Forum Post: Please Argue For or Against...
Posted 13 years ago on Oct. 24, 2011, 10:44 p.m. EST by gibsone76m
(298)
from Washington, NJ
This content is user submitted and not an official statement
Several people from the Walton(Wal-Mart) family are in the top 25 on the billionaires list.
The 99% have enabled Wal Mart by shopping in their stores.
I know as a poor college student, I would shop there to save money. Am I guilty?
The State Is the 1 Percent Mises Daily: Monday, October 24, 2011 by Llewellyn H. Rockwell Jr.
" In fact, that 1 percent includes some of the smartest, most innovative people in the country — the people who invent, market, and distribute material blessings to the whole population. But there is another 1 percent out there…"
The top 1% that does nothing the elite with the trust funds the ones that are share holders of the federal reserve
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In the end, we end up with about 3 million people who constitute what is commonly called the state. For short, we can just call these people the 1 percent.
The 1 percent do not generate any wealth of their own. Everything they have they get by taking from others under the cover of law. They live at our expense. Without us, the state as an institution would die.
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They are right that society is rife with conflicts, and that the contest is wildly lopsided. It is indeed the 99 percent versus the 1 percent. They're just wrong about the identity of the enemy
Those who do live parasitically off the population and exploit the 99 percent. Moreover, there is a long intellectual tradition, dating back to the late Middle Ages, that draws attention to the strange reality that a tiny minority lives off the productive labor of the overwhelming majority.
Not to plug, but Target always gives a percentage to the community in which their store is located. It is a good policy. They are also much better than Wallymart for other companies to deal with.
Walmart does as well. There is good and bad of Walmart. They do employ people and provide products at good prices, but sometimes they drive small business out. Here in NJ we have a huge market so Walmart is typically good, but I can see in small rural areas small business being hurt. Also Walmart often has used eminent domain to acquire property.
Walmart treats their employees like shit.
Then why do they work there? Walmart is one of the few companies that offer benefits for part-time work. In comparison to most big companies, Walmart's benefits are not that bad.
They just cut them unfortunately. I'm not a Walmart hater. I shop there, but they really did just cut part time health for new employees and higher premiums for full time.
Yes, I'm aware of that. Even with the cuts there are not that many companies that offer benefits to part time employees. I'm neither a Walmart hater, nor a Walmart lover. I see both the good and the evil of Walmart.
of late they have been doing a lot better.
ramen and tomato soup feeds me to this day
Yes, you're guilty of being a simpleminded jerk.
Wall mart is nice and cheap but i went to a super wall mart and wow was blowing away wish they sold only american made stuff
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I'm speaking of the state, which even today is made up of a tiny sliver of the population but is the direct cause of all the impoverishing wars, inflation, taxes, regimentation, and social conflict. This 1 percent is the direct cause of the violence, the censorship, the unemployment, and vast amounts of poverty, too.
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I'm speaking of the state, which even today is made up of a tiny sliver of the population but is the direct cause of all the impoverishing wars, inflation, taxes, regimentation, and social conflict. This 1 percent is the direct cause of the violence, the censorship, the unemployment, and vast amounts of poverty, too.
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I'm speaking of the state, which even today is made up of a tiny sliver of the population but is the direct cause of all the impoverishing wars, inflation, taxes, regimentation, and social conflict. This 1 percent is the direct cause of the violence, the censorship, the unemployment, and vast amounts of poverty, too.
Look at the numbers, rounding from latest data. The US population is 307 million. There are about 20 million government employees at all levels, which makes 6.5 percent. But 6.2 million of these people are public-school teachers, whom I think we can say are not really the ruling elite. That takes us down to 4.4 percent.
so whats your point
Look at the numbers, rounding from latest data. The US population is 307 million. There are about 20 million government employees at all levels, which makes 6.5 percent. But 6.2 million of these people are public-school teachers, whom I think we can say are not really the ruling elite. That takes us down to 4.4 percent.
Look at the numbers, rounding from latest data. The US population is 307 million. There are about 20 million government employees at all levels, which makes 6.5 percent. But 6.2 million of these people are public-school teachers, whom I think we can say are not really the ruling elite. That takes us down to 4.4 percent.
Look at the numbers, rounding from latest data. The US population is 307 million. There are about 20 million government employees at all levels, which makes 6.5 percent. But 6.2 million of these people are public-school teachers, whom I think we can say are not really the ruling elite. That takes us down to 4.4 percent.
