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Forum Post: Please give me a definitive answer.

Posted 13 years ago on Oct. 16, 2011, 11:12 p.m. EST by Chany (20)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

I cannot find one absolute statement about OWS. It seems it is just a bunch of people loosely connected by a vague political ideal. Don't get me wrong, I actually like some of the ideas, but please give me an answer to what you guys are doing. I want a definite link answer, a true official statement, not a bunch of people in the comments box giving their political views.

35 Comments

35 Comments


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[-] 2 points by Chany (20) 13 years ago

If it is a call to arms, I still don't understand why they are actively protesting in the streets. Could someone answer?

[-] 2 points by FuManchu (619) 13 years ago

You have to ask OWS. Not this forum.

[-] 1 points by Chany (20) 13 years ago

Where can I ask?

[-] 2 points by Eli11 (10) 13 years ago

See how the process works here: http://nycga.cc/ There is no definitive statement, it's consensus building and inclusive of all voices! Join us and add yours! :)

[-] 1 points by Chany (20) 13 years ago

bump.

[-] 1 points by SanityScribe (452) 13 years ago

The group that organized this..Adbusters is from Canada. They are openly anti-capitalists. They started OWS.

http://www.adbusters.org/about/adbusters

http://activistcash.com/organization_overview.cfm/o/36-adbusters

However I see that the movement has attracted more then the anti-capitalists crowd. I'm not sure they counted on that. Now the people are taking notice of the movement. I am not surprised to see other political types try and step in. I think most PEOPLE involved in this movement will recognize that when they unleash that real agenda. I have witnessed the awakening of many people, who came here for information.

[-] 1 points by Chany (20) 13 years ago

Bump.

[-] 1 points by Chany (20) 13 years ago

Let me get this straight. The protests are more of a call to arms, like the Philadelphia convention in 1776, than a statement, like the Declaration of Independence?

[-] 1 points by tr289 (916) from Chicago, IL 13 years ago

The elite have had 200 + years to figure out how to enslave the people and corrupt the system. We have had less then 30 day's to figure out how to fix it. We don't have all the answers yet... But we will. =)

[-] 1 points by OurTimes2011 (377) from Arlington, VA 13 years ago

This is different from anything you may be used to. It is different, far more powerful. 951 cities in 27 days. That is why you are asking, why you are interested. It may be a little uncomfortable for you, but that's the way it is.

You want an answer, watch: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-CjrZNi49bE&feature=related

and

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hYIC0eZYEtI&feature=related

There is no "official statement."

[-] 1 points by ribis (240) 13 years ago

If you really want to get a clue about origins and motives, but can't make it to a General Assembly, cracking a book is probably your best bet. For instance, Howard Zinn gives a pretty good explanation of the sentiment in A People's History of the United States:

There is no system of control with more openings, apertures, lee-ways, flexibilities, rewards for the chosen, winning tickets in lotteries. There is none that disperses its controls more complexly through the voting system, the work situation, the church, the family, the school, the mass media- none more successful in mollifying opposition with reforms, isolating people from one another, creating patriotic loyalty...

How skillful to tax the middle class to pay for the relief of the poor, building resentment on top of humiliation! How adroit to bus poor black youngsters into poor white neighborhoods, in a violent exchange of impoverished schools, while the schools of the rich remain untouched and the wealth of the nation, doled out carefully where children need free milk, is drained for billion-dollar aircraft carriers. How ingenious to meet the demands of blacks and women for equality by giving them small special benefits, and setting them in competition with everyone else for jobs made scarce by an irrational, wasteful system. How wise to turn the fear and anger of the majority toward a class of criminals bred-by economic inequity-faster than they can be put away, deflecting attention from the huge thefts of national resources carried out within the law by men in executive offices...

[Opposing this] would require combining the energy of all previous movements in American history-of labor insurgents, black rebels, Native Americans, women, young people-along with the new energy of an angry middle class. People would need to begin to transform their immediate environments-the workplace, the family, the school, the community-by a series of struggles against absentee authority, to give control of these places to the people who live and work there.

These struggles would involve all the tactics used at various times in the past by people's movements: demonstrations, marches, civil disobedience; strikes and boycotts and general strikes; direct action to redistribute wealth, to reconstruct institutions, to revamp relationships; creating-in music, literature, drama, all the arts, and all the areas of work and play in everyday life-a new culture of sharing, of respect, a new joy in the collaboration of people to help themselves and one another...

