officials to respond to, in writing, prior to screaming and yelling. Making the screaming and yelling ineffective at anything except alienating some people.------
Notice of a problem and the failure to uphold a law to an official whose operating regulations under law relate to the problem need to be notified in writing 45 days prior to screaming and yelling. Period, waste of time any other way if folks are prone to screaming and yelling:) -
I don't care what the law is. Its simple screaming and yelling is violence not because a piece of paper says it is, simply put we know it is. You scream and yell because you are angry, you let your emotions control you.
Oh, well . . . this is not about you, this is about all the Americans out there watching and what they think and whether or not they will support the change and method of change that is proposed.-----
People will scream and yell. If I can use that for their benefit and mine, how is not using it better?
would you kill someone for your benefit? It does not matter how much it is wrong, it still is wrong.
Well since you continue to miss the point. I say we agree to disagree. Everyone needs to fix there selves before they can fix the government. You are alive today... So I am sure your "needs" have been met till now. Stop with this foolish argument.
Hmmmm, imposition of, "Emotional reasoning: One feels as though emotional state IS reality of situation. ie." and leads no where.
Change, meeting needs. That is what matters. What will work to stop corporate control over politics? Where is the authority going to come from?