I'm speaking of the state, which even today is made up of a tiny sliver of the population but is the direct cause of all the impoverishing wars, inflation, taxes, regimentation, and social conflict. This 1 percent is the direct cause of the violence, the censorship, the unemployment, and vast amounts of poverty, too.
I'm speaking of the state, which even today is made up of a tiny sliver of the population but is the direct cause of all the impoverishing wars, inflation, taxes, regimentation, and social conflict. This 1 percent is the direct cause of the violence, the censorship, the unemployment, and vast amounts of poverty, too.
I'm speaking of the state, which even today is made up of a tiny sliver of the population but is the direct cause of all the impoverishing wars, inflation, taxes, regimentation, and social conflict. This 1 percent is the direct cause of the violence, the censorship, the unemployment, and vast amounts of poverty, too.
Not to plug, but Target always gives a percentage to the community in which their store is located. It is a good policy. They are also much better than Wallymart for other companies to deal with.
Nope not at all
the 1% have given the 99% no other option. When they started they had prices that closed down main st.
look at the history of wall mart. they started out POOR with 1 shop. same with starbucks...the ceo grew up in the projects.
start accepting some responsibility, it is the only way this movement will be successful
their prices aren't really any better than anywhere else
that is just not true
their grocery prices are not competitive
shop around
well factor in transportation costs for the majority of wal mart's clientele who are not willing to drive too far to go shopping
I live in the city but I can see were that might be an issue rurally
If you were the face of the protest, it would look bad, so you have to keep up appears. One person does make a bit of different. A boycott of Walmart is not a winning strategy.
Much better is supporting workers rights (domestically and internationally) and a living wage, and shop were you want. If you conscience is brothering you, take some of your savings and donate it to the cause.
Yes you are. I'm poor and I've never spent a penny in Wal-Mart. Wal-Mart has succeeded in putting countless small business owners out of business. Some studies have shown that for every dollar Wal-Mart injects into local economies, it actually costs those communities a dollar fifty. They treat and pay their workers like shit. They get free labor that fattens their bottom line. Here's how the free labor works: Your workday's over. You go clock out. The manager walks up and asks you to do something small, like sweep an aisle or two. Hey, it will only take you five or ten minutes. You don't want to? Then you're not a "team player." You know how it is in the workforce nowadays, if you're not a team player you're not going to be there very long. So you do it, thinking it's only five minutes, what the hell. True, until you think about the tens of thousands of Wal-Mart employees across the country being asked to do the same. Ten minutes times however many workers equals a surprising amount of money. By the way, even when I wasn't poor I didn't shop there for those very reasons.
if people stopped shopping there, it would go away. its that simple.
Why doesn't it happen? the consumer is greedy too
True, I've been saying that periodically while I've been here. In fact, gib, I think I agreed to that in a comment to you yesterday. It's down the page, closer to the bottom ;-)
greedy? or flat broke trying to feed their families. it's a luxury to be able to boycott Walmart. a luxury the truly poor don't have.
then thank wal mart for feeding the poor and stop complaining
what an odd thing to say. you've posted all over this thread that people are too greedy to pay a little extra for frozen peas. you're the one complaining.
im just tired people taking the "holier than thou" viewpoint. I admit i did it to save money. I am thankful for wal-mart. But i cant stand people who hate on wal mart for being a big evil corporation, then jump onto the other side of the fence and say they are great for making food more affordable.
There was a South Park episode a while back about the Heart of Walmart. The moral was that you can destroy Walmart, but some other store will just end up filling the need as long as we continue to be in this free-market, globalized paradigm. The system needs to change. Just like our political system. Money will continue to corrupt politics until we change the system. The politicians and the lobbyists are just following the current rules of the game. The system needs to change.
so just because people are irresponsible in their shopping habits we should limit business activities? im sure china and russia would love to hear that
I'm not sure where you are getting that from, certainly not from my post. Must be the water up there in Morris County.
are you sure you guys are poor? dissin' people forced to shop at Walmart seems counter to caring about the poor. walmart's cheap. poor people don't have the money to make statements.
then thank wal mart for feeding the poor and stop complaining about corporate greed
dear retard. I am not part of OWS. but I am also not on whatever creepy side you're on.
im on the side of rational people. I am against people who hate on wal mart but then say they are great for making food more affordable
I'm on the side of the truly suffering people on the planet who are starving, dying, live without electricity and running water. this shit's a farce. poor little Americans.
Just keep your eyes wide open. Shop AT&T Walmart, but, fight the good fight whenever possible.
Not guilty. It's capitalism. Like it or not. It is not perfect. There is no perfect.