The prospect is for times of turmoil, struggle, but also inspiration. There is a chance that such a movement could succeed in doing what the system itself has never done-bring about great change with little violence. This is possible because the more of the 99 percent that begin to see themselves as sharing needs, the more the guards and the prisoners see their common interest, the more the Establishment becomes isolated, ineffectual. The elite's weapons, money, control of information would be useless in the face of a determined population. The servants of the system would refuse to work to continue the old, deadly order, and would begin using their time, their space-the very things given them by the system to keep them quiet-to dismantle that system while creating a new one.

http://www.historyisaweapon.com/defcon1/zinncomrev24.html

This is not a rally for one cause. There's no one bill that, if passed, would satisfy OWS, no single person that OWS opposes, no one bullet point that some publicist can wave about in order to represent OWS. We're looking for a new way out, one that isn't paved with blood, but with mutual goodwill. It is, at once, incredibly simple and unfathomably complex. Nevertheless, we feel we have no choice but to try.

[-] 1 points by gnomunny (6819) from St Louis, MO 13 years ago

That's inspiring.

[-] 1 points by IndyGuy (81) 13 years ago

Some of the ideas are good.

It is increasingly looking more like a party type environment for young college age kids. Almost like it is the "cool" thing to do.

[-] 1 points by Chany (20) 13 years ago

Let me get this straight: the protesters are currently in the phase of deciding what their wants and demands are?

[-] 1 points by looselyhuman (3117) 13 years ago

I think the sad truth is that various factions are working at cross-purposes. All we share is a general discontent, and very different ideas as to causes and solutions.

[-] 1 points by gnomunny (6819) from St Louis, MO 13 years ago

From what I can tell, they've got a proposal over on https://sites.google.com/site/the99percentdeclaration/ that's a work in progress document they plan on submitting next spring. Hope that helps.

[-] 2 points by Chany (20) 13 years ago

Next spring? Then why are they protesting now? A bunch of angry people without a definite goal or cause is not a movement, it's just a bunch of angry people. I'm not trying to down anyone, just saying.

[-] 1 points by gnomunny (6819) from St Louis, MO 13 years ago

I'm assuming because it takes time to hash out the details and come to a definite consensus. If you go to that link and scroll to the bottom and click on "Who we are" it gives some insight. It'll take till spring to get done what they need to do.

[-] 1 points by Eli11 (10) 13 years ago

In a world of soundbites and talking heads it seems some have forgotten what democracy really is! It is a process where all voices are heard! It is slow and sometimes a bit messy, but it works! See how it is done here: http://nycga.cc/

[-] 1 points by UnemployedLaw (68) 13 years ago

Economic injustice: lack of opportunity and access, though people are financially crippled with excessive student loan debt.

(Fraud) Foreclosures (banks made 100 percent of profit by securitizing the notes, got bailed out, and the insurers of those securities were bailout, yet the regular homeowner still has to pay the bailout note).

[-] 1 points by Chany (20) 13 years ago

Yeah, I don't get the point of the movement. What is your official statement on what you guys are protesting for?

[-] 1 points by Meeky (186) from Los Angeles, CA 13 years ago

Well some are jobless and those that have jobs are pretty much crap jobs.

Some graduated with a profitable degree but there is little job opportunity for them.

[-] 1 points by ultralibian (3) 13 years ago

It seems to me you don't get the whole point of the movement.

[-] 1 points by highmoralitywins (28) 13 years ago

no, maybe not, inform us please, i too have been researching and asking on forums what the official ows idea is, i get everything from "we're against corporate influence on washington" which i agree with to "socialism", "communist revolution", "redistribution of wealth" which i don't agree with to ideas that are just angry, uneducated, propaganda-ridden, and even worse things like "anarchy will rule" or "kill the jews"....so, no, people don't get the FULL POINT AND GOALS OF THE MOVEMENT. the tea party looks so reassuring after some of this. even though they were immediately hated on by everyone, they were organized and had GOALS

[-] 1 points by VeteransVoice (7) 13 years ago

Absolutely a justifiable question.

You might be better off asking people what they're against rather than what they're for here. My opinion is that most people here are against the tyrannical forces at play in every aspect of their lives. From federal bailouts to uncontested warmongering to the unlawful usage of deadly force against Americans that are perceived as a threat. That list is infinite my friend. But, it can be simply summed up as the 1% factor, which is an homage to those very few soulless creatures that devour human decency and discredit the principles that you and I (we) personally stand for. They might be rich, powerful or even both. Regardless they are tyrants, and they should be stood up against accordingly. Therefore, there can be no definitive answer.

[-] 1 points by highmoralitywins (28) 13 years ago

ok, i understand what ows is against, i'm against alot of things, and i know from videos that ows nyc votes for things, but i feel the most important thing is WHERE DOES OWS WANT TO MOVE FORWARD TO. that, friend is the ultimate factor in what it really means, if it will last or die down, and if i can consciously support it or not, for example: "the system is corrupt, we demand socialism, handouts, peoples heads on stakes" no, i can't consciously support those, " the system is corrupt, lets get selfless businessmen in office, change campaign regulations, change some corporation rights, and manage the peoples money better while having true democratic republic, smaller government so that people dont rely on gov assistance and can survive on their own, by themselves" then i'll support the movement. i am a young businessman owning my own business and i know from trial and error that if you have no plan with goals, you can talk all you want but in the end you have nothing to do but stop, and find something that does work..which is advice that i believe washington could use actually hehe

[-] 1 points by highmoralitywins (28) 13 years ago

the national general assembly and petition for redress of grievences. now that is something

[-] 1 points by VeteransVoice (7) 13 years ago

Agreed.

It will be interesting to see what happens over the winter with OWS. Regardless, you have to admire the fact that they've been able to rally citizens from 1,500 cities around the globe to protest against something. What that "something" is...well, is debatable. At the least, it's brought you and Chany here.

The foreseeable problem is when (or if) OWS determines their mission, vision and values. At that point, they will be labeled and exploited. Then, they will probably be forced to align with a political party, and will lose their global appeal. This is an unprecedented global movement. I hate to be cliche, but it's bigger than the U.S. and political parties at this point.

[-] 1 points by ultralibian (3) 13 years ago

I would suggest you go to Liberty Plaza or a local Occupy meeting because it's the only way you will discover the truth.

[-] 1 points by highmoralitywins (28) 13 years ago

you can't explain? there is a problem and a goal, if you know it state it, if not, then i suppose you don't know either

[-] 1 points by Chany (20) 13 years ago

Thank you!

[-] 0 points by ItsOnlyMe (43) 13 years ago

A bunch of dopes with nothing better to do with their time. That's OWS in a nutshell.

[-] 0 points by atki4564 (1259) from Lake Placid, FL 13 years ago

Many more people will come to your side when you are proactive (for “new” Business & Government solutions), instead of reactive (against “old” Business & Government solutions), which is why what we most immediately need is a comprehensive “new” strategy that implements all our various socioeconomic demands at the same time, regardless of party, and although I'm all in favor of taking down today's ineffective and inefficient Top 10% Management System of Business & Government, there's only one way to do it – by fighting bankers as bankers ourselves; that is, using a Focused Direct Democracy organized according to our current Occupations & Generations. Consequently, I have posted a 1-page Summary of the Strategically Weighted Policies, Organizational Operating Structures, and Tactical Investment Procedures necessary to do this at:

http://getsatisfaction.com/americanselect/topics/on_strategic_legal_policy_organizational_operational_structures_tactical_investment_procedures

Join

http://finance.groups.yahoo.com/group/StrategicInternationalSystems/

because we need 100,000 “support clicks” at AmericansElect.org to support a Presidential Candidate -- such as any given political opportunist you'd like to draft -- in support of the above bank-focused platform.

Most importantly, remember, as cited in the first link, that as Bank Owner-Voters in your 1 of 48 "new" Business Investment Groups (or "new" Congressional Committees) you become the "new" Congress replacing the "old" Congress according to your current Occupation & Generation, called a Focused Direct Democracy.

Therefore, any Candidate (or Leader) therein, regardless of party, is a straw man, a puppet, just like today, for it's the STRATEGY – the sequence of steps – that the people organize themselves under, in Military Internet Formation of their Individual Purchasing & Group Investment Power, that's important. In this, sequence is key to doubling your income from Bank Interest Income.

Why? Because there are Natural Social Laws – in mathematical sequence – that are just like Natural Physical Laws, such as the Law of Gravity. You must follow those Natural Social Laws or the result will be Injustice, War, etc.

The FIRST step in Natural Social Law is to CONTROL the Banks as Bank Owner-Voters. If you do not, you will inevitably be UNJUSTLY EXPLOITED by the Top 10% Management Group of Business & Government who have a Legitimate Profit Motive, just like you, to do so.

Consequently, you have no choice but to become Candidates (or Leaders) yourselves as Bank Owner-Voters according to your current Occupation & Generation.

So please JOIN the 2nd link so we can make our support clicks at AmericansElect.org when called for, at exactly the right time, by an e-mail from that group, in support of the above the bank-focused platform. If so, then you will see and feel how your goals can be accomplished within the above strategy as a “new” Candidate (or Leader) of your current Occupation & Generation.