Some people, I understand, have a problem with Wal-mart because so much of the product is made in China. Thats the global world we live in. And our capitalism at work. There is a bigger issue with China, which is trade policy though. But we won't solve that here, as that requires cooperation and negotiation with other countries.
I really have no problem with the anyone, the Waltons included, being wealthy. I just want the wealthy and BIG corporations to keep their money out of politics. They are corrupting the government with it.
definitely fair...i agree
I know as a poor college student, I would shop there to save money. Am I guilty?
No, just a reality.
so stop ripping on the big corporations if you are not willing to pay an extra dollar for your frozen pizza (not you personally)
Not ripping on corps...you mistake my position. People LOVE walmart, just too ignorant to realize their position in the market place....again, OWS wants cake and brownies too,,,,,get my drift.....
yeah i totally agree...they take no responsibility at all
No. You are guilty of nothing.
The only thing you are guilty of is wondering should you feel guilty.
WalMart provides goods to people at low prices. If people don't like WalMart, they don't have to shop there.
Could not agree more
But there is another 1 percent out there, those who do live parasitically off the population and exploit the 99 percent. Moreover, there is a long intellectual tradition, dating back to the late Middle Ages, that draws attention to the strange reality that a tiny minority lives off the productive labor of the overwhelming majority.
But there is another 1 percent out there, those who do live parasitically off the population and exploit the 99 percent. Moreover, there is a long intellectual tradition, dating back to the late Middle Ages, that draws attention to the strange reality that a tiny minority lives off the productive labor of the overwhelming majority.
Partially. We can improve capitalism through smart regulations. Wal-Mart is the #1 top of the fortune companies in the US. I think they started by competing well with other companies, but after time they have tried to kill their competion. What they are doing is mostly legal, but they are doing it in the most ruthless way. Capitalism can be ruthless, but it can also be destructive if left unregulated. It would be better for the people of the US if Wal-Mart were split up by the federal government. It would also be best if many corporate practices of Wal-Mart were regulated.
The hard part is keeping the regulations as being "smart". Most often regulating bodies are formed with the best of intentions, but they are soon taken over by the biggest of the corporations and are used to maintain monopoly and increase the cost of small start-ups from entering the same fields. Breaking up Walmart would be a bad idea at this time. The business they are in has been known to be ruthless and very competitive. Many similar businesses have come and gone.
It's not about taking down Walmart or any other corporation. It's about putting them in their place. So do what I do. Take the money you save there and put it into the movement.
that is a lame excuse...in the end you are still supporting their business. why add another step? just don't shop there...
Why should I pay more to somebody else I know about as well as I know Walmart, just because they are not Walmart? Does OWS have a supermarket?
If you're protesting against them, you're a hypocrite by shopping there and you invalidate your movement.
im not. im admitting i shopped there to pay lower prices, but why am i the only one to admit that? wal mart started out as 1 store they didn't become what they are overnight. the consumer elevated them to their post.
What option have you got? When all of the food is made from 4 companies, all of the products are made in China, all of the media is Republican and Democrat... You just follow the carrot and don't pay attention to the guy behind the curtain.
wal mart started out as 1 small town store
And don't give me that bs...there are plenty of local stores, you just want to pay the lower prices. and now yes, because you wanted to pay 1.50 in stead of 2.55 for a frozen pizza, now there are only 4 stores. talk about greed.
start taking some responsibility for the actions of the consumer, i do it, im admitting it, i don't get why people are so afraid to admit that (oh right because then it would expose the truth)
Personally I haven't ever complained about a Wal Mart in my life. Every time I've needed to return something, they've taken it back. Every time I've needed 2 gallons of milk and a gallon of motor oil and a $5 movie and some construction paper for my kids school project... they've had it. I've read articles about how they treat their employees, but to that I say, go work at Kmart if you don't like it.
I admit I shop there, when I'm near one. There's no shame in taking advantage of a huge cheap store that has everything. Can you really blame a store to expand their wares? When everyone wants what you have, they come and buy from you. And if they do that enough, you grow and grow and grow into the biggest company in the world. And then they hate you for it.
Grow up.
wow you are totally missing my point. I agree with wall mart i think its a great success story. I just think its crazy because OWS is so against big corporations like wal mart that are also involved in politics, yet they are the ones that allowed wal mart to get so big.
It isn't about success-- it's about becoming disgustingly rich while paying and treating employees like shit, and failing to support our own (and their own) manufacturing base as they hurt the trade deficit to increase their personal wealth, not to mention, preventing unionization that might help employees lives be a little better. Plus, they don't pay their taxes...
Not to sound inhumane, but who is to say how an employer should treat their employees. If you don't like how you are being treated you probably should not be working there.
Personally I treat employees like gods, because I know thats where the product comes from and Im not a jerk, but do you get my point?
Well, you will probably never be rubbing shoulders with the 1% but that is a testament to your character. Caving in to a bad situation, or walking away from it, does nothing to make the world better.
What? Im a small business owner and I am part of the so called "1%" as OWSers define it...i have created jobs, i treat my employees extremely well. who are you to criticize me?
I'm guessing you are a small business owner, less than 100 employees and not a branch or LLC of a major corporation, or a bank... You may make decent money, but you are not part of the problem, especially if you recognize that your own success is in some part due to the quality of work from your employees and you treat them like people. I was not criticizing you, I was complimenting your character. I'll try to communicate more clearly in the future. Best to you...
I see. I guess I did miss your point. Guess the grow up comment wasn't to you.
yes, overall consumerism is a huge problem for the country. Give me a room with some students and a notebook and I will create marketing gurus in 4 months. Just notebooks, thats all I need.
and what happens when they become the next walton family? Consumers are the problem yes, not the entrepreneurs
If the country would pull its head outta its ass, and stop spending every penny it makes, there would be less Walmarts. And if Clinton and Republicans didnt sign that shit, there would be even less.
I put just has much blame on the people has the corporations. This country was set up for us to govern ourselves, and we have fallen asleep behind the wheel for the last 30 years.
But we are waking up (is it too late?)
Didn't sign what ? I agree, we allowed our government to be overtaken by the 1%. We really cannot blame anyone but ourselves. I think that, while it sounds really perverse now that 1% buys control of our government, the political process was just so ingrained in our culture that we didn't really give it a second thought. And things were going along so well, we all thought that it must just work somehow, because things were going so well! We assumed it worked. Well, now its like the end of a 30 year experiment, and we finally figured out , it doesn't work! I think it must have began back with the Reagan tax reform. The wealthy suddenly had so much more money on their hands, didn't know what to do with it. So started using it to buy their representation in government. Just a theory.
So why is no one ripping on the consumer?
The consumer doesn't have the power to destroy the nations economy the way Wall Street does. They destroyed it with criminal greed.
what about the consumer's greed, taking out a mortgage they couldn't pay off, taking on college loans they couldn't pay off, opening a debit account with bank of america because its convenient, shopping at wal mart to save money on frozen pizzas
As far as consumers taking on loans they couldn't pay, I think being evicted is punishment enough. I think struggling to make mortgage payments on a home that is upside down is punishment enough. If you still want to "rip" on these consumers, I guess you can do that, but I think they are already paying for the consequences of their actions.
Student loans - I feel sorry for those people, they can't find jobs in an economy that was destroyed by Wall Street. They lack opportunities in this dismal job market. I bet they want nothing better than to get a job and pay off their loans. They are frustrated and dejected! I don't think they really want a handout. They want OPPORTUNITIES! To make it on their own.
I think we do all take advantage of some of the benefits that BIG corporations provide, like lower prices at WalMart. And we need to start asking ourselves, at what price? Exploiting workers in China? Doing business with banks that caused the one of the worst financial crisis in our history? Yes, we are all guilty, to a degree, of creating the environment in which we live. And now we reap what we have sown.
Personally, I feel that BIG corporations have gotten too big, where their cost to society has come to outweigh their "perceived" benefits to society and consumers. I don't know what the answer to this is. Perhaps stricter anti-trust laws. To help promote more competition, and reduce the BIG to just big. ??
Im not sure. Maybe because its an uneasy topic? Maybe because the last thing the powers that be want is to stop the spending.
We are addicted to drugs, pills, alchohol, tv, internet, new clothes, a bigger car, a bigger house, etc. We NEED external stimulation, because we cannot find joy in ourselves...
Maybe because it's easier to blame someone else for the problem (in this case, big corporations) than to take responsibility for our own actions (in this case, we the consumer and the borrower of personal debt).
here is a riddle...
everyone hates wal-mart > everyone wants wal-mart to go away > if people stopped shopping at wal mart, wal mart would go away ∴ people should stop shopping at wal mart...
why doesn't it happen? the consumer is greedy too
Exactly. Greed permeates our society from top to bottom. That's the problem. I'd rather spend an extra couple dollars on a small family-owned business than a huge corporation any day.